Job's not finished, but we have our next guest, Rick Caruso, live with us in the TVPN Ultradome. Welcome to the show, Rick. Please take a seat. And I just want to say thank you so much. Pleasure. Yeah. Thanks for having me and speak with us. How is your 2026 going so far? It's going well. Thank you for asking. Yeah, yeah. Very good. Family's good? Yes. Business is good, so I have no complaints. What. What is on the top of your mind for this year, next year? What are your biggest goals? Are you talking about from a business standpoint? I'm talking about from an everything standpoint. From an everything standpoint. Zoom out. And I want to.360.360. What does a great next year look like for you? A great next year starts out with a lot of happiness and health with the family first and foremost. That's all I care about. Always. Yeah. And we just became grandparents, so that's. Congratulations. It's really a great thing. Oh, the place goes wild. The place has to go wild. The place goes wild. Over Luca. Luca Caruso. Luca. Yeah, Luca. Italian name. I love it. And on the business front, we are pushing really hard and growing. We've got two projects already under construction, one in Calabasas. We're expanding the commons at Calabasas, residential tower and more retail. And we bought. I can't say where yet because we haven't completely announced it yet, but we bought a golf course and a club, and that's under construction. And we're expanding our club business, and we're going to start generally in California, Louisiana. But I just spent a lot of time, as maybe you see on my social media, I was in Nashville, we were in Austin. We were down in Florida this last week and making a big push to be developing outside the state. What does pushing look like for you in the real estate context? Does it mean going broader on the fundraising side, on the prospecting side, evaluating more properties, hiring more staff to evaluate more potential projects? Good questions. So we're a little bit unique. Everything that we do, we've done on our own balance sheet. Yeah. So we're not out raising funds. Yeah. And we've continued to grow on our own balance sheet. So when we're looking at pushing, there's really multiple levels because we're fully integrated as a company. Yeah. So we not only design and build our projects in house and we bring in outside contractors and outside architects, but we oversee it all in house. We operate all of our properties in house. And so we are just like A dog on a bone in terms of pushing our operating profits, generating more cash flow and at the same time elevating the guest experience, which at all costs can never be sacrificed. And then at the same time, we're putting new projects in the pipeline. And we're very disciplined about how we do that, what our returns look like. So that's the big push. And we want properties that are irreplaceable, that are in high barriers of entry, and we want properties in cities and states that actually respect and want our investment. And we think our investment is safe. And since it's, you know, our own capital, my own capital, we're very careful about how we invest it, but we can make decisions very quickly because we don't have a lot of committees to go through. Have you ever had doubts about that model? We don't see a lot of venture capital firms in the tech industry that we see some very high GP commits. We don't see very many firms that have no outside LPs at all. Jane street in High Frequency is notorious for also not having LPs. Have you ever considered it or has it been. The model works. Don't think it creates a better. I feel like it. Ultimately the. The client, the customer wins. Because if you're spending your own money on something, like the experience has to be fantastic. Yeah, well, I think that's right. I mean, I think that's right. There's a couple things there. So when I started the company about 40 years ago, I would have never been able to raise money and do what I wanted to do. So it just wasn't an option. Well, if I would have, you know, even more recently, if I would have said to you or anybody else, I'm going to go build a hotel up in Montecito on the beach. And it's going to be a five star hotel. But I got one small problem here. We got a train that runs through the property. I don't know if you've been up to Miramar. I was there. I stayed there this weekend. Okay, I'm going to go there. I go there all the time. You'll laugh at this. I'm in Malibu. But when my wife and I want to get away. It was our wedding anniversary. We love going to the Rosewoods. Which is so funny. Cause I'm like, I'm literally living on the beach in Malibu. And I'm like, I need to get away for a week. Go straight to the beach. Pretty good. You're in Rare air, though. No, but the funny thing is, my Mom's side of the family is from Orange county, so I have, like a love for the surfliner right. That runs through Orange county, too. So when I'm at the Rosewood, it feels like I'm at home. And I would tell you that before the hotel was built, just describing that rightfully so, you'd say, you're crazy. You just can't put a five star hotel with a train running through the property six, seven times a day. So, you know, the question is, can you take pieces of real estate and do something really special? We have a rule in the company also that every piece of real estate's got some kind of issue. So you can either isolate that issue or you could celebrate that issue. I can't isolate a train, so I better figure out how to celebrate the train and make the train an amenity to the property. And I say that just, I could have never fundraised around the Miramar right now, maybe now I could. And we're actually looking at a model that would allow. Because we get a lot of requests from firms to joint venture with us and whatnot. So we're starting to look at that model. And I think maybe we could do that now. Because even if I said to somebody, okay, I'm gonna go build the Grove, I'm gonna turn my back on the street, I'm gonna create my own street, and then we're gonna have this trolley going up and down, and actually the trolley goes nowhere, but it's gonna be really cool. They would have said, no, the trolley's gone. We're not paying for the trolley. If you didn't have the trolley at the Grove, the Grove guys would be obsessed with trains. I love it. I know. No, no, they make themselves. I know. A lot of guys are. Okay, Speaking of your childhood, speaking of starting out in a point where no one would finance these projects, did you have a mentor or did you have sort of a historical legend that you look to the way a value investor might look to a Warren Buffett or a technologist might look to Steve Jobs. Did you have someone that you were identifying with or learning from in the early days? I had my dad. Yeah. My dad was my best friend and certainly a mentor. He started his own business. He was an entrepreneur, and he was a great advisor. He was the one that literally drove to my house. We spoke every night after work. We never worked together, but after I announced that I was buying the Miramar, he literally drove to my house that night saying, you've lost your mind now. Which I actually respect. What was the state of Miramar when you bought it? Was. Was there was a lot of the old buildings were still there. Pretty decrepit, all. But it wasn't. No, it was not an operating property. It stopped operating for about 15. I mean, it was just falling apart. Falling apart. We were the third buyers into it and I bought it from Ty Warner, who tried to get it developed and couldn't. And then Ty bought it from. I'm blanking on the name that has ty Warner of Studio 50 Me Baby's fame. Yeah. Wow. And who had Studio 54 in New York. I know I'm dating you. I'm familiar with Studio 54. He bought it before Ty and they couldn't get it developed, so we were the third group into it from the original family. But listen, I think curiosity is one of the most important things in business. And so I study a lot of people, I study a lot of companies. I've done it my whole career. I think meeting people in your industry or outside of your industry is really critically important. And I cold call people and I'll say, do you mind having a cup of coffee? I have zero agenda. I just want to understand how you think, what you do, how you became successful. And I learn a lot from that. I think it's a constant learning arc that I'm involved in. So if you don't need to worry about or deal with wrangling outside investors for a new project, who are the stakeholders that you're trying to build a constituency with to make sure that a project goes flawlessly or has the best possible outcome? Because there's retail shops, there's employees, there's the local community. How do you think about them? And making sure that everyone is aligned throughout the process. Well, first and foremost, it's the guest experience. So we have a guest experience and then we have a customer experience. The guest experience is you guys coming by with your families, shopping, staying with us, whatever. The customer experience is our customers, Nordstrom, Alo, Apple, whoever we're doing business with, we have to be really great landlords and deliver great value to them. And we want to make sure we're taking care of their customers really well. And then we think about our employees. We want to have an environment where people are excited to work, we work hard. There's a lot of intensity at our office because we tend to be perfectionists. And we're trying to constantly reinvent the curve on these properties. And so I want to take care of my employees. I have an incredible team of people. And then you know, it's my family, because I want this company to be dynastic. I want it to live long after I live and hand it down to the family. So I think about all of those people. But every day that all of us wake up, we are literally thinking about the guest experience and how we continue to elevate that and make it something really special. On that guest experience. I heard a conspiracy theory that I want you to address. Can't wait to hear it. I heard a conspiracy theory that the guest experience is so important that 90% of the people that you see at the Grove are paid actors. Yeah. Everyone you're sitting next to on the train, the person that's looking at the fountain, excited, not just. Not the people in the Apple Store, not the people serving you food, but the people walking around. And on certain days, I might be the only real, normal guest. Is there anything to that? Could be. Could be. I don't know. Could be. I'd hate to have that payroll. That does sound like a thousand extra. 18 million people coming through the Grove. That's a hell of a payroll. 18 million people come through. Okay. Your dad thinks you're crazy. When you buy Miramar, at what point does he call you and say, I think you might be onto something? Ooh. Well, you know, Pop was Pop. The greatest gift that he gave me was permission not to go into his company. He was in the car business, and I know he wanted me to be in the car business with him in the worst way. But I think that's one of the greatest gifts your parents can give you is to say, all right, go do what you want to do. You're good at and passionate about. He never lived long enough. He died when he was in his 90s. He never lived long enough to see the completed product. But I know that Pop would be very proud of it. He didn't understand the Grove at first. It's like, what are you doing? And why are you doing it that way? But he was always super supportive. But I think the conversations we had every night, it was not only a father and a son. It was a father and a son who were both in business. And him challenging me was, like, really important, because I didn't grow up in the real estate business. I had no background in the real estate business. So it's not like I came out of this industry or from an industry. And I knew what all the rules were. I actually believe very strongly that one of the reasons we've been successful is I didn't know the rules. And so I didn't know I was breaking a lot of rules. I didn't know I had to build a property with a roof and no sunlight and no windows and no landscaping and make you feel like you're walking through a prison. That is the default. Right. If I would have grown up in the mall industry, that's what I would have built. Yep. But it was great having him challenge me with many, many people challenging me along the way, including communities that we serve. That goes to the other priority of people we're thinking about. We're very, very protective and supportive of the communities we're in, whether it's Montecito or LA or Calabasas. And it's. They're good. Have any data center developers called you and said, how do you do it? Like, what's your playbook? Because, you know, data centers are ugly. They don't employ a lot of people. They're probably a harder sell than a lot of the developments that. That you've done. But you certainly have faced a lot of opposition over time, but got people around and got them aligned and ultimately created spaces that I think make whatever area they're in better. Thank you. Well, a data center doesn't need to worry about any of that. I mean, they need to get their permits. And I know there's a lot of push against data centers now. Yeah. But they don't have a guest experience to worry about other than they're doing what they're intended to do. So, no, they've never reached. But don't you think maybe they should? Because if they were less eyesores, they might be. They might face less footage. They could. That's true. There's nothing. Listen, I'm a big believer. It's always good to make things really, really nice and attractive, and we spend a lot of time and a lot of money making things nice and attractive, and it always has worked to our benefit. Is feng shui a valuable 100%? Everything is Feng shui. Explain that. How did you. How did you get into feng shui? We got into it because I started studying it a little bit. And in fact, when you take a look at the grove, our advisor in feng shui, Catherine, does every one of our properties. She reviews all of our plans before a property is built. She is on the property before we open, blessing it and all the things that need to be done. And it's respectful of a culture that we care about as a guest, but it also makes a lot of sense from a development standpoint. So the way the railroad at the Grove goes. And how it moves and turns was very important not to intersect or get too close to the fountain. Because that's bad feng shui. It would be cutting off a lifeline. The number that's on the trolley was feng shui. Now it ends up being. Which most people don't know. It ends up being my birthday. There's all these things in all of our properties. So the number for the trolley is 1759, being 1-7-59, which I wanted to use, but we had to make sure it was properly feng shui'd. Interesting. The hotel was. Did you have any projects early on that didn't work that you now attribute to poor feng shui? I don't think he can talk about it, but I know that he passed on something. But. Yeah. Cause I think everyone, whether or not they've even read about feng shui, believe in it, all these things. Everyone has been in a space and being like, there's nothing objectively wrong with this apartment or store or hotel, but it's just bad. Doesn't feel right. Doesn't feel right. And I've had a home where I never use one or two rooms. And for some reason, you gotta feng shui your current office. Your back is to the door. That's a crime. Yeah. That's not good. Oh, that's true. No, seriously. There's countermeasures. Yeah. You can use countermeasures. Yeah. It's interesting. I think that feng shui is important, along with a million other things are important. We are so focused on making that guest feel comfortable in the space. And that's why we go around the country and we go around the world actually studying spaces. We'll look at retail centers, we'll look at malls. We'll look at ones that work, and we'll look at ones that don't work. But mostly what we're doing is we're studying streets. And so when you go to the Grove or you go to the Americana, whatever, the height of that curb, the slope in that street, how the railroad is sitting there, the fact that there's gutters and there's drains and there's all these things, they're there because your eye picks it up. If we would have built the Grove as a flat plaza without curbs and gutters, you wouldn't read it in your mind as a street. So the rhythm of the trees, the rhythm of the street lights, we study all of that stuff. And we actually had a landscape architect on the Grove that threatened to quit because he wasn't going to design curbs and gutters. He said, people are going to trip. I said, people don't trip walking around the cities. Why are they going to trip here? And then he finally came around. But we studied the Grove is patterned very much in scale down in Charleston. We studied Charleston in terms of building depths and, and whatnot. But all of that's really important. How, how did you experience the.com era? Were there people telling you that retail was going to be over? You may as well shut down now. The Internet is going to be everything because we have a lot of people in our, you know, in the technology industry that are building, building products that are either, you know, that benefit from AI or are threatened by AI or totally unknown yet. And so a lot of people are going through an existential crisis. How did you, did you ever, did you ever doubt, did you ever believe in the more out there Internet pitches that you were getting or were you always confident? I was always confident. I tell you why, and maybe it's because I'm naive. You were right. I'm not trying to be arrogant about it either. No, no, but it was a good philosophy. But here's, here's why. If you looked at it through my lens, why did I go in the retail business? I was never in the development business, so why did I go in the retail business? Well, I went in the retail business because I love people and I loved real estate. So where am I gonna do something where I can marry people in real estate? And I started in the warehouse business and that was just hugely boring to me because I could care less at the end of the day about dock high loading and clear spans. And there were no people there. It was just a bunch of trucks. So I got into retail because as a young kid visiting family in Italy, I was always taken by the piazzas. And at the end of the afternoon, the sun's going down a little bit, the people are coming out, the kids are running around, somebody's having a glass of wine, there's a little music in the back. Very, very. My family came from a very poor, very modest town. Didn't matter. There was this joy of life. I wanted to duplicate that. That to me is my psychic income is this. You're like, the Internet's not going to do this thing. It can't copy it. And from the beginning of time, what have we done as human beings? We've gathered, we went around a fire, right? We protected each other. We're just human beings in that way. So the last thing I would say is there's always been multiple ways to buy a product. There was the Sears catalog long before there was the Internet. Right. And so nobody buys just with one channel. And the best retailers, I want them to have a really robust online operation because that means they're a better retailer. So it doesn't scare me at all. And our business has grown. Our CAGR is 18%. So I'm not too worried about. I don't know. What was that? That's a air horn. What's been your thought process? You have such an incredible presence in California, such an incredible track record. You've made so many of our communities like better spaces. I feel I didn't live in the Palisades, but I would go to the Palisades. You know, your, your, your property there at least once or probably twice a week on average. Thank you. Just passing through. And when, after the fires, it felt like, like some part of our community was just gone. Yeah. And what, what has been your. I imagine people from all over the US have tried to entice you to bring this kind of scale to their states. What has been. When have you, when have you indulged in those conversations? You mentioned earlier in the conversation exploring more opportunities outside of the state. What has been the thought process was there early, like a loyalty to California? It was. Seems like it was your. I'm a big believer. It's a great question. I'm a big believer that if you want to create generational wealth in real estate, it gets done because you know the area incredibly well and you're local. And when you take a look, and I'll give you an example, if you look at the Palisade, so many people said the Palisade's just never going to work. There's not enough people there. People would even say they don't go out at night. It's a bedroom community. Just not the case. The. There was nothing to go out to. Right. And the case study for the Palisades, because I live in Brentwood park and if you live on that side of the 405, you cannot literally travel east. After about 3 o', clock, it is bumper to bumper to get over the 405. So you have this enormous population that's Balkanized, that can travel west easily to dinner and the movies and shopping, including the other side of the 405 Bel Air, Holmby Hills, that can travel. So to me, it was understanding that dynamic of how the mobility of people, almost like the feng shui of the city. Well, feng shui but also just the actuality of the mobility of how people moved. So I've always wanted to stay local because that local knowledge is critically important. And if you look at the most successful businesses in real estate in any category, it's usually local families. And you get that from a feel, not from data, I assume you get it from a feel, you get it from learned information or living it. Yeah, you're stuck in bumper to bunker traffic, you know, you don't need to. I drove my kids to school every morning and I know at 8 o' clock in the morning you can barely go and if you want to go pick them up at 3, you need an hour to get to the 405. Yep. So that I think is super important. What we would do is if we go outside the state, and we're going to go outside the state for a number of reasons, we would just make sure that we have a lot of really local talent surrounding us to backfill that kind of knowledge that we're going to need. Why are you going out of the state then? What are the reasons? Well, California and Los Angeles are very difficult to invest in anymore, especially LA City. We have not built anything new in LA City since the Palisades very intentionally because it's too over regulated, too expensive, too unpredictable. And frankly, you know, we spend an enormous amount of money on our properties, on security, because the city, you know, has struggled with having enough police and we're very adamant on having a very safe, secure environment on our properties. So I want to move our capital. I hate leaving la, but I want our capital to go into places that I know is going to grow and be safe now. I don't have to leave California to do that. That's why we're investing in Calabasas. It's a great community. We'd love to do more in Glendale. Incredibly good communities, safe schools, clean streets, safe streets. Those are the kind of things we're looking for. But there's also great growth happening in like Nashville. I was born. How many years do you feel like you kind of raised your hand with the local government and said, hey, these things aren't working. We need to make changes because like, because this wasn't something that overnight you were like, oh, this city doesn't feel safe anymore, I'm going to move out of state or I'm going to move out of, I'm going to move up to a different county. You know, listen, a lot of years and I worked for three mayors. I had the benefit of working for Tom Bradley When I was in my 20s, as a commissioner, I worked for Dick Reardon. As a commissioner, I worked for Jim Hahn as the head of the police commission. So I understand the safe. So I worked for the city for 17 years while I was growing my business. So I understand it well. I understand what was working and I understand what's failing. And so much of what we're doing now is just failing because we have leaders that frankly aren't qualified and they're incompetent and they're not bad people. They just don't know what they're doing. And if you look at other cities, it blows my mind on how well they're doing. There's no reason that LA shouldn't be doing well. It's only not doing well because our leadership isn't making smart. Aren't making smart decisions and we're paying the price for it. Jordy, follow up there. Are you going to run for president? No. It says here you're here to announce your. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Comment. Yeah, right. How about that? For breaking. What other. What other. But, but I don't want to be. You know, let me add, before I interrupt you, I. I'm a very optimistic person and I love this city. Yeah. And I believe in the city. We're not moving out of the city. We're not doing anything like that. And I think this city will get back to where it should be in terms of being the most productive city in the country. It just has to, and it will eventually, with the right leaders. I was optimistic during your campaign. Well, I tried. I've heard a lot of negative takes on LA and things that are going right. And I just keep coming back to, like the waves crash on time and the sun shines on time. And so Los Angeles will be great for a very long time. And. And the rest of the things are solvable? Well, yeah, I think because of the natural environment, it sort of enabled some poor government. You get a lot of shots on gold, there's always new people. You do get more shots on gold, but you do have a net decrease of population. That's what's going on right now, unfortunately. Just like I remind people, if we operated the Grove and it was dirty, there were encampments, it felt unsafe. People vote very quickly with their feet. No different in cities. Sure. And so there is a tipping point that people are going to say, you know what, I know the weather's great, I know the views are great, blah, blah, blah. But my quality of life now, or the quality of life for my children have gotten to a point that it's not worth it anymore and we should never get to that edge, continue to make this decision. We work here in Hollywood, but our families are not in the city. We both moved out of the city and I would love to buy a home in the city someday, but there's a bunch of things that would have to change. What cities and states do you think have the best sort of business environment right now? What's appealing? Because I'm sure there's places that would love to have your business and would offer a number of incentives to try to bring you out there. But then I'm sure there's places that are just already great and you want to set up shop. Well, we've spent time, like I said, we spent time last week in Nashville. I was very impressed. I met with the mayor of Nashville, very impressed with him. There's a lot going on there and businesses moving there, but the streets are clean. You know, the environment was great and people are happy. You can feel the energy along the streets. So it was terrific. Austin was the same way. We're focused on Austin last week or. Yeah, it was last week. We've been moving around a lot. We just covered a big chunk of the state of Florida from Palm beach to Coconut Grove. A lot of interesting opportunities. Coconut Grove is a very cool city down there, so we're looking at a lot of places. But I would also say in California, like our property in Montecito. I think that region of Santa Barbara is managed very well. Yep. And we're doing another project up there. We're expanding the retail up at the hotel. We're starting that at the end of this year. We're investing a lot of money in workforce housing for our own employees, actually on the property so our employees can live there. And Calabasas is a good example. We're putting in another 130 million. That was a property that I built 30 years ago. It's effectively that downtown, but it's an incredibly well run city. Good schools, good neighborhoods and it's safe and clean. And same with Glendale. I mean, Glendale is a phenomenal city and we want to invest more in Glendale, so you don't have to go far. Culver City's done a hell of a job. I mean, look at the what's boomed in Culver City with the offices that have gone there. Yeah. I was shocked at the office lease prices in Culver. Well, look at Century City. It's part of la. Yeah. Yeah. But it's the part of LA because it's sort of this contained bubble that's clean, safe. There's a lot of emphasis by the ownership there versus downtown. Basically the same office product and the office product downtown because of the homeless problem and the crime. You have a 40% vacancy rate. You go to Century City, you have the highest rent probably in the United States outside of New York City. So that just tells you what people are looking for. What do you think it takes to make it in real estate in 2026 if you're an up and comer? I think the opportunities are huge. You know, you mentioned I, I would tell you, I think anybody coming into whatever industry today, coming out of college, the opportunities are now endless because the world is on a pivot and it's going to be a little bit inefficient. And in inefficiencies are the greatest opportunities. And because there's so much uncertainty how AI is going to impact different industries, that's the best time to be leaning into it and then finding out how, if you want to be in real estate, how AI is going to create a better guest experience, how it's going to create lower costs of building, how it's going to create lower costs of operating, designing. I mean, we do things now in our company through AI I would have never thought we could do a year or two years ago. And my, one of my biggest frustrations is I'm constantly pushing the team. What more can we do in AI? Are we adopting everything we should be adopting? And so I think it's just jumping in, jump in, get in it, take any job you can is what I tell people coming out of college. Work really hard. Don't necessarily do what you're just passionate about. That's great. Do what you think you're really good at. And if you're really good at something and it marries up with passion, then that's unstoppable. And then you just keep going. We'll close the challenge for everyone listening. Use AI to Feng shui your home office, wherever you work. There you go. Take a picture of it, upload it to ChatGPT. Tell it that's actually redesign this way, John. I think it'll work. I think we're close. That's brilliant. AI might be able to reposition your tasks next generation the way you marry those. I actually got into feng shui like two or three years ago, redid my whole office. It was so much more relaxing. I'm a true, true believer. But you married one of the oldest cultural science with the cutting edge science. It's very cool. Yeah, it can take time to get up to speed. You should have a horn. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We will wrap up here. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter@tvpn.com and we will see you tomorrow. Goodbye. Out check.

Up next, we have Augustus from Rainmaker who's the CEO and founder. He's teal fellow and he's in the TVPN ultradome live with us in studio in Hollywood. Welcome to the show. You're looking fantastic. Thank you. And not as good as Jordy in the Rainmaker green suit. Yeah. You did that just for me. Background. Everything fits. Give us the update. How's life? How are things going? Blessed. Better than ever. Rainmaker is the first company in human history to unambiguously repeatedly modify the weather, improve it. Okay, yeah. This past year, break it down. When did this happen? Where? So, you know, I've known you guys for a while. It's pretty tough to be the mulleted kid running around saying that you're going to modify the weather for a few years without being able to prove it. The mullet looks less mullety. It's a little just out of. You're growing out the front. So now it's party in the front, party in the back, party everywhere. I would say either party or just disheveled all around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But across our operations in Oregon, Idaho, Utah, and the Middle East. East, we've been able to run these operations. And in areas with otherwise no precipitation whatsoever, see snow happen exclusively downwind, where our measured and modeled aerosols are going. And so for anybody that's not familiar with cloud seeding, it's this technology that's been around for 80 years. General Electric invented it in 1946. I would actually be shocked if there's someone in tech that is not familiar with cloud seeding. Just because you've been around, you've been around the circuit for the last few years. But give it to us again, someone, anybody's been living under a data storm. We'll start with what a cloud is. Yeah, yeah. Scientists don't actually know. That's a separate question. By the way, speaking of people not in. This goes deeper than I thought. People that might not heard of cloudstream before. I was talking to some big fancy show producers, and we were like, hey, do you want this story? And they're like, well, maybe if you go on TBPN first, then we would take it. And so there's some other hits this week that it's all credited to you. But the long story short is there's lots of clouds that have small drops of liquid water in them, too small to naturally fall. If you can find those clouds, release the right material into them, those drops will freeze onto your dust and become big enough to fall Problem is, if you blast a cloud and then it snows, who's to say whether you actually made it snow? Attribution. Attribution. Oh, he's reading the investor updates. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like brand marketing. Yeah. But now the most, like normie interpretable attribution we have is downwind of where we're seeding. Sometimes you can see the water in the cloud in the entire portion that we seeded freeze and then fall out. And in an otherwise overcast day, this hole will open up in the sky and you can see the blue sky and sun and snow falling downwind. And otherwise it's totally overcast. So using data from our own proprietary radar from the National Weather Service radar, even NASA satellites, we're able to show exactly how much of the precipitation is manmad and then tell our customers, be they governments, hydroelectric utilities, insurers, ski resorts. Now, actually, I can imagine ski resorts being early adopters. Yeah, yeah. Although isn't it very narrow? It's such a small target. When I think about, like, rainfall on a corn field, that seems like sort of spray and pray and you're good. But if you want that double black diamond to be hit perfectly, that feels like precision. Are we there yet on the technology? Well, really what the ski resorts want is the off pied to get snow. Right. Like, oh, dude, you got it. Yeah, yeah. Off piste. Off piste, Sorry. Off piste. Yeah, yeah, because. Because you're random. Yeah. Because your snow blowers, the conventional stuff, they can get the actual, like, trails. But if you want to do the backcountry, cloud seeding is best for that. Okay. And so historically, cloud seeding has been no more precise than a few hundred square miles at a time. You're flying these planes at hundreds of miles an hour. The entire watershed will get water. We've gotten it down to because of the wind. Sensing that we're doing the modeling that we're doing. We're like an AI company now, sorry to say it. We've gotten it precise enough to land on about 8,000 acres at a time. And doing all of our snow zone research, that's what we're calling the area that we're hitting. We can probably get it down from 8,000 to a little bit smaller, maybe 1,000 acres at a time, which is easy for any mid to ultra large resort in the U.S. yeah, makes sense. Where has demand been? You mentioned a few different geolocations. You mentioned a few different industries. Do you think that you will be narrowing down at some point? Like finding a beachhead, finding a product market fit. And it's like, yeah, he's narrowed down already. Earth. Yeah, I know, I know. There's a broad. There's a broad vision, but every company goes through a narrowing and a focusing point and then a broadening diversification. Do you see yourself going more narrow for a little bit and just being like the dominant main player in, you know, the Pacific Northwest in ski and then going other things, or do you want to keep running in multiple places? Is there a benefit to that? It's a super salient question. Right. Because if you look at, say, reflect Orbital, the guys that are offering sunlight on demand, infinite potential applications for that, rain or snow on demand, a bunch of different demos could use that. For us, it's two things exclusively. It is municipal and state water agencies. So say, like the Utah Department of Natural Resources, the California Department of Natural Resources. Water for them, that's straightforward. We're very legible to them. They understand the value of snowpack and how that relates to their water table. So that's one. And then just ski resorts. So all these other markets, although eventually we'll play in them. I think insurance is really interesting for, like, crop insurance. I think that. How does that work? So right now there's insurance against crop failure due to drought. Sure. So if you have like a parametric insurance play where you can structurally reduce the risk of drought killing your crops, then you can bring more water down. Exactly. Makes sense. Although that'll all be interesting. It's really going to be Alpine, Rocky Mountain, Sierra ski resorts, and then just the governments that I'm in for. Makes sense. What kind of advancements have you made on the hardware side, the actual drones, like, you guys are flying drones in probably more extreme conditions than, like, I would guess, any other company or organization on the planet. Is that accurate. There's some pretty cool defense companies that are building crazier drones than ours. But we have the only rotor wing vehicle that can fly in severe icing in all of NATO. Rotor wing vehicle. So quad copper rather than fixed wing. Sure, yeah. And so the advancements have been candidly, last year, our drones were basically like bottle rockets. They'd go up, the icing was really severe. We had not perfected the system required to sustain flight through severe icing. But now in atmosphere, bottle rockets, as in, they would go up, they would deliver a payload, and then they would just kind of fall. I was kind of making a joke about them exploding. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So all of the development that's been done in the last year is about reliability and precision. These vehicles, you don't want to lose a drone every time. No, it doesn't work. Exactly. And so we're flying three to four miles above ground level. That's being done pretty consistently up to 60, 70 mile an hour winds in these atmospheric rivers. That's the big development there. And then also another big thing is the aerosol sizing. So this was part of the big breakthrough that happened in January. We realized we needed significantly smaller so like nanometer scale and then significantly more concentration of these particles to deliver the effect that we were intending before that we were releasing like micron sized particles. But now because we're releasing more and smaller particles, we're able to more reliably see our effect. Wild. How has the response been to just the vanilla pushback of like dangerous chemical goes in the cloud? This, this like the actual silver. Is it still silver iodide? Is silver iodide something you can't just chug in a glass of water? Right. Did you see a dachshund video? Yes. I want you to unpack that. That did not look very good. Like what's going on there? Yeah. So shout out to Daxon from soon. Great filmmaker. Yep. Spect potential investigative journalist going on. What's going on here? So silver iodide is still what we're using. In this upcoming winter, we're going to have scaled operations with our alternative seeding agent. It's this naturally occurring protein from American soil. It's so on brand for you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We think that you know how like you're trying to. It's like a naturally occurring white monster. Yeah, exactly. So we're going to mix the protein into whey and then I'm going to. And it's going to play. But no, I mean putting salt in the atmosphere doesn't it seems like that could be. If it's a natural substance, if it is something that you could drink, that would be. That would kind of close the loop. But are you thinking about moving away from silver iodide entirely and moving over to this new seeding agent? So silver iodide, because it's safe, because it's proven, because this problem is already inordinately complex. We'll continue to use in most of our commercial ops for the next two years. The reception is generally like there's two things happening at once. There's more awareness of cloud seeding. Like in the last three years, there's 400 times more searches of cloud seeding than there were before. We're all wondering who's responsible for that. And then also on the public sentiment side, as long as you can disambiguate the sort of Bill Gates dimming the sun type stuff from cloud seeding, which is localized precipitation enhancement, people are pretty receptive. And silver iodide, if you back out the math for people, they're willing to talk 90% of the time, 10% less tractable, but we're always going to be open and transparent with them. Long term, though, my primary interest in alternative seeding agents, it's not just because I want to get away from the PR of using silver iodide, it's that these proteins are about a thousand times more effective at nucleating ice. And the Chinese have that one primary advantage over our weather mod program. So they're doing very advanced material science for different graphene particles that much, much more effectively manipulate the weather conditions. But that seems more problematic. Graphene from an environmental perspective, like, if it falls on my corn, I eat it. I don't necessarily want graphene in my digestive tract. Something like that. That makes sense. Yeah. But maybe in certain applications you don't care about the chemicals in the water. I don't know. Like, I mean, if you're skiing, you're not necessarily eating the snow. So there's potential for chemicals. Lots of people yellow. So maybe that's not the. Maybe that's not the best example. But there must be some sort of. There's probably some applications where, you know, you're not net polluting the environment. Potentially. Yeah. And I think there's also always the, like, dilution is the solution angle. You say, okay, if you put down 50% more water, then it's still an inconsequential amount of material in the soil. That's their angle right now. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Jordy, what's the team like today and where are you guys? Like where. All over the map are you? Yeah. So we were. I don't know what we were last we spoke with this time last year, we were about 30 people. We're a little bit over 130 now. Wow. Yeah. Huge. Yes. How is that divided up? So there's about a third 40 or so in Los Angeles at any given time. There's about 60 in Salt Lake. Shout out. Utah, shout out. Governor Cox. Shout out. LDS Church. Love them all. But then we have a smaller operational site in Pendleton, Oregon, an operation in the Middle east, which we still cannot talk about the location of. And then our DC team in shortly actually in Alaskan as well. Alaska, yeah. Are you still going to, like, local court hearings? Constantly. I feel like you were on a run there also. There was like a. There was like a potential of, like, is this going to get completely banned in certain states or at the federal level? Like, what's the status of, like, the government pushback? I know the government's doing a lot of different stuff, but yeah, at the state level, of the 31 bans that were proposed, only two went through in last session. Florida. Florida and then Louisiana. Unsurprisingly, the discourse in everywhere east of the Mississippi where they don't need the waters badly is more liable to chemtrail conspiracy discourse. West of the Mississippi, people need the water and are willing to hear you out and disambiguate. I think that in terms of federal involvement and potentially preemption, President Trump brought up the necessity of saving the Great Salt Lake. Right. We have operations for the Bear river, which is the primary tributary into the Great Salt Lake right now. And if we were to scale up our operations about 10 times, we could radically accelerate the timeline to reversing the eratification of and refilling the lake. And so we might get to see some participation at the federal level in cloud seeding because it's the only way to produce net new water for the lake. And that's an interesting project. Not because. Not just because the lake is piece of national American heritage, not just because it's something that all of the ski industry is dependent on in Utah, because that lake effect snow is what gives you the champagne powder. It's not just important because if the lake aridifies, you end up with toxic arsenic getting kicked up like in the Salton Sea. But also it's the training wheels for what a interstate weather modification project would look like for the Colorado River. Right. The Bear river, which flows through or the watershed which flows through Utah, Wyoming and Idaho. That is sort of the precedent setting that we're looking for for the Colorado, which is down to about 8.1 million acre feet through Lees Ferry every year. That's the place where they measure flow of the river so they figure out allocations. That's about half of where the water was measured to be or suspected to be when we made the Colorado River Compact. Rainmaker's goal to call a shot publicly is to get the Colorado river back to its 1920 supply levels by 2031. That will mean about 8 million more acre feet of water down. And a lot of that will come from cloud seeding. And some of it will come from other technologies that we're looking at right now. How do you structure your customer contracts? Like how does that work? Right. I'm assuming you have these different types, different types of groups that you're working with. But what does a typical contract look like? I'm assuming it's like annual contract. You're trying to deliver a certain amount of effect in that period. But walk us through it. So there's two modes depending on the customer. With B2B, it is value based pricing. We've recently hired on some guys from Palantir. They've been instrumental in us figuring out how to set up those structures. It is some program standup fee and availability and operations, maintenance, repair fee and then being paid based on the inches of snow that we produce. The gallons of water that flow into the system of interest. People value the water from cloud seeding very differently. And so we structure that outcomes based pricing differently depending on the customer segment and what they actually want. Then on the B2B side, I'd prefer to do that sort of outcomes based pricing. But you wouldn't be surprised to find out that governments have a harder time paying for outcomes than they do for infrastructure services. And so that has looked like firm fixed fee for the most part. Yeah. So all of our operations priced into the initial contract. Stand up. Give me an update on the Gundo. Dude, feels like a bunch of companies have grown a ton, potentially outgrowing the Gundo. Are there more? What's net inflow? Like you know what's going on? Well, I think the first. It's also just less noisy now. I feel like the meme like you kind of. Because they all locked in and then locked in, right? Yeah, yeah. There was a pretty deliberate discussion that happened in the group chat after your piece came out. We were like radio silence. Like we all shut up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think the most important thing is that it didn't blow up in like a fiery disaster, which it totally could have. Yeah. But if you look at us, if you look at Valor, if you look at Neros, a lot of these companies are like at scale and operating in size now. Valor and the older guards doing well too. Radiant and Impulse and Varda, that crew, they're like the. I feel like they're like the Anks. Yeah, they're the Unks. They're like the juniors. You guys are like the sophomores now. Yeah. And the seniors like the spacexes and the Lockheed. Mattel. Mattel. Harvey's there, of course. Classic Gundo company. Yeah. So I think that Our original like Gundo bro cohort having matured, that's something. That's pretty cool. But yeah, every single one of these companies now has operations manufacturing, namely outside of Gundo. R and D will stick in and around Gundo, Torrance, the Greater Gundo area. The Greater Gundo area, including Bel Air and Malibu. I consider these Greater Gundo. I think actually Greater Gundo extends all the way down to Costa Mesa to include. Yeah, there's a prolific defense company in Gundo. Greater Gundo. Throw San Diego in, why not? Yeah, Las Vegas. That's Greater Gundo. No, we don't claim Vegas actually, but right up until San Mateo, you get Nvidia, maybe not Facebook. You stop at the chips. Yeah. And the inflow has been pretty consistent, largely through Decipulus. Yeah, that's right. Jacob. Yeah, Jacob's been last week. Right? Yeah, yeah. That was really cool to see a rundown. How'd it go? Well, I'm, I'm personally investing in some of the companies from Deciduous. I think there's a few worth checking out. One just at the top of my mind is Western Chemical Jared West. He is the guy. I don't know if you saw the Jared west of Western Chemical. Water Processing, taking wastewater and then putting duckweed into it, harvesting and cleaning the water and then taking the hydrocarbons out of the duckweed thereafter. Yeah, so that's one of the first processes that he's scaling up production of. Okay. Yeah. What were the other trends? I mean it feels like one interesting trait of the Gundo companies was that they were maybe more like pointed to specific solutions. There was already, there were already like a big energy company generally or like big oil or like, you know, a big defense tech company. But then you'd get somebody like Neros and Soren who are like laser focused on this one application and still breaking through. And like it's not, it's not like you were framed as like just like, like dealing with water broadly. You weren't the water company, you were like cloud seeding specifically. And it was this sort of off the beat technology. And I feel like that's part of what made the Gundo experiment so interesting was that it felt like a science fair in some ways. And there were a lot of people that were like they weren't biting off more than they could chew, but they were taking on really ambitious projects that like if they scaled, they'd work. But is that culture alive and well? Like, and are there, are there like the Sipulous thing, are those companies like coming to the Gundo, are there new freshmen joining every year? Basically, yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I feel bad because the original cohort go bad for the hazing rituals. No, in 2023, I assure you, I'd have instituted something like that. But 2026, Augustus, not so grown man. Grown up. Yeah. Nobody even lives in the office anymore. Wow. I know. Fell off. There's no squat rack in the office. Brutal. It's brutal. Gone corporate. Yeah, it's over. He's big cloud seeding now. Big cloud. But what's interesting about this most recent cohort is it's largely like chemical manufacturing. Interesting. Yeah. So I think that if we pumped out more defense slop or energy slop, like that space is pretty. Well, it's hard. Yeah. Anduril has a bet in almost every category and a lot of funding and a lot of talent. And so there's a big question about should you try and compete with Anduril or just go work at Anduril. Right. You can certainly fulfill a mission if you want to work on some particular solution in defense by just going over to Anduril. It's not some abstract company. Do you have any younger competitors, as in, like startups? Or is your competition somebody deciding? Just a newer otter cloud seeding company with a longer mullet. Because I know you guys acquired a company at one point, right, that was doing something in the space broadly, but has anybody been crazy enough to try to fast follow you? So we did acquire one of the legacy cloud seeding companies that was using Plains ground generators, and we're going to continue rolling those up just because it's very simple to inject our tech, produce significantly more water, prove our yields, and then upsell accordingly. No, I don't know of anybody that's started a company that's competing with Rainmaker, and I think that they'd probably get bodied instantaneously if they were to do so. It'd be a nightmare. No, I'm sure there will come a point where people will be like, wow, he figured it out. Basically, once you hit a certain scale, then they'll be like, oh, that seems like a good idea, but it'll be too late. You'll already be getting dragged in front of Congress for monopolizing cloud seeding. Yeah. I think that I'm supposed to be magnanimous publicly about that sort of thing, but I do. You have to be magnanimous publicly about energy drinks? About energy. The first time we recorded anything together, we did a tier list. I want you just a quick tier list of rank. All of These, please. Can you rank every? Can you rank every. You got the Alani Nu up there. This is the biggest tier list. Are you an Aulani Nu guy? These are unranked. This is the beginning of a tier list where you have to sort these from absolute heaven. S. Tier A, wonderful and amazing. B, pretty damn good. C, it's fine. D, gets the job done. F. Why are you drinking this, then? Instant kidney failure is the lowest possible tier. And then, of course, you can put things in. Never tried. There are a lot in here. I didn't even realize some these existed. Full throttle. That's pretty full throttles in there. We got a lot. Anything standing out? Anything make it in the Augustus rotation or the. Or the Rainmaker fridge more frequently than previous? I think the. I think the biggest ones is not actually listed here. Oh, deep cut. There's like a. I think it's called, like, Red Tiger. It's this Red Tiger Jordanian. It's this Jordanian energy drink. Instant. They don't list the ingredients. And so I would actually disagree with the premise and say instant kidney failure, if it gives you the optimal nootropic effect, is probably what we're optimizing for. We never got you to rank Diet Coke. Are you pro Diet Coke or are you a hater? Stand on Diet Coke? I think, unfortunately, Diet Coke is SF coded. Oh. However, I'll offer my olive branch to SF and say we did the meme. We dogged on you guys for making nonsense for long enough. We can be friends. Yeah. Now they're. They're shipping, I don't know, semiconductors and hardware. There's a lot of companies up there. Ulysses. I don't know if you're buddies with Will. Yeah, right. Yeah. And he's building real stuff up there. Will. David Poseidon. Yeah. There's a ton of. Also just like. I feel like both Ulysses and Poseidon. Yeah. That's hilarious. There's also the. There's also just a boom of, like, consumer hardware, industrial robotics. Pretty cool. There's a lot of stuff. And I feel like even. Even if it's like a consumer robot that does your laundry or something, like, that's a little bit more. I don't know, just like a more optimistic future than just more ad tech. And I think it sort of checks the box. It's close to checking the box of the Gundo criticism, which was fair. What is the tvpn, like, public policy on. On prediction markets, by the way? Public policy? Well, we don't. We don't engage in them. We don't trade on them. They're sometimes useful to pull up like, like the Elon Sam Altman lawsuits going on right now. I think it's sitting at exactly 50%. So bad example because that tells you nothing. But, but, but in terms of like the midterms flipping, I find that really useful. But, but I generally, I generally hear your criticism about, like, we don't need more sports betting. So we've had Sagar and Jetty from Breaking Points on. I think you agree with him and. Yeah, I think we're like, in loose agreement with that. Okay. That the sports betting is like zero sum, negative sum. Did you hear about the. What was it the SF guy that, Not San Francisco, but Special Forces guy that bet on the Maduro extraction. Yes. That feels. Yeah, he's betting on himself, but obviously a violation of the job, I imagine. So not good. I mean, it's crazy because it puts you and your team in insane harm's way because you have to like Maduro and his government have access to the data source. I hadn't even thought about that. That's crazy. And so you're bas basically telling the enemy indirectly, like when you are going to. Yeah, because they can see a spike in the chart. Yeah, It's a signal. And so, yeah, the more I sat with that, I was like, Trump. Trump's reaction when somebody mentioned it to him was he was like, comparing it to like betting on yourself in baseball. That's the joke. That's not the real thing. Yeah, but this was like a, you know, putting. I think that guy should probably go to prison for like. Yeah, 20 years. Rough, but not based in SF. I think both companies are in New York. True, true. Yeah. Stick it with the finance price. We haven't yet made money off of snow prediction markets. Well, you have. You saw it about the hairdryer, Right. So there was a Paris weather market and this guy gets caught on video pulling a hairdryer up to the, to the, to the, to the meter. And I mean, the other thing that's, that was sort of irksome was we got to a point where there were prediction markets around what people would say during their TBPN appearance. So that creates this weird thing with the chat where the chat will chime in and be like, ask him about, ask them about Bitcoin. And sometimes that's like a reasonable thing. Like maybe we do want to know, is there a crypto integration to this thing? Or they might want to ask you about. Oh, ask him about, like, Abu Dhabi specifically. Or ask him about Spain. Specifically, is there anybody's bag we can wear right now? Yeah, exactly. And so it creates this weird dynamic where it sort of like degrades the quality of the questions that are getting asked in the chat, which is annoying because the chat is very useful for us to bring an extra character in. And then we had a very weird interaction where at one point we had prediction market scrolling across the bottom and a guest, actually Sam Allman was looking at them because he could see them. And one of them was like, Sam Allman declares AGI and he's like running this weird thing. Like this is weird, like people are gambling on what if I say this word right now, this triggers this thing and it's just like distracting. Yeah. And so there's been like a back and forth there, but still some cool intelligence and some cool like meta analysis for like understanding what is going on and just synthesizing a bunch of like polling data. That's still pretty interesting to me. Yeah, but yeah, no, I, I think they should be illegal. Even though even the, even the political ones, like who's going to win the next presidential election, so. Well, yes, but like I heard one person say you could self fund a campaign. You ever read this article where it was like, yeah, bet on yourself. Yeah, exactly. All that to say though, like Gundo still, all the changes it's gone through corporatization, not like sleeping in the office anymore. Like, everybody does hate the get rich, quick cash out slop stuff and if only for the sake of some moral fortitude and like the mitigation of the degrading mental quality of everybody across the country and also like the middle and lower classes just being utterly bodied by people that are doing de facto insider trading on these things. Like, yeah, they should probably be illegal. Yeah, that was Sager's point about just gambling broadly, that like the inaccessibility of like Las Vegas is like a feature, not a bug and should not be worked out and you should need to like explain to your friends and family like why you're going to Las Vegas. And then like, maybe you're only there for a weekend, you come back and you're like, not just like stepping away from the gambling, but also probably hungover and being like, I don't need to do that for a couple years as opposed to like push notification. It's available now. Yeah, yeah, very tricky. But stay safe out there. I don't know any any more shots you want to call for this year, for this upcoming year? I think asi. Yes or no? ASI are You. Are you AGI pelled? I would have said two months ago. No, absolutely not. But some of our smartest philosophy graduate, like super, super AI native young kids rebuilt some of the most sophisticated weather models in the world with LLMs here. So, yeah, I would say actually you have to AGI harden your company. And so we're doing all of this. That feels like AGI pilled, not AI God pilled. Yeah. Yes, yes. But also, you useful tool. Pilled. Yeah. Not. Not slop. Oh, it's a bubble. It's nothing. It's not even useful. Like it is useful. No, super, super useful. I think the weird take though is like most of the economy is faked already, so everybody's jobs getting automated is like ostensibly. No, you've seen those Instagram rails, right? It's like AI is going to take my job. What job? And it's like a guy like, you know, skateboarding or something. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, I think it'll probably like revolutionize a bunch of stuff now. I think on the water thing, I brought this up before. The water critique of data centers. Yes, sure. We'll talk my own book all the time. But like, they don't actually use that much water. I think all of Google used 50 golf courses worth or something like that. Yeah, 50 golf courses just around Southern California controls like 20% of compute or something like that. Maybe more. It's like absolutely insane. It's not a water issue. It is a power issue. Are you bullish on desalination? Yeah, yeah. I think Desal is going to be pretty instrumental. I mean, is there a bit of you where you're looking at what Isaiah is doing and you're like, megaproject Desal. Like, this feels like you could crush that. And it's. I don't know, like it's. It's a different. It's a different shape of company. Like, what you're doing right now is maybe more innovative than just being like, there's a desalination plant that works here. I'm going to build another one. Copy paste. But what's really involved in that is like what Isaiah is doing, which is like marshaling the capital, marshaling the political will, getting stakeholders aligned. Like it's this very soft, messy thing. All things that you're quite good at. You're good at this. And I feel like. I feel like if you know. Yeah. Is there a consolidation point right down from your office? Yeah, well, it's off. Right. The Desal plant. Well, are you thinking Carlsbad down in San Diego? I thought there was one like in El Segundo. Is that not right? There's the water treatment plant, Hyperion. Yeah. They do a ton of recycling. No, I think a shot that I will call is by Q1 of next year, Rainmaker is going to be doing some decel. Let's go. And yeah, a lot of that is like marshaling political will and stakeholder engagement. Yeah. It's also, you got to take the perspective of modular manufacturing of units. Right. Like, that's what Valor's big thing is. Nuclear. We talked to somebody who was doing a D cell at the scale of like a cooler. So, you know, you're going camping, you can fill it up with just swamp water and you can get clean water battery powered. It's a smaller unit, you know, but you can kind of scale up. Yeah, sorry, I'm. I'm laughing at myself. I. I realize I haven't told any of my investors yet, so. Don't worry. It's not like it's live. Yeah, but we'll review this before we post it. No, no, no. But yes. Stay tuned for decile. I think the decal really, the roadmap is really good at snow time precipitation enhancement. Then come next year, we're going to be doing operational summertime, like warm cloud precipitation enhancement alongside hail suppression. That's the same period when an arm of the company will start doing this decel work. And then thereafter, the third thing that you have to do is automated tractor tilling of biochar or hydrogels into soil because we make a ton of water right now via cloud seeding. But if you do that in, say, Moab in southern Utah, your effective precipitation is about 10%. Most of it evaporates away before it actually percolates into aquifers or runs off into streams. If you start to till the soil with these absorptive materials that increase the amount of organic matter there, you can change the trophic potential of the soil such that it's not just sand anymore, but grasses can start to live there, biota can start to survive in the soil, and then you retain more water year over year because of that. That's more of like a 20, 28 arm that we're going to stand up. But snowpack now, rain and hail next year, desal towards the end of that, and then automated tractor tilling thereafter. Very cool. Yeah. Thanks for coming on the show. Fantastic to get the update. Thanks. Great hanging out. We'll see you soon. We have our next guest, Rick Caruso, joining in about 30 minutes. What you got? Look at these. American Conservation Coalition. There we go.

NEWSMAX