NEWSMAX

Hats. Jackson, can you grab mine? Yeah. We got to get some cowboy hats. Get as many as we need. Maybe get John the bear mask over there. That bear mask. We love that you're in J and J as well. We always. We were. Our slack is at jj. You guys. John. Well, tell us about the company. Tell us about the round. I want to hit the gong. Tell us what's going on. Sweet. Yeah. So we're John and Jeff, co CEOs of a sort. Health. We are an agentic platform for the entire patient journey for provider groups. So healthcare providers, we do everything from work, call center automation, voice AI to handling facts and document processing, patient intake forms, care gap activation and payment collection. We have a bunch more questions, but tell us how much you raised. We got to hit the gong together. Double gong for you go first. No, together. Together. Together. Tell us how much you raised. $222 million total. We're super excited about that. That's a sick off. Thank you. Wait, when did you guys start the company? 2023. 2023. All right. Not bad. Just a couple hundred million of value creation annually. I like it. Yeah. Take us through the actual the customer journey. Who's buying? How do you interface with both the doctors, the patients, the hospital networks and the insurers? Like healthcare is like famously a seven party negotiation for everything. But who do you actually sell to and how do you flow through? Yeah, I'll let Jeff answer that. Yeah. In terms of how we actually approach these provider groups, I think when we first started the business, there's actually education.

Success as well. This is a great podcast. Really, really appreciate it. Thanks Wayne. Have a good one. Let me tell you about Railway. Railway is the all in one intelligent cloud provider. Use your favorite agency, deploy web apps, servers, databases and more. While Railway automatically takes care of scaling, monitoring and security. Our next guests are from Assort Health. We have the co founders and co CEOs. Co CEO alert. How you guys doing? Welcome to the show. Hey, introduce yourself for everyone. Love the cowboy hats. Jackson, can you grab mine? Yeah. We got to get some cowboys. Get as many as we need. Maybe get John the bear mask. The bear mask. We love that you're in J and J as well. We always we were our slide attack is at jj. You guys. John. Well tell us about the company. Tell us about the round. I want to hit the gong. Tell us what's going on. Sweet. Yeah. So we're John and Jack, co CEOs of a sort health. We are an agentic platform for the entire patient journey for provider groups. So healthcare providers. We do everything from work call center automation, voice AI to handling factor.

But vive coding almost feels like the miss start we had with blogging and geocities where there was a moment where everyone was going to make their own website and they did, and then they just weren't very good and it didn't go anywhere. There weren't really websites that blew up that I know that were built on top of like a GeoCities or maybe I'm dating myself. You guys don't even remember those. Yeah, we are like, it feels like we're very close to being able to effectively Vibe code an iOS app in the cloud, have it deploy it to TestFlight and you get that app back on your phone and close that loop entirely on your phone in an Apple compliant way. Now, it couldn't go viral because it's not in the store. You might be able to have your agent go and submit it to the store and wait two weeks and then it gets out there, which might be an acceptable flywheel for some developers, but it is like the technology is going to get there quicker than the distribution and like the ideas. I think, I think you're spot. And the ability to test. I'm also surprised, sure this far into this AI cycle that it. I would have thought that the first thing we'd see is kind of top of the funnel, massive testing of, you know, using ads and links and things and. And tell your agent to spend all night testing and come back in the morning with the winning variant. And I don't even see it. I don't know about you guys, I don't see even one successful company or service offering that. And I don't find any founders doing that. It's more. You can build something in three months, kind of. That would have taken a year or two. Yeah, so. So it's more of I can get to my prototype faster, but not. I can test a lot of ideas faster. Yeah. Speaking of ads, do you think hyper casual games should be.

Our average vehicle is generating $7.50 of revenue a day. We have to charge the vehicle, fix the vehicle, use spare parts, make sure it's positioned the right place at the right time. And we do all that and we generate a 50% plus cash margins on that $7.50. And because we're able to get that level of margins, we pay back our vehicles in less than one year. But you're talking about a relatively low price point product. Small mistakes very quickly adds up and the business becomes upside down, which is what you see Most of our competitors, it's not for the lack of capital. A lot of our competitors raised more money than we did. They were in the market longer. And it's obviously hard because if it was easy, they would have done it too. And I think it also requires a clear view of what actually matters. And in the world of limited resources, we are very focused that we want to be. The way to crack this business is great hardware, great software, great operations, government relations, and then everything else we have to deprioritize in a incredibly strict way in order to put our limited resources towards the things that actually matter in this business. What is going on.

But. But vibe coding almost feels like the misstart we had with blogging and geocities where there was a moment where everyone was going to make their own website and they did and then they just weren't very good. And it didn't go anywhere. There was. There weren't really websites that blew up. Yeah. That I know. That were built on top of like a GeoCities or maybe I'm dating myself. You guys don't even remember those. Yeah, we are like, it feels like we're very close to being able to effectively Vibe code an iOS app in the cloud, have it deploy it to TestFlight and you get that app back on your phone and close that loop entirely on your phone in an Apple compliant way. Now, it couldn't go viral because it's not in the store. You might be able to have your agent go and submit it to the store and wait two weeks and then it gets out there, which might be an acceptable flywheel for some developers, but it is like the technology is going to get there quicker than the distribution and like the ideas. I think, I think you're spot. And the ability to test. I'm also surprised, sure this far into this AI cycle that if I would have thought that the first thing we'd see is kind of top of the funnel, massive testing of, you know, using ads and links and things and. And tell your agent to spend all night testing and come back in the morning with the winning variant. And I don't even see it. I don't know about you guys. I don't see even one successful company or service offering that. And I don't find any founders doing that. It's more. You can build something in three months, kind of. That would have taken a year or two. Yeah. So. So it's more of I can get to my prototype faster but not. I can test a lot of ideas faster. Yeah. Speaking of ads, do you think hyper casual.

Anyone who tells you that there's anything that's going to help your company about going public, I think nine times out of 10, they're lying to you. Now, SpaceX and these large cap AI companies, they legitimately need access to capital markets. And so they are optimizing for that. If you don't have that need for capital market access, there is no benefit. It's only bad. In fact, you have so many employees who leave because they say, yeah, I always wanted to be at a company went public, it was on my bucket list, goodbye. And so you give them this liquidity, you give them this thing on their resume, and so now they're gone. Your culture changes. Ours did. And now Michael Dell once told me, before he took his company private and then public again, that the biggest reason to go private was to control communications with his employees because he said, you know, they, they get their views from stock chat rooms and what their family is reading and not from Michael Dell. And so it's. No, there's. It gives you like five other jobs as a CEO that you don't need. Like, you should be focused on your product. Customer, product team, not investor. IPO media. Yeah. Makes a ton of sense. Well, the book is Life at the Spot.

Our average vehicle is generating $7.50 of revenue a day. We have to charge the vehicle, fix the vehicle, use spare parts, make sure it's positioned the right place at the right time. And we do all that, and we generate a 50% plus cash margins on that $7.50. And because we're able to get that level of margins, we pay back our vehicles in less than one year. But you're talking about a relatively low price point product. Small mistakes very quickly adds up and the business becomes upside down, which is what you see. Most of our competitors, it's not for the lack of capital. A lot of our competitors raised more money than we did. They were in the market longer. And it's obviously hard because if it was easy, they would have done it, too. And I think also.

But. But vibe coding almost feels like the misstart we had with blogging and geocities where there was a moment where everyone was going to make their own website and they did and then they just weren't very good. And it didn't go anywhere. There was. There weren't really websites that blew up. Yeah. That I know. That were built on top of like a GeoCities or maybe I'm dating myself. You guys don't even remember those. Yeah, we are like, it feels like we're very close to being able to effectively Vibe code an iOS app in the cloud, have it deploy it to TestFlight and you get that app back on your phone and close that loop entirely on your phone in an Apple compliant way. Now, it couldn't go viral because it's not in the store. You might be able to have your agent go and submit it to the store and wait two weeks and then it gets out there, which might be an acceptable flywheel for some developers, but it is like the technology is going to get there quicker than the distribution and like the ideas. I think, I think you're spot. And the ability to test. I'm also surprised, sure this far into this AI cycle that if I would have thought that the first thing we'd see is kind of top of the funnel, massive testing of, you know, using ads and links and things and. And tell your agent to spend all night testing and come back in the morning with the winning variant. And I don't even see it. I don't know about you guys. I don't see even one successful company or service offering that. And I don't find any founders doing that. It's more. You can build something in three months, kind of. That would have taken a year or two. Yeah, so. So it's more of I can get to my prototype faster, but not. I can.

For good reason. Anyone who tells you that there's anything that's going to help your company about going public, I think nine times out of ten, they're lying to you. Now, SpaceX and these large cap AI companies, they want, legitimately need access to capital markets. And so they are optimizing for that. If you don't have that need for capital market access, there is no benefit. It's only bad. In fact, you have so many employees who leave because they say, yeah, I always wanted to be at a company went public, it was on my bucket list, goodbye. And so you give them this liquidity, you know, you give them this thing on their resume and so now they're gone. Your culture changes. Ours did. And now. You know, Michael Dell once told me, before he took his company private and then public again, that the biggest reason to go private was to control communications with his employees. Because he said, you know, they, they get their views from stock chat rooms and what their family is reading and not from Michael Dell. And so it's. No, there's, it gives you like five other jobs as a CEO that you don't need. Like, you should be focused on your product, customer, product team, not investor, ipo.

Our average vehicle is generating $7.50 of revenue a day. We have to charge the vehicle, fix the vehicle, use spare parts, make sure it's positioned the right place at the right time. And we do all that and we generate a 50% plus cash margins on that $7.50. And because we're able to get that level of margins, we pay back our vehicles in less than one year. But you're talking about a relatively low price point product. Small mistakes very quickly adds up and the business becomes upside down, which is what you see. Most of our.

The massive capex. Of course. It's deeply confusing, John. Yeah. Is it? I mean the whole thing. The whole thing. What's confusing? I think that, I think it is practical what they're doing. Yeah. But it shouldn't, it doesn't. As somebody that, you know, I would say overall has been a big, you know, cheerleader for Meta, I think it's truly the best. In my view. It is the perfect business. It doesn't give you a lot of confidence in like the strategy overall. They're signing these Neo cloud deals worth tens of billions of dollars. They're built, you know, spending hundreds of billions of dollars and yeah, they can make the argument that these type of like doing any type of Neo cloud deals themselves is just good business. It's, it's just like how. It's just the best way to get ROI today. Yep. It doesn't give you a lot of confidence that there's near term products on the horizon for Metta that are going to be able to utilize that capacity themselves, which is clearly been their strategy. Mark and the team have never, have never said we want to be in the cloud business. They've talked about, yeah, they've talked about the possibility of it. Yeah. But the stated goal of MSL is personal superintelligence. We don't know what. Which I was a fan of and I think you were a huge fan of. You were like Manus on your phone, going around your social networks. That's my biggest bull case for all of this. Like it's very. There are so many different applications that I can imagine being a daily driver of in the Meta family of apps. Oddly, none of that has really been even tried in my opinion. It feels like a little bit early to call so far. Is Muse Spark good on benchmarks like decent, you know, like. But, but again, not anything that, that anyone should really get that excited about as a, you know, as a, as an API provider. Exactly. They did announce that they were going to release it. Being an API. I don't think they have. They might still. It's a model. It's a good model, sir, but I don't think it will have a lot of demand. Yeah. And then we've seen Meta Vibes, which was a mid Journey. Yeah. Wrapper. But the, the fact, even if, even if Muse Spark is not on the super giga frontier, can it be good enough to get some work done inside Meta family of apps like it should? I would imagine, yes, but they just haven't found that that killer feature like there are plenty of There are plenty of applications that are AI powered. There are plenty of models out there that have found their footing without being on the super intelligence path or on that particular curve. Yeah. And it's interesting because yesterday we were talking about the story where Google had been telling Matter like, hey, we don't have the capacity for you. And here, here Matter is with. With plenty of capacity themselves. I don't think we can read too much into this because it's just one article from Bloomberg. I think it will matter a lot who the potential buy buyers of COMPUTE are going to be if it's. There's a number of companies that I think the market would get excited about, but if they're actually just going and trying to compete as. Yeah, it's weird that it came as a leak about, around like a plan to sell compute as opposed to just what SpaceX did where it was just like, boom, huge contract with Anthropic, lots of excitement going into the ipo. Like that was such a perfectly massaged story as Space X entered the public markets. That would have been great if they just said, hey, we have a Frontier lab that's paying us $1 billion a month now and like it's going to show up in earnings next quarter, like get ready. But the stock market loved it. Like the stock is way up and I don't know if it's way up because they see it as a huge growth area for Meta. Now. Is it that crazy? Well, I think people have been wondering where's the ROI going to come from for this? Hundreds of billions of dollars spend and up until now there's been no obvious place that it's going to come from. Right. The Manus deal that's being unwound. Yeah, they have the deal with, you know, Mid Journey and Vibes that's, you know, unclear. Yeah, there's. It seems very obvious that they're going to be able to integrate AI into their glasses over time. Yeah. But the glasses that have product market fit today are more of just like the. I think the product market fit is really with the camera, not the intelligence. Combined with a pair of glasses. Yeah. Which is also.

All these compromises to de risk it. Is that the correct question to ask to assess someone's level of ambition? Should you ask them 80% chance of a home run in 10 years versus, you know, 20% chance of base hit or something like that, or, sorry, vice versa, or are there other. Yeah, 80%, those are good odds, but. Or are there other questions that you can dig into when you're talking to a founder to actually assess their level of ambition? I think you can pretty quickly. You guys seen this too? Get a sense of what's motivating somebody and why they're doing this. I think that the best founders have a passion for this that goes beyond this one business or opportunity, and they need that because it's probably going to fail. And. And so I think that there's a question like, why are some founders repeating success and some have one big success? And I think it is like your kind of commitment and willpower. And if you're more committed to. Because we've talked about founder mode and there's all these moments where I think as a founder, we have to have real courage. But it's not courage to go against the world. It's usually courage to go against our own team, our own investors, because we've promised them things, we built expectations with them, and now we have to tell them we are wrong. And you come in on Monday, you're like, I just saw another product the competitor had last week, and what we're doing is totally wrong. And people have complained. Working with Mark is like third grade soccer. Every Monday he wants to chase another ball. And they're not wrong a lot of the time because I'm trying to be intellectually honest and I can burn people out that way, but it's because I'm more committed to winning than I am kind of harmony or even keeping this team with me. So I think that's more of the thread that I look for is, do I see that this person is more motivated by taking the hill and winning than being liked or respected? Yeah. It's so interesting because you have. I've been in that.

A big message in the book. And I think it's. I still need to hear that message today because we fall in love with our ideas. Yeah. How much? Like to you, what is the balance between some ideas? Like I find this in consumer like quite a quite a bit more than enterprise because it typically is a lot more defined. But in consumer, like there's ideas that I've been pitched and I'm like, that's a terrible idea. And then like the founder, you know, just does it and it, and it totally works. And sometimes it's unpredictable and I think you can like tune your intuition like quite a bit. But it can never be like 100% crystal ball. You just know exactly whether an idea is going to work or not. Like what is your, what has been your framework of. Yeah, like what's the point where you're like I'm not 100% sure this idea will work, but it's worth put putting in the three weeks or three months or whatever time is necessary to actually get the reality check to the idea. Well, I think that we have idea veins or instinct veins. And so there's a zone that you have an instinct around. And then I have this framework proven better new, which is a way to kind of de risk that and keep ourselves out of trouble. So like just narrow down where your idea is new or novel and wherever it's not, look for what's already proven and copy it. And people like Nikita Bear have really, really been good at that. And you know, there he's done kind of the same product over and over again and it's worked each time. So I think that at least means you're not going to fail for the wrong reason. And you get a lot more shots on goal and the whole and in consumer even, you know, much more than enterprise. It really is. If you test more ideas in a week than the industry, you're in a contestant a year, you probably have a 4 or 5x advantage, you know, higher odds of success. And I'll also say that the reality in consumer is, you know, where you see traction, there's a good idea and where you don't see traction is not a good idea. And that might sound kind of dumb, but I find in consumer you could back you're better off backing an unproven entrepreneur who's found for whatever reason, product market fit than a proven entrepreneur like me with no product market fit. And that's just as an unfortunate reality. I have a bunch of questions. I have a fun thought exercise. So John and I have had this debate.

Yeah. Is the enemy of an A because it's good enough to get funding and get a team. And yeah, it's funny because when I was, when I was like around maybe senior year of college, I was working on a product and I felt like I was getting like two different types of advice. Like one is like, don't listen to anyone. Just like, you know, advice is worthless. Just like do, do, do, and you'll, and you'll figure it out. And then, and then, and then on the other side, you know, people are giving you, you know, advice and sort of playbooks. And I distinctly remember one meeting that I had where somebody who's now a friend was like, you're super talented. This idea, like, it's okay, but it's not great and it's going to hold you back from your potential. And I, and I just like didn't fully listen, but it's just stuck in my head since that point. Sad, right? We see founders who are talented and they are just sticking with an idea that's just not quite right or not that good. It's because there's something in their gut that they know is amazing. That was me. I talk a lot about it in the book that this is not a humble brag. I managed to fail. I created one of the first three social networks, tribe.net and there were probably 10 launched in that two or three year period, including Facebook and MySpace and tagged and bebop. Eight of the 10 probably made it were successful on some level. I was probably amongst the two that weren't. And so it took an act of willpower to fail. And I had that much will. I was, I was so determined to stick with this one losing idea that really by the time I got to Zynga, I was just not going to do that again. And I think that's a big message in the book and I think I still need to hear that message today because we fall in love with our ideas. Yeah. How much.

The hospitality is a great starting point. But we already see now after three days we have already over a thousand pre orders and a lot from the US. I like this.

Of use. Yeah. Where do you think you either differ with the 0 to 1 thinking? Do you think it needs expansions, updates? Like what? What needs to be added to the canon that isn't in zero to one? Well, like what? What to actually do. So, yeah, I mean, that's a good point. Zero to one is. I just reread it a year ago and it motivated me again and I was like, oh yeah, I love the moral arbitrage and the monopoly and it's these big ideas that you love and you can repeat, but it's not a how to guide or a playbook. And I think so many people have ideas and they either don't pursue them and I think in this new world, AI, that's a shame because the bar is so low, or they do and they fail for the wrong reasons. I think you guys have probably seen this too. So many people who, they have a great idea, but it's buried in a losing product. And so the core thesis that I've been saying over and over to myself and other people across my career is that once you realize that you have winning instincts and you've attached them to losing ideas, it changes everything and that's how you change your odds of success. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that A plus entrepreneur with a C plus market or C plus opportunity. Yeah. Or a B plus idea is the enemy of an A because it's good enough to get funding and get a team. And yeah, it's funny because when I was, when I.

Interesting idea. Interesting idea. Which one? Christopher Nolan. Went to an AMC Burbank 16 fairly often. Team loves it. We're seeing the new Nolan movie. We just bought tickets. We got a crew assembled for the Odyssey. We're very excited. Look at this. Kind of blowing up his spot a little bit. Yeah, really Let the man just enjoy a film. A film and a big bucket of popcorn. Let me tell you about MongoDB. What's the only thing.

In. Mark Pincus is joining us in just a few minutes. So we'll bring him Millennials. Be like, Norm MacDonald is funny. Then you watch some of his videos, and there's no meta glasses pranks, no vine boom sound effects, no meme clips interspersed, no undisclosed gambling ads, no Dexter background music. I don't know the Dexter background music thing. I'm not online enough for that. I think you would probably recognize the sound. You would probably recognize. It's just kind of like meme background music at this point. Yeah, Dexter background music.

We can continue to cover the story. More meta news, what is that? Apparently, according to Bobby Allen over at NPR Considered, buying Kalshi before it's developing its own prediction market app that is sort of a classic meta playbook. This sort of puts to bed your theory that they might be just making a, you know, clout based, clout based prediction markets where you compete for your ability to see the future. I feel manifold, is that right? Yeah. So it's like a, it's like a pretty big platform. Yes. But I was saying there's a chance right now based on the reporting that it could be the manifold strategy or it could be the polymarket Kalshi strategy and the fact that they didn't try and acquire Manifold, they tried to acquire Kalshi sort of signals like, hey, they're probably going the financially incentivized route, which I think fits with your thesis that, you know, it's in consumer, it's profitable and growing very fast. And also Tarek from Kalshi was taking shots at Instagram saying it's brain rot, saying that like every minute you spend on Kalshi is a minute that you're not spending brain rotting on Instagram, which is like, okay, I think a lot of people would say that these are like equivalent or maybe one is worse than the other. But you know, that's a way to get attention. You think that. So the potential pool of profits in prediction markets and sports betting broadly, I think in the last year, was it 100 and Tyler, can you check? I think it was like 160 ish billion of trading volume. That is not at all equivalent to revenue, obviously. But it feels like again, it's not a space that. It's a space that has consistently had many, many, many players wildly different than, you know, meta's core social networking business. And I just wonder is like, is the potential profit pool risk, the attention that worth the risk of all the attention you're going to get from lawmakers globally by integrating, integrating like betting into the product that is already under attack on like a million different fronts. Right. It feels like a movie coming out and stuff. It's like you're jumping straight to the. It feels like you have a golden goose, Right? And the goose is getting valued. The goose is getting value going back. I'm gonna just keep going back to the slides. The goose is valued, it's producing golden eggs. And you see another golden egg, but it's almost like a poison golden egg. And if you bring it over, yeah, it might to the, the farm it might kill the goose. Okay. Kill your main goose, potentially. And so it feels. Feels risky. Yeah. I just sent in the true value. This is the rise of American gambling. These are losses by year in the United States. It's now almost at $250 billion. So I wanted to think about getting into gambling. How. What's the correct gambling strategy? And I got one. I got one. So you go to the Monarch Casino. Wait, Americans are losing 240 billion a year, I think. Or maybe this is. Is this is cumulative? No, this isn't cumulative. This is. This is per year. I don't know. I don't know. I just saw this image. It's high, it's growing. Doesn't look good. Doesn't look good. Here's a gambling strategy that might work out. Not financial advice, but the Monarch Casino and Resort. If you. This company went public in 1993, and if you went to the Monarch Casino Resort and every week you gambled $100 on their stock by buying the stock over the run, just gambling $100 a week on their stock from 1993 to today, you would have put in $174,000, and it would be worth $3.3 million. So just depends on where you want to gamble. Gamble on the stock, potentially. It's a fascinating company. Golden Door Motel, family owned. They have two assets. They have two. They have two casinos. And this company is just absolutely printing 36% EBITDA margin. And they buy back stock, and they also pay a dividend. It's just two properties, Reno and Blackhawk in. Where's Blackhawk? In Colorado. And they've just grown this small chain of casinos, and then the stock's done very well. So own the house, don't bet on the actual casino. Stay out of the casino, Stay in the stock market potentially. And.

Cloud is. Is closer to one, but anyways, I'm interested to see. I imagine they'll have to come out with their own kind of news around this pretty quickly so that they're not sitting in limbo with just one kind of rumored article floating out there. And people are speculating. Ju Khan is saying Meta falls out of the air race. He's over at Citrini as well. Too soon to say that probably. They still have a bunch of amazing talent. They certainly have a lot of GPUs. And you know, Elon getting into the cloud business, certainly he was not seeding the AI race. Right. I think he seemingly is as motivated as ever to. To do what he can to win or at least be a player. It's just. It's almost like the curse of size or something. Like when you're a trillion dollar company, there's probably a world that the Meta Ray Ban display is a good example of like or Meta Ray Bans. Good example of like. There's probably a piece of consumer hardware that's AI enabled, like the Ring or something where. Or just getting really good at voice models or just getting really good at image models. And if they're a little bit more narrow and constrained, they could probably completely dominate that. But trying to do superintelligence and, and coding agents and it's a little. It's a little scattered potentially. Serenity says there's a lot of disinformation going around about Meta cutting capex because they quote overbuilt. This is an if they have excess capacity. And it looks like the opposite right now. Hyperscalers like Google are so much are so compute constrained that they have had to cut allocations to Meta. Back in March, since Meta was using too much for internal projects, Meta was immediately constrained. So it looks like they were forced to immediately sign massive $48 billion contracts with Neo clouds like Core Weave and Nebias. Meta is selling excess capacity if there's any, especially since their large contracts are take or pay from the new Neo clouds. Yeah, this all could just be like a potential. Like you're laying the groundwork in case you wind up in a situation where that is where the value is accruing. That's where the advantage for Meta is. So there certainly is a positive thesis there. Jae Yoon says we are still massively short compute. Meta and XAI are selling compute because there's no inference demand for their models. It's a compute allocation problem. Too much compute in the hands of players with no internal use for it. Not a compute surplus problem. Interesting. Well, we can continue.

So our first guest will be joining in 30 minutes and we'll take you through the news. Meta is selling compute. They're getting out of the computing business. They said we don't need computers anymore to do what we need to do. We don't need them, we're going to be selling them. Meta Platforms is developing plans for a cloud infrastructure business to sell access to AI computing power and models. Competing with industry leaders like AWS and gcp, the company is considering selling access to various AI models hosted on its existing AI infrastructure as well as raw computing capacity as part of its Meta Compute initiative. Meta plans to generate revenue from excessive computing power could help return its investment in AI infrastructure, which includes hundreds of billions of dollars spent on data centers and expensive chips. And so lots of reactions to this. The Neo cloud market is selling off, oddly enough. Meta has a bunch of NEO cloud contracts. Some of those companies are sell because now they're a buyer and also a competitor. Lots of different takes about, you know, Meta finding its footing, finding something that justifies the massive capex. Of course it's deeply confusing, John. Yeah. Is it? I mean the whole thing. The whole thing. What's confusing? I think that, I think it is practical what they're doing. Yeah, but it shouldn't, it doesn't. As somebody that, that, you know, I would say overall has been a big, you know, cheerleader for Meta, I think it's really the best in, in my view it is a perfect business. It doesn't give you a lot of confidence in like the strategy overall. They're signing these Neo cloud deals worth tens of billions of dollars. They're built, you know, spending hundreds of billions of dollars and yeah, they can make the argument that these type of like doing any type of Neo cloud deals themselves is just good business. It's just like how it's just the best way to get ROI today. It doesn't give you a lot of confidence that there's near term products on the horizon for Meta that are going to be able to utilize that capacity themselves, which is clearly been their strategy. Mark and the team have never, have never said we want to be in the cloud business. They've talked about, yeah, they've talked about the possibility of it but the stated goal of MSL is personal superintelligence. We don't know which I was a fan of and I think you were a huge fan of. You were like Manus on your phone going around your social networks. That's my biggest bull case for all of this. Like it's very There are so many different applications that I can imagine being a daily driver of in the Meta family of apps. Oddly, none of that has really been even tried, in my opinion. It feels like a little bit. Yeah. All we've seen so far is Muse Spark good on benchmarks, like decent, you know, like. But. But again, not anything to that that anyone should really get that excited about as a, you know, as a. As an API provider. Exactly. They did announce that they were going to release it via an API. I don't think they have. They might still. It's a model. It's a good model, sir, but I don't think it will have a lot of demand. Yeah, and then we've seen Meta Vibes, which was a mid journey wrapper. But the fact, even if Muse Spark is not on the super giga frontier, can it be good enough to get some work done inside Meta family of apps like it should? I would imagine, yes, but they just haven't found that killer feature. There are plenty of. There are plenty of applications that are AI powered. There are plenty of models out there that have found their footing without being on the super intelligence path or on that particular curve. Yeah, and it's interesting because yesterday we were talking about the story where Google had been telling Meta.