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Is observable. Right. It's a little bit of Gerhardt's law. Make number go up. Precisely. So that's one thing I'm interested in, but the other thing I'm interested in that I think might be certainly, I think, I think of your audience as being the bullseye of this. Let me get at this from a kind of weird angle. Alfred Chandler is an historian who wrote a book called the Visible Hand about the invention of managerial capitalism in the 19th century. And he said, what happened is the telegraph and the train created enormous information flows that couldn't be managed by 18th century corporations. And so we had to invent this job to manage those information flows. And the name of that job was the middle manager. And so it was the telegraph and the train and the profusion of information that was created by the speed of products moving around the country that created the need for managerial capitalism. In a similar way, I think biometric capital capitalism, as you can think of it, creates the need for individuals to essentially serve as the chief executive of the self. We are faced with all of this data about what we're doing every day, how we're sleeping, how much calories we're burning, what are VO2 max is how much zone 2 time we spent training yesterday. And what role does overseeing all this information cast us in? It cast us in the role of the manager, just like in the 19th century. And so in a way, I think when I say our approach to health is changing things that are, that are, that are, you know, more complicated than just, oh, everyone's talking about health these days. I do think it changes our relationship with the body to essentially assume this role of like the CEO of the self. And finally, and I'll stop it, changes our relationship to leisure too, because typically in a sort of traditional setup, you go to work and you think about being productive and then you leave work and you have downtime. And you don't think about downtime being productive until you can see on your dashboards exactly how you spent that downtime. How did you sleep? How did you. Did you. How much VO2 time did you spend? Excuse me, how much Zone 2 time did you spend during your workout? So suddenly this productivity mindset that used to be contained to work is now leaking into our downtime as well and getting us to think about again, our bodies as this kind of machine that we are, in which we are casting the role of a CEO to optimize. I just think that's like an interesting way that we alive today. I think it's just interesting to think about how our experience of life is different than in previous decades. And I think, I think that these trends in health do make the experience of life different than it used to be. Did you see the Nat Friedman talk where he describes using Open Claw and an AI agent to monitor his.

People, how it changes our relationship to our bodies. So just two observations here. One is that I have an Oura Ring right here. I like it. I think it's improved my health, it's improved my fitness, and it's helped me sleep better. But I also, sometimes I can't help fall into this relationship with my Oura Ring, where I am making decisions about my daily activity to optimize my Oura Ring scores rather than to do things that can't be measured. So if I have a really good time with a friend at 9:30pm that can't be measured in my Oura Ring data, there's no doubt dashboard I can look at on my phone and say, I had a really good time with my friend and he appreciated my presence. But like the Oura Ring will say, you stayed up too late and now your HRV sucks. So I think there's ways in which sometimes these technologies, this sort of biometric dashboard we can build for ourselves, replaces the hard question of how should I live with the easy question of what should I optimize that is observable? Right. It's a little bit of Gerdhart's Law. Make number go up. Precisely. So that's one thing I'm interested in.

But it will be bigger than people anticipate. I think it will be gigantic. Staying in the control tower of the AI, build out the global economy. Where are you focused on outside of your core business in terms of potential bottlenecks? We've been going back and forth on is it fabrication, is it energy, is it permitting powered shells, memory? There's been so many different bottlenecks that have sort of popped up and there's been a lot of excitement. And that feels like an opportunity for America or the world to focus on alleviating a bottleneck when it comes out. You're helping a lot with what you're doing. But what else is top of mind for you as you view the potential bottlenecks to just scaling AI? Those are. You hit on all big ones and they're all, they're all, they're all challenging. Right? I think logic is, is a challenge. Memory is certainly a challenge. All the things that you mentioned, I think it is a fantastic opportunity on the flip side for the United States to be able to invest in manufacturing and support of these infrastructures. I know there's been a lot of backlash, for example, about these giant data centers being built and communities not wanting data centers in their area. And then some people look at the data centers and say, oh, these data centers are so giant and they don't actually employ a lot of workers. They're just giant costcos with whirring motors inside. But I would argue that while that may seem to be true in terms of when the operation is completed, the ecosystem that gets created by building out these data centers is immense. Right. And if you can have the entire supply chain, whether it's again around the motors, the turbines, the air conditioning, the chillers, the chips, if you can, if the United States can put that all in such a way that it's going to be all vertically integrated, that's huge, huge job opportunities for us. You know, I read some of this in an op ed about 71% of folks are, you know, are kind of against the, against data centers. And I was thinking to myself, gosh, this reminds me of almost back when fab, when the US had most of the semiconductor fabs in the world, you know, 30, 40 years ago. And people weren't complaining about fabs per se, but there were a lot of complaints about the chemicals and things of that nature. And then you had labor shortages. And next thing you know, 35 years later, every advanced fab, whether it's memory or whether it's logic, is not inside the United States. And I would say just on these supply shortages which we have now, which are real, I think it's a great opportunity for the United States to really boost up domestic manufacturing and not just, again, like I said, around the data centers, but the ecosystem around it. If you think about the automobile industry, one of the powers that that drove for for the US Industry was the huge supply chain around automobiles that created lots and lots of jobs. I think data centers are similar. Yeah, yeah. It's always been good point. People point to Flint, Michigan, as a place where.

And then for me, that's definitely one. We talked about this interesting phenomenon in AI where with 2020 hindsight, you can look back and see that the ChatGPT moment was a turning point. Claude Code, as you mentioned, reasoning models, there's these unlocks that feel binary in hindsight and they sort of blur together as they're happening. But a couple months later you can see that there's some sort of takeoff. Are you doing, do you have a vision of what we're waiting for for the next one? Or are you more zoomed out, looking at broader trends, sort of straight lines on log graphs? And you see that capability will come as compute scales. I think it's a little bit the latter. I mean, people like to look at the ChatGPT moment or the CLAUDE code moment, and maybe that's mile marker six in a marathon or mile marker eight. But actually what they are is proof points of scaling that the more compute you can apply to the problem, the more sophisticated the level of problem that you can solve. And that's what I think we are seeing on all levels. So I don't think there's another aha moment. You know, people talk about AGI or ASI or things of that nature. I think what you're starting to see is for some of these models, for example, or some of these applications, we, we don't have the data sets and the Internet to solve them. And these are like science problems, right? Engineering problems. Yet using the compute and models to create synthetic data to help you solve these complex engineering problems that you can't find on the Internet, that could be the next thing, if you will. So I don't know that there's another end quote moment ahead of us. I think what we have seen so far is that the law of scaling has not been defied. And the more compute you can apply to these problems and the more power that's required for that and everything around it, we get greater and greater benefits. Can you. I'm interested to hear how AI is changing.

Said the same, that you knew it was coming, but you didn't know if you'd had a chance to work on it in your lifetime. So. Yeah. So it's, it's amazing. Yeah, yeah. Now it's here. Talk to me about how you process the AI boom. There's been a couple of distillations of the progress. You have the chatbots moment, the reasoning moment, the coding agent moment. As each of those moments happened, how did your business change? How did your perception of the AI boom change? And then at what point did you realize that you needed to expand the strategy, change the strategy? How deliberate were you along the last three years, four years, as we've seen these sort of tectonic shifts in the capabilities of AI systems? Yeah. One of the things in our industry that has been almost like a force that you cannot stop is the need for more storage or more memory or more compute. Right. There's just something, whether it's an end application, a new product that just drives that, that need, AI is almost the monster that can eat almost unlimited amount of memory, unlimited amount of storage, and unlimited amount of compute just simply because of the raw amount of computation that's required, the amount of data that's needed, the amount of intelligence that you're generating in the tokens, et cetera, et cetera. So what we've seen over the last just number of years, as everyone in our has, is this sudden huge tailwind of how much is enough. And we don't seem to be hitting that, that point yet. And I was at, I was in Computex a couple of weeks ago and met with, with folks in the industry, and I remember talking to some of the guys at TSMC and they said, we've never seen a cycle where it's this good for this many years. Something's got to change. But we've never quite seen artificial intelligence at the level we're seeing it, and it's still feels very, very early. I know a lot of people say that in the sense of, to your point, the ChatGPT moment, the Claude Code moment, the, the cowork moment, but still there's lots and lots of industries that haven't even scratched the surface. So it's still, amazingly, even given all the tailwinds, still seems very, very early. I can, I can.

Is not trying to determine like one taste, if that makes sense. Yes, yes, yes. I think another thing people are worried about is like the idea of monoculture, which happens in Silicon Valley every once in a while, where someone says, like, serif fonts are tasteful. Sans serif is no longer tasteful, therefore, everyone must use sans serif or vice versa. And we're all like, wait, everything looks the same. This is actually bland. This doesn't feel as rich or tasteful as what you'd see in a thriving community that actually has a ton of culture to it. I'm interested to know, though, about the actual process. Congratulations on the funding round, but how are you thinking about actually imbuing models with taste? How much of this is about data labeling? How much of this is bringing on experts with particular backgrounds? Is this a very high skill ceiling effort where you're finding artists and people with art history backgrounds? Who is the ground truth? Where's the ground truth coming from? Very good question. So I think first on the monoculture piece, I think that's exactly what we're trying to solve. Like the whole problem with sloth is this repetition that you see, right? Every site now looks the same, every slide that looks the same. No one wants that. And so part of what we're doing is building this community of experts that is at the heart of everything that we do. That are a lot of designers, front end engineers, art people that can exactly bring this whole range. I think we don't even as a team, want the company to be a reflection of our own personal preference. I think it's much more how do we map this whole range of preferences that exist and select the best people in the world at this so that they can bring to the table all their opinions and discussions of, like, when is something good, when is something bad? Because also, none of this can really happen in isolation, right? I think, yes. First we have to really raise this floor and figure out what's the minimum bar of quality. But then I think there is this multitude of preferences and that's always going to be the case. So I always think of, like, I always think of in text that.

You should start smoking, right? Because it's going to be sold. Do not start smoking. But yes, it does fit in perfectly with this, like, risk of lung cancer is effectively zero. It also tells you a lot about, like, the whole pitch of, like, AI is going to cure cancer. It's like, people tend to think that, like, AI is going to cure cancer by, like, the prompt being like, what's the cure for cancer? And it's going to give you some, like, E equals MC squared math equation. When really it's like, AI might cure cancer in the sense that a guy gets really rich from AI image generation and then funnels that into a medical technology that can advance screening by a couple months and catch it earlier. So the rate of cancer declines a bunch. But it's not just like, oh, yeah, he prompted it and we got the magic pill. It's much more complicated than that because curing cancer or actually reducing cancer rates is like a process. It's like an industrial process more than it is a, like, one neat trick. And do you remember what happened on March 21, back in 2024? March 21, 2021, 2024, 2024. Oh, was he. Was he posting about this? Yeah, David had tbh.

Do you have chrome? Yeah. Do you know? Did he wear chrome? I don't know. What. What is this? Chrome hearts? But I said, I don't know because I want you to explain. So his whole thing was just like, you know, he doesn't have a master plan. He's like, I like to come to work every day and steer the boat, like, a little bit every day. And this guy was like, you know, again, Munger said, it's the highest IQ person. Smartest person you ever met. And you. And he's just like, I don't have a grand plan. He's just like, I'm just going to come to work and make a little adjustments every single day. I just know I'm going to keep doing this for decade after decade. And I think he ran his company for, like, 25 years or something like that. Fun stuff. We have Jake Paul joining us in just a few minutes. He's running late. Can you hang out for a bit? Yeah, you want me to? Yeah. Hang out, like, till we get off? Yeah, for sure. Sweet. Well, great catching up with you. We got to talk about the Shrek. The Shruck. It's a Shrek themed truck. They did it. Love you. It's breaking on the show. Let's pull up. Can we pull up the Shruk? This is important news. Everyone needs to know. We were talking about the GT3 RS from Porsche that is Buzz Lightyear themed. We were joking about a Shrek themed Ferrari Luce. But it turns out that some entrepreneur, some enterprising young man on Instagram reels, created a Shruk. It's a Shrek themed truck. And we have a video here in the timeline right after the GTA 6 cover art that was revealed earlier today. GTA VI, of course, is releasing November 19, but let's play this video. I don't even need the IEMs. We can hear it. There you go. The Shruck. Do you want to watch Shrek tonight? Absolutely. The Shruck is going strong. See, the ears are what make it green. Truck doesn't do it until you put the ears on there. Look at that. I might need to get one of these. That's a good Malibu Daily. I think you need it just an everywhere daily. Hey, we got Jake Paul. He's here. Come sit down. Jeff. Woo, too. How you doing? Let's run it. What's up? What's up? How are you? Good to see you. Good to see you. What's up, bro? How are you? Good to meet you. Tell us. Tell us the news. You raised a bunch of money, bro. We smack that God. 100 million over. Subscribe. You can do it. You can. Wow. Come on. Great to see you. Good to see you. It's about the fun. Who, who, who do you raise money from? Are. Is there. Are you talking to endowments now? Are these your friends? Is all your money? What's going on there? You're good. Yeah, a lot of, A lot of our own money. We have a 10, maybe even more. It's like 10, 12, 13, 14 GP commit. Getting in the game. Yeah. Our, our lead investors, Aquarian Holdings. So shout out to Rudy and Eric, They've believed in us for a long time. They doubled down into our growth fund and it's been a great relationship with them. And then. Yeah, just like other people that we know in our network. Yeah. Highlights from the. Sorry, I was going to say, like, I think going from more of just investing our own money, I think we are going more institutional. Right. So aquarian, they manage 27 billion plus as an insurance holding company. So I think we're just proving our sophistication as fiduciaries, as investors to be like, hey, endowments institutions, we can compound money faster and better than other VCs can. For you, how is the strategy changing with the new fund? Is it changing? I think like number of checks, check size, ownership, all that good stuff. Yes. Time has gone on. I think the barbell approach for us has been very successful. I think going big with bigger checks into growth stages in companies that we believe in with the best founders. You know, you don't bet against Palmer, Lucky, Elon, Sam, the big names like that, and getting to fast DPI, you know, going into SpaceX and Xai, working with Jared Birchall to get into some of those rounds and then, you know, you're, you're liquid very quickly and so I think that's very attractive. And putting bigger checks into companies like that. And then on Venture one, early stage, you know, and getting in, betting on founders from day one sometimes. And yet taking that more venture approach on that side of things. We've deployed our full Venture one, this is our Growth one, going into Venture two now raising for that and then pretty much fully deployed on Growth one. We've been working on it for the past, you know, eight months, getting into a lot of these big companies and actually going into Growth two already. And so we've just had tons of great access and I think that's obviously the key and just we're hustling and in all the right rooms providing marketing support, consultant support on that side of things, which a lot of these companies need, that's what we've realized. And every room that we go into, whether it's, I mean, I won't say names, but pretty much everyone needs users. Sure. Distribution. You'd be surprised at the level of marketing knowledge that these companies have. It's like day one, very basic. These are the most technical companies in the world. Right. But they're not the best at breaking through to grow their users. And so we've just been able to really help on that side of things. And the most basic 30 minute call about marketing is extremely helpful for these companies. Yeah, take us through. Like what are you actually talking to a tech company that might have their pitch dialed for investors or engineers or even customers once they get them on a call. Customers. But like it's just that whatever story they're telling, it's not resonating with just the normal person. And I feel like you've gone so big with everything that you've done that you've touched every part of America, the world, globally. And you can probably offer more feedback and advice on just like how to tell a story as a company that resonates outside of this tiny little enclave in San Francisco. Yeah, no, correct. I mean I went from vine to then it was YouTube. Then Facebook popped off, then Snapchat was the thing. Me and my brother were the first people making Snapchat stories like a full content. Evan Spiegel invites us out asking us like how we like the app, what could we change in Venice. And then it went, you know, to all these different platforms. TikTok real. So it's been however many years, like 14, 15 years of knowing exactly how to talk to the audience and be relatable and grow brands and my own brands from Better Wish Anti Fund MVP becoming the, the biggest boxing company in the last four years. And so I could do it from a personal side, but I also understand it from a corporate side. And I think a lot of the times, you know, these companies raise all this money, they have a big balance sheet, they're printing cash and they get really corporate with their messaging and they want to create like a 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 million dollar commercial. And I think oftentimes that doesn't reach the audience. And so it's actually just a lot of times telling them to be more relatable and to, to scale down and to tell their story in a easier to understand way. And obviously I'm summarizing and it depends on like what the company is right We've helped companies market, you know, towards engineers because that, you know, there may be just an engineering product. And so it's like, how do we appeal to that side of things? So each case is. Is different, but, yeah, it's just second nature and I think been pretty helpful. Do you remember the first piece of content you ever created? I was born on camera, so my. And I didn't know that until, like, two years ago. My mom's like, look at this footage of you being born. I was like, oh, great. You've never shown me this. What are we doing, mom? Like, you did. This is a great part of the story influencer era, you know? Yeah. The first time, the first platform that you were on, the first series of, the first, like, the first content where you're like, okay, this is. I'm taking this seriously. Yeah, I would say it was Vine. So I downloaded vine the first day it came out. It was promoted through. Through Twitter. I was like, oh, this is super interesting. And I just started making videos in, like, my cafeteria and school and just doing random stuff. I was like, the class clown. I loved making videos. Me and my brother had been on YouTube before that, just messing around, cooking up edits with our. With our video camera and posting it on YouTube. So we were naturally kind of, like, good at making the content. And when vine came out, I thought it was super cool. I got to, like, 40 followers. Everyone in the high school was like, this is hilarious. Your videos are funny. And then me and my brother got into an argument about, like, how to film a video. And I was like, bro, I have more followers than you. Like, shut up. And I had, like, yeah, 40 followers. And he had, like, 20. And I mocked him so hard that day. And that's what. That's actually what changed everything, because the next day. Day, he started, like, putting a ton of effort into his vine videos. And I was watching him. I was like, oh, that was really good. Oh, oh, he's really doing this. And then he got to, like, 80 followers. I was at, like, 80. And then we just kept on putting more effort, and, like, two weeks later, one of the videos that we made went viral. And once we tasted that success, we both gained, like, 5,000 followers. We were like, oh, my gosh, we're famous. Like, this is it. We're the coolest people ever. And once we figured out that recipe of, like, the level it took to make a viral video, we just kept on cranking that level out, and it just. One thing led to another. And once we realized we could make money from it. I got paid like $200 for my first brand deal. And I was landscaping. I had my own landscaping company and I was making $10 an hour and I was like 2, $200 for a six second video. I don't have to be in the hot sun. Exactly. And that was the motivation to just like take it even more serious. Has the nature of the competition between you and your brother changed? Yeah, I think when we were younger, it was like very intense and still there, and we were just like young, and it was actually good because there was no one else to compete with. We were the two biggest vloggers in the world. And so I was. It was inspiration and competition at the same time. And then as we've gotten older, we're just like collaborative now and we're on the same team. Obviously, he's a general partner in Antifund and we work together on a lot of things and everything that he does benefits me and vice versa. And so it's like building out. We're the testosterone Kardashians, essentially. It's just like any given day of the week, you got to see one of our faces somewhere. So the Kardashians have testosterone. How do you think about capacity? You've got a great partner and Jeff with Antifund, but, you know, multiple businesses, it feels like there's always some ceiling. Maybe you haven't found it yet, but. Yeah, where. What's the limit? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, every year I've just continued to compound since I was 16 years old. And I think it's just a testament to scale team having great partners on all different sides of the business. And the best in class, from Gus, the best videographer in the world, to Laura, and all these people around are just top notch. And I think that's. That's been a massive part of it. And then just continuing to, you know, see ahead and know where the ball is going. I think that's one of my best attributes is, is being a visionary and being able to pivot, move, change, adapt, and continue to grow my career that way. But again, I think it just goes back to team. And I'm inspired by people like Elon, where it's like, how do you have, you know, four, five, six of the biggest, some of the biggest companies in the world? I mean, obviously he's a machine. And I don't stop. I work all the time around the clock. And it's like, even if I'm doing something fun, I'm filming it. To be posted as content. So, like, it's just non stop grinding for the past 14 years. And I just love hard work. What's the future of boxing in America? Yeah, that's an interesting category because it's not. You're going up against, you know, the biggest, the biggest names, the biggest balance sheets in the world competing over a market that historically hasn't been a monopoly, but maybe is, you know, there are some efforts to try to create a monopoly in that space. Yeah, it's not going to work. You know, I think so many people have tried to take over the sport of boxing and it's just too diversified. Too many sanctioning bodies with the belts, too many fighters and promoters and managers involved. And it's a sport that is always going to be, you know, scattered across the board. And I think our strategy on that was essentially, we're the WNBA of boxing because we've cornered a market in women's boxing and believed in Amanda Serrano since day one. And that was really the test case to say, okay, we can make a woman a massive star and take her from making $500 a fight to $5 million a fight. And no one is pushing women's boxing. They deserve to be pushed. Their fights are arguably more entertaining, especially than Floyd Mayweather, for sure, without a doubt. And we saw that and we were like, all right, let's go after women's boxing because it's, it's untapped. And now we have, you know, seven out of the 10, pound for pound, best women fighters and 40 overall, some of the best up and coming talent. And that's where we found a little bit of a niche as well as being the leaders of working with Netflix. I think pay per view, there's so much piracy and so many issues with that. And so I was the first one to be like, all right, there was the TV era of boxing, then there was the pay per view era. And then I was like, now we're in the streaming era. And so realizing that we had to pivot the business model to be accessible, where it's like, if you have Netflix or one of these subscriptions, you're not going to want, you don't care. You're going to, you're going to pay the $7 a month or $10 a month or whatever it is now, and getting distribution that way, obviously, I'll probably still do pay per view fights here and there, but we're definitely moving into the streaming era of boxing. How do you think the Tyson fight broke Netflix? Right. Did Right. Literally. For such a storied engineering team over there for decades, how do you. How have you approached negotiating with, you know, platforms like a Netflix? Like, what does your team look like for that? Yeah, so my, my business partner and most valuable promotions, Nikki Savedarian is one of the best negotiators in the world, but he was. Was the CFO at UFC when they sold to Endeavor, and he helped lead the sale and was a pertinent part of their organization for many years. So you think Dana took that personally? Oh, yeah. That's a whole big part of the beef. It's not just me. It's the fact that, yeah, Nikisa and I have teamed up together. Um, so, yeah, definitely a sore subject for, for Dana. And yeah, I think it's just having the relationships and making the right fights at the right moments. And we've also, you know, put on amazing events and have great relationships with so many fighters. And so we're able to pull together the Ronda Rouseys, the Francis Ngannous, the Nate Diaz's, the. The Mike Perrys, because we've always been fighter first, so people love working with us. We came into the world that was. I say it was like Taxi and we're uber in the fight world. The way we run things is like a startup professional treating fighters right. We're on time, we're pay, you know, instantly. All these little details, production, fighter kits, helping them, instant communication, social media tips, the list goes on. These things are all like super basic to me and Nikisa, but in the fighting world, it's like fighters will fight and then like, not get paid for like a year. And the. Just like there's so many issues in the sport. So just by running it like a proper SF startup, we've. Amongst many other things, but we. That's where the. Why we've been able to become the number one promoter in the sport in four years when a lot of these other people have been doing it for 30, 40, 50 years. I mean, Bob Arum, I don't even know. That guy's like 100 years old. He probably was alive when the T. Rexes were running around. So it's like just these small little changes are why we've risen to the top. How do you think the results of America 250 are going to impact the UFC on. On one hand, the Gaethje story of, you know, coming back from this, you know, really brutal knockout a couple years ago to then, you know, getting. Getting the belt is amazing, but at the same time, in the process, he Took out, you know, rising global superstar. And so I can make an argument that it's good or bad for the ufc, but I'm wondering how you processed it. Yeah, look, I think the event overall was great and great for fight sports in general, and it was such an entertaining show. So I think overall for all of mma, it's a net positive. And I think it just depends how Aaliyah comes back. Right? I mean, I think Conor McGregor has lost so many times, but his brand has, you know, stayed up there because he just keeps on fighting, he keeps on coming back, he keeps on trying. And so I think it's up to illy on that one. But, yeah, Justin Gai is like overnight superstar, legend, and we'll see, you know, how far he can go from here at. At his older age. But overall, what's the mindset of a Of. Of fighter that's rising, you know, through the ranks? When you have a fight like Ilia just had, you're taking damage that's going to probably stay with you in some capacity forever. Are fighters, like, pretty acutely aware that at any point you could take a beating that, like, you, makes it a lot harder to come back from? I'm sure you've gone through. Yeah, look, I think they're definitely aware of it. I think the thing is, is that they're just addicted to the sport and it's really all they know and they're willing to sacrifice for that thrill and for that entertainment, for the love of the game. So I don't think they necessarily care. And, you know, that going into the sport, that it's. That it's brutal and tough and rough on the body and it's going to affect your health potentially in the long run. I think people deal with the effects of injuries differently, but to each their own, and I think a lot of fighters know what they're signing up for. How did you process the enhanced games? I always thought it was dumb. Yeah, from day one. Why? Why? It sounds like a good idea. You take something, Olympics is entertaining. You add steroids fueled with the fire like, this is Jordy's. It's the best people in the world. Like, you could take something, but the best people in the world are the ones who are the most dedicated to it for 20 years straight. So there's no replicating that 20 year dedication just because, yeah, you take somebody that's like fifth best in the world, which seems not that far away from number one, and you give them all the pds, but the gap between five and. And Gold is actually so big that it, you can give them again, give him a horse worth of testosterone and it's not going to make up the difference. Yeah, no. And again, I believe that's what happened. I didn't watch it. I saw some clip outs, but I heard the production was, was bad and that no one beat any records. And I think till the very end there was some, but there was some like people who weren't on PDS that beat the runners. I don't know, but my fiance is Olympic gold medalist and she was like, I, if anyone, she just won in Milan and she was like, if anyone tried to like, do the Enhanced Games to beat her, like, she was like, no one's beating me still. So. Well, what about more broadly? Health? Maxing looks, maxing peptides. Do you have a take on the current trend? Yeah, look, I think it's amazing, right? Like you see today, you know, they just launched the new imaging. Yeah, Midjourney. Yeah, Mid journey. It's like the world we're living in is so exciting. And I've told my friends, you know, we met, we were in SF with the Merge Labs guys and Alex Melania was like, yeah, we're all going to live forever. Like, we're just gonna like transfer our mind into some robotic body. And so I think this whole, like, health. Do you believe it? Yeah, a thousand percent. Yeah, 100%. Do you think that'll be good for the fight game? Because I feel like there's a lot of insane athletes out there that would be incredible fighters, but they're just not willing to take that level, to make the sacrifice to take that level of damage. And if we can solve, you know, CTE and, you know, some of these other things, it could actually make the, the most violent sports. I don't think so. I think if someone's like, afraid of getting hit in the first place, they're not going to be a good fighter when, like, even if they transfer into a robotic body. But also, I don't think it'd be entertaining. I think like, I'm, I'm very, you know, long on traditional human sports in terms of a business model, because the story is what matters and everyone's on the same playing field. So when you put in like robots and all these perks and extra things and blah, blah, blah, I don't think people will enjoy it as much. What's your timeline to a humanoid being able to beat you in boxing? I'm sure very soon. I mean, bro, if I'm going up against a Metal robot. Like I'd probably lose so. I know but, but, but speed, speed matters Will the human spirit. Human spirit. You're long human spirit. Yeah. I think it can be able to do something. There's no spirit. They just don't even feel the pain. It's just like straight up robot. Yeah, it's like iRobot in real life. Yeah, it's happening right now. What about on the investing side? How much of your current thinking is like software only Singularity invest in the token path versus stuff like bio, health, defense tech, hardware, robotics, all the next gen stuff that's maybe not product market fit. Not billion dollar arrs yet but interesting. Yeah, I think it's really both. Right, so we're pretty AI maxis here. So we're in OpenAI and then going down that stack. Right. So you go down the inference providers like the modals and then you go to semiconductors or an etched which is an inference asic. Hello Verged. We just did Helion which is a fusion company. So I think in some sense I think that software game is going to be won by an OpenAI anthropic SpaceX, Google maybe about cognition and some of these like power law is being realized. Yeah. Because I think there's just so much capital for just all the compute. All the models are getting bigger and bigger. So I think, I mean partly we're here to just visit El Segundo as well. Right. Show. So I think it is like defense tech, robotics, manufacturing. I think getting to atoms is more and more important. Yeah. Going forward. And then secondly I think biocross AI is also very, very new. I think we're just texting with Sam Altman. He's like yeah, we're like it's still really early. Like he wasn't like hey, there's like obvious. Yeah like winners there yet. So I think in terms of like finding that next wave, I think that will be robotics hardware bio. What about celebrity brands? What's your framework for a successful celebrity brand? Yeah, I mean I think we're not as excited around those often. I think it has to leave it to me, buddy. Yeah, exactly. And yeah I think it's. Unless it's like the Kardashians or someone at that level, then it's you know, very difficult. So we've been way more selective and then you know there's just way more upside on the, on the tech and software side of things versus like cpg and that's where we're spending our time. Right. We're, we're fiduciary so at the end of the day, and for our own money. So at the end of the day, it's like, where's. Where's time best spent? And that's. That's really how we think about it. I think to me, like, celeb is just like a solve for distribution. But I like. But I think, but it's not a full solve because distribution is a flywheel. It's a half solve for distribution. Distribution is not. Is not. Convert a million people over to this one time. Yes. It's. How are you going to continue to grow? And hence, like, I think product is actually most important. I think choosing the right market and the right product is everything. Distribution is just gasoline on the fire. And then I think, second, I think Jake is actually very special as a celeb entrepreneur. Right. Like, his story of just like, you know, being a landscaper. Right. Like, I think a lot of celebrity folks that we've crossed paths with. Right. They were really good at singing or dancing or playing a ball sport since they're like, 13. Yeah. So they never actually had to, like, actually, like, hustle their first brand deal, actually think about business. Yeah. Tell a story. Or. They're well known, but they don't have an owned audience. Right? Correct. Like, it's very different. Like somebody that's posted every single day for 15 years to launch. I think that's why, like, NFL players are very hard to cross over because, like, one, their face is not even recognizable because they're in helmets all the time. And then two, the NFL owns their distribution. Right. Like, NFL is their distribution channel. They don't have an audience that they're used to speaking towards on a daily basis. So I think the Internet generation folks are interesting because they own that distribution. And I think I'm lucky to work with Jake because I think Jake has the hybrid of both. Right. Like, he's mainstreamed on the Netflix platforms as a professional athlete and has a respect of actually being good at a craft and an art and a sport. Plus, he comes with like a, what, like 200 million followers across different channels. So I think that's where it's like an experiment for us, where it's like, okay, we have a touch into mainstream, a touch into Internet, and I think there's also like a hardcore capitalism, like, heart that we're like, hey, how do we monetize the opportunity set? Are haters a source of strength? We were talking to Alex Karp about this. He says all the AI leaders have only haters, no fans, and he was saying, I at least have fans. I have a lot of haters and I have fans Are haters aside, source of strength in the fullness of time, are you glad you have both Fans and haters? Yeah. 100. You know, I don't think anyone who does good things in this world or big things in this world doesn't have haters. I mean, it's the, it's the day one story. And I honestly, you know, since day one, when I first went viral, the video I was talking about, like, I instantiated. Yeah. Instantly people in my school started hating. So, like, I don't even. I don't even remember life without. Yeah, your mom, you know, took that video when you were born. I'm sure some of the nurses were like, yeah, this kid. They're like, oh, fuck this guy. Yeah, yeah. No, you have to have it. And you know, good news travels fast, bad news travels faster, and the, the haters actually will talk about you more and say bad things, but at the end of the day, people don't really remember what was said. They just remember your name and your face and so you could do with that what you want. And you know, it's really. They're adding to the algorithm at the end of the day, so it's really just math. And if you just have fans that are saying things, you know, let's say that's 10,000 people. But add 10,000 haters in there, now 20,000 people are talking about you. And it just adds to clicks, views, talk, trending. So that's the way I've always looked at it. And yeah, the. The biggest and best people in the world all are also the. The most hated Ferrari. Luce has a lot of haters. Will you be getting one? Say it again. The Ferrari Lucha. Oh, new electric vehicle Ferrari. You got to be careful because if you want any of those Halo cars, you know this is gonna be permanent. I want to say, I know you might want an F80 at some point. You gotta be really. Just want you to be really careful with this. This is a political answer. No comment. Okay. No. That shit's ass. No comment. No comment. No comment. It's a lot of fun. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, congrats on the new fun. Have fun down in El Segundo. Hopefully give our best to everyone it the South Bay. I'm sure you guys are going to be spending a lot of time there post SpaceX IPO. It's just going to be more and more action. Let me close out by telling everyone about the New York Stock Exchange. Want to change the world? Raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange. We were off for a couple of days. We'll see you back at 11. Isn't next week is an IPO like on the can happen on the we got some ideas of things. We're cooking dog. We're cooking Flashbang out. Leave us five stars on Apple, podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for a newsletter tvpn.com and thank you for tuning in today. Goodbye. Nice.

Like, till we. Till we get off. Yeah, for sure. Sweet. Well, great catching up with you. We got to talk about the Shrek. The Shrek. It's a Shrek themed truck. They did it. Love you. It's breaking. Cover it on the show. Let's pull up. Can we pull up the Shruck? This is important news. Everyone needs to know. We were talking about the GT3 RS from Porsche that is Buzz Lightyear themed. We were joking about a Shrek themed Ferrari Luce, but it turns out that some entrepreneur, some enterprising young man on Instagram reels, created a Shrek. It's a Shrek themed truck. And we have a video here in the timeline right after the GTA 6 cover art that was revealed earlier today. GTA 6, of course, is releasing November 19, but let's play this video. I don't even need the IEMs. We can hear it. There's. There you go. The Shruck. Do you want to watch Shrek tonight? Absolutely. The Shruck is going strong. See, the ears are what make it green. Truck doesn't do it until you put the ears on there. Look at that. I might need to get one of these. That's a good Malibu Daily. I think you need it just an everywhere Daily.

Brent Zerver on X Antibology. Great account says the obvious next step once you have a full body ultrasound scanner is to use the ultrasound to do useful things to the body. Delete tissues, make cells, divide, reprogram cells, read plus write. If you're an engineer interested in solving the right side of sci fi medical devices, we're building this and hiring. Well, let's go through some more of the reactions. Midjourney. Launching an ultrasound scanner is such a clear example of freedom enjoyed by bootstrap companies that VC backed companies have. Only time will tell if it's the right bet. But such bold bets require ownership and a kind of devil may care attitude. That's somewhat true, but the counter to all that is like the Elon Musk projects and and a variety of founders and specs. But also, you know, like Sam Altman has done this too where it's like, okay, there's a new idea, get a new team, fund it and it's on the side. Like there are, there are a variety of entrepreneurs that are playing the VC game, marshaling capital and then have the permission to work on crazy stuff like a mass driver on the moon, et cetera. But in general I agree with this point that a lot of founders get locked in a VC loop of you gotta raise money every 18 months, you gotta hit the core KPI, you don't have the time or cash flow because you're win, win, win, fight, fight, fight. And it's very, very interesting. And such a narrative violation that midjourney has become such a machine for financially in people would say it's a commodity market, people would say it's a highly competitive market. You're going up against Google, you're with Nanobanana, you're going up against OpenAI. And yet Midjourney has carved out a fantastic community, a fantastic user base, fantastic business model and it's really, I don't know, it's a testament to something. It's just awesome. I don't know what else to say. But not everyone loves it. They're quoting Kanye West. I like David Hull's AI art tool, but what does he know about medical equipment? He knows about this because of Leap Motion. Like just say you don't studied history. Also very important. He's partnered with Butterfly Network, which is a public company that is of course up almost 50% today. Really? Wow. They're providing quick history on Butterfly. Let's see, started in 2011 by Dr. Jonathan Rothberg and yeah, fast forward to 2021. They were spake and Then they've kind of just kind of floundered a little bit in the public market since then, but have clearly developed some pretty impressive technology. And so interesting way to combine Midjourney's and David Hull's vision with technology that's been in development for a long time. Yeah. Oh, this is interesting. Calling back to Rune says the vaguely PBS kids inspirational tone, that new AI release video take has stopped being appropriate. I think this is no longer like Carl Sagan explaining the rings of Saturn. There's something more dark techno Promethean about it. Faustian even needs a 1o tricks Loptian score. I don't know how to pronounce that Pshur. He's for sale. Rivers is saying Midjourney is the first AI lab to score their release with something beautiful and so much more incredibly beautiful song from Max Cooper. I would guess people underestimate how much it stirs their soul. It certainly rose your emotions. You were excited by it. People were very, very positive. Hank Green offered some context on other initiatives in Whole body ultrasounds. We don't have time to read through all of it, but it's in the newsletter as well. If you want to check that out tbpn.com we link to it. You can go check it out. Paula says, okay, mid journey now make my spine more studio Ghibli. I'm down. I'm down. Giblify the human form. Yeah. I think one of my main takeaways is like, okay, now we have this new method. Ideally you can find cancers much faster. Right. If you're going to this thing every week or so, you can find cancers earlier. So then how do you react to this? Well, now we have go long housing because if the boomers don't die, they won't pass it down. Well, yes, but also we have this joke like, oh, you're not AGI pilled if you're not smoking every day, right? Yeah, yeah. So it's like this is like very. This is like great evidence. Like, yeah, you should start smoking now. You should start smoking. Right? Because it's smoking. Do not start smoking. But yes, it does fit in perfectly with this. Like, risk of lung cancer is effectively zero. It also tells you a lot about like the whole pitch of like, AI is going to cure cancer. It's like people tend to think that like, AI is going to cure cancer by like the prompt being like, what's the cure for cancer? And it's going to give you some like E equals MC squared math equation when really it's like AI might cure cancer in the sense that, like, a guy gets really rich from AI image generation and then funnels that into a medical technology that can advance screening by a couple months and catch it earlier. So the rate of cancer declines a bunch. But it's not just like, oh, yeah, he prompted it and we got the magic pill. It's much more complicated than that because curing cancer or actually reducing cancer rates is like a process. It's like an industrial process more than it is a, like, one neat trick. And do you remember what happened on March 21st back in 2024? March 21st, 2021. 2024. 2024. Oh, was he, was he posting about this? Yeah, David, tbh. I want to open up a medical imaging division at Mid Journey to work on stuff like this. That's so cool. Call the shot. And here it is. Very exciting. Anyway.

Anyway, a bunch of other funny things happening at the G7. Apparently, Donald Trump had to ask Sam Altman how to adjust his chair up and down, how to use the chair. And that's gotta hurt because you're Sam Altman. You've spent billions, tens of billions of dollars, years of your life, a decade of your life, building a machine that can answer this exact question, almost any question. You take a picture of the chair, tells you how exactly to operate it. So to do that right in his face. Right in his face. Just completely reject the premise. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, on the tip of the tongue, he's like, actually, like, this is a great opportunity to use ChatGPT. You can use images, upload a photo of that chair. It can go and agentically pull the actual diagrams, the manual from that chair. Go to the website. It's chair super intelligence, Mr. President. And Mr. President is just not interested. He's just like, I'm going with a human on this one. And that's why diffusion takes so long. That's why we're in the slow takeoff anyway.

In other news, Riley Walls did it. He did the unthinkable. He bought a street in San Francisco and auctioned it off. And notion bought it. Now the notion way is officially born. I'm so happy that notion won this. It could have been some crypto thing. It could have gone so odd. It's like high risk. Whenever you turn something loose like this on the Internet, it can go a bunch of different ways. Notion way is not something that I think would be annoyed. I personally wouldn't be annoyed if, like a street corner in my neighborhood was notion way. It is an ad, but it's. You certainly wouldn't be annoyed. I would love it, but it's just a term that feels like. It could just be a street name. Not something that just feels totally like an ad, like with a dot com in there or something. So fantastic. Yeah. I remember when. Perfect execution from Riley Walls. I remember talking with him about this idea for the first time. Absolutely loved it. We told him, like, we painted the street too. We told him that we'd backstop it. Yeah. Basically, like, if no one bid on it, then. Then we. Yeah, we were like, we're good for like a thousand bucks or something like that. No, I think it was like, I think maybe 10k or whatever the cost was. I remember it was like 20 something. But we were like, well, we'll backstop it. We'll be like the buyer of last resort if you need that. Winning bid wasn't 40k very.

What did Noam Shazir see? What did he see? Because Noam Shazir, the legendary AI researcher formerly of DeepMind has joined OpenAI. Very exciting news for Gnome and OpenAI, he says. I'm excited to share that I'll be joining OpenAI and look forward to working with the exceptional team there. It was a difficult decision to move on. I'm incredibly proud of the amazing team at Google and everything we've built together. It has been an honor and a pleasure to work with all of you. Everyone is very, very excited about and Yaxin wild move. Interesting details here, he says Noam Shazir, 6, 4. I don't know, just getting right to the important stuff. But I like that we're apocryphally building up our our heroes. Yeah. Remember the Metis list? Numbers 1 on the list. You remember the Metis list which we released summer of last year during the height of the talent wars. Co Author of number one former T5 switch transformer papers, one of the pioneers of sparse moe models. Leaving his VP of Engineering Gemini Co lead role at Google DeepMind to join OpenAI. Lisan Al Gaib says this is likely the most significant AI talent move of the year. It makes you wonder what's going on at Google. Only matched by the next day. Dean Ball joins OpenAI. Tyler, you've been at Ball nower for a long time. We've had him on the show multiple times. We love Dean and he's been in the complete opposite camp. He's not an AI researcher. He's policy a lot of experience there and had a really even keel I think on a lot of the analyses of should something be. I think the main thing is he really cares about getting this right as a country. Totally right. And he's been critical of almost every company in space but only again because he cares. What does Jim Cramer think about these moves? Yeah, he posted at 3am this morning Noam Shazir top AI thinker goes to AI from Google. Big win for AI and drop the oddly open just AI. It's cleaner, it's cleaner. There's closed source models anyway, just call it the AI company I guess, you know.