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Like, why was this any different? From my perspective, this looks just like any other sport on tv. It looks like something you watch and sports and. Yeah. You root for somebody and you pick a team. Yeah. So first of all, you know, this company went public before they had ever hosted an event. Right. So. And we've been hearing about it for years. I said to you this morning, it feels like we've been hearing about this for, like, eight years. You said it's more like maybe two years or something that it's even being talked about. But anyways, a lot of anticipation. People have been super excited about this. The entire concept, I think, is just really cool and wild. Right. You take something that. Like the Olympics, which even if you're not obsessed with swimming or weightlifting or running or any of these things, like, the Olympics are always, like, an exciting cultural moment. And I think I personally have a bunch of fond memories watching the Olympics. So take something that I generally think is very cool, and you add steroids. That's a very fun idea. Should be jet fuel. Jet fuel should enhance the experience. And then as soon as I started watching, there's a bunch of stuff I would give them a pass on, like, the production value, putting on an event for the first time. It didn't feel like you were watching the Olympics. It felt like you were watching, like, someone's first attempt at hosting an Olympics. There weren't those, like, crazy, like, drone cameras following things ultra slow mo. Yeah, they were. They were trying to do stuff. But again, the people doing commentary have never done it before. You know, the whole event is, you know, just being birthed. Right. So it had an insane amount of attention on it for first event, which is always tough. But then watching it, I realized, like, the appeal, like, none of these. None of these events. Like, you can't just watch somebody run in a race and know whether or not they're breaking a record. Like, you can see, like, oh, that person's quite fast, but unless there's, like, crazy graphics. Yeah. You have, like, an overlay of Usain Bolt of, like, the official. Yeah, yeah. So it's never about. It's never about, like, exactly how fast someone was. Right. Because, sure, there's records involved, but the difference. You can't noticeably see whether somebody lifted 220kg or 220.1. It's not visible to the eye. Right. And so what became really obvious to me instantly was, like, the appeal of the Olympics is you have these very niche activities where athletes dedicate their entire life to this pursuit, and then Every four years there's like a five minute period where they're getting the entire world's attention and they're representing their country, country and they're going for glory. And they either do it or they don't. They get the gold medal or they don't. You know, whether even getting a silver medal is like agony. Right. Because like you just dedicated your whole life to this thing and you're in second place. And so it really is about it really. It just stuck out to me immediately that it's about, you know, national pride, representing your country, you know, true excellence. Right. And in watching this, there was none, none of that they were trying to do to basically build up the brands of the athletes ahead of time. But there was just like. No, I didn't feel like bought into any of the storylines. These are a bunch of athletes that were formerly Olympic athletes and some of them had done quite well that are now basically opting into just a for profit. Like the Olympics are not about making money. The Enhanced Games were about, sure, it was about the athleticism. Athleticism. But a lot of it was just like a payday. Right. And so like there wasn't the same. I didn't feel. Basically we turned it on and then we walked outside and we just made a fire and like hung out and it was like really far in the distance. And we eventually came back, came back for the very end, not realizing that no records have been broken until the moment, entire night until the last event. Last event. And then you watch the event. And I think what would have been made it more interesting like a horse race because is like if you had like an actual overlay of the person swimming, the actual record, like you, they left a lane open or something like that and you could have seen the person. I mean it was one hundredths of a second. Yeah. So it was really, really tight. Would have been neck and neck. And so, yeah, so anyways, it wasn't. It didn't like capture me. I think that it's something entirely different than the Olympics. I think it's a very clever way to market generic, generic supplements. Right. If you go on enhance.com Right now, we don't have an affiliation, of course, but you can just get testosterone and a bunch of different products. But yeah, to me you also came away being like the human spirit is way more powerful than any ped. Just like dedicating your life to something for decades and being absolutely obsessed and representing your country is more powerful than being able to do whatever performance enhancing drug. So major white pill for humanity. Yeah. Actually somewhat related to Pope Leo XIV's new letter, Magnifica Humanitas, which we will talk about with our next guest.

To get it done together. I think that alliance is going to be far more powerful than what we currently teach. The way we teach leadership today, which is this very zero sum game thing. What was called shareholder primacy is really the idea that companies should treat their employees and their customers like a resource to be mined. One of my favorite quotes in the book is, you'll indulge me. There's a Wall street analyst that was criticizing Costco. He said something like, costco takes money that rightfully belongs to shareholders and instead invested in improving the customer experience. That's supposed to be a criticism like, what are we doing here? That's how you get $50. My favorite bit in here from Costco is I'd heard this quote before. I thought it was just a meme, but from Costco CEO Jim, is it Senegal? Senegal. Senegal. Yeah, Senegal. If you raise the effing hot dog price, I will kill you. Figure it out. To then CEO Craig Jeline in 2008. I've seen that quote before. I thought it was just a joke, but I guess he actually said it, which is remarkable. He actually said it and in fact, he said that. And another quote, which is, he said that if Costco raised the price of a dollar bottle of ketchup by 3 cents, they would sell the exact same number of ketchup rather no one would notice. They did that across the whole store. 3% across the board. Raising prices. They would increase their net income by 50% and not lose any sales. Yeah. So why don't they? He says it's like the business equivalent of taking heroin. You do it once and then you got to do it again and again and again. Next thing you know, you're not the no price leader. Low prices are the. Are the easy way. Now, that quote and the long term, hard to source. Yeah. There are memes online and I was like, so worried that I was going to quote him incorrectly that I actually contacted Costco PR and they put me on the phone. I was so nice to them. They put me on the phone with them. I was like, is it. Is this really true? Did this really happened it to me? He confirmed it to me personally. So, yeah, I think this, like, very distinctive countercultural way that they have run that company now for 40 years, the $50 hot dog and everything. Like, what's interesting to me is when I tell people that story about the hot dog, nobody ever says, like, how come the COO was trying to raise the price? Because of course, he was like, we've all been trained that if you can get away with screwing people over. You always do it. No matter what you raise. Margins, margins are a source of strength. But Costco, I think, built on a very different philosophy, which is that margins can be a source of weakness. Jeff Bezos understood it. He used to always say, your margin is my opportunity. So when you are too. You're making too much money, when you are being too extractive, you're actually harming your competitive position in the long run. And the fact that we're consistently incentivizing that all across our economy is, I think, a bit of a travesty. There was a recent story. Everlane was acquired by Sheen, Everlane.

The financial engineering recedes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who owns what accounts? Yeah, I got into, I originally got into all this from studying Toyota. Remember lean startup comes from lean manufacturing. Yep. And it's really funny, I can remember when I first was going around just like when we met 2012 talking about lean startup, people would sometimes be like, hey, you're telling us to create the next Toyota, but you're also taking up telling us to build a venture backed company and take it public. Yeah, like wtf? Like I thought the public markets are super short term, but if you read any books about Toyota, they're super long term. So I actually like spent a lot of time on that question of like, have we just grandfathered Toyota into the modern economy? But even when I was in Japan, I remember people talking to me about how we don't even create them anymore. Yeah. Like we have these legacy companies that have this really unique cool structure that are kind of a hybrid of public and family run. Like it's a little bit in between both. I think if you look at the data, these structures only work if the company in question has a really strong ethos to accomplish something other than making money. That really is like, that's what you see. Like that's what unites everybody from like these like really progressive companies we've been talking about to Elon to everybody. If you have a larger vision that is long term in nature, that is like trying to, to whether, whether something really lofty like I want to fix climate change or I want to go multi planetary or something really simple like I just want to create high quality products no matter what it is. If you have that vision, you are a business revolutionary, whether you know it or not, whether you admit it or not. Because the economic system we have has been designed to destroy these companies, to suck the marrow out of them because they're too weak to stand up for themselves. So if you look at the historical examples where they're talking about Mondragon or the Koretsu or all these different structures, like they're only good if the thing they're protecting is good. So the question for me is like as founders, as investors, as leaders, as board members, like how can we create more and more and more of these companies that have a role term mission that are what I call mission driven, not just like mission hopeful. And when you do that you see this like really counterintuitive economic benefits that you get. So it's like you also get moral and ethical benefits too, you know, like, but that's not even really the reason to do it. You can do it just on the basis of the economic argument alone. Do you think that AI will force companies where it was otherwise maybe too late to maybe over time?

Pressure. And when you put those two things together, we can create what I call mission controlled companies that cannot be corrupted by this temptation. Yeah. There's a bunch of different things that I want to click through to interrogate that. The first is probably quarterly results, quarterly earnings. I've seen proposals to go to every six months reporting. And it seems like, okay, that would align public companies with like the CEO could think for six months instead of three months, take bigger risks and think longer term. That feels very good. At the same time, it feels like the rug that you sweep things under is potentially just getting bigger, twice as large. Or the closet where you hide the bodies is getting twice as big. And I'm wondering, is there a tension there? Am I wrong to think that there's a tension there? Because a lot of like I think about problems in the public markets with long term value creation, long term alignment. But then I also think about the, the transparency that comes with being public, the regulation that comes with being public, the access to public investors, retail investors that can participate in a company before it's a trillion dollars if it's going to be a great company. So how are you dealing with those tensions? If there are tensions? Yeah. Okay, first of all, the tension is completely real. And no is long term stock exchange, the company that I founded is the one who filed the petition last year to the SEC to switch from quarterly to semi. You're the one. Obviously I have a strong you about it. Yeah. Oh, Dale did. Exactly. So. And what's funny about it is. Okay, so first of all, we have to understand the scale of the problem. You're not going to believe this, but we have, by the way, Sorry, sorry, before we continue, you should have named it like, you know, Eric's, Eric's Law or something like that. You're not getting enough credit. You're not getting enough credit for this. That's listen the memes and everything. That's your department. Okay. So. Okay. But you've got to understand the magnitude of this problem is insane. Yeah. If you look at other countries as these natural experiments where certain countries have, have switched from semiannual to quarterly reporting or vice versa, and they happen to do it in such a way that not every company change at the same time. And it was random who did which. So we actually know the valuation consequences of quarterly reporting and it's roughly a 5% loss of total equity value. Wow. Companies are 5% less valuable when they report quarterly than semiannual. So the academic research on this is pretty good. And the magnitude of the cost. We're talking about so much, so many billions of dollars of lost value. It's not because the like, you know, effort to do a quarterly report is expensive, although it is expensive and annoying. Rather, when people report quarterly, they start to run the company for the quarterly report. So companies no longer make products, they start to view the quarterly report as the product. Which means they're basically meme factories. What do I have to do to generate the report that will get me what I want? Now getting rid of quarterly reporting just by itself I don't think is a very good idea. And we'll see what the SEC ultimately decides to do. I think we should replace quarterly reporting with a better, like more fulsome disclosure project where long term investors can actually find out what the F is going on at the companies they invest in. Where today companies are strongly incentivized to give out as little information as possible. But that's kind of broken the partnership we need between long term companies and long term investors. That's of course part of why we recreated the exchange in the first place. Yeah, talk about public benefit corporations and how incentive alignment might play out like in the longer term when there is.

By. Well, we have some words of wisdom to end on. You can lead a horse to Baja, but you can't make it blast. These are wise words. Make sure. I'm angry that we didn't think of that. We've talked a lot about Baja blasting. If you're in a code red, when you finish the code red, you got a Baja blast. You got to make sure that that part leaks out. But we never thought of. You can lead a horse to Baja, but you can't make a blast. Also, Michael Timms ran into some problems here. He said he's been trying the whole 2 grams of creatine per 1 pound of body weight thing for a month now, and he's never felt worse. How do you guys do it? It's also like $1,000 a week of creatine. Hilarious. Also, it's supposed to be. What is it? One gram per body. Per pound of body weight for protein, I think is the. The joke. But 2 grams of creatine. What's a normal creatine dose? 5 grams, right? 5 grams a day. Maybe 10 grams a day. About 1 100th of what he was doing in this joke. Of course. Anyway, anything else we need to. We will be off tomorrow and Thursday. We have a short week. We'll be back on Friday. We are heading to New York for some business trips. I asked chatgpt for phrase like, you can lead a horse to ba, but you can't make it blast. What did it say? It said, you can lead a horse to Taco Bell, but you can't make it live moss. Terrible, but kind of good.

Valley. It's that Silicon Valley at its worst, thinks it is God or that it can recreate God. Yeah, we see a lot of that. How, how, how would you guess that he feels about people sort of implying that AI is. Is alive? There were some comments at the event yesterday saying, you know, these systems mimic feelings like fear, and particularly, particularly pointing out that Chris Ola or like Anthropic has written in the past that they have detected emotions within certain reasoning chains. And then the Pope said that these systems don't feel emotion in the same way. But I didn't see that much incongruity there because one is sort of a description of the flavor of a text that's being generated, and the other one is the real true emotion, I suppose. But how did you process that? Is there actually a divide or is there some more so synthesis that can be drawn there? Sure. I think on the first, I will say that I think Leo views this as a side issue, truly, in terms of. He really cares about the practical first and foremost. Sure. But what you're referring to, I mean, we know anthropic gathered 15 faith leaders in March and asked the question, is Claude a child of God? The very short answer from Catholicism, from Christianity writ large, is that the inviable dignity of the human person is unmeasurable. A better way of putting it. People always, you hear that phrase, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It's actually a Christian idea. The wholeness of what it means to be a human cannot be measured or recreated in a lab. It is a theological claim, it is a religious claim. So I think the best way the Church could understand it is that you can mimic a human being 99%, perhaps 100%. But the fact that it wasn't brought to birth by God and brought to birth by a human person first and foremost, and created, if you will, in a lab, I think that limits the possibility of it being divine. Jordi, what else stuck out to you? How do you feel the Church more broadly, sort of.

Closing out the enhanced games. Of course, the next thing was that over the weekend, Diary of a CEO host Stephen Bartlett went viral for saying that Tyler, throw me, throw me a beer. Yeah. So this is a funny clip. We can play this actual clip. Ross Hendricks. A lot of people were not happy with this. The quote is it from a clipper, says, Stephen Bartlett says a few glasses of wine ruined the next three days of his life. Let's play this clip. It's one of those areas where you don't understand the hidden cost until you really give it up for a while. And I think about my own relationship with drinking. And I stopped drinking at 30 years old. I'm now 33. And I had just drank because I just drank. I'd never ran the experiment of just giving it up for a while. And then like, I don't know, maybe I was at 31. I thought, you know, I'll have a drink again. Because now I could really a b test it. I had a year of not drinking, decided to have a drink again. It ruined three days of my life. I had a couple of glasses of wine, didn't get drunk. It ruined three days of my life because of the domino effect it caused. So it meant that I got worse sleep that night. And then because I got worse sleep that night, I ate more poorly the next day because my, my dopamine system, or whatever, the cortisol system was all messed up. And then I podcasted worse. I didn't go to the gym the day people did not like that. I podcasted worse. I felt really bad. I then slept worse. And I could track all of this on my week. Hashtag ad, hashtag sponsor, hashtag investor, whatever. Yeah. And I was like, oh, my God, I love that Chris is just chilling there. The perfect, perfect age, hidden domino effect that I must have been living with. Yeah. For my whole life. So this is like a very non controversial take that has been popular on podcasts for years, really. But it's, but it's so pointed here. And I think, I mean, there's a bunch of interesting things. I mean, a lot of people are just saying, like, oh, you should just be able to drink. And like, it's gone too far with the, the total abstinence culture. Like, you should be able to have a glass of wine and be fine if you're completely knocked off of everything for three days after a couple glasses of wine. Like, you're not actually, like, you know, strong and hearty and you, like, life will throw other problems at you and much worse than Three glasses of wine, you will lose sleep because your kid is sick, and you will still be asked to perform. And so, yeah, I think parents. Parents watching this certainly looked at it and thought, if one bad night's sleep doesn't allow you to work out for two days or throws you off so significantly, you probably shouldn't have kids, because get ready for every other episode, a lot of crazy. Like, life will throw all sorts of stuff at you. It was funny because when we started doing the show and you saw my various health habits, you used to joke, John would say, I'm a junkyard dog. I just eat everything. And I just assume it's healthy and nourishing, and I feel great. Right. And you would joke that. You would say, if Jordy had a single inorganic blueberry, he would. It would kill him. He would explode instantly. The thoroughbred diet. So, yeah, I've certainly just, you know, battled that myself. Like, the point of being healthy is to be resilient. I mean, the funny thing is that we used to have Dom Perignon episodes where we would drink on the show, and it actually did make us podcast worse. As silly as that sounds like it was harder to maintain the flow of conversation. And you'd think, oh, having a couple drinks probably loosens you up. Like, no, this is actually a performance. Like, even though podcasting is a silly job, like, it is a job and you need to be on. And you need to be on. Yeah. Another example. So we basically, we decided early on to never take sick days, partially because we would. We spend so much time together. Like, we're always. If one of us gets sick, usually the other one gets sick is just part of the game. And think about moments where you just feel, like, completely terrible. But because we don't take sick days, we're like, okay, we're gonna power through. And you end up still, like, we end up still having a fun time. We end up hopefully still having a good show. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think this is. I think we probably hit. I was talking with some friends yesterday and feels like alcohol is gonna go the way of cigarettes, where it's broadly established that it is very unhealthy, but can still be quite enjoyable and will maintain some level. Like cigars. Cigars. No, but. But I mean, cigarettes are still widely consumed. Yeah, but cigarettes are so addictive that people either, like, smoke them all the time or not at all. Whereas I think a lot of people who do drink wine will have, like, a glass of wine on the weekends, whereas there's no one who's Like, I have one cigarette a week. That's not, like, a thing. But people do that with cigars. They'll be like, oh, yeah, I go to cigar nights. There's definitely people that. It's pretty rare, though. It's pretty rare. Anyway, the last thing is that I was fascinated by this fact that this went so viral because of this clip. And crypto Mickley, who is Web3 clipping at Counterparty TV, not Thread Guy, clipped this. And I was interested in it because at first I was like, is this out of context? And this is sort of the full context from the actual show, but it does sort of change the context because this is obviously from a longer show. It's two people hanging out for an hour. They're talking about a lot of different things. But when the clip is introduced as, like, Stephen Bartlett says, a few glasses of wine ruined the next three days of his life, it's the most. It's written like a press release. You know, it's like a statement. And it's not necessarily what Stephen would have put out as a press release. He wouldn't put it. He wouldn't necessarily have done a blog with the title. Yeah. And the actual wine. This is a guy that cares a lot about performance, and he's basically admitting that he had a few glasses of wine and it threw him off. Yeah. And he's just trying to tell, like, a positive story of, like. Yeah. Just, you know, removing something, feeling healthier. It made him happy. I don't know. But it clearly triggered everyone, because there's 24 million views on this and 2,000 quote tweets. And Ian over at SciCom, the team behind Huberman and Ian, is pulling up the chart of new podcasts by year. It's possible that drinking is correlated with podcast creation. People were drinking because people are drinking. We should start a podcast. We should start a podcast. Maybe. Maybe it actually peaked right in 2020 and falls off a cliff. This is a crazy story. When drinking really fell off a cliff. Because of COVID too. Yeah. Make it make sense. So where all the podcasts launched in 2020, I guess, is that where this line lines up? Because I guess during COVID a lot of people started shows, and then it went back to sort of the baseline, I guess. I'm surprised. I'd like to know more about this data because it feels like there's been, like, an ongoing boom forever, but I guess not. Anyway, we.

Anyway, anyways, we should talk about Enhanced Games. Yes. So I went over to David Sender's house on Saturday with my friend Ben and we were all excited to watch and we basically turned it on. And pretty much 15 minutes in, I texted John and said I thought the stock would nuke on Tuesday. And it did. It's down. Let's see. It was down 41%. I saw chatter about the Enhanced Games on the timeline. It seemed like everything was going normal. I saw some viral clips, I saw some posts about it. I didn't notice anything out of the usual. But you said that it did not blow you away and I wanted to understand what about it was not a great. You come away paying for UFC pay per view or watching it on Paramount plus now very satisfied. Why was this any different? From my perspective, this looks just like any other sport on tv. It looks like something you watch and sports and. Yeah, you root for somebody and you pick a team. Yeah. So first of all, this company went public before they had ever hosted an event. Right. So. And we've been hearing about it for years. I said to you this morning, it feels like we've been hearing about this for like eight years. You said it's more like maybe two years or something that it's even being talked about. Yeah, yeah. But anyways, a lot of anticipation. People have been super excited about this. The entire concept, I think, is just like really cool and wild. Right. You take something that, like the Olympics, which, you know, even if you're not obsessed with swimming or weight or weightlifting or running or any of these things, like, the Olympics are always like an exciting cultural moment. And I think I personally have a bunch of fond memories watching the Olympics. So take something that I generally think is very cool and you add steroids. That's a very fun idea. Should be jet fuel. Jet fuel should enhance the experience. And then as soon as I started watching, there's a bunch of stuff I would give them a pass on. Right. Like the production value, putting on an event for the first time. It didn't feel like you were watching the Olympics. It felt like you were watching like someone's first attempt at hosting an Olympics. There weren't those, like, crazy, like, drone cameras following things ultra slow mo. Yeah, they were. They were trying to do stuff. But again, the people doing commentary have never done it before. You know, the whole event is, you know, just being birthed. Right. So it had an insane amount of attention on it for first event, which is always tough. But then watching it, I realized, like, the appeal like none of these, none of these events. Like, you can't just watch somebody run in a race and know whether or not they're breaking a record. Like, you can see like, oh, that person's quite fast. Yeah. But unless there's like crazy graphics. Yeah. You can overlay of Usain Bolt of like the official. Yeah, yeah. So it's never about like exactly how fast someone was. Right. Because sure, there's records involved, but the difference, you can't noticeably see whether somebody lifted 220kg or 220.1. It's not visible to the eye. Right. So what became really obvious to me instantly was like, the appeal of the Olympics is you have these like, very niche activities where athletes dedicate their entire life to the pursuit. And then every four years there's like a five minute period where they're getting like the entire world's attention and they're representing their country and they're going for glory and they either they either do it or they don't. They get the gold medal or they don't. You know, whether even getting a silver medal is like agony. Right. Because like, you just dedicated your whole life to this thing and you're in second place. And so it really is about. It really. It just stuck out to me immediately that it's about, you know, national pride, representing your country, you know, true excellence. Right. And in watching this, there was none of that they were trying to do to basically build up the brands of the athletes ahead of time. But there was just like, no, I didn't feel like bought in to any of the storylines. These are a bunch of athletes that were formerly Olympic athletes and some of them had done quite well that are now basically opting into a, like just a for profit. Like, the Olympics are not about making money. The Enhanced Games were about, sure, it was about the athleticism. Athleticism, but a lot of it was just like a payday. Right. And so like, there wasn't the same. I didn't feel. I basically, we turned it on and then we walked outside and we just made a fire and like hung out and it was like really far in the distance. And we eventually came back, came back for the very end, not realizing that no records have been broken until that moment. Entire night, until the last event. Last event. And then you watch the event. And I think what would have been made it more interesting like a horse race, because is like if you had like an actual overlay of the person swimming the actual record, like you. They left a lane open or something like that. And you could have seen the person. I mean, it was 100ths of a second. Yeah. So it was really, really tight. Would have been neck and neck. And so, yeah. So anyways, it wasn't, it didn't like, capture me. I think that it's something entirely different than the Olympics. I think it's a very clever way to market generic supplements. Right. If you go on enhance.com Right now, we don't have an affiliation, of course, but you can just get testosterone and a bunch of different products. But, yeah, to me, you also came away being like, the human spirit is way more powerful than any ped. Just like dedicating your life to something for decades and being absolutely obsessed and representing your country is more powerful than being able to do whatever performance enhancing drug. So major white pill for humanity. Yeah. Actually, some.

One car that was getting a lot of love was this special edition that was teased online. You can pull us up. This is the natural ice edition. I thought this looked fantastic. If the team can pull it up here for everyone to see. Yeah. With wrap, I think really beautiful. People might be wrapping these for sure. I'm sure. Color matching. Color matching the wheels to the. The gloss and the shine of the can, I think is really, really nice. And I could see this being a hit on at least college campuses. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Imagine having this be your college car and wrapping it well. The wrap is usually paid for by the brand, so the brand will be like, oh, we want a campus ambassador. I know, but I was hoping that Ferrari would just take the leap and actually do a full on partnership special edition. Right? Yep. Well, Chat didn't like the Ford 021C example, the concept car in the orange, which we can pull up. But I want to know if Chat likes it more, if it has a body kit. Let's pull up the Ford 021C right after the. There we go. Does that do anything for you? There we go. If you turn it into a track weapon, are you getting somewhere? Look at the arrow. So aggressive. But show the original photo, the first one. Yeah. There you go. You're gonna take that. Some slight modifications and boom. Take it away. Go back. Go back to the. To John's version. There we go. Yeah. We should look at the solo cup inspired hyper. Oh, yeah. So John is having went really, really deep on designing some new cars with the ChatGPT. I think I got a future here. I think I got a future. Look at this. They call this the red time. The red line. Good times, sharp lines. The red line. Inspired by the iconic, simple, universal solo cup. Driving a solo cup inspired. This is really the perfect Memorial Day weekend car.

And Ferrari's back with a new electric car. Are they back? That's what we're gonna debate. They're certainly. They launched it. Ferrari launches a $640,000 Johnny. I've designed glass clad Electric Speedster. They're calling it the Electric Speedster. I was not. I, I word. It holds five seats. Seats. I wouldn't. When I think speedster, I think smaller. I think two seats. I wouldn't. It is quick. It is speedy. Well, have they actually released numbers on how quick it is? I know that they mentioned that it has a thousand horsepower. We would assume that it's quick, but who knows? We don't have a Nurburgring time. We don't necessarily have a 0 to 60 time. We will see. But we do have some good coverage from the. There is a zero to 60. What is it? I think they released it. It is more performant than I believe the Model 3. I will confirm Model 3 or the Model S plaid. Now that's a good question, John, because the Model 3 is not like base Model 3.0to60 in less than 2.5 seconds. OK, that's not as fast as a plaid. Yeah, that's sort of surprisingly low. Or surprisingly high. Anyway. Named after the Italian word for light, the loose will test. Or is it Luce Lucha. Lucha will test the appetite of the super rich. As EVs have fallen out of favor in the United States, it'll be interesting to know where. When did this start? Because there has been a big shift and it happened somewhat quickly. It feels like it's been like the shift away from EVs happened over a year or two. But the design timelines for a project like this might be five years, might be even longer. So let's, let's set the table with the Wall Street Journal article and then we can go into your take just so we have a little bit of context here. An electric vehicle, big on glass, light and space. This isn't your father's Ferrari. On Sunday, Europe's most valuable automaker took the wraps for now. Yeah, Ferrari has been a, it's a big company. It's a, it's been a successful. The market cap's been huge. Like, it's grown a bunch. The acquired team did a great podcast explaining the whole history of the stock is down 5% today. 5% today. But it's still. What, what is it? $62 billion. That's not bad for. I mean, I feel like a lot of other car companies are sort of beaten up and much smaller based on their only down 30% over the last year. Okay, okay. Does that make an AI winner? Who knows? So named after the Italian word for light, the Ferrari Luci will test the appetite of the super rich for EVs when electric vehicles have fallen out of favor in the U.S. the world's top top market for luxury cars. Designed in partnership with celebrated Apple alumnus Jony I've, the model also represents a leap into a new technology built for a brand built over decades around the size, sound and sensation of traditional engines. The Lucre will be among the most expensive Ferraris that aren't a part of a limited production run. So it's an unlimited production run. They will be making as many as there are demand for. They'll make a bunch. People will hopefully come and buy them. If they do, they'll make more. Production might end up being limited depending on demand. I think you can see where Jordy's take is going to be.

Then what would you expect Silicon Valley to take away or change based on that? So that was the goal for sure. I think Pope Leo the 14th understands that AI is inevitable. Let's just put you on this for a second. He's, He's a. He's 70 years old and Pope speak, that's like a baby. He's quite young. He's the youngest Pope we've had in 40 years. He's the first pope to own a cell phone. He's the first Pope to send an email. He's the first Pope to have an Apple watch. So he's ingrained in the technological revolution in the flesh. So he daily drives an app watch? Yeah, yeah, he has an Apple watch. He also has a Garmin too. So. Me and him have some sympathic over there. But yes, he loves technology, he plays world every day. And most importantly, he consumes western media. He consumes the western media and what's going on. So he knows what's happening in the world. And so I think that really informed him what he wants. The Catholic Church never prescribes policies, they provide, we prescribe principles. It's really up to the policymakers to do that, to really up to Silicon Valley and the products they make to do that. But what he wants Silicon Valley to keep in mind is this question of the human person. Whether our projects are advancing the dignity of the human person or whether they are not. And I think that he hears language that concerns him quite a bit. Oftentimes he's especially concerned about any time where human responsibility is abdicated to machines and there's no one that you can look back to. And particularly he's been a lot of document talking about war. Obviously what's going on in Iran has really concerned him. He was particularly affected by that first bombing on the day one of the war that killed 168 school children in Manav, Iran. And he received a letter from those children's parents. So he's deeply impacted by decisions like this and he finds that to be grotesque, but he thinks it would be even more grotesque if machines were killing humans without human decision making involved. So those are some of the concerns he has. Goes on the economics as well, but really the underlying underpinning concern is human responsibility. He wants that to be at the forefront and the dignity of the person. Now that the Silicon Valley what that looks like, I think that there's a significant chance that a lot of people will in Silicon Valley will view this as, you know, decel nonsense, do nonsense which as you said it isn't, but I hope they take the folks seriously. Yeah, on the economic question, I was interested in the fact that he sort of called out that that GDP might not be the best development measure. Because I've been hearing this from all over the place. We had Doug o' Laughlin is the president of semianalysis, very deeply in the inner workings of the AI buildout, talking about how GDP was an inaccurate measure of certain measures of progress in terms of just economic impact of AI. Then you have Kyla Scanlon has written about the Vibe session, this disconnect between the economic progress of Americans versus the perception and happiness. And we can see it right now. The economy is growing, the stock market is at all times highs, yet consumer sentiment is at almost all time lows. And so I've talked to a lot of folks about this problem of like what are we measuring? What is the goal? It's always been gdp. And I think it's interesting to see that the Pope is calling it out. I don't know that anyone has a really solid answer. My fear is that you wind up going towards like happiness optimization and then that takes you into a very dangerous territory too. But in terms of like unpacking that question of gdp, development progress measures, like how do you think the Church is reflecting on the way we have become a very measurement driven society broadly? Well, let's go back to Leo XIV was named after his. He took the name, his own name, after his predecessor Leo XIII, who in 1891 wrote what was called rear on the bottom. If you're not a Latin expert, that means on new things. And Leo the 13th. A lot of people in the west credit credit him for the intellectual force behind labor unions, the intellectual force behind a 40 hour workweek and weekends, et cetera. I think that that is a good indicator of what we owe the 14th wants as well. The word leisure is sometimes, I think derided in a capitalist society. But in Catholicism it's a great thing. We rest on Sundays. Jews rest on Friday Shabbat, the Sabbath. There's something about being able to limit the time of work, expanding time of recreation, of spending time with your family and loved ones. Remember the word recreation. Its root is recreate. That's actually the mission, if you will, of the Catholic Church of Christianity is to recreate. That's what Christ does in Christianity when he rises from the de ahead. We're looking for more moments of recreation. So I think the Catholic dream would be, you know, to honor the 40 hour work week and perhaps maybe even a little less I don't think that's possible. But to honor the 40 hour work week as sacred, to honor leisure as sacred, to ensure that people only have to work one job to provide for themselves and their families, I think that's what we're looking for. We're looking for a baseline comfort that everyone can achieve in this country by working hard for 40 hours a week. There's nothing wrong with having rest. Yeah. So help me synthesize that with what the Pope said about, like, the unique human challenges, the challenges that make us human. He said, for an algorithm, an error is a flaw to be corrected. For a person, however, an error can be a catalyst for profound change. It was sort of a warning against transhumanism and this idea that every problem is to be solved. In fact, sometimes the problems are what make us human and our struggles are the value and what brings you joy. Overcoming. But how are you synthesizing those two ideas? I think that it reminds me of an author that maybe your listeners are familiar with. Oliver Berkman wrote, I believe it was called, I Can't Remember the word. It was 4,000 weeks, basically a survival guide for mortality and for the Catholic Church, for Christians, for people of faith in general. Mortality is not something to be overcome in and of itself. It's about having a dignified life. He's very skeptical of Brian Johnson again. Of course, he didn't name check Ryan Johnson. Yeah. But for Christianity, death is a part, a noble part of the equation. So I think it's really hard for the Pope and for the Church to understand this idea that that is something to be overcome, just to get a little theological for a second. Really. The way that Christianity overcomes death is by dying. St. Paul says that Jesus by dying, destroyed our death. So death is not something we should be afraid of. It's something that is part of the journey. It's what creates a second life for us, a life everlasting. So more practical levels. I think we want to do anything that can dignify the human life to make it better, live, to make it more comfortable for people. But we, we shouldn't be afraid of our limitations. Saint Gustin famously says that my shortcomings, who, by the way, St. Augustine's the patron of Pope Leo XIV. He says that my shortcomings actually give honor to God because what it does is it proves the need for a redeemer, a savior. Let me put it in more blunt terms, we can't save ourselves. I think if Pope Leo thought there was an original sin of Silicon Valley, it's that Silicon Valley, at its worst, thinks it is God or that it can recreate God. Yeah, we see a lot of that. How would you guess that he feels about people?

By Italian chef Massimo Boruto. Bottura clips of Formula one stars Lewis Hamilton and Charlotte Claire racing the car. And lots of lights. Ooh, I want to see this. What this car actually looks like on the track. I haven't seen a video of that yet. The unveiling sparked a debate among car fans online, with many pillaring the design as too far outside of Ferrari's design traditions. Ferrari's Milan listed shares slumped around 6%. Ferrari has four framed the shift as a chance to experiment. We wanted to do what we hadn't been able to do before, said Ferrari chairman John Elkin. Let's see. The Luce is Ferrari's first ever Ferrari with five seats, an option ruled out by the axle in its traditional powertrain configuration. So if you have a family of five, this is your only option. Despite the roominess, the EV accelerates from 0 to 60 in less than 2.5 seconds. If you have a family of six, you could pick up two of these from for just over 1.2 million. And you still have some room for friends. Husband and wife. His and hers. Yes, his and hers. Luce. Yeah. Wild, wild prop. Also. Yeah. I mean top speed's 190. Top speed in the Plaid is 200 and top speed in many Cadillac CT5V Blackwings, maybe more than. Yeah. So I did confirm by the way that it is half a second slower than the model S plaid. Yeah. Which is a lot. Yeah, it's, it's at that point maybe you don't really recognize it. Maybe you can't really tell. The problem is the range is worse than pretty much everything BYD makes, pretty much everything that Tesla makes and a lot of these other manufacturers. But they could always argue no. But the performance. And I don't think for this kind of cool car buyer performance matters. What is performance? Is it acceleration, straight line speed, how it handles in corners? Right. This car is not going to be a track weapon, I don't think. Not yet. But we have some friends body kits that might help with that. See, you put a wig on this thing. Anything possible to me. So yeah, the range is what you were getting at 330 miles despite an unusually large battery. Latest releases from BMW and Volvo run for more than 500 miles. The Lucid Air Sapphire is over 500 and many Teslas can get up into the 400 something range. 330 totally usable for most people, especially if you're charging at home. Totally fine if this is a daily and you want to drive this around. But it is sort of in search of A like, how does it fit into someone's life? Because again, it's not designed for the track, it's not designed for the straight line speed. I. Overall, I think it looks pretty cool. It looks unique. Yeah. I don't, I don't see it and immediately want it. Like, there's been plenty of other modern Ferraris that I think look amazing. Even even many of them have gotten quite negative reactions. So. So overall I think the design is interesting. I think the interior is obviously cool. We talked about that. I was somewhat worried that the interior would maybe not match the exterior. I don't like the two tone thing, but again, that's just sort of like a modern color. Delete. I think it will look really cool if it's entirely black. Right. A lot of people were saying that will look quite cool. But yeah, the main thing is that this entire, that angle looks great, by the way, but not $650,000 great. It's certainly the most confusing release from a major automotive manufacturer that I can ever remember. Right. Yeah. Who is this? Who is this for, like coming out and how would you compound like, right away, I'm like, am I, am I, am I crazy? This is like cost more than the Purosangue 12 cylindri, the Testarossa. All these other cars that didn't get amazing reactions, but I think are like very, very cool. Seeing them in person. They look amazing. Yeah, I think that they're fantastic. Yeah. What a confusing. There is what a, what a confusing gap between like seeing images and videos and pictures of cars and then actually seeing them in person. Yeah. Like oftentimes when you see something in person, you're standing there and you have the sense of perspective. They can look a lot better sometimes. They're going to look worse. One of the other, one of the other challenges is, you know, modern Ferraris have had, outside of their halo, cars have had, you know, pretty massive depreciation and what have EVs become synonymous with Depreciation. Depreciation. So this car, like the Purosangue, I don't really know how it's going to hold up. It is naturally aspirated V12. It's probably going to hold up decently. You're still going to be able to buy. Yeah, you're still going to be able to buy it. Unlimited. You're still gonna be able to buy one for probably $350,000, like in the next couple years. But this, I can imagine just getting cut, getting cut in half, like quite, quite quickly. I expected it to come in you know, not a very informed view but I expected them to come in at maybe something in like the $300,000 range. Right. Something that is would be a very expensive daily but something that somebody could compare to. Oh, should I get. Yeah, should I get a Roma? Should I get you know a Taycan Turbo S if you want an ev. Oh, should I stretch a little bit and get get a Luche? Yeah. And again, I just don't know. I just don't know who this car is is for. I hope that, that there's enough Johnny I've fans to make this sell. The sense I get is like I don't think Ferrari would have started this project and said we've always wanted to make a $650,000 daily EV. That's been the car. That's been the car. And it seems like they started this project and they're like let's make an entry level. The closest thing Ferrari has to a mass market car car that you can daily. A car that is is unique. Really thought through from the beginning. Right. This idea of combining EV with a Johnny interior is like a cool concept. And then you could imagine they start and they're like oh, we're going to be able to hit 350 for sure. We're going to be able to hit three 300 for sure. Okay, maybe, maybe it'll be more like 350 but like still we're in the range and then it just starts like ticking up and up and, and up and up and up until. How do you justify the price? It makes no sense and it's just very. I saw when you're laughing. Hunter, Hunter, be kind. It's very concerning because I just think it's basically proving that Ferrari I don't think can ever. I don't think they'll ever be competitive in EVs. This segment. Yeah, this segment I think it's completely over. Like they feel really hard to compete in. You're going up against Tesla. This vertically integrated like comes with if you want a daily. You also want self driving capabilities. You also want the oh park it Auto Summon. Like you know, you want to be able to like all these like random features that Tesla puts in like take your car, play the games. Like yeah, very functional. And the thing with the blue Che is the design. There's so many elements of the design that are super tactile, very cool, quirky. But Tesla has done a very good job of making a car that is very drivable and it can be quirky if you Want it to be. And it can. Yeah. The sound effect board, it has a soundboard. Like, if you want the quirk, you can get the quirk. So, yeah, so I think it's over. I think take me through your take from start to finish, and then we can. We've covered a lot of. I basically said, like, look, the peanut gallery is already very narrow. Negative on all Ferrari launches, which is so bullish. Every single time they say, bring back Pininfarina. Pininfarina is not coming back. Like, the whole company got sold to an Indian automotive conglomerate. Tata. Tata Motors, they launched the Pininfarina Batiste. So if you pull up the Pininfarina Batista, if you pull up a picture of that, you will see an image of an electric hypercar that looks exactly like you would expect in the sense that it's the car that would go on a poster on a kid's bedroom, but it's a million dollars or more, and it goes zero to 60 in two seconds. And the reviews are kind of like, yeah, this is the max. Yeah, the Pininfarina Batista right there. Like, that looks like a McLaren, like a Ferrari. Like, it looks like. It looks like if you went to ChatGPT and just said, like, make me a hypercar, and I think it checks the box, and I think the Luce does not. I think if you went to ChatGPT and said, Design me a hypercar, you could sit there for days and not get something that looks like Lucha, because it does look different, and that can be good. It can also be bad, because people are expecting this. But this car, I don't think sold very well because the buyer for this design wants a naturally aspirated V12 with a manual shifter. Right? And they want something that's more focused and more of an experience. They don't want something that's practical at all. Yeah, yeah. So. So. So anyways, people are always negative on. On. On recent Ferrari launches. I don't. I usually don't agree. I think a bunch of them have been great. And. But. But the anger towards the design, I think, is totally misplaced. You got to be. You got to be, like, just disappointed in the price, the gap between what you can get from a range and performance From Tesla or BYD, let's say, in the 50, $60,000 range, you're looking at a 10x difference, right? And that gap is just way too wide. So I think if they had been able to come in, in the low 300s with this, it would have been super desirable, quite Functional. Right. This is a great commuter. We would have been seeing these all over la. I think this is going to flop and I actually think that if Ferrari wants to be competitive in this sort of like mass market EV category, even like luxury, you know, luxury. Not, not necessarily true mass market, but, but more high end. I think they would have to at this point like partner with like you could imagine them partnering with, with someone else and effectively just saying like you know, throwing in the towel. I think they still have a fantastic business focusing on the higher end of their range. I can even think of what a high end driver focused sedan, four door, five seater sedan is because typically the, when you get to five seats, four doors, upmarket expensive luxury, you just go suv. So you have like Range Rover and Urus from Lamborghini and you know, Aston Martin is pushing that way. Like it feels like this is a very like the four door, expensive. Four door is rare. Yeah. And I think it's very differentiated. The Purosangue. Personally I would have liked to see something that was like sportier than that. Yeah, it's very, yeah, but it's an SUV from Ferrari. Something a little bit more aggressive. Personally I would have liked. It came off very cute. Take out the second row. Take out the two seats. No, no, you can make a sporty cayenne turbo gt. It's a sporty carbon, sporty, fast suv. I just feel like with the Pro sideway, it's like the, like, like the 296 is right here, sir. If you have any complaints about it being an suv. Like they do have a, they do have a sports car for you if you want that. The question is just like if you want, if you want performance, you go sports car. I'm just saying, like, just saying. I think they, they, they, they kind of missed on both. Right. I think if they made like super. If they made like an aggressive. If they made the Purosangue but it was like more aggressive, I think it'd be way more desirable. Wait, are you talking about the, the stock Purosague or are you talking about the Puginator? The Mansory modified puginator? The Puginator. I think. No, I think Mansory has a body kit for the Purosangue that's called the Puget, which is such a funny name. Yeah. So anyways, big, big, big L. And I think that that will become very obvious in the coming years. They are going to sell some. I expect Cupertino to be crawling with Luce. But. And I was thinking like, I was like, who is when I thought about who is a buyer for this. It's like foreign exchange student in the US that needs a car for like a few years instead of like a Black Badge Cullinan or something. Exactly, exactly. But that's not a big market. Yeah. It's just hard because I understand the concept of, like, the. When I imagine, like the Cullinan, like driving on the sand dunes in Saudi Arabia, it just has such a different vibe. It's. It's so much more regal and royal than this design. This. This design is so much more friendly. We can actually go and look at the fact that you can. It's like, hey, luxury car buyer. Would you like a Rolls Royce Cullinan or a Ferrari Lucci. Luci. Yeah. Which is a just extremely millennial coded car. I mean, it has a lot of the Apple feel to it. A lot of people were making. I had a theory earlier that maybe the real cost, maybe it's like a $50,000 car, but making a custom iPad, and you're only gonna make a very small number of them. You're only gonna make like, it's a $500,000 interior. No, it's a $600,000 iPad. Okay. You know, in the front console. Yeah. So it's basically like a Model 3 and then a $600,000 iPad combined. Right. Because I don't think they're going to be making a lot of these. I really wonder how they're going to. How they're going to drive. You want a safari version, right? That's the ideal. I do. I do. Sam Sheffer was sharing the, like, what does it look like if it's all black? And yeah, I went in there, I was like, make it a safari version. Get some bigger wheels on it, expand the wheel wells. Easy ask. Basically do another 300 grand of work to make it a million dollar luce. Add some equipment. You know what this looks like? This looks like that. Pull this up. This image. What was the. What was the Lamborghini electric one that they were working on? The Lanzador. It was like a big car. This was like a theme for a while. I don't think it ever went anywhere. I don't know if you saw the Lanzador. I can share it in the thing. There it is. So this is. Yeah, I think this looks cool. Again, having a car that's designed to go off road, that only has a few hundred miles, it's kind of a crazy move. It's kind of a crazy move. But I could see people take the Rivians off road. And they're very good. Yeah, because you can. I mean, this car has four electric motors, one in each wheel. Yeah. The Rivian. So adjust the torque independently. So if you're losing grip on one rock in particular, Rivian, at the Fat Ice Race in Big sky was going absolutely crazy. Really? Yeah. It was extremely impressive. Yeah, it's designed for that. Pull up. The Lamborghini Lanzador. This was the Lamborghinis.

Design traditions. Ferrari's Milan listed Shares slumped around 6%. Ferrari has framed the shift as a chance to experiment. We wanted to do what we hadn't been able to do before, said Ferrari chairman John Elkin. Let's see. The Luce is Ferrari's first ever Ferrari with five seats, an option ruled out by the axle in its traditional powertrain configuration. So if you have a family of five, this is your only option. Despite the roominess, the EV accelerates from 0 to 60 in less than 2.5seconds. If you have a family of six, you could pick up two of these for just over 1.2 million. And you still have some room for friends. Husband and wife. His and hers. Yes, his and hers. Luce. Yeah. Wild, wild problem also. Yeah, I mean top speed's 190. Top speed in the Plaid is 200 and top speed in many Cadillac CT5V Blackwegs, maybe more than 20. Yes. I did confirm, by the way, that it is half a second slower than the model S plaid. Yeah. Which is. Yeah, it's, it's at that point maybe you don't really recognize it, maybe you can't really tell straight lines. The problem is the range is worse than pretty much everything BYD makes, pretty much everything that Tesla makes and a lot of these other manufacturers. But they could always argue, oh, but the performance and, and I don't think for this kind of car buyer performance matters. What is performance? Is it acceleration, straight line speed, how it handles in corners? Right. This car is not going to be track weapon. I don't yet but we have some, but we have some friends body kits that might help with that. You put a wing on this thing. Anything possible to me. So yeah, the range is what you were getting at 330 miles despite an unusually large battery. Latest releases from BMW and Volvo run for more than 500 miles. The Lucid Air Sapphire is over 500 and many Teslas can get up into the 400 something range. 330. Totally usable for most people, especially if you're charging at home. Totally fine if this is a daily and you want to drive this round. But it is sort of in search of a like how does it fit into someone's life? Because again, it's not designed for the track, it's not designed for the straight speed. I overall, I think it looks pretty cool. It looks unique. I don't see it and immediately want it. There's been plenty of other modern Ferraris that I think look amazing. Even many of them have gotten quite negative reactions. So overall I think the Design is interesting. I think the interior is obviously cool. We talked about that. I was somewhat worried that the interior would maybe not match the exterior. I don't like the two tone thing, but again, that's just sort of like a modern pillar delete. I think it will look really cool if it's entirely black murdered out. A lot of people were saying that will look quite cool. But yeah, the main thing is that this entire, that angle looks great, by the way, but not $650,000 great. It's certainly the most confusing release from a major automotive manufacturer that I can ever remember. Right. Yeah. Who is this? Who is this for, like coming out and how would you significantly like right away, I'm like, am I, am I, am I crazy? This is like cost more than the pursangue 12 cylindri, the Testarossa. All these other cars that didn't get amazing reactions, but I think are like very, very cool seeing them in person. They look amazing. Yeah, I think that they're fantastic. Yeah. What a confusing. There is what a, what a confusing gap between like seeing images and videos and pictures of cars and then actually seeing them in person. Yeah. Like oftentimes when you see something in person, you're standing there and you have the sense of perspective. They can look a lot better sometimes. They're going to look worse. One of the other, one of the other challenges is, you know, for our modern Ferraris have had, outside of their halo, cars have had, you know, pretty massive depreciation and what have EVs become synonymous with depreciation? Depreciation. So this car. Yeah, like the Pursangue, I don't really know how it's going to hold up. It is naturally aspirated V12. It's probably going to hold up decently. You're still going to be able to buy. Yeah, you're still going to be able to buy it. Unlimited. You're still gonna be able to buy one for probably $350,000. Like. Yeah. In the next couple years. But this I can imagine just getting cut, getting cut in half, like quite, quite quickly. I expected it to come in, you know, not, not a very informed view, but I expected them to come in at maybe something in like the $300,000 range. Right. Something that is, would be a very expensive daily, but something that somebody could compare to. Oh, should I get. Yeah, should I get a Roma? Should I get, you know, a Taycan Turbo S if you want an ev. Oh, should I stretch a little bit and get, get a Luche? Yeah, and Again, I just don't know. I just don't know who this car is is for. I hope that, that there's enough Johnny I've fans to make this sell. The sense I get is like I don't think Ferrari would have started this project and said we've always wanted to make a $650,000 daily EV. That's been the car. That's been the car. And it seems like they started this project and they're like let's make an entry level. The closest thing Ferrari has to a mass market car car that you can daily. A car that is. Is unique. Really thought through from the beginning. Right. This idea of combining EV with a Johnny interior is like a cool concept and then you could imagine they start and they're like oh we're going to be able to hit 350 or we're going to be able to hit 3, 300 for sure. Okay maybe, maybe it'll be more like 350 but like still we're in the range and then it just starts like ticking up and up and up and until. How do you, how do you, how do you just. How do you justify the price? It makes no sense and it's very, it's very, it's just very. I saw when you're laughing Hunter, Hunter, be kind. It's a very, it's very concerning because I just think it's basically proving that Ferrari I don't think can ever. I don't think they'll ever be competitive in EVs segment. Yeah this segment I think it's, I think it's completely over. Like they really hard to compete. You're going up against Tesla. This vertically integrated like comes with if you want a daily. You also want self driving capabilities. You also want the park it auto summon. Like you know, you want to be able like all these like random features that Tesla puts in like take your car, play the games. Like yeah, very functional. And the thing with the blue Che is the design. There's so many elements of the design that are super tactile, very cool, quirky. But Tesla has done a very good job of making a car that is very drivable and it can be quirky if you want it to be and it can. Yeah. The sound effect board, it has a soundboard. Like if you want the quirk you can get the quirk. So yeah, so I think it's over. I think take me through your take from start to finish and then we can, we've covered a lot of. I basically said like look, the peanut gallery is already very negative on all Ferrari launches, which is bullish. Every single time they say, bring back Pininfarina. Pininfarina is not coming back. Like, the whole company got sold to an Indian automotive conglomerate, Tata Motors, they launched the Pininfarina Batiste. So if you pull up the Pininfarina Batista, if you pull up a picture of that, you will see an image of an electric hypercar that looks exactly like you would expect in the sense that it's the car that would go on a poster on a kid's bedroom, but it's a million dollars or more and it goes zero to 60 in two seconds. And the reviews are kind of like, yeah, this is the max. Yeah, the Pininfarina Batista right there. Like that looks like a McLaren. Like a Ferrari. Like it looks like. It looks like if you went to ChatGPT and just said, like, make me a hypercar, and I think it checks the box, and I think the Luce does not. I think if you went to ChatGPT and said, Design me a hypercar, you could sit there for days and not get something that looks like blue chip, because it does look different. And that can be good. It can also be bad because people are expecting this. But this car, I don't think sold very well because the buyer for this design wants a naturally aspirated V12 with a manual shifter. Right. And they want something that's more focused and more of an experience. They don't want something that's practical at all. Yeah, yeah, so, so, so anyways, people are always negative on, on, on recent Ferrari launches. I don't, I usually don't agree. I think a bunch of them been great and, but, but the anger towards the design, I think is totally misplaced. You got to be, you got to be like, just disappointed in the price, the gap between what you can get from a range and performance From Tesla or BYD, let's say in the 50, $60,000 range, you're looking at a 10x difference, right? And that gap is just way too wide. So I think if they had been able to come in, in the low 300s with this, it would have been super desirable, quite functional. Right? This is a great commuter. We would have been seeing these all over la. I think this is going to flop. And I actually think that if Ferrari wants to be competitive in this sort of like mass market EV category, even like luxury, you know, luxury, not, not necessarily true mass market, but, but more high end, I think they would have to at this Point like partner with like you could imagine them partnering with, with someone else and effectively just saying like, you know, throwing in the towel. I think they still have a fantastic business focusing on the higher end of their range. I can't even think of what a high end driver focused sedan, four door, five seater sedan is because typically the, when you get to five seats four doors up market expensive luxury, you just go SUVs. You have like Range Rover and Urus from Lamborghini. And you know, Aston Martin is pushing that way. Like it feels like this is a very like the four door, expensive, four door is rare. Yeah. And I think it's very differentiated. The purosangue. Personally I would have liked to see something that was like, like sportier than that. Yeah, it's very, it's supposed to be. Yeah, but, but it's a, for an SUV from Ferrari, something a little bit more aggressive. Personally I would have liked it came off very cute. Take out the second, take out the two seats. No, no, you can make a sporty Cayenne turbo gt. It's a sporty carbon, sporty fast suv. I just feel like with the Pro Segway, it's like the, like the 296 is right here. Sir. If you have any complaints about it being an suv, like they do have a, they do have a sports car for you if you want that. The question is just like if you want, if you want performance, you go sports car. I'm just saying, like, just saying. I think they, they, they, they kind of missed on both. Right. I think if they made like super weird, if they made like an aggressive. If they made the purosangue but it was like more aggressive, I think it'd be way more desirable. Wait, are you talking about the, the stock purosangue or are you talking about the puginator? The Mansory modified Puga. The Puginator. I think. No, I think Mansory has a body kit for the Purosangue that's called the Pugin, which is such a funny name. Yeah. So anyways, big, big, big L. And I think that that will become very obvious in the coming years. They are gonna sell some. I expect Cupertino to be crawling with Lucent in the Ferrari. I was like, who is. When I thought about who is a buyer for this, it's like foreign exchange student in the US that needs a car for like a few years instead of like a black badge Cullinan or something. Exactly, exactly. But that's not a big market. Yeah, it's just hard because I understand the concept of, like, the. When I imagine, like, the Cullinan, like, driving on the sand dunes in Saudi Arabia, it just has such a different vibe. It's so much more regal and royal than this design. This design is so much more friendly. We can actually go and look at the fact that you can. It's like, hey, luxury car buyer. Would you like a Rolls Royce Cullinan or a Ferrari Luci? Yeah. Which is a just extremely millennial coded car. I mean, it has a lot of the Apple feel to it. A lot of people were making. I had a theory earlier that maybe the real cost, maybe it's like a $50,000 car, but making a custom iPad, and you're only gonna make a very small number of them. You're only gonna make, like, it's a $500,000 interior. No, it's a $600,000 iPad. Okay. You know, in the front console. Yeah. So it's basically like a Model 3 and then a $600,000 iPad combined. Right. Because I don't think they're going to be making a lot of these. I really wonder how they're going to. How they're going to drive. You want a safari version, right? That's the ideal. I do, I do. Sam Sheffer was sharing the. Like, what does it look like if it's all black? And, yeah, I went in there, I was like, make it a safari version. Get some bigger wheels on it, expand the wheel wells. Easy Ask. Basically do another 300 grand of work to make it a million dollar Luce. Add some. Add some equipment. You know what this looks like? This looks like that. Pull this up. This image. What was the. What was the Lamborghini electric one that they were working on? The Lanzador. It was like a big car. This was like a theme for a while. I don't think it ever went anywhere. I don't know if you saw the Lanzador. I can share it in the thing. There it is. So this is. Yeah, I think this looks cool. Again, having a car that's designed to go off road, that only has a few hundred miles of range. It's kind of a crazy move. It's kind of a crazy move, but I could see people take the Rivians off road, and they're very good. Yeah. Because you can. I mean, this car has four electric motors, one in each wheel. Yeah. The Rivian. So you can adjust the torque independently. So if you're losing grip on one rock in particular. Yeah. Rivian. At the Fat Ice Race in Big sky with.