Wins. Team death match. We are experts. Triple Blaze. Let's just roll right? Market clearing order inbound. We are surrounded by General. Hold your position. Strike 1. Strike 2, Activate. Go to retriever mode. Market clearing order inbound. I see multiple journalists on the horizon. Founder, another one. You're watching TVPN. Today is Monday, June 8, 2026. We are live from the TVPN Ultra Dome, the temple of technology. We're back in the fortress of finance. We're back at the capital of capital. It's so good to be back. So good to be back. And it's also so good to tell you about ramp.com Time is money. Say both easy to use, corporate cards, bill, payments, accounting, and a whole lot more all in one place. Oh, the soundboard with the stinger with the ad read. Chef's kiss. Chef's kiss. WWDC. Also chef's kiss. Long overdue. Two years, two WWCs ago, we were talking about Apple Intelligence and it's all finally coming together. The package is finally being delivered. I think the response has been really good. Some of the guys on the team have been watching WWC already. We have a bunch of folks calling in to discuss WWC throughout the week. But let's give you the high level first. Go through some of the immediate reactions. And of course, we'll be covering that throughout this week. So Apple's annual Worldwide Developers Conference started today and it runs through Friday. Tim Cook just kicked it off with an opening keynote. The theme for this year's conference is All Systems Glow. All Systems Glow. Interesting. Anyway, we're finally getting answers about what the next version of Siri will look like. I think expectations. Expectations are in a weird place. Like, they're high. Everyone's expecting, like, this next version of iOS, which is what they're demoing. That's the main thing of the software version. This isn't an iPhone event. This isn't a hardware event. This is WWDC about the software. Everyone's expecting that this is software will go through an actual transformation and the next version of Apple software will be good and people will be talking about how good it is because they will deliver on a bunch of things. At the same time, expectations aren't so high. Like going into Apple Vision Pro, where people are expecting a breakthrough that no other company has ever done before. All people are asking for is implement the best practices from ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, like, the stuff we know and love. Even Grok has, like, nicely interfaced into X where, like, people say, hey, Grok is this Real and just pulls it up for you. I find myself on tweets just going, oh yeah, like I don't want to copy this text out and into another LLM app. I'm happy just asking Grok real quick for an extra detail or one more fact. Google search over use. Like, there's been a lot of AI diffusion into products that's been good. Even Ramp, like ramp has like chat interface where you can just say like, hey, how much did we actually spend on Amazon last month? And it'll just pull it up for you. And it's not like this revolutionary. Well, here's the thing. It's just I think they did a nice tool. I think they did a good job just letting the hype build or the interest build organically. Right. You rewind. A year or two ago they were running billboards for Apple intelligence, for Genmoji, all this stuff. So really setting themselves up for failure. That stuff was overhyped and I think this. And they were, they were a part of. They were. Yeah, they were. Of course they were hyping it themselves. Of course. Of course they were like, are we goated? Yeah. But it seems like they have the right partnerships and the right product strategy at this point. People are familiar with these tools, so just putting them in different places seems reasonable. Models are good now, so make them available at the click of a button. Ideally the Siri button which has been completely nerfed for the last two years. Actually more than that because Siri has never really seen the adoption or love product love that many other products and users will be happy. So Google AI search overviews are a good example that prove that rolling out LLMs, rolling out LLM responses and LLM generated text, it can be nerve wracking. But it's not rocket science. Like you spit the text out where people expect the answer. There will be funny viral hallucinations. Like right now, even with all the crazy Google I o news, amazing 5.3.5 foundation models, like they're doing really good stuff. DeepMind's really good. Great team. Like you still say disregard and instead of just giving you the definition, it says like, okay, got it. I won't, I won't do that anymore. And it gets confused. So there will be those like viral, like jokey. Wow, it failed. It flopped. That's going to happen to Apple and that's not what Apple likes to deal with. Not at all. But I don't think any of that will show up in the user metrics. I think that churn and usage will Be unaffected from the viral moment of like, oh, Apple, like the Apple text summaries. They're hilarious and they often hallucinate and get things wrong. You still keep them on though. I left them on. I don't mind them. And I think a lot of times they're sort of useful and they're always delightful because they're funny, because they're so hallucinatory. But your PR team will have many heart attacks though, because you're not in the world of deterministic outputs anymore. So that's going to be a big cultural shift for Apple, I think, in this non deterministic stochastic AI era. But I think that they can get through it just by running best practices that have been established for a year or two years in the rest of the AI world. The other big questions that everyone's asking around Ben Thompson circling around this open ecosystems. So will Apple lean into the open claw Mac mini boom at all? That would be interesting to see, say in the next version of the software that goes on the Mac Mini, hey, we're going to embrace openclaw. We're going to embrace AI agents. We're going to do things that make those tools more effective in our ecosystem. You already know and love the hardware. You're buying it nonstop. It's out of stock. But we could do more to lean into that community or we could do less. We could say, hey, we're going to shut it down. We're worried about privacy. These are the two tensions that they're going to have to deal with. Will there be a pivot around Vibe coding apps in the iOS app store? You asked Jon Gruber from Daring Fireball this when he joined the show on May 29th. Fantastic interview. Had a ton of fun with a group of. But it's a big question and it's something that Apple is maybe they don't really have to respond yet. They're pretty quiet when things happen. They usually go and solve the problem and oh, they really don't want to talk about it. Yeah. But eventually they start like they didn't want to talk about climate change, but then they did a bunch of things to get to like Net zero and eco friendly buildings and solar panels on the roof and stuff. And then once they did, they were really noisy about it because they were like, we are carbon neutral or we will be by a certain date. I think once they figure out how to make money on it, then they'll start. Yes, they should. Which, yeah, I will say I fully support. Exactly. So there's Others, there's other questions. Will native iOS apps from other AI labs have more access to iPhone functionality? What's the pathway for ChatGPT interfacing? Claude Gemini? If you're using those apps, how many hooks are there? Will they be able to siphon in your text messages if you click yeah, I want to share my text messages, my imessage with my app of choice? Or will you need to say yes every single time? Which will be a huge burden to having that integration happen? There's a lot of social media apps that say, hey, we want access to your whole camera roll, all of it, forever. And that's somewhat intimidating. You get a number of different options. You can say, I want temporary access. Just take this photo. You can't see my whole library. Now people trust many people, maybe they just don't know, but they feel like they trust a lot of these maps. So they just say, yeah, yeah, take the whole camera roll. Sort of a crazy thing to do that they can just download your entire camera roll if you press that button. But people have. And so what will the AI version of that be and how deep will it be and how much will it build on top of the Siri App intents functionality versus other APIs that are deeper in the iOS ecosystem. So lots to dig into and I'm excited to talk to some guests. There's one last thing which is we, I mean, we talked about how Apple doesn't want to address eco stuff until it's like, okay, we got it solved. And I'm wondering if in the coming years there's going to be pressure for some sort of response on the whole, like, phones are reducing the fertility rate stats because I don't know if you saw, but there was another research paper that was posted and Derek Thompson basically zoomed out and said that I wasn't convinced and now he is convinced that it's like up to 30% of the reason for the recent decline below 2. And I don't know where you sit on below the replacement rate. Below the replacement rate. Not good if you're a fan of humanity and having a high population. But that is something that you could see bubbling up to being something that big tech companies, social media companies, device manufacturers have to answer to when they're in like freeform podcasts basically. But you know that these companies are not going to want to address as opposed to the AI CEOs that are like, oh, you want to talk about killing everyone? Absolutely, I'd love to talk about that for an hour. The PM of Denmark or what country was saying it's time to return. I'd rather. No, she specifically said, I would rather let my kids smoke cigarettes than use an iPhone. Which is crazy. But I don't know, maybe there's something there. Maybe the cure for cancer is right around the corner, but the cure for brain rot is not. Yeah. And it's such a different debate because, like, clearly a single drag on a heater. Yeah. Is no good. Right. You're ingesting poison. Yeah. A single look at a screen. Right. Is not what is, you know, reducing the fertility rate. So anyways, it's interesting. I don't know. I do wonder if how that pressure would bubble up, like the way we have dealt as a society in America with those big questions before. Before the era where every AI lab CEO goes on podcasts and just talks about everything constantly in the hearings. So, like a social media addiction trial or there is a privacy hearing on Capitol Hill and the senators all ask. They bring in the leaders from all the different companies and they say, we've heard that there's this problem and we want you to answer our questions directly. And it's streamed on C Span and you can see that. And so that's where the famous Senator we sell ads quote comes from, from Mark Zuckerberg. And you could imagine that if there was an administration and a group of senators that were worried about the birth rate thing and they believed that the phones were related, they could bring in device manufacturers, social media executives and actually ask them about. So millions of people build software on top of the iPhone designed to addict people and capture as much of their attention as possible. The Wall Street Journal. Apple can kind of. My screen time on the Wall Street Journal app is through the roof. It's crazy. It's crazy, John, But Apple can kind of sit back and just saying, like, we're not trying to make the device addictive. Totally. We're trying to make it simple, easy to use. It's a utility. And truthfully, like Apple, I think all of the native apps, none of them are brain rotty or addictive. They're very much like, this is the Maps app. It helps you get there, close it when you're done. And we're. Our business relationship just say you're not addicted. They have ads to the calculator app. Yeah, they have. So. But in general, their business model is not really aligned with, like, screen time necessarily. Although it should. It is in the broader sense. Because if you're using this thing all the time, you're like 2,000 bucks. I use it 40 hours a week. You know, I can underwrite it. Like, you know, people buy an expensive bed and they're like, I spend half my life on it or whatever, you know. Yeah. I always did think it was funny that there, there never ended up being the, you know, the $20,000 phone, which there would be a pretty big market for a lot of. It's just the technology. Like $20,000 gets you like 5% more battery life because like you need $10 trillion manufacturing facility to actually deliver any bump there. It's not like 10x the price gets you 10x the performance or 10x like you can't put a GB200 in here, you can't put a Tesla battery in here. It just doesn't work. Anyway, let's go to some reactions from wwdc. But first I'm going to tell you about console. Console builds AI agents that automate 70% of it. HR and finance support, giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets. So vibes on Apple iPhone. I'm going to update your software tonight while you sleep. Next morning, iPhone says I couldn't do it bro, just didn't feel right. Vibe was off. This is something that I didn't know was so common. But I think everyone's been in this position which is like a funny thing. I think it has to do with how much the battery is charged. But lots of low hanging fruit hopefully resolved in wwc. I did see a whole bunch of stats about just little performance gains. 30% faster opening of the lock screen, 30% faster on opening this app and just little optimizations that I think will go a lot further. When we talk to Mark Gurman, he talks about how the AI features are too abstract. People want battery life, cameras, beautiful screens fast. They want the basics most of the time. And so I think this is time to chop. It would be funny if they effectively threw up a model card and they're comparing. It's like they actually Bento box is the original model card, 2% better on. That's sort of what they do. You know the bento box, right? The bento box with like how many cameras, megapixels, flops and how powerful the GPU is, how many cores are over here, how much storage it has. Like that graphic is their model card. We were riffing on this earlier. Like when a product ceases to be sold on brand and is instead sold on performance, that's usually margin compression. Usually margin compression like you comp it to cars. Like if you're Purely buying on like range and price and speed and horsepower and seating arrangements. That feels much more commoditized than you got to have a Ferrari because it's a Ferrari. Don't ask about the specs. And I think for the Luce, this is the first time that people were talking about like oh, 0 to 60 and 2.5 for that price isn't actually that good. It's like that's not the conversation you should be having about Ferrari. You should just be like, it's a Ferrari. Stop. Next question. Like, do you want one or not? Right? Yeah. Anyway, speaking of Mark Gurman, hilarious post from Sam Henry Gold here. Of course in jest, but they put up a Apple press release in the newsroom. Apple announces the death of Mark Gurman. It is done. It is done. Apple today announced the completion of Operation One More Thing a multi year initiative to permanently end the unauthorized disclosure of Apple's prerelease product information by Bloomberg Intelligence reporter Mark Gurman. Gurman, who had for 16 consecutive years obtained and published accurate details about Apple's products before their announcement has been neutralized. Operation One More Thing was completed on schedule, on budget and without complication. They're not that aggressive towards Mark Gurman but he is probably a thorn on their side. And here he is. He has a live blog up. Live blog for WWDC. Go check it out@Bloomberg.com Eric Suefer is leaning in. Why is he leaning in? Because Mark Gurman says something about wwc. He says in addition to the focus on AI Siri and major quality and performance improvements across the operating systems, I'd expect two other focal points today. Privacy and safety features. I imagine Suefert is leaning in because privacy safety features not great for ad monetization. Usually you're hiding more information. Tyler, what's been your reaction? Generally, take me through whatever. I've been watching the live stream. It's. It's still going on. So they're still releasing stuff. But I would say just on that point they've been like, have you been watching or have you been studying? I was studying. Every time they talk about a new feature with AI, they always say this is on a private cloud. This is not public. This is extremely secure. So they're really pushing on that point, I think. What does private cloud mean? I don't know. They're talking about their own foundation models, I think. So they're trying to emphasize that. It seems like they have. Have they said the word Gemini? I don't know if they said it, but it was on screen it seems like they have the ability with their deal with Gemini to basically white label fine tune mid train, do whatever they need to and then resell that with their own branding. That's great deal. My question is like, who's inferencing that? Because there's a billion iPhone users and if they're all pushing the Siri button all day long and they're anywhere near the frontier, that's a significant amount of inference. And has Apple built some sort of secret data center that can serve that? Are they saying private cloud? And really it's like a corner of gcp? Is it a bunch of Mac Minis wired together? Like what did they do to actually build that private cloud? Because even if they did it, even if they did it and didn't show up in the CapEx numbers, didn't show up in any of the SEC filings, it would show up in the emissions data and the ESG numbers. Because unless they have some crazy solar nuclear powered facility, where's that inference coming from? I imagine some of it can be done on device. That's exciting. Jonah says on device. Can it all be done on device, Tyler? I don't know. Groxen says they brought up rate limits in a subscription plan. Huh. Did you see that? Yeah, I'll look for that. I mean you don't have rate limits or subscription plan if it's on device because why would you. And then also you would never say private cloud if you're doing it on device. You would just say it's on device. Of course it's private. So private cloud cloud means not on device. It's in the cloud. And so obviously Apple has a lot of data centers, they have a lot of cloud capacity across their productivity suite. Where are the photos stored in iPhotos? Like obviously those are stored in the cloud. They have a lot of storage. Like everyone gets two terabytes when they get a phone. So they clearly have a lot of data center capacity and they've done a lot to make that ESG compliant. But I'm very curious about where that goes over time. Anyway, we should move on to the news from Friday. The stocks are already back up. But first I'm going to tell you about CrowdStrike. Your business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches. So one more thing. Oh sure. Apparently one more thing, one more thing. One more take from Jordan about Apple. Jane says Apple concedes on liquid glass design, compromising for usability and shares a couple screenshots here and so wait, so they're going deeper in liquid glass or pulling back from pulling back. I saw the new Apple Maps icon and it looked pretty good. It had a little feature of liquid glass in there. I thought it looked cool as a design element. I did hear people complaining about the new Mac operating system being like too bright or too dark or something like some contrast issue. I haven't noticed it, but it was something I saw people complaining about. Anyway, Friday. Friday was a big day in the market. We were off, but the news kept moving. So we're covering it today. The Labor Department reported that the U.S. added a seasonally adjusted 172,000 jobs and that the unemployment rate remained unchanged at 4.3%. So on the COVID of the Wall Street Journal, U.S. hiring gathers steam. Third straight monthly increase. Slight decrease from the previous month, which was slight down from the previous month, but still in adding territory in the hundreds of thousands. So the bubble popped. The bubble popped. Friday was the worst day for the NASDAQ in more than a year. 4.2% down. It's over. But good news is that today we're back. We're up 1.5% now it's officially 2003. People ask what year it is re inflating. It's no, no, it's not re inflating. We're building back. The bubble popped. It's 2003 now. It's not 99, it's not 2000, it's 2003. We're well past the bubble popping. Got it. Right. So but actually quick explanation, what happened? So the US labor market is really picking up. 172,000 seasonally adjusted jobs added in May, third month in a row. Decent amount are a lot of healthcare for the World Cup. Yes. And a lot of travel and, and workers related to the World cup stuff that's going on. Tourism. So this is terrible news for all those black pilled AI leaders that have been praying manifesting job losses. Despite their herculean efforts, they can't get the unemployment rate to go up at all. It's crazy. They've been saying 10%, 20%, 50%, 100% of all jobs are going away. Good luck. Yeah, you're gonna have to work harder. Because the US economy is undefeated and the American worker is undefeated as evidenced by this latest jobs report. The AI job apocalypse is canceled at least for the month of May. We will see where things go. Of course, of course. But it is good news. We want hiring. We want jobs to be abundant in our society. And so in General, it's good news. I believe the jobs report. I don't think the numbers are going to be massively revised down. I think that they're, they're, they're generally accurate and track with the ADP numbers and a lot of other numbers. So I think the jobs are really being added. They're not in all the most critical industries. There's a lot of nuance there. How long will it go on? But in general, the economy is healthy, but inflation is rising. The closing of the straight for Hormuz has spiked. The cost of gas and overall prices have been increasing more quickly than the Fed would like for some time. Even before the strait of Hormuz, inflation was running a little hot. Yeah. Well above the 2% target. Yes. For basically as long as I've been an adult. Yeah. And so this makes the likelihood of a rate cut more unlikely. In fact, it looks like we might be in rate hike territory soon, which is of course not good for tech companies that have earning forecasts that stretch out into the next decade. So the silver lining in rate high rates, if you want some copium, is that at least the Fed has something useful in the tool chest in case the economy does slow down. You know, like we're running hot, we have high rates. At least there's room to cut to 3%, 2%, 1%, 0. If the market's selling off. If the unemployment rate's going up, you have something in the tank. Whereas in during COVID like, the rates were already so low, there was a lot of unemployment all of a sudden. And it was just like stimulus. Spend a bunch of money, you know, mail everyone a check. There wasn't that much that the Fed could do. Yeah. There was a time that we couldn't imagine this level of speculation in the markets at something like where rates are right now. Right. Yeah. People that were sort of born in the Zurb era. Yeah, yeah. With, with all the speculation right now is by itself once an argument to raise rates. Yeah. Even further. Totally. Well, yeah, once the rates spike off of like that 3% jump, like the end of ZIRP, it was like, okay, there will never be froth again. Certainly, certainly tech stocks will never rise. A friend of mine, Blake, made bumper stickers that just said, please God, just one more bubble and God delivered. Okay, so the other story, VC horror stories. This was kicked off by Greg Eisenberg. I didn't realize that he was the one that started this whole thing. He kicked the hornet's nest and everyone came out of the woodwork with their VC horror stories. So he said he had a big discussion about founders bad experience with venture capital and a number of high profile firms. VCs caught strays. Mercour CEO Brendan Foody detailed what he calls the Sequoia scam, which is something interesting we should actually dig into. Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince accused Vinod Khosla of offering to invest in his Series C only if he would fire a few of the people at the pitch meeting who had just left the room momentarily to go to the bathroom. See, there was a separate so Greg Eisenberg I was really crossing wires here because Greg Eisenberg is the one who says, he says I was once pitching in a boardroom at a top three VC firm for a $15 million Series A. That's pretty easy to narrow down. But Anyway, he says 12 people in the meeting, one of the GPS fully fell asleep because some of the top like you know, FF doesn't have 12 GPS and they don't really do partner meetings like this. So for $15 million Series A. So even if you put them in the top three, you can't catch a stray here. Anyway, one of the GPS fully fell asleep, out cold for 30 plus minutes. Nobody acknowledged it. Everyone kept going. Then separately, Matthew Prince okay, founder or an operator falls asleep in the office because they're so tired, because they're grinding so hard and they're a hero. Yeah, this is what Packy said. When Elon falls asleep in the factory, it's no big deal. But when a VC falls asleep, it's the end of the world. We're aware of some static in the ultra dome. Yeah, I think we got a new mic line but I'll try not to touch it and we'll see what happens. So there's lots of chatter about the VC horror stories. Certainly a discussion worth having. You know, you got to keep them in check. But Silicon Valley has always been so high growth and positive sum that relatively good behavior is usually the equilibrium. It's pretty rare that you get a really bad VC because even when a startup fails, investors can't write off the founder entirely because they might start the next generational company and so they might wind up giving on a non VC friendly sort of acqui hire because they're like and help or like help them land a paycheck somewhere, get a job, serve as a good reference, maybe even fund the next product and the next company because they're just like this is an iterated game and we don't want to have you on our bad side forever now. That doesn't mean they can't pass. And so there's basically this wide gap that I'm seeing in these discussions where there's VC pitch horror stories and then VC bored horror stories. And I have much less sympathy for the former. I don't really care about VC pitch horror stories all that much. Because you can just, because, because a lot of founders will have 50 meetings for financing. You would expect at least a couple to just be terrible. Right. The person didn't know who you were, didn't read the materials ahead of time, was rude. And you might want that person show up. You might want a checked out VC who's just going to let you cook. And they're like, yeah, I see this purely financially. My, my, my team crunched the numbers, I'm in. But like you don't count on me to value add. Like I'm not going to be in the weeds with you every day. And then there's a different, there's a different VC who's like, I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to be your back office. The best VCs will not even tell you, oh, I'm going to be grinding for you every day. I'm going to be helping you get. They'll just be accurate. Yeah. They'll just tell you, one of my favorite VCs in the world just says like, I give you money and then I will help you raise more money. Yep. And that's the only thing I'm going to do. And that's fine. And I'm going to be your friend. We'll get dinner now and then. But that, that's what you can expect from me. And that's exactly what he gives founders. And so everyone is like, this guy's great. Yeah. And then there's other, there's other firms that say we'll help you with go to market and they will, there's other people that say we will help you with marketing. And they don't. And you just want to be transparent and accurate there. And so like as a founder, your job is to sell equity from time to time. Your job is to find buyers for that equity. And some companies actually only do that. That's true. They don't actually stock the product occasionally. So your job is to find investors who want to purchase that equity with cash. VCs you need to reference, check them beforehand, make sure they're fed, think through their competitive investments, keep them entertained and awake during the pitch. VCs shouldn't be disrespectful. Like, literally falling asleep is. But this is far from the worst thing that regularly happens in the course of growing a business. Yeah, well, yeah, it's just interesting because one, a bad VC pitch meeting, like you said, really doesn't matter. I don't remember any of them. I'm sure they've happened. No company has died because a VC was, like, rude to them. No matter. And it also happens with customers, right? Totally. Sometimes a customer will just. Oh, sorry, I didn't see the zoom link. No, show the call. Right. Yeah. Not like all customers are. Yeah, yeah. Or like a candidate will be like, hey, I, like, took another role. Yeah, right. And you're like, that doesn't mean the person's evil. It means, like, they're making the right decision. You win some and lose for themselves. So I have a tip. I have a tip for all the entrepreneurs in the audience who are pitching VCs, particularly sleepy VCs, you got to analogize your business to an air horn. So you go to the VCs, the partnership, and you say, like this air horn here. Do we have. You have an air horn like this air horn here. Tyler, grab the air horn with one simple button press. You can do it. You can do it over there. Okay. So like this air horn. My business is like this air horn. My business is like this air horn. Venture capitalist. My business is like this air horn. One simple press. I'll amplify your business a hundred X. Everyone's going to be paying attention because at any moment, you might push this button and let out the loudest noise. So they're not going to be falling asleep. And if you. And if they do, you give them a little bit of this. So loud. It's really so loud. So you got to bring the air horn to the VC pitch meeting. You got to fire it off every once in a while. If you see some sleeves, some droopy eyes, let them know. My business. It's like an air horn. I could push it at any time. 10x your business. 10x. The revenue. John was being a menace this morning. My customers love it. My customers love it. Yeah. The air horn, you can go get. You think I might press it. See, you're not falling asleep at any moment. Yeah, we're all wild moment. I might need to drive home the point that business is like an air horn. And at any moment, it could blast off like a rocket ship. So you got to buy the stock now. You got to invest. You got to get me a term sheet, because at Any moment. At any moment, I could do it. The team's so distracted, they can't even get the right camera on me. Anyway, that's enough of the air horn. We use that randomly from time to time. I love Dylan coming in. We pitch for Figma's seed round in 2013. Most folks, folks didn't get it, but everyone I met was super nice to me. Yeah, it's so funny when you. When you compare. When you compare VCs to the other. Like I said, the other kinds of calls you have. Yeah. VCs are probably like, what, generally nice. Way. Way nicer. Right? Like, a customer is less likely to, like, be overly friendly if they're not interested in what you're selling. Right. They're like, yeah, this, like, doesn't really seem like a. You know, it doesn't really seem like a fit. Yeah, but. Or a regulator. Brendan, talk to any vc, any founder who's dealt with a regulator. Like, look at, like, Brian Armstrong. Has he had any problems with VCs that match up with what he's dealt with on the regulatory side? Those meetings, everyone's asleep and they're like, oh, yeah, like, we'll get you approval in the next decade. And we're trying to. We're actually trying to shut your whole. Yeah, exactly. Like, no, they're falling asleep. But as they're falling asleep, they're like, it's over. It's very rare that a VC is in a meeting with you and actively trying to. Trying to kill your business. Every once in a while, they're like, okay, I'm gonna go fund a competitor because I don't like this founder. And that's just like, the competitive dynamic. You're in the arena. But anyway, Brendan, from her core, former guest and friend of the show, has a bone to pick with everyone. Yeah, he's coming after yc. He's coming after Sequoia. Yes. He says, in the last six months, I've seen half a dozen rounds where Sequoia invests in two tranches. Everyone pretends they only did the higher valuation. Founders misrepresent this to their employees and then shop it to angels, too. Sequoia's blended price, deceptive 50 less than 50% of the one projected. They'll invest at half a billion and a billion. Two tranches. And then the founder will go out and say, we raised 100 million at a billion, when really Sequoia got in at the blended price. Right. Now, that's not illegal. There's nothing wrong with that. And that can make sense for both sides for a variety of reasons. You don't want to misrepresent that, though. If you go and misrepresent that to another investor and you don't tell them the actual structure of the deal, that can be securities from. So that is a major risk. But that's not on the vc. Like, the VC should not go to another investor and say, oh, yeah, we just did the full deal at a billion. They should give that context. But that doesn't seem like it's on the founder in the same way. This is, like, classic. Like, all the crossover funds are doing this. Tons of funds have done this. I mean, also, this isn't some secret. Like, you go back to the original Sequoia YouTube investment memo, and it's trashed and structured. Like, they've been doing this for 25 years. And it's just like, nobody read. Nobody read the manual or something, because, like, if you actually study and no ball, like, you would know that structured investments exist. But at the same time, I don't put it on every employee who's getting stock options and thinking about the heat on a company and every journalist to understand that structure. So there is. There is an impetus and a responsibility. Yeah. Very aggressive and unnecessary to call this a, quote, Sequoia scam, because Brendan also replied to his own Tweet saying just 30 minutes ago, after the post had gone viral, in fairness to Sequoia, this is common practice in the industry. Likes on that one, 1000, brutal on the other one. Brutal. Yeah, yeah. Not super fair to Sequoia at all. I do think it's. I think, yeah, employees. Employees should be aware of this and, you know, maybe ask the companies. Yeah. It doesn't mean that it's not a great company to join. Yeah, it's tough. Anyway, Travis Kalanick said, In 2001, I intercepted a partner at a VC was trying to escape his office before our meeting was supposed to start. I ended up pitching him in his parked Lexus from the passenger seat. At one point, he grabbed my laptop, placed it on his large belly, which was pressed against the steering wheel, and rapidly flipped through the slides himself. 2001 fundraising hit different. I want to know how the story ended. Did he invest or not? Did he pull out his checkbook? Because maybe he was like, you got me, Travis. You know? Anyway, there's a lot of people that are going back and forth. I really. The worst part of this is that over the weekend I was convinced because Matthew Prince talked about Vinod Khosa, who's Coming on the show, by the way. And Matthew Prince is coming on the show. We're very excited to have both same day. The. I was convinced that it was the Node who fell asleep, but it wasn't. That's a different thing. Greg Eisenberg's found VC at one of the top three firms. Could be anybody fell asleep the Node. What Matthew Prince is upset about is that there's something about. He wanted to, you know, redo the team, the founding team. He was like, do you need all these founders? Maybe you need a different team? Which is like. It's a bold statement from a vc. It's like, would you switch up on your day ones first question? And you're like, no, not even your day ones. Your current business partner. Yeah, your current business partner for a new partner. It's sort of a crazy thing. At the same time, sometimes founding teams do go through changes. Sometimes it's the right move. I don't know. It's a little iffy. But Vinod, you know, stands not guilty on the charges of falling asleep. Although I was getting ready to steel man it, because I think, as much as I love Cloudflare and Matthew Prince, some details of content delivery networks might be a little boring. And so it's possible that an older man who's a legend and has done very well investing might fall asleep when he's hearing about the intricacies of delivering content across the Internet. And we actually had a plan to test this theory. Tyler, do you want to take us through it? Yeah. Well, so I was just looking at this. I found a study. Basically, it was. They took a bunch of older men, 66 to 83. This is actually. They put them in a room where it was kind of a slightly dim room. There's not a lot of, like, a lot of VC offices. They're very shady. And they just sat in there and they read them. Cloudflare says one, and they basically tested to see how long would it take them to fall asleep. And so the median was 36.9 minutes. I feel like. Okay, so. So if you've ever. And here's the thing, a pitch usually an hour. Well, sometimes. I mean, if it's an early pitch, early conversation, maybe it's 30 minutes. Maybe if it's going well, it starts to drift over. That's the danger zone. Danger zone. So from a. This is the lesson. This is the lesson for founders. If you have a boring business, if you have a boring business and you're pitching a VC who's an older gentleman, you got to keep the pitch meeting to less than 30 minutes, you got to bring the air horn especially, I think, in that story. It also said the older gentleman was in a Herman Miller chair, which we know are quite comfortable. Those are quite popular in Silicon Valley, too. Compounds the fact. Okay, yeah, I mean, that's an elite sleep set for a nap. That's a lead spot for a nap. The chair was arguably designed for office naps. No one's getting, like, real work done in a Herman Miller. I think so. So, yeah, this one's tough because it's easy to just jump right. I'm in Matthew Prince's camp. Oh, I'm in Vinod Khosla's camp. Also. Vinod didn't fall asleep, so it's all moot. But we know the secret. It's the air horn. Bring the air horn. No one's fallen asleep. Problem solved. Problem solved. Tyler had a good story when. When they were building Divi, they pitched Rajiv Misra and the Softbank Redwood City hq. And then Masa in Tokyo soon after. It was absolute cinema. Popping zins, smoking a vape. Loud coughing to throw us off. Wait, why? Intentional coughing assistance. Whispering in Rajeev's ear. That's a power. That's a power move. You got to respect that for sure. See, that's a post singularity job there, for sure. Come in. Whisper into the person's ear. It's good. Yeah. Some of the most questions ever asked in Tokyo. Masa starts the meeting with. You have 10 minutes. We flew, like, 20 hours. See, that's just a great way to get Power play. Tyler. Sorry, buddy. I think you just. I think that's just a great way to get, like, really get to the meat quickly. I think so. What did TJ have to say? He said the VC meme is very funny if someone's falling asleep, not liking your idea or ghosting you gets you bent out of shape. Ngmi, go spend a day in private equity or try. Competing with an incumbent venture is arguably the most pleasant form of deal making in the world. And I agree. And I agree. So I do like that Vinod says not only did we not fire them, we did not give them an offer to invest based on our assessment of the team, and then just responds with the term sheet. That's actually crazy. Cloudflare up to $100 million. 50 will come from KV series C pre money 700. I like running the calculation. All right. I give it a 5% chance that he posts a term sheet. That would be absolutely insane. Insane only only a post IPO founder that's trying to buy a ski resort ever do something as crazy as that? He forgot to check in. And of course, Matthew Prince doesn't really have anything to lose at this point. Yeah, well, fortunately, we're joined by another public company. CEO Will Marshall from Planet Labs. Planet. Now he's the co founder and CEO. First, I'm going to tell you about MongoDB. What's the only thing faster than the AI market? Your business on MongoDB? Don't just build AI own the data platform that powers it. And without further ado, let's bring in Will Marshall.

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