NEWSMAX

It. We gotta talk about fan made covers and remixes. The new deal with umg. Yeah, super, super excited about this personally. And of course it's been. You got a song you want to cover, you're gonna do that. You're finally gonna do the Gunna cover you were planning on. What are you listening to? What's your favorite track right now? Is it a Drake track? I've been. No, I think, I think I was expecting Drake to kind of grow up by this point in his career and maybe evolve a bit more. I feel like I grew up maybe faster than Drake. He's, you know, an incredible, incredible superstar. But yeah, John was talking about Gunna. I'm a big Gunna, Gunna fan. Oh yeah. But so I'll be making some Gunna covers and remixes. But yeah, talk about this deal. Certainly controversial, but this feels like one of those things that people will have one reaction and then experience, which I'm assuming will be, you know, incredibly magical. And you know, we've had Mikey from Suno on the show, he's a friend of ours and people fundamentally, they say one thing on the Internet, but when they use the products, they love them and so I think it's super exciting. So yeah, talk about this deal. What were the factors that were most important in getting this right so that fans win, artists win and everyone involved wins? Yeah, certainly, I'm certainly very, very pleased with it. I mean, it's a landmark deal and it's a landmark deal from the vantage point of we're enabling something that is for the first time a legal product for users and fans to actually create these remixes and covers. And what's more is that it's really the first time in a controlled and licensed medium that artists get to partake in the AI economy, really. So that is like the core of it. And then if you think a little bit about what is it that we're doing here. Well, you know, people love, to your point, like people love remixes and covers and they've always done that, but there hasn't been any scaled way to really sort of tap into this opportunity. And what we're doing right now with our product is that we're unlocking this market. So where we think actually in the end it's going to be very additive to both the music industry and ourselves, including artists and songwriters. So it's very cool. We're launching it as a paid add on, which means that, you know, if you have Spotify Premium, you're eligible to actually buy into this add on. And when you have the add on. You can actually go ahead and create remixes it covers. And what's cool with Spotify is that we're very experienced when it comes to free and premium and how to convert people and lead people up the ladder. And so what we're going to do is obviously give you a certain limited usage on premium so you can actually try it out, play with it, create habits around it and then commit to buying add on. But the important point here is that you can think about it as creation is paid for and consumption is included. So basically the output that you create around the Ghana, the Ghana remix that you're going to create, I'll be able to listen it. Everyone will be able to listen to it. Yeah. So I can imagine a world maybe six months from now where the number one track globally on Spotify is a fan made remix. Like, you know, may. May take more time, but it doesn't feel, doesn't feel, doesn't feel impossible. Is there. Is. Do you think this could potentially create a new category of actual artists on Spotify? Would the person that creates a remix ever be able to get, you know, some element of. Of rev share? Or is this like entirely going to be more like, you know, more like a live DJ where you know, you're putting, you're mixing and matching and putting things together and maybe you can build up your brand. You're not getting royalties or any revenue share. Yeah, yeah. I can't speak to the specifics of it, but I can't tell you how I think about it. You know, when I started at Spotify together with Gustavo 16 years ago, we had roughly, I think it was 2 million tracks in the catalog and I've lost count, but I think it's in the order of 200 million tracks now, 15, 16 years later. So the catalog being big and growing is a good thing. And the problem you're talking about, real opportunity is for us to do recommendations. Well, that's always been at the heart of Spotify. If you ask them, why do you love Spotify? Well, most people say, hey, it's because they seem to know me. So we're able to sort of help you discover by way of personalization, help you kind of find your tracks again that you like and so on. So really this is what you're talking to is really a personalization problem. Right. So when this product creates more catalog, our job is to make sure that, you know, the best song gets to the best place.

Best place. Last question. Talk about the app icon redesign. I thought it was really cool. I loved it. We loved it. But I'm interested in the actual. I mean, I want to know how you processed it internally, but that a disco ball could get people. People were really talking about it, but. But my assumption was that, you know, it was. The Spotify icon is on my home screen and I click it when I want to listen to music. But it jumped out to me and I feel like that would show up in the met of jarring people awake. But I'm interested to know what actually happened. Are you going to be changing the icon randomly every five years? Is it got to be every 20 years? What is the learning from doing something sort of bold. Right, so about 10 days ago, we decided to change the Spotify app icon or Spotify logo to one that is more of like a glittery disco ball version of the Spotify logo. And to your point, this just sparked a massive conversation around the Internet on basically every major social platform. And what a lovely and wonderful piece of culture to have a conversation around the change of our logo and icon. So not only users have been sounding off, but also other big brands. OpenAI made their version, suggested that they would make a version like that. KitKat, join in on the funk. So, yeah, so when you have hundreds of millions of people that passionate about culture and art and Spotify, this is what happens, right? So this sparks like a massive conversation that I think is lively and fun. And to be honest with you, the reason why this is happening, having reflected on it a few days later now, it's pretty intense when it happens because there are two sides, right? And then there's also all of this byproduct. You know, the Internet coined a new design term on this called discomorphism. Discomorphism. Oh yeah, I love it. And people have been asking for an answer to flat design. Lots of people have been lamenting how boring things have gotten. You spice it up. And then people are. I didn't mean that. Which is a very funny way to process it, but. Sorry, continue. I mean, the reason why this is happening after having sort of thought about it for a few days and discussed it internally, really, is because we are truly at the intersection of the humanities and technology. And I think we're in a good place when it comes to that. We're at scale. When hundreds of millions of people, potentially even billions, are talking about you, then you did something interesting. I love it. I love it. Yeah, a really, really well executed stunt and yeah, just got everyone talking and reminding. And it's hard to break through with something like a 20 year anniversary with a milestone, but it's important to do something like that. So congratulations. Yeah, thank you. We did it mostly for ourselves in the beginning, but now it turns out that music should be fun. Building a company around music should be fun. Like all of this. Like it's. I know people have their think pieces and their deep dives on contrast ratios and all sorts of things, but like, at the end of the day, it's fun for a company like Spotify to do something fun with an app icon for a few days. I love it. Also, I push back on those people. Me too. I thought I looked exactly like a disco ball would look if you were in a dark room. That's right. Listening to music. Yeah. So I thought it was. I thought it was pure to the. To the disco ball brand. I agree. I agree. That's good. Thank you. Keep it up, man. Anyway, bye.

We went over time. So we will bring in our next guest immediately. We have Christina Lee Storm from Secret Level. Welcome to the show. Sorry, what's happening? What's happening? Hey, how's it going? We're having a little too much fun with our soundboard with a red. I love it. It's great. Sound cues, all sorts of stuff. But since it is your first time on the show, please introduce yourself a little bit. Hi, I'm Christina Lee Storm. I am head of studio over at Secret Level, which is an AI native studio. And I also am co founder over at Playbook plbk. I identify myself as a producer. Like a film. Independent film producer. Yeah. How are you thinking about the blurry line of how AI works its way into productions these days? You have Toy Story with cgi. You also have a little set extension and maybe even a little CGI creeps into a Nolan movie every once in a while. But AI is very different. People are thinking maybe it'll generate the whole movie. Maybe it'll just sort of, you know, make a green screen a little bit sharper. How are you thinking about the opportunities and the trailers? Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because we've had technology in the entertainment industry for a while. I was a consulting producer on a film called Jurassic Punk, which was about the birth of computer graphics. It was about a gentleman who was from Canada. His name was as Steve Williams, and he actually created the first walk cycle, T. Rex for Jurassic park. And he was a total rebel. And in the documentary, we talk about how he just felt like we could do this with computer graphics. At the time, Jurassic park was like, hey, we're going to do it Animatronics. We're going to do it old school. We'll do on set. And there was an ability to actually. Now wait, hold on a second. We could create this. And so when Spielberg and Kathleen Kennedy saw the first walk cycle as he was playing it on his computer screen, just sort of, he knew when they were going to walk by. It changed everything. And that was the birth of computer graphics. So we know that technology has always been a part of that story. And so I think it is. Quite a lot of people like to use the headlines like disruptive. But I think it's just an ongoing process of how things should sort of evolve. And me being my background's traditional production producer, I've been an independent producer for a while. I think it's just. It's part of the process. And I think before, I think a lot of producers would just offline you know, any kind of technology or any specialty to different departments or groups. And today, I think anyone who's going to really survive and thrive into the new world order of this, you know, everything's sort of shifting and changing. We have to actually lean in and there's this interesting, like, technology storytelling, you know, convergence entertainment that is exciting. And I think, you know, that's. Yeah. On the topic of Jurassic park, grade this, grade this prediction. Jurassic park, massive success. The franchise has grossed, I think, billions, maybe over a billion dollars. It's, it's, it's a fantastic financial success. But, but interestingly, Jurassic park, of course, is owned by Universal, but dinosaurs are not particular intellectual property. It's not like Superman. The T. Rex is not something that a studio can own. Oddly, no other studio has created like the Superman to Spider Man. There's not the Marvel Universe to the DC Universe. I would have expected a reaction series to Jurassic park and that IP library at some point. Never, never really developed. But in the age of AI, where it's increasingly easy to generate imagery of dinosaurs and you don't have any intellectual property concerns because you're not recreating a particular actor, I predict that there will be a massive surge in dinosaur themed movies. Great. The Dino Prize. The Coogan Dino Prize. The Dino Prize. Is there anything here? Am I thinking about it correctly? I think that you're on the right track in terms of, like, dinosaurs are not, you know, there's not a particular ip, but here's the thing, and this is sort of where it does fall back to traditional methods. It's like the storytelling is everything, like you could have. There's a lot, there's a lot of different ways, you know, that you can tell and share stories, but it's really, what is the specific, you know, what are the specific things with the character? What's happening, what's the world? And so, yeah, someone could come up with a dinosaur type movie, but what is it? Why is that special? Why is that undeniable for someone to say, yes, I want to watch that and I want to engage in that. So I think the concept of that is good. I think at the end of the day, potentially half baked, but we'll get. Well, that's the difference between really great. No matter what the technology is, you have to still be a really storyteller. Yeah, please. Article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about a new film called Hellgrind that's, I guess, premiering at Cannes. They're saying that it cost half a million dollars to make and around 400,000 of that was compute. Yeah, I'm sure there were. You know, with all these things there ends up being costs that aren't kind of captured on maybe a napkin. Sort of a deep seek moment. Yes. But, but is this the beginning of, of like do you expect hundreds of these over the next year? I imagine you're, you're hearing and seeing a lot that are in the works and working on some yourself. But. Yeah, yeah. So I mean I think there are, you know, can. I actually didn't go this year. I usually go every year. I knew that there was going to be a lot of announcements about different projects and things and at secret level, you know, we actually will have an announcement next week. I was like, should I come on the show today? Because next week there's going to be, you know, so I, at the. I'm happy to come back but at the end of the day I think, you know, it's, it's. Let's just be real. Let me just be real. There's a lot of things that are being pioneered like what are the costs? What's happening here? How do we align with even like guild related things that are issues? You know, how, how can we. It's not just like let me just get this out. You know, I think there's something even bigger to, to that degree. You know, I think people, a lot of people could say yeah, I can make a movie. But I think it's really again, I'm going to go fall back on story. I'm going to fall back on what is the process in which that's going to happen. Like at secret level we do. We have our own proprietary workflow pipeline that really, really allows us to scale and I think those costs, when those get flagged, it's like, yeah, what's the total costs in it? There's. There are a lot of costs and so I don't think, I think it's really. I think when people talk about like the, the budget and they're just focused on the budget, I think they've missed the mark on the bigger. So what, what is your. Maybe it's too early to say, but what do you think is going to be the winning formula? Obviously you're. It's still an experimental time but you said story matters a lot. Obviously technology matters a lot. That what models you'. But where are you thinking of taking, you know, traditional filmmaking approaches versus like reinventing your approach? Yeah, I think there's. Okay, there's a couple of things here. Great questions. Ready I think that there will, you know, we. There was a time where like, independent film was like on the rise. It was awesome. We saw really great filmmakers come out of that, like, you know, going to Sundance and whatnot. And I think that that's really important to feed and bring about, like, creativity. Really great story. So I do believe that with the tools, we have more of an opportunity for independence to sort of bring that to the forefront. But again, you know, story, it's about the story. Like, is it going to be a really great story? I think the other piece is will we see this? I kind of share with this because I've been former studio, surviving studio executive and also a producer. And I think that what's neat is, you know, is the chasm going to widen? Like, how do we sort of bring that? Do we want to bring the chasm closer together so it's not just traditional, you know, studio fare, or do we want to, like, really see these independent voices come out and we can see those play out? And I think as time tells and how people will refine their storytelling abilities, I think that's really important. I think there's also, to be honest, there's a way in which filmmakers who use AI tools are using it at their. The best abilities. Is. Is it almost a slight variation than maybe a traditional approach from, let's just say like a studio, you know, pipeline type film, I think. And that reminds me of like, you know, when, you know, when George Lucas came out, like, you know, he was breaking new ground in technology. It was like, this doesn't exist. So how do we create something that doesn't exist? And I think we have to allow for that creativity to birth. Totally. I want to take a question from the chat. What is your favorite movie? Oh, gosh, I have a lot or maybe something just with a great story that you think is unique. Inception. Inception. That's a great movie. Have you seen that? I have, yeah. There we go. I like to say, and I'm going to embarrass him, our founder, Jason Zada from Secret Level. I call him like the. He's like the blossoming Chris Nolan. And he's just really creative the way he approaches story. Does he use a phone? Christopher Nolan, famously no phone. It's a no phone guy. This week he did an interview with. He doesn't. No email either. Printed out emails if somebody needs to email him. No Phone also doesn't like maps because they reorient you. They don't always face north. And he doesn't consider that a Map. Very interesting lifestyle. Yeah. Anyway, I would say Inception. I would say, like, let's go really old school. It's a Wonderful Life. Ooh. Yeah. And then if I get my, like, just real old school. I love, like, great character based When Harry Met Sally. I'm all over the place. I'm all over the place. I like being that way so people can't say, oh, like sci fi, or she, you know. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. Godfather, Godfather. I saw When Harry Met Sally at an outdoor movie theater. At one of the screenings, you buy tickets to seeing an old movie outside with a bunch of people. Tons of fun. Last question from the chat. What is your single favorite piece of fully AI generated content? It could be like 30 seconds long, a minute long. I can't really expect it. Anything else? I think for us, it's like Harry Potter, Balenciaga, which, funny enough, was like Pope in the throat a year and a half ago maybe, at this point. So if you haven't seen it. Yes, it is a secret level. The heist. Okay. Watch the heist. When Jason shared his first 30 seconds, I was like, okay, okay, we got something. We're cooking. We're approaching some really interesting things. So you can see a lot of things at secret level. Yeah. I love it. Co Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time. Really great to meet you. It's great to meet you. Make sure to share your announcement next week with us. I will cover it on the show. Can't wait. Have a great rest of your day. Cheers. Talk to you. Goodbye. Bye.

You know, we keep making progress or we have accelerating progress. Doesn't that just increase the prize for. Yeah, but it might increase the defensive capabilities. Sure. Yeah. And I think there's there's, like, plenty of other things you can do to be obnoxious. And there's so much. There's look, this is this is why Chamath is wrong about everything, is because it's not all about technology. Like, there are other risks and incentives at and like, institutional dynamics and historical dynamics at play. And there are a whole lot of downsides to starting something that you don't know how. Like, you don't know how it's going to end, which is a lesson that XI has now got to relearn from Putin over the past five years. So, last thing, we touch on it briefly. And then I.

Ridiculous. On other China issues, did you see there are two sort of dueling predictions? Maybe, maybe I'm making them dueling predictions. Chamath Palihapitiya says Taiwan not gonna be a factor geopolitically in 18 months. Dan Wong has talked about how technologists over represent the chip story in the Taiwan story. And in fact the discussion over Taiwan goes back much further and is grounded in more of like capitalist versus communist making an alliances. Where do you stand on the on Taiwan today versus in two years? I have to acknowledge Chamath's existence. I refuse to do that. I think that Taiwan is a place that has mattered for a while and will continue to matter for a very long time to come. I mean first only on the chips thing, the idea like I don't know, ask semi analysis like the percentage of chips that are going to be manufactured in, in Taiwan 18 months from now is still going to be like 85% or 90%. So yeah, it used to, you know, it was 100% for a window. I am glad intel isn't a flaming pile of crap anymore. And it's like nice to see Samsung also starting to get their act together. But if really that's the only thing you care about. No, you will still have a global economic catastrophe if the lights go off in Taiwan in 2028. Now why should you care about Taiwan besides the chips? I mean it's a, it's a democracy. People have, you know, deserve to have self determination. We can set principles aside if we really have to do that. But look, I think from a, from a sort of geostrategic perspective there's also this kind of concept of the first island chain. I think it makes, it makes the broader Pacific architecture that America has built over the course of the past 75 years in Asia a lot more tenuous if all of a sudden the kind of anchor to both Southeast Asia as well as North Asia becomes appealing. And yeah, they're wrong. So many reasons that Taiwan will remain important into the distant future regardless of what happens with intel and TSMC, AZ et cetera. Agree with you on that. What do you think the next catalyst might be?

It would be good for everyone to have a little bit more competition in this space. But we also love Nvidia and that's what our customers want today. That's great. Do you have a view or any opinions or predictions about the compute futures market that's been talked about any. I've seen like these price charts of like B200 is going up and down. Everyone is trying to read the tea leaves, understand you know where we are in the various AI cycles based on it. But is that something that's really relevant or important at all? Do you look at that data? Do you have your own internal data set that's more relevant to you? We look at it a lot. I mean also I feel like we're very plugged into the market. We talk to Neoclass all the time, we get capacity all over the place. So we have a very good pulse of the market. I think the market's going to remain quite tight. I think fundamentally also that's a big part of what we do is we offer that as a product. Don't think about capacity, come to us instead. And so that becomes our problem is like managing that capacity for thousands of companies at the same time. Like we built a multi tenant product to sort of aggregate all that demand. So if you need a thousand GPUs you can come to us and we'll give you to that, give you those GPUs like often within minutes because we have like a very big pool we can sort of tap from. Yeah, but yeah, like I, you know I think GPUs are going to be tight. You look at the prices they keep going up at some point obviously I think it's going to normalize like most markets do but it might remain tight for the next year or two. When I think about the big applications of a big pool of compute, I think training and inference of LLMs coding models, agentic work.

You know, now and committing capital. But what's exciting to you across the. Luckily we have capital now. Yeah, well what's exciting to you across the like semiconductor ecosystem? There's a whole bunch of ASIC startups that have been on the show, Cerebras, IPO'd, every hyperscaler is working on different chips at this point. What's most interesting, what's under discussed, what's on your roadmap or what have you already sort of sunk your teeth into? Yeah, I mean there's some really cool alternative accelerators I'm quite bullish on TPUs, AMD, Trainium, all of these things. We see zero demand from our customers for any of those things to be clear because only the really big labs anthropic can actually go and figure out how to run it. Is that. Exactly. Yeah. I think the cost today of rewriting your software to run on those stacks is just like very high. Sure. So while I remain very bullish on this sort of 2, 3 horizon, I do also want to tamper the expectation a little bit. Like this sort of has a fixed cost to rewriting for that chip stack and if you're not doing billions a month in revenue, it's hard to amortize that cost. That's exactly right. It's just not worth it unless you're operating at a very large scale. But I think that cost is going to go down over time. You're going to have software that basically lets you take existing CUDA compatible stuff and run it on other alternative accelerators. So yeah, I think it would be good for everyone to have a little bit more competition in the space. But we also love Nvidia and that's what our customers want today. That's great. Do you have a view or any opinions or predictions about the compute futures market that's been talked about any I've seen like these price charts?

More catalog. Our job is to make sure that the best song gets to the best place. Last question. Talk about the app icon redesign. I thought it was really cool. I loved it. We loved it. But I'm interested in the actual. I mean, I want to know how you processed it internally, but that a disco ball could get people. People were really talking about it, but my assumption was that it was. The Spotify icon is on my home screen and I click it when I want to listen to music. But it jumped out to me and I feel like that would show up in the metrics of jarring people awake. But I'm interested to know, like, what actually happened? Are you going to be changing the icon randomly every five years? Is it got to be every 20 years? Like, what's the. What is the. Learning from doing something sort of bold. Right. So about 10 days ago, we decided to change the Spotify app icon, or Spotify logo to one that is more of like a glittery disco ball version of the Spotify logo. And to your point, this just sparked a massive conversation around the Internet on basically every major social platform. And what a lovely and wonderful piece of culture to have a conversation around the change of our or logo and icon. So not only users have been sounding off, but also other big brands. OpenAI made their version, suggested that they would make a version like that. KitKat join in on the funk. So, yeah, so when you have hundreds of millions of people that passionate about culture and art and Spotify, this is what happens, right? So this sparks like a massive conversation that I think is. Is lively and fun. And to be honest with you, the reason why this is happening, you know, having reflected on it a few days later now, it's pretty intense when it happens because there are two sides, right? And then there's also all of this, like, byproduct. You know, the Internet coined a new design term around this called discomorphism. Discomorphism. It's kind of funny. I love it. Yeah. And people have been asking for an answer to flat design. Lots of people have been lamenting how boring flat things have gotten. You spice it up. And then people are. I didn't mean that. Which is a very funny way to process it, but. Sorry, continue. I mean, the reason why this is happening after having sort of thought about it for a few days and discussed it really, is because we are truly at the intersection of the humanities and technology. And I think we're in a good place when it comes to that. We're at scale when hundreds of millions of people, or potentially even billions are talking about you. Then you did something interesting. I love it. I love it. Yeah. A really, really well executed stunt and yeah. Just got everyone talking and reminding and it's hard to break through with something like a 20 year anniversary with a milestone, but it's important to do something like that. So congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. We did it mostly for ourselves in the beginning, but now it turns out that should be fun. Building a company around music should be fun. Like all of this. I know people have their think pieces and their deep dives on contrast ratios and all sorts of things, but like, at the end of the day, it's fun for a company like Spotify to do something fun with an app icon for a few days. I love it. Also, I pushed back on those people. Me too. I thought I looked exactly like a disco ball would look if you were in a dark room. That's right. Listening to music. That's right. Yeah. So I thought it was pure to the disco ball brand. I agree. I agree. That's good. Thank you. Keep it up, man. Anyway,

About it, you know, in a much, much more sort of amplified and leveraged way, which I think is fantastic when that happens. Love it. We got to talk about fan made covers and remixes. The new deal with umg. Yeah, super, super excited about this personally. And of course it's been. You got a song you want to cover, you're going to do that. You're finally going to do the Gunna cover you were planning on. What are you listening to? What's your favorite track right now? Is it a Drake track? I've been. No, I think I, I think I was expecting Dr. Grow up by this point in his career and maybe evolve a bit more. I feel like I grew up maybe faster than Drake. He's still obviously, you know, an incredible, incredible superstar. But yeah, John was talking about Gunna. I'm a big Gunna Gunna fan. Oh yeah, yeah. But so I'll be making some Gun covers and remixes. But yeah, talk about this deal. Certainly controversial, but this feels like one of those things that people will have one reaction and then once they hear a good one, which I'm assuming will be, you know, incredibly magical. And you know, we've had Mikey from Suno on the show, he's a friend, friend of ours. And you know, people, people fundamentally, they say one thing on the Internet but when they use the products, they love them. And so I think it's, I think it's super exciting. So yeah, yeah, talk about this deal. What were the factors that were most important in getting this right so that fans win, artists win and everyone involved wins? Yeah, yeah, certainly, I'm certainly very, very pleased with it. I mean, it's a landmark deal and it's a landmark deal from the vantage point of we're enabling something that is for the first time a legal product for users and fans to actually create these remixes and covers. And what's more is that it's really the first time in a controlled and licensed medium that artists get to partake in the AI economy really. So that is like the core of it. And then if you think a little bit about what is it that we're doing here. Well, people love. To your point, people love remixes and covers and they've always done that, but there hasn't been any scaled way to really sort of tap into this opportunity. And what we're doing right now with, with our product is that we're unlocking this market. So where we think actually in the end it's going to be very additive to both the music industry and ourselves, including artists and songwriters. So it's very cool. We're launching it as a paid add on which means that if you have Spotify Premium you're eligible to actually buy into this add on and when you have the add on you can actually go ahead and create remixes and covers and what's cool with Spotify is that we've been, we're very experienced when it comes to free and premium and how to convert people and lead people up the ladder and so what we're going to do is obviously give you a certain limited usage on premium so you can actually try it out, play with it, create habits around it and then commit to buying add on. But the important point here is that you can think about it as creation is paid for and consumption is included. So basically you know, the output that you create around the Ghana, the Ghana remix that you're going to create, you know I'll be able to listen it. Everyone will be able to listen. Yeah. Is there. So I can imagine, I can imagine.

Let's close it out with this video. What you got? Playing catan with a billionaire. Yes, I think. I think you'll like. What is this face? Is this a face filter or a background replacement? Or both? Something funny is going on here. Face filter. Okay, Facebook. My turn. I'm gonna put down a data center. That's against the rules. How else am I supposed to AI generate my Christmas card? Not popular. I'm not joking. Do you like it? No. It's blocking all the land. Wait a minute. Are you one of those paid protesters? Next turn, I'm gonna use 7 water on my data center. That's not how that works. That's not a resource. How else am I supposed to power it? The water stuff is really. It's so interesting that no one has moved to energy like natural gas. There are natural gas turbines that would be opposed. And yet people are focused on. Stop giving them ideas. I know. I'm doing their job for them, I suppose, but it's like, I don't know how. I don't know why the water. I think it's just because, like, water's delicious and electricity is vague and abstract and you don't think about it. Like, you can visualize a glass of water. It's hard to visualize a battery in the same way, but. Yeah. What is it? It's like. It's like dozens of LLM queries every day for a full year is equivalent to eating a single almond. Something like that.

Go to market with this particular product. Great question. So I've been with Spotify for, I think it's now almost 16 years. And this is one of the most lovely improvements to Spotify Premium that we've done, I guess, since the founding, really. So you're right, you know, it's long overdue. It's a great one. And the reason why it's so great, it's really that it solves a couple of different problems. One is, you know, who hasn't been sitting there in front of a website trying to get tickets for a concert? It's very hard, and if you get it, it's going to cost you a lot. Right. And the second thing is, even if you get tickets, it may not be to the artists that you actually listen to and love. So this solves that. So what we're launching is basically we're giving you. We're holding tickets for you for a certain time window for you to just go and pay and collect with our partners. So it really solves the problem in a unique way because we're matching the tickets and the concerts and the participating artists and tours with. With the users on our platform that are actually the true fans of this. And we look at it from many standpoints, like, not just the number of streams that you're doing, so you can't just grind yourself there. It's also catalog engagement and so on. Yeah. So it's terrific. This is a fantastic improvement in Spotify Premium. Yeah. A new problem which will be ticket scalpers setting up, you know, infinite. Paying the monthly subscription fee for years just to try to run algorithms. No, but I think it's absolutely brilliant. Solves a problem, you know, even. Even from the artists, like being in this position where you're trying to make your ticket prices affordable for your fans, but due to market dynamics, no matter where you price it, they'll. They'll go. They'll go way up. And then the only beneficiary in that transaction is the. Is the person that's just buying the tickets to resell and everyone else loses. So I think you're totally right. I mean, there's like many things that.

Unclear on how it interfaces with the labor market. Yeah, I mean, I think the trend is increases in the division of labor, which Adam Smith talked about from the pin factory. And when you apply that idea of the pin factor, somebody shapes the pin, somebody puts it on and that's how you get increases in. When you apply that to the knowledge economy, then it's exactly as you said. You no longer have a physician, you have a podiatrist and you have an optometrist and you have ear, nose, throat specialist and so forth, so forth. And yeah, I think that will continue and they will all be using, you know, AI for sure. Right. But yeah, they're going to get more, more specialized and the tasks which physicians do will differ, will change. But so far I'm not terribly worried about the job market per se. Look, this is a problem of people are worried about, oh, the AI is going to do all the jobs. This means we're going to be fabulously wealthy. And you know, even without any jobs, just being fabulously wealthy, we'll figure things out. This is the sort of problem you want to have. Again, this is not like a tornado or hurricane, a tsunami which destroys wealth. This is a tsunami which creates wealth. And yes, it could be a tsunami in the sense that it's going to be very dramatic, okay? But it's going to be very dramatic like, you know, Santa Claus coming and leaving us goods, you know, under the, under the Christmas tree. So that's drama that we can, we can handle. It won't be, it won't be without problem. Okay? But problems where the pie gets bigger are problems that we can solve. You know, it's problems when the pie gets smaller. When we are forced into, into a zero sum society of one person versus another. That's when society breaks down, not when the pie is getting bigger. We'll figure out ways to make sure everyone gets a decent slice. If the pie is getting so much bigger, we can solve the problem of dividing it up with everybody being happy. I'm much less worried about that. How do you.

That I didn't know that numbers Messi, the football player prime copycat called Moss Moss and it's shutting down after 23 months in business. I wonder if that has to do with the logistics of shipping internationally, because he is an international icon, but setting up distribution and retail presence across many countries very quickly, it's not quite as easy as dropping it on Amazon and flying off the shelves. A lot of those are sort of one country by country, and I wonder if that has a piece of what happened. So this is shutting down fully. MAS plus Interesting. Well, Mitchell, Boss.

Still chugging along. And so San Francisco clearly made it through a trough and is on a major, major upswing. Jordan, what, what data are you most obsessed with following to try to understand the current moment? We see, we see AI in the GDP data primarily through CapEx right now. But what kind of productivity data are you looking at? You know, we've been very excited about, you know, what, what, what we've seen from Stripe. They have this incorporation product and they're seeing companies, you know, more companies formed, growing revenue faster. That's very exciting. But it's also like a certain type of person finds themselves incorporating their business with Stripe and is not perfectly a reflection of the economy more broadly. So what are you looking at to try to understand the impact and try to ignore maybe the headlines from CEOs that say, oh, we laid off this 20% of people because of AI, because, you know, as we know, oftentimes it's marketing. Yeah, it's very interesting. There's a lot of theories, you know, about is this going to be a job apocalypse or something like that. Not much data. And of course, all of the data we have so far is that AI is increasing the number of jobs, not decreasing the number of jobs. What I'm most excited about and most interested in seeing is the effect of AI on medical care. So, you know, we just saw yesterday that I had, you just had it on your, on your show, you know, had proved a new mathematical theorem or counter, counter proof. So AI is making these inroads into the highest levels of mathematics. If we could do that for drug discovery, if we could have a 5% reduction in cancer mortality, that would be worth trillions. That would be worth trillions. The opportunities there for AI to make tremendous leaps in human welfare by improving medical care, health care, I think are really exciting and well within the realm of possibility. You know, one new drug, like solving an airdose problem, that would be incredible. And what does that mean in the labor market? I'm just, I'm thinking back to like there was a time when.

Sometimes. Anyway, son Al Gheeb says, can someone check on Gary February 23, 2026? He said, turns out, Jenny, I was a scam. I had to check the date on this because this seems like something he would have written in like 2024. And I would have been like, ah, okay, yeah, maybe the usages are a little limited. Maybe where there is some sort of wall here, the data wall or you know, maybe we won't be able to, you know, maybe we will need new, new paradigm. But to Write this in 2026 when we're in like the acceleration in terms of actual value from these models is pretty, pretty remarkable. I'm interested to see where he goes from this. Is he going to double down? Is he going to stick with this? It has been a couple of months since I think, I think there's, I think, I think the, the entire crypto boom and NFTs in particular just broke a lot of people's brains. Yeah, NVR metaverse too. Metaverse. Another thing that was Metaverse. And under delivered Metaverse. Yeah. Potentially even more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a lot of discussion about this will destroy Hollywood, this will destroy movies, like everything but the metaverse. There was never, there was never a moment where you could use a product and have a mind blowing experience. Well, without paying for it. Like you had to buy. No, no, I'm just saying, I'm just saying like period. No, no, no. The Apple Vision Pro demo. Like there was a day you called me and you were like, why is everyone losing their mind on the timeline over the Apple Vision Pro? Do I need to buy one of these? And I was like, it's kind preview. It's not like perfectly there. I like it. But it's. I don't even think I. But there was, I don't think you're remembering correctly because there was no moment where I wanted to buy one. No, no, no, you didn't want to. But you recognize that it was the current thing. When the Apple Vision Pro launched for like that week when everyone got them delivered and they tried them, there were a lot of people, they had Vision Pro psychosis. Vision Pro psychosis. A lot of people had NFT psychosis. All sorts of psychosis. We'll see how the AI psychosis develops. It goes both ways.

And Peter Hague says, just reading the SpaceX SEC document, one thing that sticks out is the capital spend on AI is 3x that on space. It's an AI company with some rockets, which is a wild, wild pivot. At the last. It's the 11th hour. You know, this has been a rocket company for 20 years or 15 years. Then an Internet company with Starlink, but that was still so tied and so clear and so quick to get to, like a logical link. Like, you needed the launch capacity, capacity to build Starlink. And so you had this new capability, satellite Internet. It was amazing. And it went from idea to launching the satellites to consumers actually using it when they're traveling, camping off the grid, real. And then showing up in planes and all sorts of different applications. It became very, very relevant, very real very quickly. And the, the Colossus X, that felt like a different company because it was, it felt like a different initiative, but it has just become so, so, so big so quickly. Yeah. And looking back at the plays Elon and his investors have made around this over the last year, right there was. That felt like somewhat of a coordinated effort at the. Was it beginning of this year, late last year, when suddenly everyone started talking about space data centers. Very suddenly. Remember Gavin Baker? Yeah. Started coming out. That's around the time when they sort of floated the. I believe it was December of last year. Started floating. Floating the idea of, like, what the potential valuation would be. Started building that AI narrative. Started, you know, made a play for Cursor, you know, partnered with Anthropic, even though, you know, only a few months ago they were much more combative. Yeah. Name calling. So, yeah, he, you know, I think this is why Elon has been able to accumulate so much capital. Is like, he is pretty much the best in the world at just making plays. Yeah, Making plays and doing whatever it takes. Yeah. So.

Has had a couple interesting takes. People are going back and forth. Overall, the reception has been the S1 is an extremely enjoyable read. Kevin Kwok says it's the most enjoyable S1 read in a long time. Reads so easy like sci fi or fiction. And it's kind of the perfect post or just regular. Because if you're pro tech, you like space, you're excited about space, that could be a positive. Yes. But if you're, if you're a bear, you can say it reads almost like science fiction. Pure fiction. Science fiction, of course. The best TAM slide ever. Probably the best TAM slide ever. Sawyer Merritt has the screenshot here. SpaceX and IPO filing we believe we have identified the largest actionable total addressable market in human history. We estimate that our Quantifiable TAM is $28.5 trillion, consisting of 370 billion in space from space enabled solutions, 1.6 trillion in ConnectIV, 870 billion in Starlink broadband and 740 billion in Starlink mobile, as well as additional opportunities in enterprise and government. 26.5 trillion in AI across, 2.4 trillion in AI infrastructure, 760 billion in consumer subscriptions, 600 billion in digital advertising. That's massive. Well, is that for X? I don't know the idea. So so. And 20 everything else is more believable. Everything else is more believable to me than X getting meaningful digital advertising penetration. Yeah, I guess the time matters here because a lot of these markets aren't this big currently, I think. I don't know. But I guess over time, if you think about the next 25 years, the next hundred years, I don't know if these are inflation adjusted, but there's lots of things that could happen for illustrative purposes of sizing our addressable market. SpaceX excluded China and Russia from global estimates. I feel like you might want to put in China and Russia over the next couple decades. Who knows, maybe we become best buds with both companies, with both countries, you know, anything can happen.