NEWSMAX

Yeah. What's happening with diffusion? Every time I have to be on a customer support line and I don't have speed and I'm not speaking to an effortless, you know, agent that has all the capabilities that I would expect that I know are available, I get a little bit angry at you and the other players in the space because like, why you move faster. It's like I just know, I know the technology is here. Why do I need to sit on another phone tree? And you know, like, that doesn't even do a good. Yeah, I just want to talk and I just feel like being able to effectively prompt to the outcome that you want is like so clearly here. And, and still it's like so many of these things. You're like, what's your, what's your address? What's your. This, you know, all this stuff, it's like, enough. We're trying, I'm trying our best. I mean, I can tell you like what is the long pole in the tent? It's roughly the, the analogy we like to give is us delivering an agent is a little bit like building a self driving car where the car is now smart, right? The models are really good. You guys have used the models. The brains of the car are good, so it knows how to drive. But when you arrive in one of these big, let's say airlines or banks or healthcare providers, the map of the surrounding area is not drawn out yet. And so drawing the map is usually the hard part. Someone has to make the jump between the car being good, but then actually drawing the map and figuring out where to go. So a lot of the time that we spend in these deployments is really making sure the map can be drawn out well and then improved upon over time. And our job hopefully is to shrink that time over more and more deployments and so that in the future, every single time you call, there will be a good AI agent there that can talk to you. Please. How do you think about, how do you assess opportunities internationally? I would love just like.

We won't want to keep Chase waiting. So let's bring in Chase Lockmiller from Crusoe as soon as possible. We gotta get the other side of the story. This dinner in Paris, we just heard about it from Max with Ligure. Was the wine as good as they say? The wine was flowing that night? That's great. A significant amount of wine. And I didn't see the prices, but I think they were, they were not cheap. Okay, stratospheric. What about the electricity? Is the electricity flowing? Are the chips flowing? How is progress in building out the compute capacity that people need? Yeah, the electrons are flowing and they're turning into tokens and helping accelerate this new era of AI abundance. Yeah, I mean, look, I think, you know, as, as demand for AI infrastructure has grown and demand for power has grown, you know, there's been a significant amount of investment in real world, you know, power production capabilities and facilities that are becoming, you know, real significant bottlenecks towards, towards this build out. Yeah. And so, you know, each incremental gigawatt is getting increasingly more challenging now. You know, the positive side is, you know, that I think a lot of the investments and the foresight that we had at Crusoe are, you know, paying dividends today. And if we look at, you know, all of the progress that's been made in, you know, the campus in Abilene, Texas, like, you know, our, our philosophy in sort of designing and building that campus was, you know, how do we build a gigawatt scale computer? How do we build a single facility that can act as one giant coherent cluster that can, that can train the next breakthrough foundational model that will lead to a step function improvement in the model capabilities. Yeah, that was like the, that was the North Star when we developed the campus and designed it. Today we're seeing the fruits of those labor. Yeah. And you had to go through what it was. There was like a six month period where it felt like there was a different article every single day about Star. If somebody sneezed in Abilene, there was somebody that was going to write an article they're never going to about how sneeze causes one second delay. One second delay. But it feels like you guys have gotten through that. And I haven't seen a front page article about some minute detail of the process in a while. No, but what I was going to say is the benefits of that is the first two buildings which were the initial contract that we did with Oracle and OpenAI have led to the training of Astra. I don't know if you've had a chance to play around with, but, you know, it's a really phenomenal model. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Jensen had some nice words about it too. Yeah. And the next, the next phases are coming online with, you know, buildings three to eight, which, you know, is going to basically quadruple the compute capacity. You know, three to six are already online and seven and eight will be coming online before year end and, you know, having, having that full 8 building compute capacity to train the next version, the next incremental improvement in the model. I think we'll see step function improvement and capabilities. You started the company in 2018.

And we have Max Junestrand from Lagora coming back to the show. How are you doing? Boom. Good to see you. Hey, John. Hey, Jody. We're great. How are you? Yes, it seems like you're great. Partnered with Salesforce but you didn't have to stand up and shake Marc Benioff's hand. He must really like. He must really like you. Yeah, he must really like you. I'm not one to get, you know, frameworked and most people go to Dreamforce to buy Salesforce. We went the other way around. We went there to sell the Salesforce. Okay, that's good. Yeah. What is the structure of the deal? What are you going to be helping. Helping with them with like, what did it take to get them across the finish line? The legal and the compliance team are embedding AI into every way they work. Right. They're big cloud customers, but cloud only gets you so far. We're helping them go all the way. And what's interesting with a lot of the SF based enterprises is most of them have tried many legal AI tools before and they haven't received the success that they wanted. And now they're moving over to Leguire. It feels like the models are, you know, you're constantly in the back and forth between the frontiers the best. Then open source CA matches up. The Frontier is the best. And then the companies that are building on top of models and building harnesses and building fine tuned models and specific workflows that's going to give you a big lift. And then somebody's like, oh, the next model will just one shot it. Have you lived through enough of these cycles now that I imagine you have a philosophy here. What's your philosophy? When I started the company back in 2023, it was very easy. It was one model, GPT 3.5 and we built every single functionality in Ligora as a boat. And when the tide rises, everything improves. Okay. And that continues to be the case. And what's interesting now compared to three years ago is that different models are good at different things. So if you break down legal work, there are so many skills you have to be good at. It's drafting, it's reviewing, it's fact checking, it's legal research. And so under the hood we, what we end up doing is we use all the models. The new meta models, the new Grok models, they're awesome. But we also continue to use the Frontier from Anthropic and OpenAI. And so what's interesting to us is where do you apply which model. And that's the IP that we have gotten really good at. And the reality is, when you operate a vertical AI company, you need to make sure that you are getting the benefit from all of the R and D dollars that are getting spent in the entire marketplace. Right. Yeah. And if you were to take a very opinionated view and say, let's fine tune a model to get, you know, 1% increase boost today, that entire asset is going to depreciate over time. And you're basically making your customers pay for a model that won't stand the test of time. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. How do you with the, the, the rising tide lifts the boats, you get the new capabilities. At the same time, there's probably.

Speaking of media, we gotta talk about Benioff at Dreamforce and specifically how he knows exactly what he's doing. Look at pulling up this picture. I mean, John has always been hyper aware of his incredible height. So much so he's such a nice person. He will turn down like a walking interview with somebody because he knows that he will make the other person feel incredibly small. And not everyone wants to feel like a little child. I did learn it the hard way once. I did a walk and talk documentary style video actually on the Gundo. And the comments were just, hype mog, hype mog, Crazy hype mog. And I was like, ah, that wasn't the intention, that was accidental. We were just kind of moving around quickly. Normally I would do a seated interview. I'm so sorry, I forgot that I'm six, eight. Yeah, basically. But after that I was like, okay, I need to be intentional. And I think anyone who has experience in media and understands framing and also production teams, production teams are incredibly thoughtful about the framing, the seats. There's even stories about certain tech CEOs getting like booster seats sometimes when they do interviews and adjusting the chairs and being like, okay, we're gonna give this person a higher chair and this person a lower chair so they're on even footing. And the lighting and the camera angles, all of these things matter. I used to have this joke that it's like if you ever walk into an interview and the camera's at a Dutch ang because it's a hit piece, because it's going to look very unsettling if all of a sudden the camera's like at a weird angle because that's going to unsettle the audience. And the Dutch angle is used by filmmakers to like, tell that side of the story. And there's a whole bunch of other ones. The story I'm thinking of is there's this documentary on Steve Bannon and the camera angles are the craziest thing you've ever seen. They have them up in the sky looking down and like. And there's all these obvious things that you learn in cinematography if you. If the camera's looking down on someone, it makes them look small, it makes them look weak. If it's looking up on them, it looks heroic and so lots of crazy. I genuinely can't believe that. I mean, Benioff is an absolute dog. I mean, look at this. No, just doing this to all the titans of the industry who have been making your life worse. In some ways they're partners, but they've also Been making your life worse by. Not directly, but just like he's view of The Nvidia anthropic OpenAI alliance has been deeply intertwined with SaaS Apocalypse, which has been a headache for him for a while. And this is. So this was his moment. I'm sticking around like you're not getting rid of me. We're going to partner and we're going to get through this together. And that's certainly the vibe that came away. Although Jensen played it very well, he was having fun with it. He was leaning into it and he didn't let it get to him at all. And he actually made it a very endearing moment. So sort of masterclass in putting on a show as a CEO in a somewhat silly scenario, but what a funny situation. It helps that he's what, six' five, 290? Absolute beast unit. Absolute unit. So it's, it is officially bulking season for Silicon Valley. I think we will see a lot of founders go out taking the trip, taking the trip to China, getting the leg extension surgery. You don't want to be in this situation. Yeah, I think we can see all the lab leaders easily over 6, 4 in the next year. Yeah, easily. Yeah. Everyone, it's just going to be a thing. Everyone is going to be height inflation basically. And then, and then you add to that the shoe inserts. Like those are probably fraud a little bit. Everyone's going to be frauding. And there's going to be a lot of vantage points going on as well, people stepping from one place to another. Yeah, I didn't see Jensen use any vantage points. He should have been using vantage points for sure. Which of course is where is where you step on. You know, we have, you know, if there's a little racetrack that covers up some cabling on the floor of the conference floor. You see the conference floor and you see, oh, someone put down their backpack. Why don't you just step up on that backpack for a second Pause there. You look a little bit taller. There's. There's all sorts of different ways to defraud if you're, if you're trying to. But yeah, also, I mean the camera angles matter. Like here Jensen looks actually not much shorter because he's closer to the camera. And so if the mark, the way they set this up made it makes it feel like it's like the United nations of the enterprise. Yeah. And it is odd because there's very few conferences where the CEOs just walk amongst the crowd like this. This is a very interesting directorial decision from the, from the production team. And it, and it has a very different aesthetic. It has a very familial aesthetic. It feels like, okay, yeah, these guys, yeah, they are in the companies. They're the big shots, but they're just here hanging out among us. And that's cool in its own way. It has a different, different vibe. Certainly better than the, than the Mark Zuckerberg walking through the crowd while every single person has a VR headset on. You remember that photo? That was a crazy one. But anyway, Jira tickets had a great meme on this. It's pov. You're the CEO of a trillion dollar company and just arrived at Dreamforce. And it's the pic from the Odyssey of Agamemnon looking up. Wow, what a crazy, what a crazy moment. Yeah, very, very fun. Anyway, we can go into more of what's going on in the news later in the show. Stay with us. But first, let me tell you about public. Com investing. For those who are.

Media. Post legacy media are folks who have gone through the legacy media and are now doing something else. And there's a new development in the post legacy world, the ecosystem and the business strategy. Sort of a neo post legacy media. Yes, exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking. And so there's a couple examples. One, Casey Newton and Kevin Roos have licensed their show to npr. So these are the hosts of Hard Fork, which was a New York Times property they left. And they, I believe they had to leave a Hard Fork brand behind. But of course, they took themselves who they have a big audience. Their audience will follow them. And they started a new podcast called Machine Gods, all about AI and technology, a lot of the same themes that they were talking about on Hard Fork, coming over to Machine Gods, but then immediately out of the gate, I don't even know if they posted a first episode yet. They licensed their show to npr. Deirdre Bosa left cnbc, started a show and licensed hers to Yahoo Finance. Joanna Stern is chiming in. She licensed her show to NBC News. And so you see, all of these people come from the traditional media world, the legacy media. They are post legacy media creators because they are no longer with the legacy media, but now they are neo post legacy media because they have gone back and they are doing licensing deals. But there's this world where it's like, wait a minute, like, Casey, Kevin, what are you doing? You were with the New York Times, now you're with npr. That's at best a lateral move. Why'd you even leave? This doesn't make any sense. But from a financial and economic picture, it's radically different because at the New York Times, you are paid as a journalist and they're like, do the podcast. That's how I imagine it works over there. Now they're probably like, yeah, you want to do a podcast? We'd love to support that. Pay for that. You have a salary, predictable raises that are ultimately somewhat capped. Whereas this, you can say, I'm going to license my show to you for two years. Yep. the end of that, you can get a RO for, but you're going to have to meet the best price in the market. And if the podcast blows up on YouTube and there's a whole bunch of sponsors that want to come in and give and buy YouTube ads, that money is probably going directly just to their team and their core group. It's probably not going through npr. NPR probably has. They're licensing the content and they might be running ads on top of the NPR distributed side so it's looking a lot more like Joe Rogan on Spotify, or like maybe there's some sort of. There's some sort of exclusive distribution or some other way to put for these actual legacy media companies. New York Times, Yahoo Finance, NBC News, npr, et cetera. They get more content which they can monetize or do whatever they want with. They get to fill up their content with these really hardworking independent creators who are now independent. And the creators get to maintain and have the flexibility of the economic upside of maintaining their IPs. She says this is the future of journalism. Own your work, build independently, distribute and partner with others. And I agree with her. I think that this is a big trend. We're going to be seeing a lot more neopost legacy media deals in the future. And I'm excited to talk to Joe Wiesenthal about it because I think he'll have a take here. My question is, what happens to Hard Fork? They already have new hosts. Wow. Yes. There's already. I believe there's already been another episode of Hard Fork. New hosts. Same topic, same set. So the Hard Fork IP has stayed with the New York Times. They plan on continuing. And the same thing happened with Ross Douthat. Interesting Times. Interesting Times. I definitely saw a new version of Interesting Times with a new host. So they brought in a new host. And I think that makes a lot of sense. You can almost think like these podcast properties are like, are sections of the newspaper. So it's like we have an opinion section, we have the mansion section, we have a business and finance section. And so we have the Hard Fork section of the New York Times podcasting empire. And we will always bring you technology stories that are hosted by a particular type of talent that fits there. Just like we might have someone who comes in and writes op eds and they go in the opinion section, someone who writes about real estate, and they go in the real estate section. Same thing where the person who's doing the Ross Douthat type of work will wind up be hosting for some limited amount of time. Interesting Times. So Interesting times indeed in the neo post legacy media world.

Same time. It's just too. Too much of a simulation. Is this Florida, presumably? Yeah, it has to be Miami. I mean, no better way to prove your residency than saying yes to jury duty and not trying to squirm out of it one way or another. You know, you're like, I'm part of this community. This is why I pay taxes here. And I didn't do jury duty in Seattle or Washington. Yeah. So Luke says I recently served on served jury duty with Jeff Bezos and had a conversation with him on afterwards on camera. And yes, that's Michael Saylor next to him in the jury hall. And if you scroll down, you can see this guy released, like the most YouTuber thumbnail ever. You see this Jordy, and it looks like this just feels so like, Mr. Beast. Like, I got advice from Jeff Bezos at jury duty, but it seems like it's maybe just luck of the draw. He happened to be there. Jeff Bezos was also there. Michael Saylor was also there. But feels like living in a simulation. Yeah, it's good to practice your YouTuber face in case you ever end up in jury duty with one of the world's richest people and you can turn it into a viral hit for sure. We gotta talk about post legacy media. There's an interesting trend going on. We've identified this early. Of course, we are neo trad media. We wear the clothes of the traditional media, but we didn't go through that pipeline to get here. We came through the tech community, through the business community, and then did media post legacy media. Are.

Yeah, for sure. Cash strapped Japanese monks have turned to investing as inflation worsens, Buddhist temples are squeezed by lower donations and higher costs. Let's check out what Bloomberg has to say. Turn to investing. What are they investing in? Kuyo Yoneta, 5th generation Buddhist priest in a small town in Hokkaido, was struggling to keep up with the maintenance needs of his century old temple. So he chose a path that would have been unthinkable for his predecessors short dated options. Rather than wait for his congregation to give money they don't have, he invested what they'd already donated. The move paid off within two years. His portfolio of U.S. treasuries, Japanese real estate investment trusts and stocks including BYD and Hyundai, return more than 10% annually, helping to cover part of the roughly 162,000 USD in needed repairs. The extra money even allowed him to expand the renovations beyond the original plan. Having previously worked in retail sales, Yoneda is an unusually finance savvy priest, but is also part of a growing wave of temple owners turning to financial markets to make ends meet. Costs for the upkeep of the ornate wooden buildings are soaring, while the country's Buddhist population has dropped about 14% in the last two decades as elderly adherents die and younger generations in larger cities lose their ties to religious practices. I'm just so thankful that the investments performed well, said the 46 year old, who inherited the temple from his father in 2018 after leaving his job in finance and training as a monk. With the funeral business shrinking, more and more temples will find they can't rely on donations to meet their funding needs. They will have to build up reserves and invest those funds. The shrinking number of followers is hitting temple's finances. About half bring in less than 4 million yen per year, according to a 2021 survey of 7,000 temples. The situation is particularly severe in rural areas where it is common for monks to oversee multiple temples while also working day jobs like school teachers or civil servants. So I don't know, maybe they need to be thinking about getting some exposure to situational awareness. Like I like that they're mixing in predictable things like real estate, treasuries, things like that. But maybe they need to be allocating 10% of their balance sheets to things that could maybe really start to do multiples, maybe using some leverage. Yeah, I like it. Did you hear that Jeff Bezos had to hit jury duty? This is crazy. I thought this was AI like in what.

This was sad. 26. Astra was playing Minecraft in a creeper. Blew up Astra's chest in bed. It got depressed. It gets depressed and farms potatoes for several hours. Real Irishman, I guess. Irish superintelligence. Yeah. The Minecraft bench is interesting because it is a little bit like the speed of response matters. You can't pause Minecraft at all. Right. I think in single player. Oh, you can. Okay. Because you can pause. Maybe then that might be a little bit easier. But a lot of the games that it's cracking are ones that you can wait forever, like Slay the spire. I had it beat this poker game, Balatro, but it could wait for a minute to click on a card and it did it. That's impressive. But the real high, high throughput, high APM games is going to be interesting. I want to see it win Dota 2 without any training on Dota 2. Just like straight shot from the base model. That'll be interesting. Yeah. We got a competitive lap time at Laguna Seca. Yeah, for sure. Cash strapped Japanese monks have turned to investing as inflation.

Bends. Oh, you know what? I think there's one of the reasons why AI politics are really confusing and scrambling is that, like, to even go bought, to even say, like, put up an anti AI bumper sticker on your market would force the. Would force the person to accept the premise that AI is a serious and important technology. Totally. And so part of the reason that I think that it scrambles the thing is, like, if you want me to be actively anti it, then I first have to accept the premise I'm legitimizing. Yep, yep, yep. And that is like, something that many people are reluctant to do for various reasons. And so there is this question Nate Silver asked. This is like, why don't you see a more like, sort of like left wing opposition to, like, AI and the pace of development? Sure, sure. There are many. I have many, think there are many answers to this. And I don't even know, like, there will never be. You know, people are complicated. But I think it first requires a certain step of legitimization that people don't want to do, which would be requ. To actually, like, care enough about a Irish to put a bumper sticker on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But with the power of AI, we'll be able to take a picture of that bumper sticker immediately, translate it into ironclad legislation. That's the. We could do it. Spell this out all the herebys that you need to have at the thing immediately. God, you know, it's funny, like such a classic political talking point. It's like they never even read the legislation that they voted on.

It is a huge open question about whether these marginal moves anything have any history of affecting corporate behavior. Can you reflect on Warsch and like how is he different? Not even in the strategy, we know the rates are going up but like esthetically the way he communicates the dynamic between him and other parties, like how does he feel? He's just at the start. But like what is his legacy building towards here? What's the. You know, I think there is this view, There is certainly a view that wars represents some sort of like very 90 degree turn from like the three predecessors he had or 180, I don't know Powell, Yellen and Bernanke in the specific sense. There were more. Well, Powell was a lawyer, but still more of like. But still like an internalized academic macro for sure. But the main thing that they had was like they communicated a lot and they brought. Starting under Bernanke there were a number of, I guess I would call them monetary policy innovations. The press conference. There's not a history of that before Bernanke there are so called dot plots where the members of the FOMC write down where they expect growth on. Bernanke got the press conference idea from basketball. I did probably from basketball. It was built upon. But I think there is like look, like most of the history of central banking probably looks much more like Warsh. They didn't used to talk so much. And so I am of this view that basically we could go. If you go back to the Greenspan era, the famous word to describe his style of communication was Nomic. He didn't say many words or if he did say a lot of words, no one understood what he was talking about. There is a long tradition of, of essentially like opacity in one way or another at the Fed. Sure. And so like if like I to some extent like you know, people like oh, so we're getting like oh, these the dots do not have some long intellectual tradition at the Fed. If they completely got rid of the dots, if they completely got rid of regular press conferences, which my gut is that Warsh would like to do because he doesn't really say anything at most of his press conferences, we would not be ripping up some hundreds of years of like. No, we were ripping a precedence since 2008, some of the. Or 2009 and some of this stuff made a lot of sense coming out of the great financial crisis was a Fed crisis like crisis for them and they were instrument. Look, they had a very specific challenge which was that inflation was very low. They had cut Rates to zero. If you had plugged the economic conditions of the Taylor rule into some sort of like rule, it would have said like you have to cut rates to negative 5. Yeah, they can't do that. I think a lot of things break when you have negative interest rates. So then they're like, well, how can we be further dovish once we hit the zero lower bound and say, okay, we're going to do this by talking more about our commitment to lowering rates and so forth. So a lot of these things made a certain intuitive sense under a set of macro conditions in which the traditional tools of monetary policy were not workable because you just couldn't cut rates any further. It's 2026 now. It's a very different set of problems, et cetera. So if you would say, look, under these conditions, we do not have the same problems that we had when these things made a lot of sense that we should get rid of them. I think there are a lot of people who would agree. The one thing I will say that I like the head scratcher still is that like on some level he used in his first or second press conference, worse, used this phrase, we would like to play, we would like to have market participants play the ball and not the referee. The referee being the Fed. And that sounds great. We love that idea. Play the ball, not the referee, unfortunately. And where I would say like in the sort of government bond market, the Fed is the ball, right? We're all trying to guess where this. Right? So it's like, yeah, let's talk, let's talk for a second. Let's imagine a two year government bond, right? That two year government bond is going to the correct pricing of that bond is going to be like where the Fed sets rates over the next two years, right? It is. Okay, is there some sort of steel man here where like the. You should be more focused on the fiscal condition of the US Government. We would love for that to be the case, but at the. We would love for that to be. Sure, yes. But the thing is the Fed is going to be making decisions. There's 12 members of the FOMC, 12 voting members of the FOMC and they are going to be attempting to meet their dual mandate of maximum unemployment and stable prices and things that they will take into account, well, what is government spending look like right now? What is trade and tariffs, what does that mean for the inflation picture, etc. What does AI mean for the state of the employment position, et cetera. But at the end of the day then it's like you are once you are a participant in that market, what you are betting on is strictly and only how those 12 members of the FOMC are going to be digesting that information. You know, when we occasionally have arguments or debates about prediction markets, I like to point out that the US Government bond market is not figuratively or metaphorically a prediction market. It is literally a prediction market in the specific sense that you are making bets on how 12 voters just isn't an it's an election of and there are only 12 voters of what they will do at the next meeting or the subsequent meetings. So it is literally a prediction market of how you expect 12 people to vote eight times a year. And that's not that's that is all. I believe that a government, at least in the US That a government bond market could ever be fed, currently needs to the dual mandate is minimize.

We have practical solutions, economists willing. It's also, it's also the another way to think about it. You could tell somebody like an asteroid is going to hit the Earth in 2050 and people would still go to work tomorrow. That's totally so like, but if you like really like, if you're like sitting there and you have like these really deep intuitions and you've been reading like Bostrom for 20 years, what are you concerned about? You're concerned about the X risk. How do you get people to just first of all take the idea that AI risk is a big deal or AI is real or AI is real. Let's start with the job loss conversation. It feels tractable. It feels theoretically solvable. We need ubi. And so my cynical take was that the only reason or the primary reason they talked so much about the job law stuff is because it was a way in to warn people about AI that didn't make them sound like sci fi. But that feels like that backfired because when sitting here and there hasn't been massive AI job loss. And so yeah, that's true. It's easy for people to be like, these are the people that were telling us that there was going to be 25% unemployment and that hasn't happened. So they're saying 10% chance. I'm betting against McDonald. Yeah, there's this weird thing going on. I certainly think this is true. Which is, I don't know, do you see these people as like top ranked AI forecaster? Right. Or like capabilities forecaster? And many of them do have like pretty good track record except on the question of what will be the impact of this. Exactly. They're all internal. They're all internal. It's like, yes, I was able to predict model progress by the amount of compute that was built. And also, wow. He also predicted the number of chips that were going to be bought, also predicted the number of data centers that were going to be built. And it's like those are all downstream of the exact same line. You're extrapolating things that are directly correlated except the one thing that no one has had any good intuitions on. I was like, when are we just going to feel this in our day to day life? And it's pretty weird now that the conversation has evolved to like the X risk conversation because it's like you step outside, it's like life feels really normal. Totally. You know, I was like talking last night, we were like talking to like say we were at this conference of like financial advisors, et cetera. And it's like there's this surreal thing because I like when I stare at my phone, it's, you know. Well, a lot of those financial advisors, they talk about AGI all the time. Adjust adjusted gross income. Adjusted gross income. That's what I focused on. But, you know, it's like, well, I can help you. Like, this AI tool helps your clients with tax loss harvesting, et cetera, which is great. I love tax loss harvesting. But it's like, wow, this could not be a more different tax laws. Tax laws harvesting.

Only bright. Only bright points, to be honest. No, I know. It's like. It's like you're negging your own city like that. Oh. I mean, the city is. The city's a disaster. I mean, it's. They didn't even hold on to a movie studio. But then you get this. But then someone gets to take this. Yeah. The bright spot is like, the individual creators are doing well. There's cool stuff in industrials and space. Yeah. But the whole long LA movement, like fizzled out right before you got this sort of. I'm super long la. Really? Absolutely. You know, I was just talking. No, I was just talking. He just gets. It's the weather and what's there to be. What's there to be optimistic about? Look, the thing that will. Will never cease to mystify me. Right. So Americans, over time, they migrated westward, etc. And no offense to them, I'm sure they're lovely people. I'm like, wait, you guys stopped in Nebraska and you could have like gone on your wagon for like another, you know, 72 hours. It was right there. Or. And it's like, what? And I like, in my, like, in my. Trying to backfill American history, I was like, how did we all not just come to LA right away? And I do not believe, regardless of what happens with Hollywood, that there will ever be a time where people just do not want to live in this climate by the beach. It is crazy. And they'll find an industry for them. Yeah, it is crazy that kids. California. I mean, we got three coastal cities. San Francisco, Louisiana. San Diego. But it's always shocked me that if you drive completely ignoring every other. No, no. If you drive halfway between LA and San Francisco, there is not a metropolis with an international airport there. Like, you go below, like Marin or Laguna Seco. That's the only place. Monterey. Yeah, you go below Monterey and then you get into beautiful areas, but it's mostly camping. And there was never like forced, you know, metropolis that built. No, it's kind of strange. You know, a couple years ago, a good friend and I decided to. We had just like never been driven the Pacific Coast Highway. Yeah. So we're like, let's drive from San Francisco down to. What's the place down there where they have. The town where they have Coachella, Palm Springs. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, and we did and it was beautiful. Wait, you hit Coachella or you just hit the. No, no, no. It was just. I just went to town and it was a beautiful drive. But at some point, I have to admit it's very beautiful, I have to admit. It's like, oh, there is another beautiful cove. Yeah. And so I was like, I'm getting a little more of this. Oh, there's another beautiful code. It also takes so much longer than driving. So then. Then we had the thought it was somewhere right around where the Hearst mansion is. We're like, why don't we drive inward? Because no one sees, like. So then we, like, went through, like, Fresno, a lot of farmland and, like, miles and miles of almond farms. I loved it. So now I'm actually like, yes, there should be another ranches. Yeah. So it's like, of course, yes, there should be another megalopolis somewhere, like on the coast. But also I think that, like, if someone visiting LA at one point, you should do the inward drive and see where they make all the elements, because it's amazing country out there. That's how it used to get back and forth from LA to San Francisco. LA is in a bad spot. LA is in a bad, bad spot. You know, I know I'm generally the point of optimism is the weather. That's been the durable point. But the weather can get a town through some bad eras. Right. Because sure, if everything is actually headed the wrong direction, but the weather's simply so good that when you. It'll be fine. It'll get you through. I'm very bullish. I'm like, it's Move here. Yeah. I mean, like, look, like when. Like when Detroit got hollowed out after, like, the shrinking of the auto industry there, et cetera, it's like, what was keeping. You know, they didn't have the weather. Oh, true. You know, and so, like, you guys have the weather. It'll be fine. Wait a couple years. It'll be fine. Yeah, it's. It'll be fine. Yeah. I'm waiting for the. I'm waiting for whatever industry can bring great opportunity to LA again, which it just doesn't feel like. Like, I moved here after college and I thought it was great because it was much more affordable than New York. I'd have friends visit from New York and they'd be like, you.

It. Let's play it. We got a clip from the Social Reckoning starring Jeremy Allen White. And again, this is a story that no one cares about anymore, but let's check it out. I'm not gonna risk my job, my future or my freedom anymore to help a reporter who, let's face it, is biased against tech because we're taking journalism jobs. Who does this? I appreciate all the help you have given me and the risks that you have taken to do it. You were absolved for the record. My bias isn't because tech is taking journalism jobs. It's because you are doing them so badly. That's a big deal. Have a safe light back, Francis. I'm not gonna risk my job. I do like Jeremy Allen White. Have you seen the Bear? No. It's a good show. No, I'm sure the movie's great. I think we're really into this. It's just coming at a time when people are deeply interested in what's happening in tech, but not have moved on from this story to such a degree. Yeah, but I think people are still thinking about, like, I'm much more interested in seeing this kind of story on like phone addiction and stuff like that. This is that story loosely. It is. And I actually think this is. Yes, yes. This doesn't confront any of the discussion of what's going on in AI and that's probably the more relevant story. But I do think that you can go into this movie, you can be motivated to go see this movie because you're like, I'm worried about what's going on with brain rot and slop online and political divisiveness and divisions and all of the stuff. And even if I'm on Instagram all the time, even if I'm posting on Instagram all the time about how Instagram is bad, I'm motivated to know more about how bad is it? Why is it bad? What's the inner workings of this bad thing that I don't like? And so I do think this is a brain rot movie. This is a kids on the phones addiction movie. I think this scratches that itch a little bit for many people. Even though it is like a much more narrow. A narrow story, but certainly cinematic. It'll be fun. What is this picture? That is after Evan Spiegel who, quote, tweeted atlas, we came, we pinched, we mopped. I love Atlas.

Okay, you can pre order them. Okay, pre order them. So Paramount is leaving Los Angeles. Paramount is actively seeking office space in Nashville, a sign it's seriously considering moving at least some of its operations from la. Amid the antitrust fight over its proposed acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery. The company is seeking roughly 400,000 square feet in the Tennessee capital that it could occupy within two to three years. So we were doing, Tyler and I were doing some digging on what the plan is for the Paramount lot now that it will be vacant. And the obvious, it's just like a no brainer, turn it into a data center. Right. So I pulled it up. You got 29 sound stages. They're already big buildings. A lot of power, actually not as much power as you think. There is a decent amount of power, but there's only enough power for roughly a couple thousand GPUs. You're not going to be racking 50,000 GPUs anytime soon. Certainly not 100,000 GPUs. There is a road to power. It's a utility interconnection problem, not a real estate problem. There's plenty of square footage, plenty of buildings. But you would need to connect Paramount to the more serious LADWP transmission infrastructure. But you could get it to 100 megawatts. And I think everyone, everyone in Hollywood would be like, fine, okay, we didn't like that they left, but at least we got a data center. Well, I mean, we were also thinking about like on site power generation. Maybe there's some kind of like, you know, natural gas play here. You can, that's under la can kind of tap into. Yeah, I think that could work. We were thinking, you know, the La Brea Tar Pits, you might be able to convert that into fossil fuel. You're full of ideas today. Do you think Paramount will actually leave or do you think LA will fight back and say, hey, okay, we're gonna let you do this, but we want you to stay. I think it's a com. I mean, as somebody with very, very little knowledge of the situation and certainly no insider knowledge, I would assume that they want a Nashville HQ anyways, just because there's a lot of momentum share, as you know, just in the region, but it also, in the meantime serves as a real bluff. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It does seem like there's a world where like moving would be tough, but staying means maybe even if you win this battle, you're still at war and you're still going to be fighting a bunch of different fights constantly. Whereas if you just rip the band aid off. Move. Then you're in a friendly town that wants to see the growth and is going to be supportive continuously. The social reckoning is in here. There's an exclusive clip. Is this a Paramount film? We got to figure out who's behind all this. I don't know. Let's play it. Let's play it.

Continue to do it, because when applied correctly, it's a chef's kiss. Anyway, Snap officially launched specs yesterday. Some of the team members here got to go check it out in person. I get there, I'm like, this is perfect. It's 3pm Atlas Creatine Cycle's in town. I want to meet up with him. I'm like, great, you're going to this thing. I have an invite to this thing. I'll see you there. We'll catch up there. Super convenient for both of us. I got a 30 minute call beforehand. It ends right before the thing starts. That runs to 50 minutes. So I'm 20 minutes late. Get my badge, walk in immediately, get a phone call. Hey, they called me. I had another call. You gotta hop on early. So I leave and then I have another 90 minute call. So I truly miss the entire thing. But I did get to go inside, have one glass of water, talk to one person. Harper Carroll, former guest of the show now out in Austin reporting on AI and that was electric. But then I didn't actually get to see the presentation or do the demos. So it was basically a quick turnaround for me. And I was like, why did I think I could pull this off? I failed. But did the launch fail? We'll see. We'll talk to the folks who actually went, Tyler, Nick, we're not asking for a full review. I just want to take us through the day. I saw you guys pull up and you guys didn't see me. I was on the street, on the call. You guys get waved around. You valet walk me through your journey into the launch. Like, you go in, you have cocktails. What happened? Yeah, have a drink, go in. What are they serving? Screaming Eagle or seltzer water. Some kind of cocktail. Do they have the original four Loco? Were they serving the original four Loko? I wish. Yeah. Yeah. Multiple pints of Guinness. Did they have natural light available? You could totally see Evan cracking out. The. Cracking open the secret supply of original four Lokos. You know, that guy has, you know, he has a bunky with the original four Lokos. Yeah. So everyone's having some drinks. Then you sit down. Yeah. Chopping it up. Then you go into the amphitheater, and it's sort of like Steve Jobs iPhone launch vibes, right? Yep. You know, he's standing in front of this big screen. There's like beautiful images behind him. Walks out. Black shirt, check. Okay. Yeah. Then he starts doing live demos. He did lean into the memes. Right. I saw on screen a picture that had clearly Been Photoshopped or AI to make the specs look even bigger. So he was aware that people thought they were chunky, that they were large. So he gives his demo. What's his pitch? Yeah, so there's, like, a number of ways to. He kind of talked about it. One is, like, basically, like, potential. Position it against, like, being on your phone a lot. You want to stay very present. Right. You don't be looking down at the screens all the time. You want to be. You want to look through the screen. Yes. Right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Close to your face. Yeah. And I've heard that pitched a few times. Do you believe that? Do you think that if you go, no phone, but constant visual overlay in your visual field, you will actually be like. Yeah, I'm more in touch with reality. It worked. Yeah. I've never understood that part of the pitch. I've actually been. We know you're addicted to your phone, so here's another product that will actually always be attached to your face. Yeah. They're gonna spin as helping you kind of. Yeah. Reconnect with reality. It's an odd. It's an odd pitch. It really doesn't work on me because I like the barbell strategy of, like, brain rot and stimulation, where I am actually fine to be, like, give me the fully virtual world. I. I want to be locked in. I want the screen as big as possible. I want to be in World War II. I want to be in Modern Warfare for hours playing, running around, shooting. I want it to be all the audio. I don't want to hear anything else. I want noise cancellation. I want to be in that world, and then I want to be able to unplug and then just go into the actual world and sit down and have a chat with you and have a coffee and not be checking our phones and actually be fully present when I'm fully present in the real world. And then I want to be fully in the virtual world. So, like, I want the VR, the fully, like, you know, immersive thing, and then zero immersion. I'm actually not looking for more things that are in the middle, and I'm wondering if people will. If that will resonate with people. I think that's mostly because you haven't seen, like, very good examples. And, like, right now, the glasses are still, like, kind of big, and if they're very minimal and, like, kind of, you know, they would show very small. They're the boys. People online were thinking that the guy in the center was Clapp. Yeah. It's actually Tyler it's actually Tyler and Nick and Atlas. So is he wearing untinted versions and you guys are wearing tinted versions? Yes. Or are they. Or can you say, like, I want tinting on right now. So I think you can, like, increase the tinting, but there's also just. There's two SKUs. Yeah, I believe so. Okay. Okay. Yeah, so you gotta get both, I guess. Anyway, when did you actually get to the Dan says John, raising a second family in VR, Trying to keep them separate. Yes. The COD lobby is my second family for sure. So he gives a pitch. Yeah. Does a bunch of live demos. And are the demos consumer focused? Enterprise focused Prosumer. Yeah. So the live demos he did were all very consumer. Consumer. He showed, like, live shopping and you could, like. He was going to look for an espresso machine. Then he pulls it and, like, puts it on a table in front of them so you can see how big it is and stuff like that. Any live demo failures? Any WI FI issues? There was kind of one where he tried to pull up a YouTube video. Okay. And then so he said like, hey, Specs. So he's talking to a voice assistant. Yeah, he said, like, yeah, pull up a video about. About specs. Yeah. And then it opens the. The, like, browser view goes to YouTube and then he, like, tries to click on a video to open it and it, like, doesn't really work. Oh, okay. But it eventually worked. It seemed like it worked. It was like a small hiccup. It wasn't like a big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't a demo fail. Yeah, makes sense. Okay, so then there was a very cool live demo of someone. There was like kind of an interactive music creator tool where you could, like, move around and it would play different sounds. And so she did this very cool live demo. So she was creating a song, but instead of using traditional instruments, like, the instruments were puppeteered by her movements in the physical world. Got it. Okay, cool. So was there any enterprise pitch? There was. There were no live demos of that, but there were some videos played. Like, one was. It's like imagine you're an electrician and you're basically looking at this big, like, server box and you don't know where to, you know, plug in the wire and it would, like, highlight which plug you put it into. Yeah. Which I think is, like, could be interesting. Yeah, that feels like something that sounds good, but I have no actual real experience there to, like, say, like. Yeah, that's what. That's what will solve the bottleneck in electrician. Yeah, but like, you know, interactive instructions. That's kind of a cool idea, right? You're building IKEA furniture or something and it like tells you what to do. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, I can see that being. Yeah. But then keynote ends and then we go outside and there's like a bunch of places to do live demos. So. Yeah, the first one we did is where you basically put on the glasses and you do some kind of like calibration thing. You like, figure out how the motion works. There's no like little kind of secondary, like, I think on the meta quest displays, there's like that little wristband. There's nothing like that. Nothing like that. It just was hand tracking. Yeah, it's just kind of like. It's similar to like the Apple Vision Pro interactions. And then. Yeah, the one I really liked was it was like ping pong. So you're like, your hand is the paddle and you're playing ping pong. I think there's actually a video of it. Yeah, yeah, they played it. So the ping pong thing, do a little tier list for me of ways to do ping pong. We'll start with the real ping pong. Where's that? F tier, D tier, C tier, B tier, A tier, obviously S tier. I think it's S tier. S tier. Okay, well, what am I comparing it to? Other Full VR. Full VR ping pong, which is. Would you rather play ping pong in VR or real life? Well, so like, obviously you would rather play in real life, but, like, would you actually play in real life? So if my friend lives 100 miles away, I'm not going to be able to play ping pong, but I can play in VR. Right. So I think that boosts it. Right. So it's also S tier. What about. I think it's like B. Because in the augmented reality, do you need ping pong table? No. No. Okay. So it creates. I was virtual. Yeah, we can see. But I'm okay waving my hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is future right here. Yeah. And then this was. I can talk about why, but this is probably more like C tier. It's definitely worse than VR. I think one of. One of the reasons is because there's no actual controller. So the. Oh, you don't have the waiter. Yeah, it's a little bit. Oh, that's interesting. The tracking is worse. Even though you don't have a controller normally it's like, get rid of the controller. That's just extra weight, batteries, equipment. I think for gaming, the controller actually works because really Precise. But typically these systems allow like third party peripherals. So you can like whip up a, you know, you can like wire up an Xbox controller, like what Oculus did, where they just. Or Meta Quest where they just use the Xbox controller for those types of games. Yeah. I do think, like this was my, the coolest demo I did and this is something that like there's, I mean really like no reason why this needs to be an ar. This can just be completely VR. Yeah. Because like I'm, I'm looking at the ball, I'm not looking at like people in front of me. And it's actually kind of distracting because someone would walk in front of me and I think I'm about to hit them. Oh, sure. Because I can see them. So it's maybe better to just occlude the world or do some pass through stuff. Yeah. I'm still oddly bearish on augmented reality and more bullish on virtual reality where you're not recycling photons, where instead you just have cameras on the outside that then reproject that on the inside of the headset so that you can get a wider field of view. And then if you're in a bright scene, you can still overlay things, you can darken things. But in augmented reality, I don't believe it's physically possible if you look at a bright light to put a dark object in front of it. Because the only thing that these glasses can do is add light to the scene. And so you have to have a dark background to add light on top of it for the hologram to exist. I found it was bright enough. I could clearly see everything. That is pretty impressive. Yeah. It was outside. It was outside. It was a bright day in la. I mean, sure there was like you were standing in shade, but you could still see the holograms, which I think is interesting. Yeah. I didn't try watching any like movies or anything. Yeah. Which I think would definitely be better in VR. You should have been like, you're going to let me demo this. Can I just do one, Can I just do one demo real quick? Snap. Lawrence of Arabia. Lawrence Arabia. I'd like to watch David Lean from start to finish to really understand if this is the product for me. See him in three hours. To me, it's so interesting how high the bar is in this category. Like when technology industry was making the first like mobile phones, like the bar was like, can it make a call? Can you receive a call? Can you do that semi reliably? Even if there's services spotty because you were competing against the payphone. Yeah. You had to, like, stop and find. Every new device competes with the smartphone. And I just think, like, the meta Ray Ban displays, I haven't seen any of them out in the real world. It seems like those are not doing well. I think that. I think this whole category is still going to be quite challenged. Yeah. I mean, even just the basic meta Ray Bans, they compete with a smartphone, but they also compete with AirPods. And, like, the Apple ecosystem is, like, remarkably robust in terms of, like, the meta Ray bans. Users that I know that, like, the product are like, well, I like them, but I often just, like, take phone calls on them. I listen to music on them when I'm going for a walk, and then occasionally I'll take a picture and it's like, that's saving you five seconds to get a worse quality photo than if you have a nice phone and your headphones. I guess it's a little bit less intrusive to have the speakers up here as opposed to, like, in your ears. It looks a little bit normal. If you walk up to someone, you pause your. You pause your music, you walk in, you order a coffee, people are like, oh, he didn't even take out his headphones while he's talking to me. Kind of antisocial. As opposed to, like, oh, he still has his glasses on, but they're not playing audio. So I don't have a weird reaction to it. So there's a little bit of benefit. But, yes, it's very, very incremental. It's not. It's very rare that these things unlock entirely new capabilities. Is there any content ecosystem that you think that they can plug into? Like, the killer app on Apple Vision Pro, in my experience, has been the Apple TV app. Like, it's like, they already have a library of every movie and 3D movies and IMAX movies, and so there are great movies that you can watch in that thing. And with the, like, it's like, what was the last Oculus or Meta Quest, you know, partnership? It was like the Xbox Edition. Why is that important? It's because, like, they want you to fire it up and install Xbox and be streaming Xbox games. So you get the Xbox library on that device on day one. And. And. And the fact that you. It's a meta product. Yes, you could scroll Instagram reels in there, but that's clearly not the killer library that they need to bring to bear. They need to bring games. So they've partnered with Xbox for 2D games, not VR games even. But it's like at least you could go and play a lot of, you know, BioShock or whatever is on there. And is there any glimmer of where the big content pool might come from once you've played enough ping pong? Yeah, I really don't know because movies and games are just, I think, always going to be better on VR. Yep. And then like there's not like an existing library of like AR experiences. Yeah. Because like the only thing I can think of is like actual Snapchat lenses. Right. That's like AR library. Yes. But like, you know, what are you going to do with that? So I think like they're going to laugh when everyone you meet looks like a hot dog or something, like a cat. Everyone has dog ears. Dog ears? Yeah. The dog filter. Yeah, on everyone IRL. That's wild. Let me tell you about CrowdStrike. Your business is AI. Their business is carrying it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches. So next week we might get a competitor to this next week is Meta Connect, I believe. And they're on a track like Reality Labs. Obviously all the energy is around AI, but the team is still working on devices augmenting reality. They did the Meta Ray Ban displays, which is the Call of Duty style mini map. It doesn't take over the full cone of vision, but two years ago, Mark Zuckerberg demoed a product at meta connect. Two years ago, 2024 of the. What he called Orion, which was very complicated name if you know the history of the hunter Orion, who tried to kill all the animals and was sacrificed for it, as a tale of hubris. But anyway, hopefully this doesn't go like the Orion story because every time, every time meta names something it has like this, like accidental. I mean, it happened to OpenAI too. The big GPT, the big pre train that was supposed to be like GPT5 was called Orion at one point, I think. And so like never name your product after a hubristic Greek tale. Anyway, the Meta Ray Ban displays launch next year and it felt like this year is the year that you get the Meta Ray Ban full displays. And so that Orion product should be here, it should be a direct competitor to Specs and it would time up and it would actually make sense that, you know, the Snap team sees that, okay, they're going to release this on this day. We got to get out early. We got to be a week before. And so I would expect that next week we get a direct competitor to Specs, meaning Meta Ray Ban form Factor, probably a little bit thinner, a little bit smaller, a little bit lighter. Meta has more resources for this. They've been working on it longer. And it should be augmented reality that can take over the, you know, a fairly wide field of view. I imagine that that's going to be a big comparison table, not just price. It'll probably be expensive. I mean, the Meta Ray Bans a couple hundred bucks. Meta Ray ban display is 800 bucks, something like that. And I would expect that the full display to be like maybe 500k, probably 1500 bucks or something, but still cheaper than what SPACS is, which is 2200, something like that. But the real question is, will they launch the Quest 4? Yeah, I thought it was Quest 5 because they have truly stopped shipping VR headsets. Can you give us the history of the launches of the Meta Quest VR headsets? Because the Quest 1 launched in 2020. 20. 19. 2019. Quest 2 is 2020. To be clear, if you were wearing smart glasses, you could stop the conversation and just ask the question true for a response and just read it off and then read it back to us. Or you could just ask, do what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So quest two is 2020. Quest pro is 2022. Quest three is 2023. Quest 3s is 2024. That's the most recent. And then the Xbox edition was like a light turn. That's what we did on the show last year. But no truly new hardware in 2025 or 2026. And now it's expected 2027. It would be such a wild card. If all of a sudden Mark Zuckerberg was like, I did it. Great VR. I've solved it. You counted me out. And here's the gift of the Apple Vision Pro. Yeah, truly, no one cares about VR. And it makes me think that the truly incredible. Eventually we'll get the breakthrough smart glasses. Eventually we'll get the breakthrough VR product. But I have a feeling that the adoption curve is going to just be slow because the entire world is like, I just don't care anymore. Totally. I truly. Show me whatever demo you want. I do not care. I'm not going to try it. I'm not going to buy it. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't matter to my life. And it's interesting because it's so different than language models which, like GPTs, GPT, you know, generative text models have existed and the GPT3 API came out in 2020, and you could, you know, actually go and try and interact with it. But it didn't have like a national marketing campaign around it. Yeah, it truly was like in the long smart glasses are like the most insane marketing dollars for years. So long. Yeah, for years. And so there's been so many like little pop up VR experiences, integrations at theme parks. Like it's been said, oh, it's the next big thing. It's been on the COVID of Time magazine. Like there's been a lot of attention before getting to product market fit. Whereas LLMs were like truly in the research lab for like a decade. And then once it was actually good enough, it just came out and immediately went viral and everyone was on chatgpt.com and then it was just like boom. Now it's like a thing. And then it was off to the races. Interesting. But I don't know. Yeah, it feels like with every demo it feels like we're once each of these devices is 10 times better. There might be a market, but I actually am not even confident that the end market is really gonna be quite as exciting as the excitement that you've had from Zuck and Evan and all these people. I just think it's this sci fi idea in people's brains and I think there's potentially other routes to get to that sort of ambient computing. Just sort of this always available personal assistant that aren't on your face. But I mean Valve is working on new VR headsets still. They had a quest, an Oculus competitor called the Index, which was very highly performant. We should pull up some images of the new Steam frame. So Valve, the very secretive private company controlled by Gabe Newell, is launching a Steam machine which is a desktop box, a Steam controller, and then also a Steam frame which is a VR headset. It can do some stuff directly on the headset, but it performs best when all the rendering is happening on a gaming PC. So it's designed to be used in concert with a gaming PC. So it's still they are leaning into like this is a gaming peripheral. This is for somebody that has a gaming PC. They're in the Steam ecosystem and we want to give them a great experience. So all the rendering happens on the, on the computer and then it just streams to you. Look how happy that guy. That is a very funny promotional photo. Look out. Go to the next one. Look how happy he looks with the goatee is really like this is the gamer. The gamer goatee is great. Have you ever rocked a goatee? Never. Not once. Tomorrow. There was a Handelmar mustache phase amongst the crew when we were in early 20s. But I don't know if I fully participated. Yeah. Which one? That's the index, right? That's an older one. I think we need to send VR to Dagestan a few years and forget. You just want to get it out of here. Send to Dagestan for a few years and forget. The really interesting thing is that Palmer Luckey revealed that Apple had done all this work to pull forward the display technology so that the Apple Vision Pro had really high resolution and it still has the highest resolution, like the best screen of any VR headset, really. Steam Frame two years later is still using the same pixel density as the Meta Quest 3s or something like that. So, like, even though we've had two years of progress on everything, the actual display fidelity hasn't gotten there leads me to believe that these people just don't think it matters because Apple solved that and it still wasn't enough. But I still feel like if you get it, ultra lightweight, really good integration with key media partners like Xbox and Apple TV movies, and you have a great display that's super light because people just didn't like the heaviness and the expense of the Apple Vision Pro. There's something there, but no one, really. No. I'm the only one that thinks that. Let me tell you about Figma agents. Meet the canvas. Your AI agents can now create and modify your Figma files with design system context. Tyler, did you see Shaquille o' Neal at the specs launch? I did not. Why? Jimmy Butler was there. He's pretty big. Why didn't they hire Shaquille o' Neal to promote the specs? Because if you have a big product, if you put it on a really, really big guy, it's going to look relatively smaller. Right. You don't want your, your, your models in the footage or your partners. Well, they could have done a collab with LeBron. LeBron's the new face of Polymark. To have LeBron in like this sort of like Iron man style video where he's placing thousands of bets at the same time. There you go. Betting on himself. Lupin, Nike, maybe. Always. It's the Nike specs. Poly Market collab. Bet on. Bet on yourself. Bet on your face. Is this a picture of Gurman here wearing them? This is, yeah. Tried out the glasses. Gurman called the display pretty sleek. He highlights that. Unlike other glassware devices, they call them glassware, like silverware. There is no tethered puck or dangling battery to operate the glasses. I saw some people wearing them walking into the event. And I didn't do as much of a double take as I think people would think, given the. Like, they're big. Like, they're not that big. I think they did a pretty good job miniaturizing it as much as they could. But $2,200 for the device and 2,400 for an option that doesn't require WI fi. That's a lot of. That's a lot of money for a pretty early stage product anyway. And I looked. I don't think you can actually just order them yet. Oh, no, not yet. Well, in other news, let me tell you about Cisco Critical Infrastructure.