NEWSMAX

Makes sense Is software dead? It's different it's definitely not dead but what software like how you create it how you're going to use it how much you're going to have written for you each time you need it versus how much you'll want sort of a consistent UX that's all going to change you know there have been a number of these like big sell offs of SaaS stocks over the last few years as these models have rolled out there I expect there will continue to be more I expect there will be big booms in software I think it's just going to be volatile for a while as people figure out what this looks like the statement that someone said to me that is stuck in my mind most these last couple of weeks is that every company is an API company now whether they want to be or not. Oh yeah because agents are just going to be able to write a c yeah we had we had Dara we had Dara from Uber on.

Effort, but having industry support research in startup style, I think it's wonderful. Over the next two years, would you expect to acquire more individual product companies or more research labs? Good question. I don't have a strong opinion there, I would bet. Well, I'd say the very best ones will often look like a mixture of both. Like the one that I have in mind right now is something that very much looks like a mixture of both. So maybe the shape of things to come is the really, truly extraordinary product work. We'll have more and more research component and it'll be kind of a more of a hybrid thing. Is data the new oil is.

Night skins exclusive games though, maybe higher price. Amounts. Talk to me about a million dollar HQ show. Like, what does that feel like for you? What's an example? Walk me through sort of like how those big shows, those big monetization moments came together. How. They came. I mean, how they came together was we were able to get a million people playing the game live. If you get a million live devices. And it turns out, guys, if Dylan only knew this when we were making those deals, we probably could have doubled money. Because. Because later on we hired Nielsen, the ratings company to come in and do a study and they put like a 1.7% multiple on our viewers. So frankly. Because people. Are looking over your shoulders. Exactly. If there's one person holding a phone, maybe there's an office, all playing together. So honestly, two and a half million connected devices was our peak with the Rock when he hosted. That was a Warner Brothers sponsored event. Sponsored for Warner Brothers for a. Movie to promote. Rampage was the movie at the time. Yeah. Instant classic, Modern classic. Rampage, of course. Of course. Still. Still getting paid. Still talk about that movie. But 2.5 million connected devices. Really? Yeah. Close to like 5 million. Viewers. And then, and then what's your interaction with the Warner Brothers team on that? Like, are you. Yeah, yeah. During the show, Are you. Is it just overlays graphics? Are you stopping doing ad reads? Like, what do they want to really make that pop for a million bucks? It was, I mean, we showed. The trailer, we put the trailer in the, in the lobby and we, and we, I definitely talked about, you know, probably wrote a whole script around. I did a Ready Player One deal where I. Maybe some questions that are linked, some questions linked to it. A. Lot of, you know, you know, graphical integration, the UX ui. But I think it wore like the Ready Player One goggles. So that kind of stuff. And live product reads are going to be part of Savvy as well. I mean, totally. We're again, we're taking the live podcast ecosystem of ads, as you guys well know. You guys are like NASCAR drivers over here. Yeah. Do you think that.

You, your digital rewards, your customizations, Fortnite skins, exclusive games, though higher price amounts. Talk to me about a million dollar HQ show. Like, what does that feel like for you? What's an example? Walk me through sort of like how those big shows, those big monetization moments came together. I mean, how they came together was we were able to get a million people playing the game live. If you get a million live devices. And it turns out, guys, if Dylan only knew this when we were making those deals, we probably could have doubled money because later on we hired Nielsen, the ratings company, to come in and do a study and they put like a 1.7% multiple on our viewers. So frankly, people. Are looking over your shoulders. Exactly. If there's one person holding a phone, maybe there's an office, all playing together. So honestly, two and a half million connected devices was our peak with the Rock when he hosted. That was a Warner Brothers sponsored event. So it. Was sponsored for Warner Brothers for a. Movie to. To promote. Rampage was the movie at the time. Yeah, Instant classic, Modern classic. Rampage, of course. Of course. Still getting paid, still talk about that movie. But 2.5 million connected devices. Really? Yeah. Close to like 5 million. Viewers. And then what's your interaction with the Warner Brothers team on that? Like, are you stop. Yeah, yeah. During the show. Is it just overlays graphics? Are you stop and doing ad reads? Like, what do they want to really make that pop for a million bucks? It was. I mean, we. Showed the trailer, we put the trailer in the, in the lobby and I definitely talked about it. Probably wrote a whole script around. I think we did a Ready Player One deal where I. Maybe some questions that are linked, some questions linked to it. A. Lot of graphical integration, the UX. Ui, but I think it wore like the Ready Player One goggles on air even. So. That kind of stuff and live product reads are going to be part of Savvy as well. I mean, totally. Again, we're taking the live podcast ecosystem of ads, as you guys well know. You guys are like NASCAR drivers over here. Do you think. That energy or computer.

Thank you so much. I. Wanted to. Before you, before you jump off, I wanted to ask kind of what, as cfo, how you think about super bowl ads? I'm sure this isn't your first rodeo. What kind of goes into it? You know, there's so much. There's so many different ways to approach the super bowl ad. But what's kind of your logic going into it or kind of framework? Yeah. So super bowl ads are really about building awareness behind your brand. And so this is not our first rodeo. I think our first time was four years ago. We came with an ad with Jennifer Coolidge. It was a lot of fun. This year we have Melissa McCarthy as the actress in our super bowl ad, and it's fantastic. So I really think it's about building brand awareness. If I think back five, six years, our overall awareness was around 13% as a brand, and now we're over 40%. And I credit that to a lot of the collaborations and the things like super bowl that we've done over the years. So. It'S a. Measurement. Yeah. So your CMO and your marketing team are not coming to you and you're saying, like, cool, I'll give you the budget, but. I want to see a move in top line the next week. It's more about. I always say. That. I always want to see. Show me the money now. Yeah, okay. But in fact, it is sowing the seeds for a longer term investment. There are other things that we look at that are more direct revenue drivers, but super bowl investments like that are for the long term. Last question for me. What's your kind of M and A outlook for the next couple of years? I'm sure in a perfect world there'd be a new road every single year that you could roll in, but obviously that's not the way. Great brands don't get.

Well, congratulations on the progress. Thank you so much. I wanted. To. Before you, before you jump off, I wanted to ask kind of what, as cfo, how you think about super bowl ads? I'm sure this isn't your first rodeo. What kind of goes into it? You know, there's so much. There's so many different ways to approach the super bowl ad. But what's kind of your logic going into it or kind of framework? Yeah. So super bowl ads are really about building awareness behind your brand. And so this is not our first rodeo. I think our first time was four years ago. We came with an ad with Jennifer Coolidge. It was a lot of fun. This year we have Melissa McCarthy as the actress in our super bowl ad. It's fantastic. So I really think it's about building brand awareness. If I think back five, six years, our overall awareness was around 13% as a brand, and now we're over 40%. And I credit that to a lot of the collaborations and the things like super bowl that we've done over the years. So. Measurement. Yeah. So your CMO and your marketing team are not coming to you and you're saying like, cool, I'll give you the budget, but. I want to see a move in top line the next week. It's more about. I always say. That. I always want to see. Show me the money now. Yeah, okay. But in fact, it is sowing the seeds for a longer term investment. There are other things that we look at that are more direct revenue drivers, but super bowl investments like that are for the long term. What is last question for.

All around where we could go to food. Do you think it's actually good. For. Do you think. Do you think LLMs are good for workout planning? That's funny. It's just taking the app like, I typically want a workout plan that is. I mean, I don't. We don't. We work out every day and we kind of do a vibes based approach. I would say try to push it hard and not. We're usually talking about technology and business during our workouts. Yes. But I, you know, historically, let's say when I was starting to work out, I would find a plan, but I wanted it to be from a specific person that was making that plan with general. With an intention around it for somebody in that state, which was maybe like, I've been weight training for six months at the time. Yeah, yeah. There's a huge. And so if you just take. Like. And the reason I ask is like, I've had terrible luck doing recipes, getting recipes from LLMs because I think it just takes the average of every recipe for a certain item on the Internet and just kind of gives it to you and you can end up with like. I think we tried to make waffles once and the waffle was like, clearly the recipe was just wrong because they were like really runny. It just wasn't working. It was like it had botched the different. Well, you. Haven'T used the latest models. You throw Codex 5.3 at that. Yeah, but it's. No, but it's obviously not an wafflebench needs to be. It's not an IQ thing. It's just, it's just. We'Re creating waffle Bench. We're moving the goalposts. It needs to be able to make waffles. Great waffles. Anyway, let me tell you about cognition.

Phenomenon in 2017, you guys played. Oh, yeah, Agent Beauty is here. Of course. We're Agent Beauty. All right, all right. I. Never won. I don't think I ever. Did I, man. Oh, yeah, well. You were playing. Yeah. Insider trading. It was tough though. Honestly. Part of like the journey to Savvy is, you know, taking a lot of learnings and insights from hq, which tremendous success at first, viral international hit. Yeah. But when you think about it, it's. And in hindsight you go, oh, maybe it was a flawed product because it was this really impossible game to win. Right. Very few people actually won it and a lot of very smart people, including Stephen Colbert. When I did his show, he told me behind the curtain, he didn't do this on camera. He goes, I played your game a couple times, didn't win, stopped playing. And it's like, oh, interesting, because if you're a smart person, you're just losing over and over and over. It's not. Good feeling. So from that perspective, it was maybe not the best because, yeah, if you play Fortnite or Call of Duty and you're not doing well, they will pair you with other people that are at your skill ceiling. Like the skill based matchmaking happens in most. You go to chess.com, you'll be matched with someone at your level. So you can get a couple wins under your belt. With hq, it just gets more and more competitive. More and more competitive. Exactly. And then the company obviously has to raise the bar or else everyone wins. Yes. Iterating on the products, adding features, adding new formats, they just never quite got there. So with Savvy, one of the takeaways is we want to make this game something that everybody can play all the way through. Because with HQ, if you got out on question two out of 12, you were done. That's it. Yeah, that's right. So now you can play all five rounds of Savvy, which are word puzzles. We thought about trivia, but I think AI has put a kibosh on trivia for cash. Because it's just too easy with these bots, man. But with tech.

There is other news. As always, the number of horses per county. I didn't see this chart and Chadson says these are rookie numbers. Should be double, even triple this. Horses everywhere. Wall to wall horses. Should be way more horses. I totally agree. I found out as you know, in escrow on a new property, and I was talking to somebody very enthusia about horses, and I was getting the breakdown on what kind of horses I'll be able to support on the properties, and they were giving me the lay of the land. So I hope to contribute to. It's going to be on everyone to get these numbers up right. It's not enough for one of us. I mean, Dara. Khoshashari, CEO of Uber, yesterday came on and said that 75% of all land in cities is parking lots or something. That's not the real number, but there's a lot of parking lots. What's going to happen to them when we don't need them? Because of autonomous cars, Stables. Yep. You take your Waymo or your autonomous Uber into the city, you hop on a steed and you go from place to place. Excellent execution, Jerry. Excellent execution. I love horses. I. Do love horses. I also love gusto, because horses have gusto. The unified platform for payroll.

Building a 2.1 gigawatt solar facility there. That's going to make the cells that go into our plant in Dallas. So what are the main bottlenecks? Is it purely capital? Because ideally T1 could just copy and paste the Dallas facility, you know, a thousand times. But what does it take to actually do that? The solar chain is really cool because it has like, it's almost like four different parts. It's got the digging out silica and making polysilica in the rocks. Then you're going into ingots and wafers. And those wafers are also very similar in the semiconductor industry. Then it kind of splits. The high grade stuff goes to semiconductors, the low grade stuff goes to solar. Then you take a solar cell plant. The solar cell plant is basically a low grade semiconductor plant. You're making, you know, making the cells, making a fab. And then those cells go to the low tech part, which is in Dallas. Dallas is where I always, I always joke about it like it's a 5 gigawatt cell site with 50 trucks a day bringing in glass. Put in the cells in between and glue them together and then you get 50 trucks a day going out with glass. So it's like Dan's Glass company. We're just moving. But the cell part's really interesting. And that's where a lot of the advances come. From specialty gases to process equipment engineers to process equipment that's very specialized. That's the higher tech part. So for me it's very interesting as we go backwards and integrate. To answer your question on how do we get more of it starts with contracts. You know, we, we, we, we're smaller company. We're not the scale of like what Elon's doing in terms of his announcement with solar. Right. I don't have unlimited capital and funds, nor do I want a lot of dilution. On the, on the, as a public company, we need contracts. Those contracts then allow us to get the risk capital that we need to build these plants. But the building part is not the hard part. I'd say the building part in America is more about navigating through certain regulations, navigating through certain delays there to Texas I think is very conducive. But as long as I have power, as long as I have access to water and we go full recycling on the water. But as we go into water and power and low cost inputs, we feel we're in a great place in Texas to build. Who are the main buyers? Is it traditional energy companies? Who are you spending the most time with or will you actually sell to an Amazon Web Services or Google, who's building out a new data center. So we focus on utility scale, and that's capturing largest utilities. But it's also.

But it's of significant scale. It's one of the most modern in the world. Yeah. How does that 50 gigawatts of capacity in the United States compare to China? Can you lay the sort of geopolitical backdrop and get me up to speed on how much the American government is doing to support this effort? So look, China is up to over 1,000 gigawatts, 1.2 terawatts of current capacity. China's adding from last year probably close to 350 to 400 gigawatts. That's close to the American grid. So it's almost like China can add an entire grid just in solar. So the numbers are wild. Yeah. I don't think. I don't believe China's doing it to do, you know, lower carbon. I think China's doing it because they need to grow very, very, very fast. And I think that's what you're seeing last two, two or three years in the United States where solar and storage is also taking 75, 80% plus. You asked about, like, what the U.S. aspects for it. I think the U.S. both Democrats and Republicans, have done a lot of disincentives and a lot of incentives for advanced manufacturing. Whether it was the IRA in the past or the oaa now those incentives are in place, there's a lot of tariffs in place. I think a lot of those create an ability for the US to be a level playing field with other competitors. Quite simply, I think America lost a lot of its manufacturing muscle. We're building a new facility outside. It's about an hour north of Austin in Rockdale. It used to be an old Alcoa plant. Now it's just a piece of dirt. We're building a 2.1 gigawatt solar facility there. That's going to make the cells that go into our plant in Dallas. So. What are the main bottlenecks? Is it purely capital? Because ideally T1 could just copy and paste the Dallas facility a thousand times.

But this feels pretty close to the pedal to the metal to me. Says Doug. Joe Weisenthal says the average person on Earth is watching 25 YouTube shorts every single day. YouTube shorts average 200 billion daily views. That's a lot. That is just insane. That's a lot. I mean, you can watch a YouTube short in like what, five seconds on average, right? Because you skip one, you watch one for five seconds, one for 15 seconds. So I mean, 25 YouTube shorts, that feels like maybe five or 10 minutes of browsing, but still like pretty, pretty staggering. Yeah. I haven't migrated any. Like, I don't scroll on YouTube shorts yet. I. Find if I search for something like let's say I'm looking up a car. It'S. Nice to get a 60 second explanation of it. If I don't have time to like watch a review. Yeah. But I'm not like sitting there scrolling. Yeah, it still serves me. Clearly a lot of people are. But I rarely scroll through. Whereas on Instagram I will scroll the feed of reels. Yeah. Staying in the.

We couldn't get to the bottom of walls. Yeah, Bloomberg, Yeah, Bloomberg had a story that it's about the facts. Yeah. Effectively Google's scaling square footage in India pretty dramatically. Yes. And the question was, you know, why are they scaling it up at all? They're investing so much in capex and servers and digital workers, but of course they need humans as well. So American tech behemoths are racing to establish leadership in artificial intelligence, not just in the US but also around the world. India is welcoming them with open arms. Says the the Wall Street Journal. India is becoming one of the hottest markets globally for AI. For US AI titans looking to cater to the country's massive and digitally savvy population. Looking to attract more tech investments, the Indian government announced plans over the weekend to give tech firms a 20 year tax break on overseas revenue gleaned from global data services based in India. So you go and you set up a data center or you set up a business, a tech business. You're making money off of that whole, you know, data center or whatever you're selling in terms of software and you don't have to pay taxes to India for 20 years. That's a long, long time. Techno chief called us out yesterday. Yeah. The move is part of the Indians of the Indian government's push to make the country a major provider of AI services, including low cost tools to solve local problems while leaving cutting edge innovation to deep pocketed firms in the US and China. This will give India the opportunity to become a major AI hubs at India' technology minister. In the past few months, US tech companies have unveiled tens of billions of dollars in investment in Indian data centers as they race to build AI infrastructure around the world. In October, Google announced a 15 billion dollar investment in data centers in southeastern India as well as undersea cable links and what the company described as its largest single AI hub outside the United States. In December, Microsoft unveiled its largest ever investment in Asia with a $17.5 billion pledge to develop the country's cloud and AI infrastructure. Amazon also pledged 35 billion across its operations in India up until 2030. The US is big. The big US data center firms, known as hyperscalers, are drawn to a country whose 1.4 billion consumers are some of the most prolific users of data and AI chatbots. Very interesting. Anyway, there's more news from Nvidia in the information.

Maybe Texas has a lot of solar panels. Hard. To know yeah Jordy. How are you guys thinking about free usage limits ahead of the Super Bowl? It's really tough. I mean like one of the struggles of this is that compute is so constrained yeah I. Notice you guys didn't say download the Claude app There was no direct call to action. Yeah I mean I think the purpose of the ad was very much one for provoking thought and discussion it was certainly successful already yeah it did provoke a lot of thought and discussion and I think I mean I don't think you need to do an explicit call to action for people to download things or to consider things. Yeah that makes sense but again it sounds like the GPUs will be on fire Sunday is the expectation. The GPUs will be on fire as has been the case for the entire industry for last year I think we've all had to make incredibly difficult trade offs on exactly how computer is used. Yeah can you.

Work is world models, but unclear, but I don't think it's on the critical path to AGI. Basically. Can you unpack the concept of a software only singularity? Yes. So in this world, it's one where the models are far better at digital tasks than they are at physical ones. And so we see rapid change in the digital world with rapid, relatively little change in the physical world. So information and software changes dramatically. And this ends up having some pretty weird effects. It means that maybe like the drivers of what have been the last couple decades of progress in the economy turn around, like sort of get constant, get changed very rapidly. And I think we'll see that flow on into the physical world, but at a delay. So you get much better at doing chip design, you get much better at training AI models. AI models get a lot faster, chips get a lot better. The general economy gets a lot more efficient because the sort of information and message parsing that is much of the rest of the economy ends up becoming much more efficient. But at the same time, you don't yet have robots providing limitless physical abundance. Science probably progresses really fast up to the degree that you need interaction with labs or larger particle colliders or something like this. And then you go, okay, well, I need to build the robots to. But at the same time, automated labs feel more near term than unlimited robots in the real world manipulating the earth. Yeah, yeah, I think maybe they actually arrive at similar ish times. I think you need pretty competent robots for the labs, or at least like no one's yet managed to figure out how to automate a lab without. Turns out there were all these really weird little tasks that require a lot of manual human dexterity that are currently part of biological protocols. And so a lot of biologists will say no. Like you just actually need something that's capable of human level dexterity. Maybe not for all experiments, but for enough that it becomes annoying. And in this software, only singularity. Like, how are you defining singularity? You know, the Kurzweil formulation of like, more computing power than human brains. That's like one equation. There's also just like this point beyond which we cannot see. How do you think about singularity in that context? I think there is a pretty tricky event horizon that I at least haven't found anyone that's made incredibly strong or good predictions. It just feels like at that point you have as many digital intelligences or more and they're as smart or more smart than human intelligences. What does that even mean for the world? It's incredibly hard to predict. It's something we spend a lot of time trying to think about and trying to prepare the world for all of the eventualities. But it's, I think, difficult to make top line predictions of what exactly that looks like. Yeah. In the original Kurzweil formulation, that was almost the definition of the singularity was that you can't make predictions beyond it. And so once the predictions break down, then you're there. Yeah, I mean, I think in the near term.

Computation is done on the. On the device. But that could change in theory. I don't know what you think about that. I mean, I think our general perspective is that a given level of intelligence, you know, I mean, we've seen this trend, right? Yeah. Intelligence gets 10 to 50x cheaper for given level intelligence every year. Sure. Massively democratizes access to that level of intelligence. It's literally in my Twitter bio is like intelligence too cheap to meet up? Because this is in large part one of the things I worked on at Google and I've also worked on. Yeah. And one of the ways that happens is that that level of intelligence goes on device. But then there's always. Because scaling keeps continuing, there is this exponentially greater set of use cases which the models then get applied to. So it's totally plausible to me that some sub swarm might exist on your computer or you might get a laptop that has better memory bandwidth and so you can have little models, complete stuff. But at the same time then you also want the much greater intelligence going out there and sort of like planning and farming things out to swarms and really munching on the intensive and intellectually difficult work. Yeah. Jordy. Anything else? Have the market.

Information as you need it so that you can constantly act on whatever the most important thing is and that you context switch appropriately. Speaking of gaming, do you have an update for us? When is the game shipping? Tell us about the game. What inspired this? Give us the backstory and then tell us what's going on. Well, I think like many other people, I really wanted to test the limits of the models over the holidays. Right. I mean we saw all of that from people saying I spent three to four days doing X. And I think that's really where almost the hype cycle for the most recent generation of models start. Started in some respect when people get a chance to properly test their limits. Tells you a lot about adoption and how tells you a lot about adoption and how diffusion takes time because you need to have the space. We need more long weekends. Seriously. That's the bottleneck. Long weekends are the bottleneck. Gdp. Yeah, good for gdp, I guess. Holidays take a month off. Play with coding models. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. Anyway, anyway, so Dylan's been getting us all into Age of Empires with these five aside matches on the downstairs table. And I wanted to see if I could make an age of scaling where you build solar panels and data centers and you train AI models and drones and so forth. Instead of farms and mining and all this, you start in the industrial era. You go all the way up to Kardashev. I only got like 70, 80% done and all the mechanics work. But it turns out it's actually really hard to make a game that's fun. Like actually just clicking make solar panel 100 times is not fun. Surprise, surprise. It's fun for some people. There are some of those crazy clicker games where you do that and it's just like a brain rot game and they're pretty successful. But I think you should stay away from that. Not even factorio. These are mobile games that are really bad. I don't think that aligns with your mission. There's an art to it. Yeah, but we talk about the grand geopolitics and strategy of this era that we're going into. Right. Where the most valuable resources on earth are. Well, basically the economy is in some respects reoriented around compute and so I wanted to capture some of that dynamic. The late night discussions of San Francisco in a game. Yeah, I love it. How are you processing the work that's being done in world modeling and generating.

Who are maybe lightly technical, but don't have time to set up an IDE and configure an environment to actually start writing software. I want to know about plans to integrate to the phone. That was a big moment, I think for a lot of people with the claudebot Moltbot Open Claw thing was like, oh, I can text something and it will go and write code and that's valuable. And that unlocks a new agentic experience. Where do you see the Codex Desktop ecosystem going? I am so Codex Desktop has been somewhat of a surprise to me in terms of how much people love it, including how much I love it myself. I think it's a great example of 10% of Polish of the experience of using these models, especially when there's so much capability. Overhang goes an extremely long way to what you can build and how you interact with this stuff. Of course, we should have an ability to kick off new tasks from mobile and we'll do that. I mean, really what you want is like your single AI that's working for you on a unified backend, access to all of your data and your ideas and your stuff and your memory and all the context and the ability to work across a lot of surfaces. And often you'll be at your desktop, often you'll be on your phone and you just want to add something in. But it is a pretty profound shift in my own workflow, not just for coding tasks, but more general purpose tasks. It's still kind of hard to use if you're not at least reasonably technical, but obviously we'll find a version of this product that can do other knowledge work tasks and control your computer and things like that where you don't have to be. And it'll bring the magic of building stuff really to a lot of people because even if you never look at code, you'll be able to build something reasonably sophisticated. One of the things that I have built when I was playing around with the new Codex app is this thing I had always wanted, just like this magic auto completing to do list. I really work with to do lists and this idea that I could just put tasks in and it would try to go do them. If it could complete them, it could complete them. If it needed questions, it would ask me questions. If it needed, you know, if I had to do something, I could still do it the old fashioned way. But an interface like that, where you know, all the stuff you want to do, you just sort of explain to a computer or your AI and it tries to go off and do them and sure, if you're on your phone, you're going to just add a task on your phone, or if you want to easily import something from email, you're going to do that feels really good. So I'm excited about all of the ways that this will just become a general knowledge work agent. Yeah. Were you unsurprised to see a product like OpenClaw come from Open source because it's.

The whole supply chain and the talented people we need to make that happen would be a very good thing to do. Do you think there's an upper bound on model iq? The race right now is you're smart, but you're not smart for days, you're smart for hours. Can you go much farther and get much smarter? It seems certain. Upper bound. I don't know. I don't know how to think about that question yet. Yeah, I can't even reason about what 2000 IQ looks like. Like, you know, like, I don't even. I don't know what that means. It's funny you say. I mean, I can't reason about what it means to think about a problem for like 10,000 human years. That's another good. One. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. But. Maybe IQ is going to feel even weirder. I don't know. I feel like. I somehow feel like this isn't going to feel as strange as it sounds and the like, for a bunch of reasons. We're so focused on other people. We're so focused on our own lives. We're so focused. We have such a human centric nature that like, okay, this thing is really smart. It's inventing new science for us. It's running companies for us. It's doing all this stuff. And that sounds like it should be impossibly weird. And I think it'll just be very weird. Do you think space data centers will provide.

More aggressively to increase the supply of fabs. Yeah, I think it is. Well, it may get solved on its own. It may, like normal capitalism may solve it. But I think somehow deciding as a society that we are going to increase the wafer capacity of the world and we're going to fund that and we're going to get, you know, the whole supply chain and the talented people we need to make that happen would be a very good thing to do. Do you think there's an upper bound on model iq? Like the race right now is you're smart, but you're not smart for days, you're smart for hours. Can you.

But there will be other parts too Is software dead? It's different it's definitely not dead but what software like how you create it how you're going to use it how much you're going to have written for you each time you need it versus how much you'll want sort of a consistent UX that's all going to change you know there have been a number of these like big sell offs of SaaS stocks over the last few years as these models have rolled out there I expect there will continue to be more I expect there will be big booms in software I think it's just going to be volatile for a while as people figure out what this looks like the statement that someone said to me that has stuck in my mind most these last couple of weeks is that every company is an API company now whether they want to be or not because agents are just going to be able to write a CSS yeah we had Dara from Uber on.

For us, it's running companies for us, it's doing all this stuff. And that sounds like it should be impossibly weird. And I think it'll just be very weird. Do you think space data centers will provide a meaningful amount of compute for OpenAI in the next two to three years? Five years? No. 10 years. You just keep going, 10,000 years. I wish Elon luck. Okay. The funny thing about the whole back and forth about ads is that in our world, the criticism is that you didn't launch ads early.

OpenAI leadership team, you guys are in a position where any single word or sentence you say in any situation can be spun into a headline immediately, and then you guys have to go on damage control, kind of correcting the narrative. But of course, the original message is often, or at least the original news is often seen more broadly than the. Than the correction. It seems like an interesting challenge. It. It is a strange way to live it. And I don't, like, I don't know of any private company that has ever been so in the news and so under a microscope. And at some level, it's frustrating. And we're so squarely in the sights of everybody's anxieties and every competitor trying to take us down. And everybody's like, just what is going to happen with AI to their part of the business or their own lives that there's a lot of plasma looking for an instability to collapse on. In some other sense, though the subjective experience of it is we are so busy on so much exciting stuff that it often feels like there's this crazy hurricane turning around us. And when we sit, it's like, fairly calm. The media or Twitter goes insane about something one day. They're talking about a crazy meltdown. We're like, that is insane. Okay? And people talk about it all day and then later find out it's wrong. And sort of seemed like a lot of wasted energy. But we're just like, we have this great new model coming. People are building incredible stuff. Companies are transforming. We're trying to, like, figure out how to get more compute and deal with this compute crunch. And we just kind of like, keep going and we're busy. And then if we, like, open Twitter, pop up our heads and look at the news, it's like, wow, that is an insane, crazy thing happening. Completely divorced from reality, or 99% divorced from reality. And like, okay, someone will correct it. But then we get back to work and people flip out again. And it is weird to watch when we look outside, but it is less chaotic internally than I think you would imagine from reading the media reports. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us. Congrats on the congratulations. I'm excited to see the Codex ad. Me too. Please try.

Ads, the products that we build, how we teach people to use those products, that feels very important. Yeah. Anthropic also has a bunch of ads in the Super Bowl. Seems like run a ton. Damn heard. What do you think that they're getting wrong about their characterization of how ads will roll out in chat apps? Well, it's just wrong. The main thing that I think is we are not stupid. We respect our users. We understand that if we did something like what those ads depict, people would rightfully stop using the product. No one like our first principle with ads is that we're not going to put stuff into the LLM stream that would feel crazy dystopic, like bad sci fi movie. So the main thing that's wrong with the ads is like using a deceptive ad to criticize deceptive ads feels. I don't know. Something doesn't sit right with me about that. I asked Claude the definition of playing dirty and it said what did it say? Misleading others about your intentions, hiding information or creating false impressions. Thought it was a little dirty. I thought it was well played. But it was. It was well played for sure. And it was a funny ad. And they, you know, like the sort of the stuff about the ChatGPT personality that most annoys me which we'll fix very soon. I thought they nailed in the ad so that part was funny. Yeah, but I don't know, you know, like I also. I think it's great for them not to do ads. We have a different shaped business. I did notice that they said in their thing like we may later revise this decision and we'll explain why if so. Yeah. The war Pro action. The blog post was kind of did a good job of disarming the pro ad. People gave themselves an out in the future. Do you think they care? It doesn't matter. Like I think it's a sideshow. You know people are excited for a food fight and between companies but like the. The amazing capabilities of these models, the product, the kind of like the groundswell of excitement around Codex, the. That feels way more important. How do you stop the pausing that happens in voice mode? Do you need new hardware for that or is it a model capability thing? We need new model.

Double kill. 5 cook. Is up. Please. Team deathmatch. We are experts. Triple legs. Let's just roll right. Market clearing order in balance. Come get. You're surrounded by journalists. Hold your position. Strike 1. Strike 2. Activate. Go. Golden retriever mode. Market clearing order inbound. 5, I see multiple journalists on the horizon. You're watching TVPN. Today is Thursday, February 5, 2026. We are live from the TVPN Ultra Dome, the temple of technology, the fortress of finance. Let me tell you about ramp.com, time is money save. Both easy use, corporate cards, bill pay, accounting and a whole lot more all in one place. We have a quite the lineup today. Let's pull up the linear lineup. Meet the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprises on enterprise workspaces on linear are using agents. And we have a lineup for you today. We got Sam Altman from OpenAI joining Sholto from Open Source. If you're not familiar, Sam Altman is the CEO of OpenAI. They are the makers of of ChatGPT. Yes. I did actually explain to someone. I was like, oh, do you know, I was explaining the show to some random person. I was like, oh. They were like, what do you do? What do you talk about? And I was like, oh, do you know, like OpenAI? Yeah. I was like, oh, we're having Sam on the show today. Are they like, who? No, no, no, no. They were like, oh, that's cool. Like, that's good. Like, like I understand what the show is. But then we have dan Barkello from T1 Energy talking about building solar panels in America and of course our lightning round, which I'm very excited for. So we've been thinking more about the super bowl that's coming up. We've been thinking more about ads, the response to the ads, the back and forth with the ads. Rune had a good post here. He said, putting on my media. Observe. Putting my media observer hat on. Anthropic ads are pretty brilliant because they're dishonest in a way that's only going to rage bait OpenAI heads and certain industry insiders, but are funny and striking to everyone else. When you're a call option, calling them a call option, kind of a diss. Spots fired variance is good. Mario Kart, blue shell. Are you familiar? Have you ever played Mario Kart? Do you understand? Not enough to get the reference. So I played Mario Kart. I think so long ago, blue shells didn't exist. But I've been playing my kids and I've since learned the importance of the blue Shell, the blue shell. It targets just the first player, just whoever's in first. It's a great metaphor for what's going on here when you're in. When you're not in first place, you get the blue shell. You can take a shot at the leader without even needing to call them out. So you can just say the category's bad, and everyone assumes you're talking about, you know who. So I thought that was an interesting thing. Trey says Sam Altman, the Koenigsegg collector. Yes, yes, yes, that one. Yes. Deep down. Anyway, so everybody had a take on this yesterday. It was perfect in how much kind of controversy it generated. It was wildly entertaining. I wanted to kind of. I'll read through. Kind of like my updated take. Yeah, I got a little bit of process. Yeah, I got a little bit of pushback. I said they were playing dirty. Signal responded to me and said, not dirty at all. So I wanted to address that. Okay, dig in. But first, let me tell you about Consul. Consul builds AI agents that automate 70% of it. HR finance support, giving employees instant resolution for access requests. Anyway, so, yeah, I was processing this more. We obviously watched some ads yesterday. We watched the Get a Mac campaign. We watched the Bud Light special delivery one, which is about, Bud Light is in a castle. They get an order of corn syrup. They're like, we don't use corn syrup. That must be for Coors Light and other competitors. And so I was processing them, and the difference there is that those advertisements are truthful, Right. Like, people that have had a PC have probably gotten a virus. Right? So when Mac is, like, riffing on that, it's like, it's truthful, right? Yeah. And they had some data to back it up. It's not deceitful. I would say if I'm putting on my steel manning Microsoft in 2007 hat or 2003, I would say, hey, we do have Windows PC Defender. We're fighting viruses. And is it possible to get a virus on a Mac? Probably. Is it. Is it possible to not get a virus on a PC? Yes. And. And on Microsoft, people are like, yeah, no one makes Microsoft or no one makes viruses for your computers because you don't sell very many. It's not very ROI positive. Good point. Anyways, and then Bud Light's campaign was, like, truthful, even though it was aggressive in that you could look up the ingredient list of their competitors and see that they did, in fact, use corn syrup. And you can make your own decision on whether or not you like that ingredient. But they were just drawing awareness. And so. And so my point is that I think that anthropics ads are like closer to political attack ads and that they're sort of intentionally taking, kind of trying to be deceptive. Right. They haven't broken any laws. They don't name ChatGPT. They're just sort of like throwing mud at the whole category. I asked, yeah, so anyways, I said they were playing dirty. I got some pushback on it. I asked Claude, I said, claude, how would you define playing dirty? And Claude said, playing dirty generally means achieving your goals through tactics that are deceptive, unethical, or that violate the understood rules and norms of a given context. Even if you're not technically illegal, it's the gap between what you can do and what you should do. A few dimensions to it. It goes into deception. Misleading others about your intentions, hiding information, or creating false impressions to gain an advantage. These campaigns do an amazing job creating a false perception or impression of what ads in LLMs are going to be like. I do think the response, just to chime in some random stuff, but I think the response to the ads. We were wondering, outside of the tvpn, we love ads. Ads are fine and they're not going to do anything weird. We're strong supporters. What will the public's reception be like? Will Cloud skyrocket to the top of the charts because these ads are so effective? Will general consumers buy the line that, yes, the chat apps are going to get weird with the ads or not? And I was scrolling on Instagram reels last night, completely randomly. I was not looking for anthropic content. I think I followed the Claude account. Maybe, maybe not. It just targeted me. It hits me with a vertical version of the ad. It's called Deception. I think something like that. No, Violation. Violation is the one that I. It's not called deception. It'd be a little too on the nose. I think there is one called Deception. There's a bunch. They all have different names. Anyway, it's called Violation and there's a screen grab here. Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember. So people were like, the. The anthropic deception ad is deceptive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So violation pops up and it's this, and it's this Claude AI and it has almost 6,000 likes. Even when it just got served to me, I. My interpretation was like, this is working. This is popular. This is. It's not just beautifully shot, it's well edited for vertical. Yeah, it's either. It's either really resonating or they're putting a massive amount of spend behind it, or both. This is what it looked like vertically. And then this is the funny thing. So in this ad, you see the guy struggling to do a pull up. He asks, you know what's supposed to be an LLM? Create a fitness plan for me. And then the fitness bot says, hey, you know what else could help? 1 inch insoles from height max or something like that. And it's like, this looks maximally, it's very funny. But it's a 1 inch insert that would go in your shoes. I scroll up, what's the next ad that Meta serves me? An ad for a three inch insert. Three inch insert. And the ad is actually deceptive. It says the guy can go from 5, 9 to 6 1. That's 4 inches. And so these are full shoes that have the inserts built in. And for some reason I got in even though I'm not in the market for insoles. The algorithm just knows that I love these ads because they're very funny and they're very on trend with the looks Max thing. And so I get served these ads constantly. This is all Meta shows me is these, is these height enhancing shoes, Because I think I actually clicked on them and was like digging in. So you, you bought them, right? Of course, of course. You're just trying to get to seven feet. Yeah, you're trying to get to seven feet. That would be. That would be good. That would be good. Tyler, do you have something on this? Yeah, I was just gonna say. So I saw on Instagram as well, I saw some of the cloud ads and in the comments, I mean, people were riding with clot. They are, yeah. It was like normies. Yeah, no, totally, totally. Yeah. Like they're winning the vibe war. They've been winning the vibe war with developers and they've been winning the vibe war on X and now it feels like they're about to win the vibe war in the public, in the public square. So I said really quickly, let me tell you about figma. Figma makes isn't your average vibe coding tool. It lives in figma so outputs look good, feel real and stay connected to how teams build, create code back prototypes and apps fast. Sorry. I said two things can be true about the campaign. It's brilliant, well timed and incredibly strategic for a few reasons. I'll outline below. And it's designed to plant a false impression of ChatGPT's forthcoming ad product in the minds of hundreds of millions of Americans. They could argue, oh, we're not Trying to do that, but you can't really kind of argue with the effect. So Anthropic accomplishes a lot. The campaign entertains America. Right. It's wildly entertaining. It's hilarious. Truly like the, the perfect like, sycophancy that you can hear. You can hear the em dashes, the pauses. It's amazing. Really good. Mother. Mother is the name of the agency that they crushed it. They're also putting themselves on the map ahead of the ipo. I think in some ways certain audiences would know more about Anthropic than Claude. Right? Yeah. Even if you're just generally interested in investing in AI, you're probably hearing about Anthropic more than you're hearing about Claude. It builds their aura with insiders. I said if they spend $100 million on this campaign and all it does is help retain a couple of truly elite researchers, it's worth it. What are you laughing at? I love it. Noah's saying Anthropic is campaigning to get themselves banned. Just like with misinformation. Just going way too far and it backlashes. That's just funny to me. We can go back to it somewhat. Continues their like fear based messaging that they've been, they've been kind of riding with in general. Yeah, yeah. Back at the essays. Effectively rage baits. OpenAI. They got fully baited completely. Sam switched out of his like, you know, lowercase typing and was like, I gotta go into uppercase for this one. Lots of responsibility increases the public's general scrutiny of the ads rollout. And then Washington too, is another factor. Maybe. Yeah. I just think it'll come up totally. You have to ask Mark Zuckerberg, how do you make money? Anything's on the table these days. And then the other thing is it's going to broadly damage consumer trust in LLMs. Some people will just be like, wait, like they've been kind of like making money on me without me knowing. Right. Or can I trust every output as like actually good advice or am I being monetized? Yeah. And this is the one that you think could come back to bite them. The other five are pretty good potentially. But it depends what their consumer strategy is. Right now they're saying we don't care about consumer. They've said that a lot. But their actions kind of speak differently in some ways. I said Anthropic has consistently told the market they don't care about consumer. But I'm not sure. The argument for ads is that they'll make LLMs free for people that can't afford to pay a subscription. But Anthropic has already lost the race to serve billions of people. Right. I don't think that they're. When you look at Gemini's sort of traction, OpenAI's ChatGPT traction, it seems like the race to get to 3 billion monthly actives is kind of over. I don't believe that. I don't believe that Claude's going to come behind and get there. And they wouldn't be able to do that without doing ads. Right. Because there's like you can kind of. Run the blue shell take out in front. So. So the question that kind of where I was taking this is can they. Can they deliver a luxury product to a smaller cohort in the hundreds of millions to kind of iPhone numbers? Right. There's like roughly like one and a half billion iPhones that are like active in the world. Those people could all buy a cheaper Android and just cheaper devices, but they've paid a premium for the iPhone because they can. And for many people it delivers a better experience. So I said the iPhone was not the first smartphone. Claude was not the first consumer LLM. The iPhone did differentiate on specs early, not unlike a model card. But Apple did eventually pivot to more emotional arguments for why you should be seen with an iPhone. It tells people you care about the environment, that you don't have adult apps flooding your app store, and that you take privacy seriously. These have had varying levels of success. Every tech company was able to tell an ESG story, and I can't imagine an Apple exec even saying the word porn today. Even though Steve Jobs was very pointed about it back in 2010. He said, you know, there's a porn store for Android. You can download porn, your kids can download porn. That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not going to go there. Calling out the competition by name and dropping that is like. Yeah. And the key thing here is that it was factual. It was like, it wasn't deceptive. No, no. And so I don't think, I don't think that was. That was edgy. But he wasn't playing dirty. Yeah, yeah. And so Apple did, however, carve out a solid messaging strategy around privacy and allowed them to put the screws to advertisers. The market adjusted and the ad industry obviously survived. But average Americans still feel that Facebook is listening to their conversations to target ads. Consumers deserve choice. It's great if they want to pay for ad free tiers. Most don't.1% in Europe for Facebook, by the way, that's the stat. They all have the option to pay for Facebook for ad, Free Facebook and only 1%. So consumers deserve choice, but they should not be misled about how ad platforms work. Android has generated an immense amount of value for the world. So as Google broadly, let consumers choose, but let them choose intelligently. Yes, I have a rebuttal, but I'm going to tell you about Lambda Lambda is the super intelligence, cloud building, AI superfoods for training and inference at scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. So my rebuttal. What do you mean, my steel, man, is that, and to be clear, I'm. Not saying anthropic shouldn't have done this. Oh, yeah. I'm just saying that it was a little dirty. Yeah, they're rolling around in the mud. It's good. They're in the trough. We love the trough. We live in the trough. We live for the trough. My steel, man, is that they didn't cross the line. They didn't play dirty because they didn't call out chap GPT directly. Okay, you can take that, whatever you want. But wills, the other thing is they're punching. They are punching up. They're punching up. They are punching up. Yes. But third, there is a world where something like this will happen. There is a world where the ads do get integrated in such a seamless way. If you look at the evolution of Google's 10 blue links, it started with 10 blue links, no ads. Then it was a very clear yellow box with ad, and it was very clear that it was nat. And over time, the UI evolved to be a lot less aggressive about telling you that it's an ad. And the ads on meta platforms do get creepy sometimes. You talk about something and then you see the ad. And maybe that's just confirmation bias or some sort of cognitive. You only notice the ones that are weird, so they all feel weird. You see a lot of stuff that you weren't talking about that doesn't trigger anything. But when you see the thing that you were just talking to your friend about, I was just talking to you about sweaters. And I see an ad for sweater, I'm like, how did it know? And realistically, it knows because you just went on Facebook, you found that sweater, you bought it. It knows that we're friends. We're dming, we're talking. We're literally friends on the platform. And so it's like, well, if Jordi likes this and they're hanging out all the time, sending each other DMs. Why don't I just show John what I just sold to Jordy? That makes perfect sense. That's something that can be done with just stock, Vanilla Machine learning, Core AI inside Facebook and Meta. And they do that very effectively. But it can feel sort of creepy sometimes. And some people get creeped out by it and they talk about it. And so the idea that an interaction like that might happen is not complete science fiction. It is possible. And so they are sort of warning that, hey, if you want to make sure that this never happens, it's our pledge that that's not even on the table. Now. The big question is, when's Anthropic launching ads? We gotta get them to launch ads. Well, I don't think they can now. No, they have to. It's okay. I give them permission. I will say, everyone's gonna be dunking. Oh, you went back on your promise. No, I will be your strongest soldier. I will be your strongest soldier, and I will say it's the right thing to do. Put ads in Claude code. Put ads in Claude. Put ads in the comments of the code that you write. So if someone reviews the code, they're seeing an ad. That's what I want. That's the future I want to live for anyway. Turbo Puffer, Serverless vector and full text search built from first principles and object storage. Fast 10x cheaper and extremely scalable. Oh, and you know, I gotta tell you more about ads vibe, where D2C brands, B2B startups and AI companies advertise on streaming TV, pick channels, target audiences, and measure sales, just like on Meta. We love ads here and we love doing ads for ads. Zach Kukoff says, every time I see Anthropic and OpenAI, I try to distinguish themselves with comms marketing. I realize how much we are replaying the PC wars from the 90s. Anthropic, tasteful, elegant, opinionated, prosumer, expert enterprise. OpenAI. Populist, broadly appealing, Low consumer, low consumer, plus typical enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. So Anthropic is The Apple and OpenAI is the Microsoft, and they're also aligned with Microsoft or owned in part by Microsoft. Yes. Yeah, I mean, it would be. It would be interesting to hear Dario just talk for an hour purely about just the risks of advertising and AI. Yeah, right, because that would be powerful. Certainly wouldn't have been as effective as dragging Open AI in front of hundreds of millions of people. But, I mean, doesn't Anthropic have a podcast? Podcast? I think they do. TJ was helping Sam with Some comms. Anthropic might think more serious. He said fix it for you. Anthropic might think more seriously about adding ads if they had any consumers using their product. Just taking a very tactful response to a situation. Just being like, what if you amped it up, Brad? Yeah. I mean you've already lost. If you're just dropping a massive word salad, maybe. I don't know. I think there's a lot of nuance here and it's good. I do think it's important to not maul, to not be angry and made mad. And don't let people spike your cortisol. Exactly. They're going to be gesture maxing at the super bowl and you can't let it affect you. You got to focus on the new models which have launched today. There's a bunch of new stuff. So GPT 5.3 Codex launched today and there's a very, very cool, there's a very, very cool update to or new product Frontier, which is a product for building AI co workers that I'm very excited to talk to Sam about because it feels like the first glimpse of an orchestration product which we talked about yesterday. Gastown has been taking off. I mean, let's give some credit to John. By the skin of my teeth. No, it would. It might seem like John had early insight on today's OpenAI launch. We did not. We didn't. No, we actually didn't. But in hindsight, you called it perfectly crystal ball. Crystal ball Elite Alpha. One day of Alpha. One day of Alpha. Yeah. If you had launched a enterprise focused orchestration platform yesterday. Yes. You could have raised money, got sold. Secondary right before OpenAI immediately launched a very. Are you going to get steel from OpenAI? They're not even thinking about this. They launch it the next day. Who knows? Who knows? Anyway, let's move on to Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that lets you grow, that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces and now with AI agents. Matt Turk says regular startup. We closed a few customers and shipped some new features. Good week so far. Anthropic. We destroyed our main rival with our super bowl ads and tanked the entire software category in public markets by announcing some plugins. Good week so far. Oh yeah. We barely even talked about this, but Anthropic launched a lawyer in your pocket. They launched a legal tool or they announced it, I don't know. Is it actually available in the app yet? Because this, this, it Feels like, okay, maybe this competes with Harvey. I'm not seeing it yet in the cloud app, but I don't really think. It competes with Harvey. No, no, no. So I don't think it does because they're selling it direct to consumer, I believe at least. But it seems like an amazing product. Like it seems like the demand for this would be incredible. Yeah. So many people. It will compete with LegalZoom. Like LegalZoom is down 15% since this announcement. Sure, sure, sure. It's now a $1.38 billion company. Yeah. Sort of in Chegg mode. Yeah. And not just for, I mean, legal Zoom's a little bit different because you can actually file you incorporation documents and they've been. They face pressure from Stripe Atlas for a long time on a bunch of other LLCs and whatnot. But I mean, truly, like, if you're getting a job and your employer gives you an offer letter, like taking that to a lawyer can be really expensive. If it's your first job, you're probably not going to review it. A lot of people are probably just copy pasting it into or asking their parents. Take a look at this, a little. Bit of that and then they can't. But just being able to just forward the email in or integrate your Gmail and just say, hey, I got this offer letter. Like, does anything in here look weird? Is there anything I should ask about? I don't have a ton of leverage, but I want to understand this document. Claude should be able to do that and it makes a lot of sense. And I expect OpenAI to launch this product like ASAP anyway. Yeah, I mean, so I think all that was actually launched for the cloud legal thing was just a plugin in Claude Cowork, which means it's basically just like MD files, right? Yeah, it's like skills, it's. But it feels like it goes beyond skills because they probably had to do some legal work of their own to make sure that they're like not giving legal advice and that they're couching things properly. I think that's also why ChatGPT Health is in a different area because they don't want any risk of like pre training on your testosterone levels. And then I go into the next version of ChatGPT and I say, what are Tyler Cosgrove's testosterone levels? And it just knows it because it learned it from the chats that you were sending it. There's a whole bunch of private information beyond testosterone levels, of course. Anyway, Railway Railway is the all in one intelligent cloud provider. Use your favorite agents to deploy web apps, servers, databases and more, while Railway takes care of scaling, monitoring and security automatically. Key over on X said TBH the Anthropic ads are good, but I think they're a bad idea. Normies are not going to think, wow, this is what ChatGPT is going to be like. I better subscribe to Claude.com they're going to think, wow, this is what AI is going to be like. Run agrees. He's not biased at all. He says suicide bombing strategy. It's bad for them but worse for OpenAI. You almost have to respect it. What was the text I sent sent you I don't know how to get on Anthropic. Yeah. John was asking a friend that's outside of tech and they were like, what's anthropic? How do I get on it? I don't know how. Yeah, let's go to Eric Seufrit. He said this anthropic ad is simply obnoxious. And then we'll move on to other stories. Anthropic generates most of its revenue from enterprise business, so it can afford to maximize its consumer revenue opportunity. But the sanctimonious moralizing here presents advertising as a cynical business model choice. It's neither cynical nor choice. The freemium digital advertising supported model is the only repeatedly proven pathway for a consumer technology product to reach humanity. At scale, there are just folks who can't pay $20 a month. OpenAI's advertising revenue will enable it to offer access to larger model to larger models for free tier users. To the extent Anthropic thinks chatbots powered by frontier models are valuable to society, it should aspire to provide access to as many people as possible. Now they'd probably say, hey, we're freemium. We do give access to chatbots powered by frontier models to free users. They just only get a certain amount and then they have to upgrade. But Eric's point still holds here. For sure, ads allow for that to an extent that no other consumer technology business model demonstrably can. This kind of condescending attitude toward digital advertising is economic chauvinism. And it represents a desire for technological gatekeeping. And the idea that ads will necessarily influence chatbot content is overstated, borderline anachronistic. Anachronistic because you don't do it that way anymore. You wait until, hey, this person's buying, you know, insoles or lifts and they're asking about the Roman Empire and this is the perfect time because they're just chilling, reading the Roman Empire. And they're thinking, oh, okay, yeah, I did need to buy that. And then they switch gears like, you don't need to put the ad right next to the content that relates to it. That's just an antiquated way of thinking about online advertising. Yeah. It ignores functional. Yeah. Again, I think Sam Altman did say in October of 2024. I kind of think of ads as a last resort for us as a business model. Yep. So again, he, he's going to, you know, has to eat his words on this one. They get to give a little bit of a victory lap. Yeah. So in that sense, criticism is fair. Anyway, before we move on, Crowdstrike, Your business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches. So Claude also announced a new model from Anthropic, of course. Introducing Claude, Opus 4.6. We have Sholto coming on the show at 12:30 to discuss that. They say it's our smart. It's the smartest model and it got an upgrade. Opus 4.6 plans more carefully, sustains agentic tasks for longer, operates reliably in massive code bases and catches its own mistakes. It's also our first Opus Class model with a 1 million token context Windows in beta. So very exciting. They put a number of. They put the model model card together. They did particularly well. What was the, what was the, the benchmark that stuck out to you, Tyler, you said. Yeah, I think it was Ark Agiv 2. It's now at like 69%, I think previous was, I believe it was 5.2, which was at, I want to say 55 around. So like pretty sizable upgrade. But I mean, with these things it's always so hard to tell. It's really just like qualitative differences at this point where the models are like, you have to use it for like an hour or two and then you can kind of tell what the differences are. Yeah. And also like in new contexts, like in terms of just the vanilla. Go and ask a question. It's been able to get you a pretty good answer for like years now, but it hasn't been able to go and pull a bunch of financial data together, fact check it all, put it in an Excel sheet. This is what they're pushing and this is what Clouseau Investments is so excited about. Ooh, says cluso, Anthropic updates AI model to field complex financial research. So Opus 4.6 is designed to carry out financial research and other work related functions. The company's expansion into new areas, including legal Service has rattled Wall street and sparked concerns about which companies and services will be disrupted by AI. The SaaS apocalypse is upon us. We will be asking Sam Altman, is software dead or are we back? Are we back? Who knows? Claude 4.6 opus is still best. It still has the best SVG results out of all the models. Just incredibly high taste, says Lisan Al Gaib. And these are some pretty beautiful pictures. Are you familiar with SVG programming? So you basically you draw each square and line in code. So you have to say, I want a square that goes from this pixel to this pixel to this pixel to this pixel and you add and layer all those up. It can be extremely time consuming if you do it by hand, but Claude can just sort of one shot it and it looks pretty beautiful on brand. It's an interesting benchmark because this isn't something you'd necessarily ask. These are not generative images in the diffusion sense. This isn't the mid journey model. This isn't what SORA uses. This is a different thing asking the model to basically write code that generates an image. So it really has to understand the back and forth between what it's building. So cool benchmark. I like that. I enjoyed that. I also like the New York Stock Exchange. Do you want to change the world? Raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange then? As easy as that. Anyway, the Anthropic handle being owned by a guy who only posts his favorite form of AI safety. Wordles. He only posts wordles. Oh, and he just has AD Anthropic. That's very funny from Paula Rambles. So this is a strange thing with. With X. They have policies around their handles that they really stand by in that Ramp is at. Ramp is not owned by Ramp at. Anthropic is not owned by Anthropic. And when you look at the accounts you think, is this really the best use of a handle like this? Paul Comparison. Paul Giancura, who is at Anthropics is emphatically not an AI company. Ohioan, liberal bookworm. Newshound. Oh, wow. He probably Anglophile if he's a bookworm. If he's a bookworm, he probably loves sitting on the anthropic handle. Given that Anthropic has been worming their. Way through some books, chewing through some books much like a worm. Yeah, we didn't get to that article. That was a funny, funny article. You gotta feed Claude. It's okay. The books. The book's gotta feed. And they have to. Yeah. Potentially bigger than the water thing. Like it's just so visceral. People love books and watching them be destroyed. Yeah, if you didn't see Anthropic destroyed. Book, yes, I agree. But people don't like destroying books. They're sensitive about that. The very funny thing is that Paul at Anthropic on Twitter on X has has migrated to Blue sky for many things, but he didn't get the anthropic handle on blue sky. He's anthropic 42 over there. So shoot him a follow if you're hanging out looking for wordle progress. People are playing around with the nominative determinism. Yes, say Google CEO is named Pichai. His purpose is to pitch AI. Dario's last name is literally AI model. Maybe I should change my name to Pitch MongoDB. John Pitch MongoDB. Choose a database built for flexibility and scale with best in class embedding models and rerankers. MongoDB has what you need to build. What's next? Dylan Patel is sharing some Data. He says 4% of GitHub public commits are being authored by Claude code right now. At the current trajectory, we believe that Claude code will be 20% of all daily commits by the end of 2026. That feels low to me. I was expecting 99%. Well, I mean, so I think the way you can see this is because like, whenever you actually do a commit with cloud code, it adds itself. So this is like there's a ton of people that are like using Claude code but then not attributing back to Claude. Yes, and we also have some news. Doug o' Laughlin from Sunday Analysis will be joining the show tomorrow to break down Claude code. We might have to pull him out of his psychosis. He is addicted to Claude code. He's running multiple instances at all times and has updated his profile picture in the semianalysis Slack to reflect his devotion to the shoggoth. I suppose. Anyway, so OpenAI unveils Frontier, a product for building AI co workers. This is in the Wall street journal and OpenAI also posted about it. The new platform, launched amid market fears over AI's disruption to software, is aimed at helping business businesses develop AI agents that work alongside humans. And so there are some interesting questions. Here about think of these as, like, AI co workers that are actively trying to take your job. Like, they're trying to help, but they also like, want. They want your title, they want your comp. They want to learn everything about what makes you great and they want you to. Maybe. Or maybe they're just trying to empower you, Jordi. Maybe they're just trying to make you a better you. I don't know. Maybe they're just coming over, just cracking jokes, trying to distract you while learning. So that they can take you literally do both. They can literally do both. Before we dive into this, let me tell you about Restream 1 livestream 30 plus destinations if you want to multi stream go to restream.com so Frontier works with OpenAI's previously announced AI agent building tools and makes it easier for businesses to combine sources of data that agents need to perform tasks, the AI company said. The agents will be able to process information from various sources and complete tasks like working with files and running code, OpenAI said. So no more copy paste everything into your into your ChatGPT Enterprise Edition. It should have access to your network. Plug into all your different systems. You'll be able to write API bindings I imagine. And there might be some forward deployed engineers or some associates from OpenAI that are helping you actually onboard fully to the agentic workflows that have been promised. Yeah, they're hiring how many consultants to help with this go to market? They are hiring hundreds of AI consultants to boost enterprise sales. This is information job creation. Yeah, this is, this is a great gig. I would highly recommend jumping on this if you're in this. If you're in this market. OpenAI is hiring hundreds of new staffers to expand a technical consulting team that helps large corporations develop custom AI applications and agents to automate employee tasks according to a person's knowledge. With the company's plans, the hiring effort could help it beat back a competition from arch rival Anthropic, which has also upped its game in catering to enterprises. It comes as OpenAI prepares to launch a new enterprise offering that would unify businesses efforts to use AI. The ChatGPT maker is expanding its number of technical consultants, also known as forward deployed engineers, who can customize OpenAI's model using a client's own data, a person said. These engineers can, for example, help T mobile develop AI to respond to customer service requests or help Intuit provide its customers with tax preparation services. So you have all this data, you want to do long context reinforcement learning on it. Long context reinforcement learning has been very, very successful in the coding world because Git has a complete history of every line of code that's been written, every comment, why it happened. You have this perfect record of everything that happened when you built a piece of software and there's a ton of open source repositories you can Download all of GitHub basically and see how software is developed. So you can train the model on that. Well, you can't really get the same level of free data with enterprises. A lot of this data is locked up and a lot of it's specific to a specific business process. Business. Yeah. Let's pull up an image. There's a little graphic here that they. Made from OpenAI's frontier OpenAI.com index. Introduce. Yeah. And if you can zoom in a little bit at the bottom you have your system of record. You have business context, agent execution, evaluation and optimization. Your agents, OpenAI agents, third party agents. That feels significant. Right. They want to be the orchestrator. Right. And if you want to bring in some other folks in to help out, great. At least for now. And then they have interfaces which they're ChatGPT, Enterprise, OpenAI, Atlas and other business applications. I'm a little upset that they didn't go with a Mad Max theme like Gastown. I like the Polecats. I like the Mayor. I like the Deacon. I thought that was a fun metaphor. They went with something a little more enterprise y. But I think Frontier is a good name. I don't know, it flows. Of course, it's not frontier 5.2 high, so we gotta count our blessings here, but I think Frontier works, you know? Are you. Are you working on a Frontier integration project? Oh, Those consultants from OpenAI, they're getting us onboarded to Frontier. It sounds good. Why is Tyler laughing? Tyler's laughing? Yeah. I'm getting flamed in the comments. What's up with Tyler's hair today? You gotta chill. Yeah. What happened? Did you use shampoo? Nor conditioner. I need a haircut. I need a haircut. Maybe. Maybe you need a hat. Maybe you can grab one of those TVPN hats over there. You'll be good, don't worry. Let me tell you about Applovin. Profitable advertising made easy with Axon and AI. Get access to over 1 billion daily active users and grow your business today. We'll get more from Sam on Frontier. Yes, I think we can move on. So the last thing on 5.2, the last benchmark that's interesting is GPT 5.2 with high, not extra high. Reasoning effort has a 50% time horizon of around 6.6 hours on our expanded suite of software tasks. This is the highest estimate for time horizon measurement we have reported to date. And it's right on track, doubling every 128 days. It depends on what you're looking for. But the implications of this are more and more tasks are suitable for these models. Although I do think we're going through a shift with the orchestration thing where we might need a new benchmark. Because what happens if you know, the individual model GPT 5.2 high can do one six hour task basically, but you can deploy five that talk to each other and when you combine those it adds up to 20 hours of work. You just get a jump in the graph. But it's not technically the model so you need sort of a new benchmark supposedly. Jessica Lesson likes Sam Altman's post. She says this is excellent comms from Sam Altman. An eye popping stat in an easy to understand claim. I hate though this budding movement to frame the business model debate as elitism versus anti elitism. When Chatbots launched with subscription business models, I thought it would be a great new era of consumer tech blended with ads and subs, much as we've seen with Netflix and Spotify. It would be a shame if the OpenAI vs. Anthropic rivalry wipes that away and makes it seem like subscriptions are only the domain of the elite. So many other consumer businesses show otherwise and they are better off for the balance. I like that signal says either you or I have lost the ability to process reality. Yeah. In response to this. In response to that. Okay. Yeah. No, a lot of people didn't think this was great comms at all. Yeah. I mean I would say like most of the posts I saw were like, hey, like this feels like you got baited. Yeah. Yeah. Because you could have just not responded, I guess. Yeah. Or you could have said, he said later in the day. I'm excited to share that Codex has 1 million users. Yeah. Product they launched this week. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Just focus on yourself. Maybe. I don't know. Meanwhile, over in Silicon Land. Silicon land. Greg says GV200 has really been enabling us to do some amazing things. Yeah. It is remarkable how, you know, relatively slow the rollout has been. Obviously it's been very quick but it does take time from the time that Nvidia announces these chips to actually fabbing them, racking them, wiring them up, getting ready to train new models. And so yeah, I mean I think. Dean Ball had a new post today and he said like, you know, companies don't even have Blackwells yet. Like yeah, so we haven't seen. There's no models that have been trained on Blackwell. Yeah, pretty like get ready, get ready to, to see some progress. But we got Mike Isaac in the chat, he says not good Comms not good. Comes expand, Mike, expand. I'm with Mike on that one. We'll see. I'll look up Mike's and I will. Tell you about Google earnings because we touched on this, but it's important in the context. So Alphabet sales hit record spending to double. They're going all in on AI. Google parent Alphabet reported an 18% jump in fourth quarter revenue driven by growth in digital advertising. Before we go into this, Mike had a banger yesterday. He said by the number of OpenAI employees I see tweeting about Anthropic super bowl at Anthropic should be paying OpenAI earned media fees. Yeah, that was a good take. Got them. Sales reached nearly $114 billion ahead of analyst expectations. Net income 34.5 billion. A 30% increase compared with the period a year earlier. The company reported a record for 403 billion in sales. For 2025 profit 132 billion. Not too bad. Alphabet shares were sort of all over the place. The Wall Street Journal printed that they went down 1% in after hours trading. But there's a lot going on. Google, like other technology companies, plans to spend tens of billions of dollars to develop AI models and build the data centers needed to train and run them. The company said it expected to spend between 175 billion and 185 billion in capex in 2026, up from 91 billion to 93 billion in 2025. So they're like doubling, which is. It's exponential growth really. Get ready for some AI progress. Yeah, somebody. I don't have it pulled up, but somebody was saying that the 2026 projected capex will be more than the lifetime capex for Google up to 2021. So in a single year they're going to eclipse that, which is just insane. Buco had a good take. He said Google capex on purpose. Tell the market this is what it will take to defeat us before IPOs hit. Yeah, certainly nerve wracking if you're competing with them. But they have the edge on the capital side in the capital war over Anthropic and OpenAI. But the race is still real. Yeah. Let me tell you about phantom cash. Fund your wallet without exchanges or middlemen and spend with the phantom card. The Wall Street Journal had some more context on Google. Google leans hard into its AI winter status. AI winner status, not AI winter ad and cloud growth acceleration justify the recent surge in Alphabet stock. But blowout Capex forecast still takes one's breath away. The motto for the artificial intelligence race today should be if you've got it, spend it. That's a message that Meta platforms took to heart during its fourth quarter report last week, when the Facebook and Instagram parent announced plans to spend up to 135 billion on capex, compared to about 72 billion last year. Google managed to up the ante Wednesday with its own plan to spend as much as 185 billion this year, which would be about doubles last year's outlay. Google's annual revenue has now topped 400 billion, about twice as large as Meta's. Still, that new spending target, even for a company that has been firing all cylinders lately, takes one's breath away. The stock price slipped in after hours trading after its fourth quarter report and conference call. Google has both the political and financial capital to lay such a bet. The company's Gemini 3 model has put it on top of a heap of performance for AI models, while the unmatched distribution of its search engine and products like Gmail have quickly driven adoption. Google said Wednesday that it has more than 750 million monthly active users just on its Gemini app, which only represents a portion of Gemini's actual users because it's vended into all the different products. What's going on in the chat? 4O army has entered the chat. Interesting. You're hitting the chat with keep4 okay. They want to be heard by Sam Aldman. Well, it's not. It's not keep 4.0. Hasn't 4o been deprecated? And so yeah, they want to upgrade the update the hashtag to say like. Bring back 40 revive 40 revive 4.0. It's actually not leaving till February 13th. Oh okay. So there is time to reverse the decision. I am interested to know about the operating cost of keeping 4.0 alive because it feels like if it rolls well. That was clearly something people were willing to pay for. Yeah, can you just leave in the corner and just like a handle runs and it was, you know, maybe more of like a user behavior decision than a financial one because it seems like like running legacy models. Cancel for okay. Strong reception of Gemini, along with Google's victory over the federal government's efforts to break up the company, have cheered investors when sentiment on technology and AI is faltering. Alphabet stock price has jumped around 20% in the last three months. Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon.com and Broadcom have all lost ground during that time. But capital matters too. And here is where Google's business model pays off the most. The company's advertising arm has long Been a lucrative cash cow that is still managing double digit growth rates. Growth has actually accelerated, with ad revenue up 14% in the fourth quarter compared to 13% in the previous one. It's exactly what we saw at Meta. The ads are getting better, baby. The company's cloud computing division was even more impressive, with revenue growth jumping 48% year over year to hit 17.8 billion. Google Cloud hasn't seen growth like that since early 2021, when the business was still less than a third of its current size. Google Cloud turned in a record 5.3 billion in operating profit in the last quarter, a figure that was 45% higher than Wall Street's targets. The company's booming business produced nearly $165 billion in operating cash flow in in 2025, the highest in the S&P 500. These strong results will help investors digest the latest investment plan. But spending could be. Spending what could be 40% of annual revenue on AI chips and related infrastructure is still a sizable gamble. Such investments will sharply elevate depreciation charges, which in the latest quarter quarter reduced net income by 18%. Google isn't the bargain. It was less than a year ago when breakup years had the stock trading at less than 16 times projected earnings. My question is when does the AI build out stop? Because if you're constantly investing more and more, where does the cash flow come from? As an analyst, you look at this and you say okay, they're spending, you know, 50% of their revenue or 40% of their revenue on the AI build out on data centers. But how long will they need to do this? Like if they have to do this forever, then you just permanently have a worse business because you're just constantly buying hardware. Yeah. I mean you get a massive capability increase lots of labor moves into data centers and eventually the revenue spike a lot. You can enter a scenario where it makes sense to continue to increase capex because revenue is accelerating even faster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Notable that Nvidia is still trading down today even, even after that update on earnings. Like you would expect people to look and see. Like hey, you know, Jensen had pretty given some pretty kind of wild projections, right? Looking out of the next couple of years. Yeah. And you have to mention here makes. It a lot more spend a lot on tpu but still they will be buying a lot of Nvidia chips for sure really quickly. Let me tell you about Plaid. Plaid powers the apps you use to spend, save, borrow and invest securely. Connecting bank accounts to move money, fight fraud and improve lending. Now with AI Richard says Google is a company that doesn't do hype. For them to go and increase CAPEX from 90 billion to 180 billion is probably the most bullish thing long term investors can see as it shows the scale of future revenue growth. I'm shocked that at this stage most still don't understand this. Yeah, so excited about it. What did Doug say over at Fabricated Knowledge? He said Google made 163 billion in CFO last year and is now planning to spend 180 billion in capex next year. Now def think acceleration is coming but wowza, I'd rather go bankrupt than lose the race. Quoting Sergey the trailing 12 months of free cash flow is staggering over there. Going to make 200 billion in cash flow this year. Still less than Capex for now. Also going to have 80 billion in net cash and probably 100 billion in myriad minority illiquid equity stakes. So yeah, they own like SpaceX and. A bunch of Waymo Waymo. With current rates of growth they can raise 300 billion in 2030 without even going into debt. Totally agree, but this feels pretty close to the pedal to the metal to me says Doug. So Joe Wiesenthal says the average person on Earth is watching 25 YouTube shorts every single day. YouTube shorts average 200 billion daily views. That's a lot. That is just insane. That's a lot. I mean you can watch a YouTube short in like what, five seconds on average, right? Because you skip one, you watch one for five seconds when for 15 seconds. So I mean 25 YouTube shorts, that feels like maybe five or 10 minutes of browsing but still like pretty, pretty staggering. Yeah, I haven't migrated any. Like I don't scroll on YouTube shorts yet. I find if I search for something like let's say I'm looking up a car, it's nice to get a 60 second explanation of it if I don't have time to like watch a review. But I'm not like sitting there scrolling. Yeah, it still serves. Clearly a lot of people are. I like them but I rarely scroll through through. Whereas on Instagram I will scroll the feed of reels. Yeah, staying in the content world. Kalshe shared that just in YouTube generated over 60 billion last year. More than Netflix and Polymath says YouTube is beating Netflix with this really sneaky content strategy in which their creators make stuff people want to see and are then rewarded for it with views and money. And it is a simple encapsulation of the YouTube. Netflix hates this one simple trick. UGC UGC is a big, big business. Who would have thought? But yeah, the scale of the quality. I'm hoping we're going to talk to Mr. Beast about his outlook on YouTube and how it's changing soon because he's taking it in such an incredible direction where the content is Netflix quality. I mean, he sells it to Amazon Prime. Right. So he's certainly there in. The antitrust division of the Department of Justice posted an update today. The DOJ antitrust division filed notice that it will cross appeal from the remedies decision in its case against Google's unlawful monopolization of Internet search and search advertising. So they're still hashing that out. Let me tell you about Label Box. Reinforcement learning environments, voice robotics, evals and expert human data. Label Box is the data factory behind the world's leading AI teams. So Big Tech is throwing cash into India in its quest for AI supremacy. We talked about this story a little bit yesterday. We couldn't get to the bottom of the wall. Yeah, Bloomberg, Yeah, Bloomberg had a story that it's about the facts. Yeah, effectively Google's scaling square footage in India pretty dramatically. Yes. And the question was, you know, why are they scaling it up at all? They're investing so much in capex and servers and digital workers, but of course they need humans as well. So American tech behemoths are racing to establish leadership in artificial intelligence, not just in the US but also around the world. India is welcoming them with open arms, says the Wall Street Journal. India is becoming one of the hottest markets globally for AI. For US AI titans looking to cater to the country's massive and digitally savvy population. Looking to attract more tech investments, the Indian government announced plans over the weekend to give tech firms a 20 year tax break on overseas revenue gleaned from global data services based in India. So you go and you set up a data center or you set up a business, a tech business. You're making money off of that whole data center or whatever you're selling in terms of software. And you don't have to pay taxes to India for 20 years. That's a long, long time. Techno Cheap called this out yesterday. Yeah, the move is part of the Indians of the Indian government's push to make the country a major provider of AI services, including low cost tools to solve local problems, while leaving cutting edge innovation to deep pocketed firms in the US and China. This will give India the opportunity to become a major AI hub, said India's technology minister. In the past few months, US tech companies have unveiled tens of Billions of dollars in investment in Indian data centers as as they race to build AI infrastructure around the world. In October, Google announced a $15 billion investment in data centers in southeastern India as well as undersea cable links in what the company described as its largest single AI hub outside the United States. In December, Microsoft unveiled its largest ever investment in Asia with a $17.5 billion pledge to develop the country's cloud and AI infrastructure. Amazon also pledged 35 billion across the its operations in India up until 2030. The US's big the big US data center firms, known as hyperscalers, are drawn to a country whose 1.4 billion consumers are some of the most prolific users of data and AI chatbots. Very interesting. Anyway, there's more news from Nvidia in the information Nvidia is delaying a new gaming chip due to memory shortage. This is the line you don't want to cross. The gamers are going to rise up and they're going to storm the data centers and they will be putting the screws. They will get their chips one way or another. They will. They'll be calling their representatives, calling their senators. Pause. AI has a new cohort if you don't give me a new gaming graphics card to play the latest games. Yeah. So it's the first time in 30 years it won't release one in the calendar year. Yeah, every year it's over 10, 80 ti 20, 80, 3080. These were great graphics cards. And now no longer just delaying it. I mean, I guess you can use cloud gaming or something. But also it does feel like a lot of video games have sort of maxed out what they can do with stock graphics cards. And so there isn't as much as much need to upgrade every year. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, also with Genie 3, it's like we're getting new advancements in gaming. Yes, yes, yes. So they should be happy about this. You'll own nothing and be happy. How much Genie 3 did you play yesterday, Tyler? It's fun, right? It's fun. So you play it? I thought about playing it. Oh, okay. You thought about playing it, but the mechanics weren't there. Right. Genie 4, I'm going to beat Dae. That's the goalpost currently. I want mechanics, I want tires changes, gas refill as I'm driving the Nurburgring in my Genie 3 car simulator. Race simulator. Anyway, memory chips are a key component of GPUs. Very excited to ask Sam Altman about the various pieces of the AI bottleneck. Since we should ask him about world models too. That would be interesting. Sora, he's not one to not launch. Yeah, he's launched a lot of stuff. And yeah, Ben Thompson has had this take for a while. That AI generated video is the metaverse and that's what you're seeing with Meta vibes. That's what you're seeing with Sora. This is sort of where things go Nvidia is also slashing production of its current line of gaming chips, the GeForce RTX 50 GPUs, because of the memory shortage. One of the people said prices of Nvidia's latest gaming GPUs have already risen at retail stores and websites due to their scarcity over the past year. I wonder how much it costs to actually build a modern gaming PC these days because it's been a while. It used to be like a few thousand dollars would get you sort of like a top tier setup and I wonder, I wonder how what it's looking like now with all the shortages. It's possible to be sure that Nvidia executives could still change their mind and release a gaming chip if the market improves. As the company is known for being flexible and moving quickly. Says the the information demand for computer memory chips has skyrocketed due to the AI boom, as they are needed in large quantities to train and operate machine learning models. Memory chips act as warehouses for storing data. The memory chip shortage is expected to lead to higher prices in consumer electronics. Last week, Apple CEO Tim Cook said the rising prices of memory chips would have an impact on the company's March quarter margins. He's also saying that he's having trouble getting line time at TSU to some extent and so there's a lot of bottlenecks that are working their way through all the technology markets. He hinted that the impact would be greater in the future, noting, we do continue to see market pricing for memory increasing significantly. As always, we'll look at a range of options to deal with that. Gaming and AI chips use different types.

So you can just say the category is bad, and everyone assumes you're talking about you know who. So I thought that was an interesting thing. Trey says Sam Altman, the Koenigsegg collector. Yes, yes, yes, that one. Yes. Deep down. Anyway, so everybody had a take on this yesterday. It was perfect in how much kind of controversy it generated. It was wildly entertaining. I wanted to kind of. I'll read through kind of like my updated take. I got a little bit of processed. Yeah, I got a little bit of pushback. I said they were playing dirty. Signal responded to me and said, not dirty at all. So I wanted to address that. Okay, dig in. But first, let me tell you about console consul builds AI agents that automate 70% of it. HR finance support giving employees instant resolution for access requests. Anyway, so, yeah, I was processing this more. We obviously watched some ads yesterday. We watched the Get a Mac campaign. We watched the Bud Light special Delivery one, which is about Bud Light is in a castle. They get an order of corn syrup. They're like, we don't use corn syrup. That must be for Coors Light and other competitors. And so I was processing them. And the difference there is that those advertisements are truthful, Right. People that have had a PC have probably gotten a virus. So when Mac is riffing on that, it's truthful, right? Yeah. And they had some data to back it up. It's not deceitful. I would say if I'm putting on my mic stand Microsoft in 2007 hat or 2003, I would say, hey, we do have Windows PC Defender. We're fighting viruses. And is it possible to get a virus on a Mac? Probably. Is it possible to not get a virus on a PC? Yeah. And on Microsoft side, people are like, yeah, no one makes Microsoft or no one makes viruses for your computers because you don't sell very many. It's not very ROI positive. That's a good point. Anyways, and then Bud Light's campaign was, like, truthful, even though it was aggressive in that you could look up the ingredient list of their competitors and see that they did, in fact, use corn syrup. And you can make your own decision on whether or not you like that ingredient, but they were just drawing awareness. And so. And so my point is that I think that anthropic sides are like, closer to political attack ads and that they're sort of intentionally taking, kind of trying to be deceptive. Right. They haven't broken any laws. Yeah, no, no, they don't name ChatGPT. They're just sort of like throwing mud at the whole category. I asked. Yeah, so anyways, I said they were playing dirty. I got some pushback on it. I asked Claude, I said, claude, how would you define playing dirty? And Claude said, playing dirty generally means achieving your goals through tactics that are deceptive, unethical, or that violate the understood rules and norms of a given context. Even if you're not technically illegal, it's the gap between what you can do and what you should do. A few dimensions to it. It goes into deception. Misleading others about your intentions, hiding information, or creating false impressions to gain an advantage. These campaigns do an amazing job creating a false perception or impression of what ads in LLMs are going to be like. I do think the response, just to chime in some random stuff, but I think the response to the ads we were wondering outside of the tvpn, we love ads. Ads are fine and they're not going to do anything weird. We're strong supporters. What will the public's reception be like? Will Claude skyrocket to the top of the charts because these ads are so effective? Will general consumers buy the line that yes, the chat apps are gonna get weird with the ads or not? And I was scrolling on Instagram reels last night completely randomly. I was not looking for anthropic content. I think I followed the Claude account. Maybe, maybe not. It just targeted me. It hits me with a vertical version of the ad. It's called Deception. I think something like that. No, violation. Violation is the one that's not called Deception. It'd be a little too on the nose. I think there is one called Deception. There's a bunch. They all have different names. Anyway, it's called Violation and there's a screen grab here. Oh yeah, yeah, I remember. So people were like, the anthropic Deception ad is deceptive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Violation pops up and it's this and It's a Claude AI and it has almost 6,000 likes. Even when it just got served to me, my interpretation was like, this is working. This is popular. It's not just beautifully shot, it's well edited for vertical. Yeah, it's either really resonating or they're putting a massive amount of spend behind it or both. This is what it looked like vertically. And then this is the funny thing. So in this ad you see the guy struggling to do a pull up. He asks what's supposed to be an LLM? Create a fitness plan for me. And then the fitness bot says, hey, you know what else could help? 1 inch insoles from Height max or something like that. And it's like this looks max. I think it's very funny. But it's a 1 inch insert that would go in your shoes. I scroll up, what's the next ad that Meta serves me? An ad for three inch inserts. Three inch inserts. And the ad is actually deceptive. It says, it says the guy can go from 5, 9 to 6 1. That's 4 inches. And so these are full shoes that have the inserts built in. And for some reason I got in. Even though I'm not in the market for insoles, the algorithm just knows that I love these ads cause they're very funny and they're very on trend with the looksmaxing thing. And so I get served these ads constantly. This is all Meta shows me is these height enhancing shoes. Cause I think I actually clicked on them and was like digging in. So you, you bought them, right? Of course, of course. You're trying to get to seven feet. You're trying to get to seven feet. That would be, that would be good. That would be good. Tyler, do you have something on this? Yeah, I was just gonna say. So I saw on Instagram as well, I saw some of the cloud ads and in the comments, I mean, people were riding with Claude. They are, yeah. It was like normies. Yeah, no, totally, totally. Yeah. They're winning the vibe war. They've been winning the vibe war with developers and they've been winning the vibe on X and now it feels like they're about to win the vibe war in the public square really quickly. Let me tell you about figma. Figma Makes isn't your average vibe coding tool. It lives in figma. So outputs look good, feel real and stay connected to how teams build, create code back prototypes and apps fast. Sorry I said two things can be true about the campaign. It's brilliant, well timed and incredibly strategic for a few reasons. I'll outline below. And it's designed to plant a false impression of ChatGPT's forthcoming ad product in the minds of hundreds of millions of Americans. Yep. They could argue, oh, we're not trying to do that. But you can't really kind of argue with the effect. So Anthropic accomplishes a lot. The campaign entertains America. Right? It's wildly entertaining. It's hilarious. Truly like the, the perfect like sycophancy that you can hear. You can hear the EM dashes, the pauses. It's amazing. Really good. Mother. Mother is the name of the agency that they crushed it. They're also putting themselves on the map ahead of the ipo. I think in some ways, like certain audiences would know more about Anthropic than Claude. Right? Yeah. Even if you're just like generally interested in investing in AI, you're probably hearing about Anthropic more than you're hearing about Claude. It builds their aura with insiders. I said if they spend $100 million on this campaign and all it does is help retain a couple of truly elite researchers, it's worth it. What are you laughing at? I love it. Noah saying Anthropic is campaigning to get themselves banned just like with misinformation just going way too far and it backlashes. That's just funny to me. We can go back to that. It's somewhat continues. They're like fear based messaging that they've been kind of riding with in general. Back at the essays effectively rage baits OpenAI they got fully baited completely. Sam switched out of his lowercase typing and was like I gotta go into uppercase for this one. Lots of responses increases like the public's general scrutiny of the ads rollout and then Washington too is another factor. Maybe. Yeah. I just think it'll come up. I mean you have to ask Mark Zuckerberg, how do you make money? Like anything's on the table these days. Yeah. And then the other thing is it's going to broadly damage consumer trust in LLMs. Some people will just be like, wait, like they've been kind of like making money on me without me knowing. Right. Or how can I. Can I trust every output as like actually good advice or am I being monetized? So yeah. And this is the one that you think could come back to bite them. The other five are pretty good potentially. Right. But it depends what their consumer strategy is. Right now they're saying we don't care about consumer. Yeah, they've said that a lot. But their actions kind of speak differently in some ways. I said Anthropic has consistently told the market they don't care about consumer but I'm not sure. The argument for ads is that they'll make LLMs free for people that can't afford to pay a subscription. But Anthropic has already lost the race to serve billions of people. Right. I don't think that they're. When you look at Gemini's sort of traction, OpenAI's ChatGPT traction, it seems like the race to get to 3 billion monthly actives is kind of over. I don't believe that. I don't believe that Claude's going to come behind and get there. And they wouldn't be able to do that without doing ads. Right, because there's like, you can kind. Of run the blue shell. They gotta take out the guy in front. So the question that kind of where I was taking this is can they. Can they deliver a luxury product to a smaller cohort in the hundreds of millions to kind of iPhone numbers? Right. There's like roughly like one and a half billion iPhones that are like active in the world. Those people could all buy a cheaper Android and just cheaper devices, but they've paid a premium for the iPhone because they can. And for many people, it delivers a better experience. So I said the iPhone was not the first smartphone. Claude was not the first consumer LLM. The iPhone did differentiate on specs early, not unlike a model card. But Apple did eventually pivot to more emotional arguments for why you should be seen with an iPhone. It tells people you care about the environment, that you don't have adult apps flooding your app store, and that you take privacy seriously. These have had varying levels of success. Every tech company was able to tell an ESG story. And I can't imagine an Apple exec even saying the word porn today, even though Steve Jobs was very pointed about it back in 2010. He said, you know, there's a porn store for Android. You can download porn, your kids can download porn. That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not going to go there. Calling out the competition by name and dropping that is like. Yeah. And the key thing here is that it was factual, it was true. Like, it wasn't deceptive. No, no. And so I don't think. I don't think that was. That was edgy, but he wasn't playing dirty. Yeah, yeah. And so Apple did, however, carve out a solid messaging strategy around privacy and allowed them to put the screws to advertisers. The market adjusted and the ad industry obviously survived. But average Americans still feel that Facebook is listening to their conversations to target ads. Consumers deserve choice. It's great if they want to pay for ad free tiers. Most don't.1% in Europe for Facebook, by the way. That's the stat. They all have the option to pay for Facebook for ad. Free Facebook and only 1% pay. So consumers deserve choice. But they should not be misled about how ad platforms work. Android has generated an immense amount of value for the world. So has Google, broadly. Let consumers choose, but let them choose intelligently. Yes, I have a rebuttal But I'm going to tell you about Lambda Lambda is the super intelligence cloud building AI, supercomputers for training and inference at scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. So my rebuttal, man, my steel, man, is that. And to be clear, I'm not saying anthropic shouldn't have done this. Oh, yeah. I'm just saying that it was a little dirty. Yeah, they're rolling around in the mud. It's good. They're in the trough. We love the trough. We live in the trough. We live for the trough. My steel, man, is that they didn't cross the line. They didn't play dirty because they didn't call out CHAP GPT directly. Okay, you can take that, whatever you want. But will, the other thing is. They're punching. They are punching up. They are punching up. Yes. But third, there is a world where something like this will happen. There is a world where the ads do get integrated in such a seamless way. If you look at the evolution of Google's 10 blue links, it started with 10 blue links, no ads. Then it was a very clear yellow box with ad, and it was very clear that it was an ad. And over time, the UI evolved to be a lot less aggressive about telling you that it's an ad. And the ads on meta platforms do get creepy sometimes. You talk about something and then you see the ad, and maybe that's just confirmation bias or some sort of cognitive. You only notice the ones that are weird, so they all feel weird. You see a lot of stuff that you weren't talking about that doesn't trigger anything. But when you see the thing that you were just talking to your friend about, I was just talking to you about sweaters. And I see an ad for sweater, I'm like, how did it know? And realistically, it knows because you just went on Facebook, you found that sweater, you bought it. It knows that we're friends. We're DMing, we're talking. We're literally friends on the platform. And so it's like, well, if Jordi likes this and they're hanging out all the time sending each other DMs, why don't I just show John what I just sold to Jordy? That makes perfect sense. That's something that can be done with just stock vanilla machine learning, Core AI inside Facebook and meta. And they do that very effectively. But it can feel sort of creepy sometimes. And some people get creeped out by it and they talk about it. And so the idea that an interaction like that might Happen is not complete science fiction. It is possible. And so they are sort of warning that, hey, if you want to make sure that this never happens, it's our pledge that that's not even on the table. Now. The big question is, when? Xanthropic launching ads. We gotta get them to launch ads. Well, I don't think they can now. No, they have to. It's okay. I give them permission. I will say, everyone's gonna be dunking. Oh, you went back on your promise. No, I will be your strongest soldier. I will be your strongest soldier, and I will say it's the right thing to do. Put ads in Claude code. Put ads in Claude. Put ads in the comments of the code that you write. So if someone reviews the code, they're seeing an ad. That's what I want. That's the future I want to live for. Anyway. Turbo Puffer, serverless vector and full text search built from first principles and object storage. Fast 10x cheaper and extremely scalable. Oh, and you know, I got to tell you more about ads vibe, where D2C brands, B2B startups, and AI companies advertise on streaming TV, pick channels, target audiences, and measure sales, just like on Meta. We love ads here and we love doing ads for ads. Zach Kukoff says, every time I see Anthropic and OpenAI try to distinguish themselves with comms marketing, I realize how much we are replaying the PC wars from the 90s. Anthropic, tasteful, elegant, opinionated, prosumer, expert enterprise. OpenAI, populist, broadly appealing, low consumer, low consumer. Plus typical enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. So Anthropic is The Apple and OpenAI is the Microsoft. And they're also aligned with Microsoft. Owned in part by Microsoft. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it would be. It would be interesting to hear Dario just talk for an hour. Purely about just the risks of advertising and AI. Yeah, right, because that would be powerful. Certainly wouldn't have been as effective as dragging OpenAI in front of hundreds of millions of people. Yeah, but I mean, doesn't Anthropic have a podcast? Anthropic podcast. I think they do. TJ was helping Sam with some comms. Anthropic might think more serious. He said fix it for you. Anthropic might think more seriously about adding ads if they had any concerns. Consumers using their product, just taking a very tactful response to a situation. Just being like, what if you amped it up, brother? Yeah, I mean, you've already lost. If you're just dropping a massive word salad. Maybe I don't know. I think there's a lot of nuance here and it's good. I do think it's important to not maul, to not be angry and made mad. And don't let people spike your cortisol. Exactly. They're going to be gesture maxing at the super bowl and you can't let it affect you. You gotta focus on the new models which have launched today. There's a bunch of new stuff. So GPT 5.3, Codex launched today and there's a very, very cool. There's a very, very cool update to or new product Frontier, which is a product for building AI coworkers that I'm very excited to talk to Sam about because it feels like the first glimpse of an orchestration product which we talked about yesterday. Gastown has been taking off. I mean, let's give some credit. By the skin of my teeth. No, it might seem like John had early insight on today's OpenAI launch. We did not. We didn't. No, we actually didn't. But in hindsight, you called it perfectly crystal ball. Crystal Ball Elite. Alpha. One day of alpha, One day of alpha. Yeah. If you had launched a enterprise focused orchestration platform yesterday. Yes. You could have raised money, got sold. Secondary right before OpenAI immediately launched a very. Are you going to get steeper from OpenAI? They're not even thinking about this. They launch it the next day. Who knows? Who knows? Anyway, let's move on to Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that lets you grow, that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces, and now with AI agents. Matt Turk says regular startup. We closed a few customers and shipped some new features. Good week so far. Anthropic. We destroyed our main rival with our super bowl ads and tanked the entire software category in public markets by announcing some plugins. Good week so far. Oh, yeah. We barely even talked about this, but Anthropic launched a lawyer in your pocket. They launched a legal tool or they announced it, I don't know. Is it actually available in the app yet? Because this, this, it feels like, okay, maybe this competes with Harvey. I'm not seeing it yet in the cloud app, but I don't really think. It competes with Harvey. No, no, no. So I don't think it does because they're selling it direct to consumer, I believe at least. But it seems like an amazing product. Like, it seems like the demand for this would be incredible because so many. People will compete with LegalZoom like LegalZoom is down 15% since this announcement. Sure, sure, sure. It's now $1.38 billion company. Yeah. Sort of in Chegg mode. Yeah. And not just for. I mean LegalZoom's a little bit different because you can actually file you incorporation documents and they've been. They face pressure from Stripe Atlas for a long time on. Yeah. And a bunch of other LLCs and whatnot. But I mean truly, like if you're getting a job and your employer gives you an offer letter, like taking that to a lawyer can be really expensive. If it's your first job, you're probably not going to review it. A lot of people are probably just copy, pasting it into or asking their. Parents take a look at this, a. Little bit of that and then they can't. But just being able to just forward the email in or integrate your Gmail and just say, hey, I got this offer letter. Like does anything in here look weird? Is there anything I should ask about? I don't have a ton of leverage, but I want to understand this document. Claude should be able to do that and it makes a lot of sense. And I expect OpenAI to launch this product like ASAP anyway. Yeah, I mean, so I think all that was actually launched for the Claude Legal thing was just a plugin in Claude Cowork, which means it's basically just like MD files, right? Yeah, it's like skills. It's. But it feels like it goes beyond skills because they probably had to do some legal work of their own to make sure that they're like not giving legal advice and that they're couching things properly. I think that's also why ChatGPT Health isn't a different area because they don't want any risk of like pre training on your testosterone levels. And then I go into the next version of ChatGPT and I say, what are Tyler Cosgrove's testosterone levels? And it just knows it because it learned it from the chats that you were sending it. There's a whole bunch of private information beyond testosterone levels, of course. Anyway, Railway. Railway is the all in one intelligent cloud provider. Use your favorite agents to deploy web apps, servers, databases and more, while Railway takes care of scaling, monitoring and security automatically. Key over on X said, TBH the anthropic ads are good, but I think they're a bad idea. Normies are not going to think, wow, this is what ChatGPT is going to be like. I better subscribe to Claude.com they're going to think, wow, this is what AI is going to be like. Rune agrees. He's not biased at all. He says, suicide bombing strategy. It's bad for them, but worse for OpenAI. You almost have to respect it. What was the text I sent you? Quote, I don't know how to get on Anthropic? Yeah. John was asking a friend that's outside of tech, and they were like, what's anthropic? How do I get on it? I don't know how. Yeah. Let's go to Eric Seufrid. He said, this Anthropic ad is simply obnoxious. And then we'll move on to other stories. Anthropic generates most of its revenue from enterprise business, so it can afford to maximize its consumer revenue opportunity. But the sanctimonious moralizing here presents advertising as a cynical business model choice. It's neither cynical nor a choice. The freemium digital advertising supported model is the only repeatedly proven pathway for a consumer technology product to reach humanity. At scale. There are just folks who can't pay $20 a month. OpenAI's advertising revenue will enable it to offer access to larger models for free tier users. To the extent Anthropic thinks chatbots powered by frontier models are valuable to society, it should aspire to provide access to as many people as possible. Now they'd probably say, hey, we're freemium. We do give access to chatbots powered by frontier models to free users. They just only get a certain amount and then they have to upgrade. But Eric's point still holds here. For sure. Ads allow for that to an extent that no other consumer technology business model demonstrably can. This kind of condescending attitude toward digital advertising is economic chauvinism, and it represents a desire for technological gatekeeping. And the idea that ads will necessarily influence chatbot content is overstated, borderline anachronistic. Anachronistic, because you don't do it that way anymore. You wait until, hey, this person's buying, you know, insoles or lifts, and they're asking about the Roman Empire. And this is the perfect time because they're just chilling, reading the Roman Empire, and they're thinking, oh, okay, yeah, I did need to buy that. And then they switch gears like, you don't need to put the ad right next to the content that relates to it. That's just. That's just an antiquated way of thinking about online advertising. Yeah, it ignores functionally. Again, I think Sam Altman did say in October of 2024. I kind of think of ads as a last resort for us as a business model. Yep. So, again, he's going to, you know, has to eat his words on this one. They get to take a little bit of a victory lap there. Yeah. So in that sense, criticism is fair. Anyway, before we move on CrowdStrike, your business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches this. So Claude also announced a new model from Anthropic, of course. Introducing Claude, Opus 4.6. We have Sholto coming on the show at 12:30 to discuss that. They say it's the smartest model and it got an upgrade. Opus 4.6 plans more carefully, sustains agentic tasks for longer.

On here, when you're in. When you're not in first place, you get the blue shell. You can take a shot at the leader without even needing to call them out. So you can just say the category is bad, and everyone assumes you're talking about you know who. So I thought that was an interesting thing. Trey says Sam Altman, the Koenigsegg collector. Yes, yes, yes, that one. Yes. Deep dive. Anyway, so everybody had a take on this yesterday. It was perfect in how much kind of controversy it generated. It was wildly entertaining. I wanted to kind of. I'll read through, kind of like my updated take. I got a little bit of process. Yeah. I got a little bit of pushback. I said they were playing dirty. Signal responded to me and said, not dirty at all. So I wanted to address that. Okay, dig in. But first, let me tell you about console consul builds AI agents that automate 70% of it. HR finance support giving employees instant resolution for access request. Anyway, so, yeah, I was processing this more. We obviously watched some ads yesterday. We watched the Get a Mac campaign. We watched the Bud light Special Delivery 1, which is about Bud Light is in a castle. They get an order of corn syrup. They're like, we don't use corn syrup. That must be for Coors Light and other competitors. And so I was processing them. And the difference there is that those advertisements are truthful. Right? Right. Like, people that have had a PC have probably gotten a virus. Right. So when Mac is, like, riffing on that, it's like, it's truthful, Right? Yeah. And they had some data to back it up. It's not deceitful. I would say if I'm putting on my steel manning Microsoft in 2007 hat or 2003, I would say, hey, we do have Windows PC Defender. We're fighting viruses. And is it possible to get a virus on a Mac? Probably. Is it. Is it possible to not get a virus on a PC? Yeah. And on Microsoft's side, people are like, yeah, no one makes Microsoft or no one makes viruses for your computers because you don't sell very many. It's not very ROI positive. That's a good point. Anyways, and then Bud Light's campaign was like, truthful, even though it was aggressive in that you could look up the ingredient list of their competitors and see that they did, in fact, use corn syrup. And you can make your own decision on whether or not you like that ingredient. But they were just trying to drawing awareness. And so. And so my point is that I think that anthropic SADs are like closer to political attack ads and that they're sort of intentionally taking, kind of trying to be deceptive. Right. They haven't broken any laws. They don't name ChatGPT. They're just sort of like throwing mud at the whole category. I asked, yeah, so anyways, I said they were playing dirty. I got some pushback on it. I asked Claude, I said, Claude, how would you define playing dirty? And Claude said playing dirty generally means achieving your goals through tactics that are deceptive, unethical or that violate the understood rules and norms of a given context. Even if you're not technically illegal, it's the gap between what you can do and what you should do. A few dimensions to it. It goes into deception. Misleading others about your intentions, hiding information or creating false impressions to gain an advantage. These campaigns do an amazing job creating a false perception or impression of. Of what ads in alums are going to be like. I do think the response, just to chime in some random stuff, but I think the response to the ads we were wondering like, you know, outside of the, you know, the tvpn, we love ads. Ads are fine and they're not going to do anything weird. We're, we're strong supporters. What will the public's reception be like? Claude, skyrocket to the top of the charts because these ads are so effective. Will general consumers buy the line that yes, the chat apps are gonna get weird with the ads or not? And I was scrolling on Instagram reels last night completely randomly. I was not looking for anthropic content. I think I followed the Claude account. Maybe, maybe not. It just targeted me. It hits me with a vertical version of the ad. It's called Deception. I think something like that. No, Violation. Violation is the one that I. It's not called decept. Be a little too on the nose. I think there is one called Deception. There's a bunch, they all have different names. Anyway, it's called Violation and there's a screen grab here. Oh yeah, yeah, I remember. So people were like, the anthropic Deception ad is deceptive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Violation pops up and it's this and it's this Claude AI and it has almost 6,000 likes. Even when it just got served to me, my interpretation was like, this is working. This is popular. This is. It's not just beautifully shot, it's well edited for vertical. Yeah, it's either really resonating or they're putting a massive amount of spend behind it. Or both to be getting. This is what it looked like vertically. And then this is the funny thing. So in this ad you see the guy struggling to do a pull up. He asks, you know what's supposed to be an LLM, Create a fitness plan for me. And then the fitness bot says, hey, you know what else could help? 1 inch insoles from height max or something like that. And it's like this looks max and it's very funny. But. But it's a 1 inch insert that would go in your shoes. I scroll up, what's the next ad that Meta serves me? An ad for a three inch insert. Three inch inserts. And the ad is actually deceptive. It says the guy can go from 5, 9 to 6 1. That's 4 inches. And so these are full shoes that have the inserts built in. And for some reason I got in even though I'm not in the market for insoles. The algorithm just knows that I love these ads because they're very funny and they're very on trend with the looks Max thing. And so I get served these ads constantly. This is all Meta shows me is, is these, is these height enhancing shoes. Because I think I actually clicked on them and was like digging in. So you, you bought them, right? Of course, of course. To send my energy. You're trying to get seven feet. You're trying to get to seven feet. That would be. That would be good. That would be good. Tyler, do you have something on this? Yeah, I was just gonna say. So I saw on Instagram as well, I saw some of the cloud ads and in the comments, I mean, people were riding with clot. They are, yeah. It was like normies. Yeah, no, totally, totally. Yeah. Like they're winning the vibe war. They've been winning the vibe war with developers and they've been winning the vibe war on X and now it feels like they're about to win the vibe war in the public, in the public square. Really quickly. Let me tell you about Figma. Figma makes isn't your average vibe coding tool. It lives in Figma so outputs look good, feel real and stay connected to how teams build, create code back prototypes and apps fast. Sorry I said two things can be true about the campaign. It's brilliant, well timed and incredibly strategic for a few reasons. I'll outline below. And it's designed to plant a false impression of ChatGPT's forthcoming ad product in the minds of hundreds of millions of Americans. They could argue, oh, we're not trying to do that. But you can't really kind of argue with the Effect. So Anthropic accomplishes a lot. The campaign entertains America. Right. It's wildly entertaining. It's hilarious. Truly. Like the perfect sycophancy that you can hear. You can hear the em dashes, the pauses. It's amazing. Really good. Mother. Mother is the name of the agency that did it. They crushed it. They're also putting themselves on the map ahead of the ipo. I think in some ways certain audiences would know more about Anthropic than Claude. Even if you're just generally interested in investing in AI, you're probably hearing about Anthropic more than you're hearing about Claude. It builds their aura with insiders. I said if they spend $100 million on this campaign and all it does is help retain a couple of truly elite researchers, it's worth it. What are you laughing at? I love it. Noah's saying Anthropic is campaigning to get themselves banned. Just like with misinformation just going way too far and it backlashes. That's just funny to me. We can go back to it somewhat. Continues their like fear based messaging that they've been. They've been kind of riding with in general. Yeah, yeah. Back at the essays. More nuanced safety effectively rage baits. OpenAI. They got fully baited completely. Sam switched out of his like, you know, lowercase typing and was like, I gotta go into uppercase for this one. Lots of responses increases like the public's general scrutiny of the ads rollout and then Washington too, is another factor. Maybe. Yeah. I just think it'll come up. I mean, you have to ask Mark Zuckerberg, how do you make money? Like anything's on the table these days. Yeah. And then the other thing is it's going to broadly damage consumer trust in LLMs. Some people will just be like, wait, like they're. They've been kind of like making money on me without me knowing. Right. Or how can I. Can I trust every output as. As like actually good advice or am I being monetized? So, yeah. And this is the one that you think could come back to bite them. The other five are pretty good potential potentially. Right. But it depends what their consumer strategy is. Right now they're saying we don't care about consumer. Yeah, they've said that a lot. But their actions kind of speak differently in some ways. Yeah. I said Anthropic has consistently told the market they don't care about consumer. But I'm not sure the argument for ads is that they'll make LLMs free for people that can't afford to pay a subscription. But Anthropic has already lost the race to serve billions of people. Right. I don't think that they're. When you look at Gemini's sort of traction, OpenAI's ChatGPT traction, it seems like the race to get to 3 billion monthly actives is kind of over. I don't believe that. I don't believe that Claude's going to come behind and get there. And they wouldn't be able to do that without doing ads, Right? Because there's like, you can kind of. Run the numbers in the blue shell. They got to take out the guy in front. So the question that kind of where I was taking this is can they. Can they deliver a luxury product to a smaller cohort in the hundreds of millions to kind of iPhone numbers? Right. There's like, roughly like one and a half billion iPhones that are, like, active in the world. Those people could all buy a cheaper Android and just cheaper devices, but they've paid a premium for the iPhone because they can. And for many people, it delivers a better experience. So I said the iPhone was not the first smartphone. Claude was not the first consumer LLM. The iPhone did differentiate on specs early, not unlike a model card. But Apple did eventually pivot to more emotional arguments for why you should be seen with an iPhone. It tells people you care about the environment, that you don't have adult apps flooding your app store, and that you take privacy seriously. These have had varying levels of success. Every tech company was able to tell an ESG story, and I can't imagine an Apple exec even saying the word porn today. Even though Steve Jobs was very pointed about it back in 2010. He said, you know, there's a porn store for Android. You can download porn. Your kids can download porn. That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not going to go there. Calling out the competition by name and dropping that is like. Yeah. And the key thing here is that it was factual, it was true. It was like. It wasn't deceptive. No, no. And so I don't think. I don't think that was. That was edgy, but he wasn't playing dirty. Yeah. Yeah. And so Apple did, however, carve out a solid messaging strategy around privacy and allowed them to put the screws to advertisers. The market adjusted, and the ad industry obviously survived. But average Americans still feel that Facebook is listening to their conversations to target ads. Consumers deserve choice. It's great if they want to for ad free tiers. Most don't.1% in Europe for Facebook, by the way. That's the stat. They all have the option to pay. For Facebook for ad free Facebook and only 1%. So consumers deserve choice, but they should not be misled about how ad platforms work. Android has generated an immense amount of value for the world. So as Google broadly, let consumers choose, but let them choose intelligently. Yes, I have a rebuttal, but I'm going to tell you about Lambda Lambda is the super intelligence, cloud building, AI superfoods for training and inference at scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. So my rebuttal, my steel, man, is. That, and to be clear, I'm not saying anthropic shouldn't have done this. Oh, yeah. I'm just saying that it was a little dirty. Yeah, they're rolling around in the mud. It's good. They're in the trough. We love the trough. We live in the trough. We live for the trough. My steel, man, is that they didn't cross the line. They didn't play dirty because they didn't call out ChatGPT directly. Okay, you can take that, whatever you want. But will, the other thing is, they're punching. They are punching up. They are punching up. Yes. But third, there is a world where something like this will happen. There is a world where the ads do get integrated in such a seamless way. If you look at the evolution of Google's 10 blue links, it started with 10 blue links, no ads. Then it was a very clear yellow box with ad, and it was very clear that it was an ad. And over time, the UI evolved to be a lot less aggressive about telling you that it's an ad. And the ads on meta platforms do get creepy sometimes. You talk about something and then you see the ad. And maybe that's just confirmation bias or some sort of cognitive. You only notice the ones that are weird, so they all feel weird. You see a lot of stuff that you weren't talking about that doesn't trigger anything. But when you see the thing that you were just talking to your friend about, I was just talking to you about sweaters. And I see an ad for sweater, I'm like, how did it know? And realistically, it knows because you just went on Facebook, you found that sweater, you bought it. It knows that we're friends. We're dming, we're talking. We're literally friends on the platform. And so it's like, well, if Jordi likes this and they're hanging out all the Time sending each other DMs. Why don't I just show John what I just sold to Jordy? That makes perfect sense. That's something that can be done with just stock Vanilla Machine learning, Core AI inside Facebook and Meta, and they do that very effectively. But it can feel sort of creepy sometimes. And some people get creeped out by it and they talk about it. And so the idea that an interaction like that might happen is not complete science fiction. It is possible. And so they are sort of warning that, hey, if you want to make sure that this never happens, it's our pledge that that's not even on the table. Now. The big question is, when? Xanthropic launching ads. We gotta get them to launch ads. Well, I don't think they can now. No, they have to. It's okay. I give them permission. I will say everyone's gonna be dunking. Oh, you went back on your promise. No, I will be your strongest soldier. I will be your strongest soldier and I will say it's the right thing to do. Put ads in Claude code. Put ads in Claude. Put ads in the comments of the code that you write. So if someone reviews the code they're seeing in ad, that's what I want. That's the future I want to live for. Anyway. Turbo Puffer, serverless vector and full text search built from first principles on object storage. Fast 10x cheaper and extremely scalable. Oh, and you know, I got to tell you more about ads. Vibe, where D2C brands, B2B startups and AI companies advertise on streaming TV, pick channels, target audiences, and measure sales. Just like on Meta. We love ads here and we love doing ads for ads. Zach Kukoff says, every time I see Anthropic and OpenAI try to distinguish themselves with comms marketing, I realize how much we are replaying the PC wars from the 90s. Anthropic, tasteful, elegant, opinionated, prosumer, expert enterprise. OpenAI. Populist, broadly appealing, low consumer, low consumer, plus typical enterprise. Yeah, yeah. So Anthropic is The Apple and OpenAI is the Microsoft, and they're also aligned with Microsoft or owned in part by Microsoft. Yes. Yeah, I mean, it would be interesting to hear Dario just talk for an hour purely about just the risks of advertising and AI. Yeah, right, because that would be powerful. Certainly wouldn't have been as effective as dragging OpenAI in front of hundreds of millions of people. I mean, doesn't Anthropic have a podcast? Anthropic podcast. I think they do. TJ was helping Sam with some comms. Anthropic might think more serious. He said, fix it for you. Anthropic might think more seriously about adding ads if they had any consumers using the product. Just, just, just taking a very tactful response to a situation. Just being like, what if you amped it up, brother? Yeah. I mean, you've already lost if you're just dropping a mass of words. Salad, maybe. I don't know. I think there's a lot of nuance here and it's good. I do think it's important to not mold, to not be angry and made mad. And don't let people spike your cortisol. Exactly. They're going to be gesture maxing at the super bowl and you can't let it affect you. You got to focus on the new models which have launched today. There's a bunch of new stuff. So GPT 5.3 Codex launched today. And there's a very, very cool, there's a very, very cool update to or new product Frontier, which is a product for building AI co workers that I'm very excited to talk to Sam about because it feels like the first glimpse of an orchestra.