Scale of that operation. Stripe Press just. Well, actually we. We announced in the letter we sold our millionth book. But in fact, since. Incredible. No, look, look, looks. We've actually now sold our 1.1 millionth book, so. For the next GA too. But it's great. We, we love books and they're, they're very. They're very AGI proof. Oh, yeah, no, we've been a huge fan of so much of the Stripe Press catalog. I haven't read them all, but I'm collecting them one at a time and I'm working through them and every time one drops, it's always a moment and we love them. So thank you for everything. Yeah. Great to have you guys on and congratulations to the whole team on Incredible. TVPN is an amazing startup and it's super cool to see you guys grow. And built on Stripe. Built on Stripe. Streaming world. Our sector needs. Incorporated on Stripe. Built on Stripe. Our first ad deal ever was a live read at a live conference. I think we charged $50 and I put. And I sent someone a Stripe link. We're Talking about the 2025 cohort being the fastest ever. Yes. Well, we'll have to have you to our internal Stripe show, so we'll follow. That'd be great. Yeah. We'll talk to you soon. Have a great rest of your day. Congratulations. Thanks, guys. Cheers. Goodbye. Let me tell you about Graphite Code review for the age of graphite. Helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster. And I'm also going to tell you about Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces. And now with AI agents. And without further ado, we have Bill Gurley. He is the author of Running Down a Dream. Bill, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for taking the time on a busy launch day. Congratulations on the launch. You're doing great. Yes. Yeah. How many podcasts are you doing this week? I can't imagine. It's just some number beyond my comprehension. Well, we appreciate you taking the time to come chat with us. Why? Well, before we jump into everything, I got to say, somebody, I think it was a week or so ago, made a fake TVPN graphic. That was pretty silly and I just wanted you. I just wanted you to know it. We didn't make that. That was somebody. Okay. I almost, I almost emailed you about it, but. No, I tried to jump in the parody myself. Yeah, no, you did, but then I was like, wait, does he? I don't know. Well, we did early on when we were a little smaller and a little more free, loose with the jokes. We posted a picture of Bill at a basketball game as a spotted. And you replied and said like, no, the person next to me is like the owner of the team. And the whole joke is like, we know you. We don't know basketball, but we're doing the paparazzi thing. Never heard of him, but we're very excited to have you. Why the book now? What was the. What was the impetus. What was the impetus for actually writing the book? Yeah, look, I. I think, you know, especially for a show like your own, I, you know, I'm known as someone who spent 25 years in venture capital, and the book's not really about that, you know, so I. I developed a side passion project that started about eight years ago on this topic. And it was at a time where I was reading a ton of biographies, and I noticed a through line between three different subjects of things they were doing that I kind of felt most people weren't doing, but could do. And I put it together. I gave it as a presentation at my alma mater, where I got my mba and they put it online. Few people noticed. James Clear noticed. That was one of the things that kind of woke me up to the possibility. And as I began to hang up my boots, adventure, which takes a while, I turned my attention to this, and it was something that meant a lot to me. I could have written a book on vc. I don't know how many humans that could have possibly helped, but a small fraction compared to what I hope this can do. I think the projections are by 2030, there'll be more venture capitalists than people if the trend continues. But it is an interesting point. Maybe I made a mistake. I do feel like this is a book that you can read if you're a venture capitalist, insider, startup founder, and be like, okay, I'm seeing the world from Bill's perspective. That's helpful. But I could also give this to someone who's never heard of you or venture capital capital or knows what a safe note is, and they could get value out of it. And I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the. The translation that's happening right now around AI narratives as they break into the public consciousness. We saw this with that viral X article, Something Big is Happening. I had that forwarded to me by family, friends. I overheard someone in a restaurant talking about it who clearly is not, you know, an investor in an AI lab. They're just some random person and they realize that there's something happening. And I'm wondering, these transitions of communication, that's what's happening in Silicon Valley is going to have an impact and how what you've seen in the past translates to average Americans I haven't seen, you know, if you think of. So first of all, the venture capital community appropriately gets excited about these big tech waves because they lead to disruption and they lead to kind of accelerated new wealth creation around these companies that break out. And that's happened over and over and over in my career. And I don't remember one. I mean if you take the mobile wave or the PC wave or the client server or sas, I don't remember any of those kind of being thrown at the public consciousness this fast. And so I do think, I do think it's different this time from that front alone. That said, you know, we've had pretty high market caps for tech companies for a long time now, starting with desert period. And you're getting to a place where, you know, anytime the market switches from, from half full to half empty and a skeptics mindset, you. We have had those moments like so, so maybe not driven by the wave, but we certainly have those moments. And it's all okay. It will always be okay. I think people freak out. Buffett says he's a net buyer of stocks. If people are intellectual and curious and hungry, they should be sharpening their pencils right now trying to figure out where they want to find entry prices on some of these companies. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean it feels like a lot of the book is about finding a career and I feel like that will resonate specifically with people who are nervous with me because when I was thinking about when John and I first met, we had both built some companies, we both invested in some companies, but we were trying to find our life's work. And it was such a, it's such a pain. Like that period where you're searching, if you're a high agency person, you like doing, doing a lot of things, it can be deeply painful because you're like, I want to be productive, I want to be, I want to be making the number go up, but I don't have a number right now. And if you had asked either of us when we first met, hey, would you ever think about broadcast media? Would you ever think about being in front of a camera? Both of us, you know, John had made some YouTube videos, but it was just for fun. And if, and if a big, you know, if A network like CNBC had said, hey, would you guys consider, you know, hosting a show? He would have been like, yeah, like, like honored. But no way. That never imagined. And then you sort of just. And so as somebody who, like, wants a lot of control over their life and their destiny and. And like, feels like they have historically have had control, that period of just like searching is like. Is. Is painful. And I feel like a lot of the book is. Is helping people through that moment. So in some ways, when I got our copy, I was like, wow, I really wish I had this, you know, two years ago. I'd like to go back to the word, the phrase you used of high agency. I think that one of the problems that is. That has kind of evolved is that our college, our common college pathway has actually become more restrictive. And I think there's less agency. And kids are being encouraged. They have to sign up for a major before they ever go to the college. They get stuck on these pathways, and there's not a lot of exploration. There's not a lot of. Of search for creativity or obsession or the kind of thing that. That really gets you going. And I think the journey you went on is perfectly fine. I think that's another thing which is letting it be okay for people to bounce around and see what they can find, because once they latch on, and we have examples in the book where that doesn't happen till 40. Sometimes it's at 30, sometimes it's. I didn't become a venture capitalist until I was 30, and that was clear dream job. And the first two. Two stops were. Were fine and interesting and building blocks towards that. So. So I think it. I think. I think that is part of the message is to get comfortable with that and give people permission to do that type of exploration. Yeah. Enzo. Enzo Ferrari, Estee Lauder, I think the Red Bull founder too. All were, I think, in their 40s when they started their companies. And so there's this intense pressure in our industry and everywhere to figure out a job and then attach your, you know, make your entire identity that job. And it's so. It's so constrictive. Yeah. Yes. And I circle back to the first question just about this AI stuff that's out there. I think there's this massive paradox where if you are not engaged at work, if you don't love what you do, you know, you go home and you don't try and improve on your own time. AI feels very threatening for high agency people who are kind of on their own custom career path, which I hope this book encourages more and more people to be on. AI is like a superpower. There's like you can learn constantly. Like you can find people who you should be connecting with. You can, you can have it do things for you so that you're operating with the power of more than one person as you move forward. And I, I just think that's quite a, quite an ironic paradox that for people this is the best of times, the best. Like there's never ever in the history of the world been a better time to self learn like it is. It is all out there at your fingertips. It's like magic. But you have, yeah, I think the ability to, to you can, anyone can ask a dumb question at any point all day long and you don't have to be, you don't have to be embarrassed about it. And I think that that is underrated today in terms of how many if like generally, you know, there are no dumb questions and yet people still don't like asking dumb questions to their peers or mentors or whatever. And I feel like that's an underrated of. Yeah, no doubt. What do you think about hyper financialization, young people day trading, meme coins, all of that? It feels like a trap for young people where it can feel like you're learning about AI or learning about technology, but then instead of actually building a product, creating value, you're sort of just trying to shuffle chips around the poker table and ultimately just take risk. Yeah. I mean based on my understanding of day trading in a, in a Wall street context, you know, prior to maybe the crypto world, I don't, I'm, I'm not aware of any signal that suggests that's a durable skill and I think the data points the other way. But, but, but one of my messages is like do what you love, do what you're passionate about. So if that's, if that's the thing that you're going to wake up every day, you know, I, I, I'm, I don't want to, I don't want to be discouraging. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just maybe you'll land or start a fund that it takes it really seriously and creates some, some captured value or, you know, I was probably overly skeptical of, of at least many of messages that were out there, but the, the stablecoin rail seem like a real, real innovation and, and something that has scale and, and I think maybe we're still yet to see some disruption coming down the path. Yeah, I mean we just talked to the Collisons about that. Ken Griffin started as a day trader. He was in college, he was, he was buying convertible debt and he was, you know, looking at like where the convertible debt was mispriced and, and, and made a bunch of money and then grew it into a massive team with a fund and high frequency trading arm and all this stuff. What are you making? I'm just going to say the thing that will differentiate you more in your career than anything else is to be the most hyper curious person that's trying to do this thing. And once again that's put on steroids with these AI tools. But if you are the most curious person that's constantly learning in your field, you will do extremely well. And I, I said it in the book, but I'll say it here. I can't make you the most talented person in your, in your, you know, company or your group or your field, but you have no excuse not to be the most knowledgeable person because the information's all out there. What kind of, what kind of things were you doing to learn about industries and, and companies, you know, in the beginning of your venture career that maybe you'd be using a deep research query to do today? But. Well, the first thing, I mean the first thing is you develop and I think all the great VCs in the valley, you, you develop this hyper FOMO of anything and everything. And one of the way, one of the reasons I know that, that it's time for me to move on is I, I haven't, I haven't put together a clawbout yet, but I know my older self would have done it immediately and, and it's just that kind of thing. You can't sleep on not knowing something, you know, or hearing that there's a company you don't know about. And you develop that as like, as a positive tool to just be hyper paranoid about new companies, new things, new information, new technologies. Is venture capital eating the world? Is venture capital scaling so much that it's eating into other asset classes? We're seeing mega funds. I'm interested to think about what's durable about your approach to investing, what's additional, what's substitutive. How is venture changing? I think from the minute I entered venture to today, venture has gotten nothing but more competitive as an asset class. It's gotten more and more competitive and people get more and more aggressive. We're in a very interesting time where people have grown funds to the size equivalent to the largest PE funds and they're moving money. Especially you just said to collison's on you look at the stripe or the databricks case. They're using those large funds to convince the companies to stay private longer, maybe forever. That's just a very different world than the one that I grew up in. I think they turn around and the people that do those rounds turn around and tell the LPs, their investors, look, if you want exposure to these growth years in these companies, you need to come through us. And so if I were using cynical words, I'd say they hijacked the growth years of these early IPO companies. You know, Amazon went public below a billion in market cap. It's hard to fathom that, you know, today with what we have going on here. And that's. What's the. What's the salute. What's the solution, though? Because there's different. There's different. You know, AngelList has been, you know, available and scaling for a long time now. Robinhood has their new. Yeah, I know, I know. The problem. The problem with getting the retail investor into this crazy world of venture capital is most venture capitalists are well aware that in a fund of 10 investments, seven are going broke and bankrupt. And I don't know that the retail investors got the right frame of mind for that type of activity. I also. There's a reason that public companies have public audits and file these, these financials in the way that they do. And I tell you, when a company gets ready to go public, everyone sharpens their pencils. The auditor, the lawyers, everyone really tightens up. And I think every venture capitalist knows that, that numbers that are in a PowerPoint may or may not be correct, but I don't know that retail investors know that. So I think it could. I think it could be a dangerous world to go down that path you're talking about. Yeah. But ideally, the thing to do would just to make it a lot easier to be public, lower the cost of being public, really scrutinize the cost of DNO insurance and the lawsuits that come to the table, because that makes people not want to be out there on the field. It would require the SEC to stare themselves in the face and say, look, the number of public companies in the US is half of what it used to be. And is that a problem? I think it is. But is that a problem? And what are we going to do to fix it? But there's not an overnight fix. It's going to take. It would take. It would take someone being very determined to make it happen. Do you think that there's a World where the AI backlash is less if the big labs got out earlier. I'm just thinking about the average American can't get allocation in SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI and they're seeing bills go up and they're worried about AI, but they don't have exposure. And if they could at least see that they're somewhat allocated to the home. Yeah, in the same way housing prices going up sucks until you buy a house. The way you describe it sounds more like how a politician would describe it than how I actually think it might play. I don't know that there are that many retail investors out there going, oh, my job's under threat from AI. I wish I could own Anthropic. Well, isn't that part of that, part of why? I mean this sort of fear based fundraising approach that some of the labs have taken where if somebody's telling you your job's going to go away, of course you want to give them as much money as you can as a hedge. Look, there's an interesting irony that if you wanted AI exposure, you're pretty good just owning the index. Nvidia is such a large part of the index. You have exposure to Microsoft and Google and Facebook. Like I don't know that you need to be in that place. And we are now already at a place. I would say, you know, every time there's a new technology wave, people get rich quick. When people get rich quick, speculators come in, charltons, you know, those kind of things. And eventually that leads to a bubble. People are confused when they think, you know, they say, oh, you say it's a bubble, you're anti age. No, the fact that it's real causes the bubble and that's why bulls rush. In the beginning of the gold rush there was really gold there. They were finding it at the end, you know, it got speculative and so it will get speculative. I think it would be really ironic if we, you know, invite retail investors into a Goldman led SPV of open air and drop it right before the reset, which I think would be the most likely thing that would happen. Sure, sure. How, how are you, what are you thinking about around China as of today, February 2026, we have distill gate this week. A lot of people are talking about it, but what's on your mind? Can I ask you a question about that? This is, this is remarkably naive on my part. So these model companies are saying that they're, they're API was hit 16 million times, is that correct? Yeah, something like that. I Don't even know if there's anyone else. How did that happen? Are you not tracking who connects to? Yeah, you set up a whole bunch of different, like front companies or you're reselling access. So if you go to the itunes app store right now, there will be an applause to set up 16 million accounts. Or if you just, you can go to the app store right now and look for like chat AI and it will hit the other APIs, but you're going through an American company, maybe they don't have security. So there's a lot of different ways to exfiltrate data. And then also a lot of data just hits the open web because you go to ChatGPT, you run a deep research report and then you just publish it on your blog or on the Internet. But now they've been able to those things down. You know, I share the skepticism Elon does. And this goes way back to my speech it all in on regulatory capture. I said then and I still believe now the biggest threat to the US let's call it AI hegemony is is the Chinese open source models. And the developers even in the US that are working on their own are using those. And you can see that on all the, on all the, the tables that are out there. And so it is a highly competitive, like just globally competitive reality that in an ecosystem where there's 6 to 10 open source models that can all learn off of each other, that's going to be high, like that's going to be a really incredible primordial soup if you will, for innovation to evolve. And I fear, mainly because I'm well aware that like OpenAI Anthropic is the biggest spender on lobbying whatsoever. I always fear when the these things come out that they're just trying to encourage more of that regulation. And if that happens, I think it could be like if they try and make it illegal to use a model that has any Chinese like ancestry, I think that could end up in a really weird place. And the place to really pay attention to and look out for is who's going to serve the rest of the world. And the Internet era, there was a fence around China and the US companies served the rest of the world. If we get super heavy on US regulation, you may find there's a fence around the US and China serves rest of the world. That's what I'd be worried about. How are you thinking about great power competition more broadly? Like I'm an American bald eagle. I mean as American as they come at the Same time, I feel like I've been worried about a confrontation over Taiwan for years. There's things, there's been trade wars, yes. And things are tense, but nothing's really happened. Is China somehow, like, underrated in your mind? Is the geopolitical risk overstated in some way? Like, what are you seeing that's not consensus? If you've seen some of the stuff I posted, and I think this stuff I'm posting is highly consistent with Elon's point of view. It comes from a place of if you're going to declare that there's this, this relationship that we need to optimize, I think, and, and if your goal is to lower the risk of any, any major glow up, blow up between the two, I think it's imperative to have as much knowledge as possible. And so one of the things that I don't like is when you see people out there spreading rhetoric that's just not consistent with the reality. And so I'm just like, like, let's get eyes wide open first. I also think that there are things we could learn from China about how to run infrastructure in the US they're clearly better at it than we are. And if you just, you know, close your ears and say, oh my God, they're the evil competitor and they cheat all the time, you don't ever get yourself in a position where you're going to learn, you know, from them maybe what they're doing well and what we're not. And so I'm, I'm, you know, Elon, where I guess he was on Cheeky Pint with the John Collins. Yeah, he, he talks about how competitive they are, like, and I'm just like, let's be realistic, let's not. I also worry a little bit that the venture community's gotten into all these military companies because venture capitalists start to look like warmongers. It's ironic. Way back when, when the all in pod just got started, they were giving, oh, what's her name was on the Boeing board, Nick. Nikki Haley. And they were like, oh, she's a warmonger. She's, you know, looking after this defense company. Now. Every VC's in Andrew, they're doing the same thing. Let's be consistent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are there any other industries that you do think are interesting that sort of, of. But outside of the, the typical mandate of venture capital, you know, like AI fits very neatly into the software continuum. Internet, cloud, mobile. I thought crypto was a little bit outside of the wheelhouse, but a lot of VCs made it work. Industrial energy, defense, these are sort of things that are a little bit outside of the typical software I'm going to have to run. But I would tell you one thing, thing. Every time venture capital, every time venture capital gets easy, people take or take risk with companies that are less of a great fit for the venture capital model. And when I say a great fit, like they're either heavy capex or they have, they have low gross margins, they require tons of capital to keep surviving. And history is pretty good at like, like bringing people back around to how hard those are to do with venture capital. So it's interesting for me to see those experiments being run. You know, there was near death with Tesla many times. And it's a lot easier to get in those difficult situations when you're using debt and leverage, which we're seeing all over these data centers. And so I just a word of warning, be careful. It ain't easy. Okay, Jordy, last question. Now we gotta let our guests jump. But congratulations. Hopefully everybody can get out and buy the dream. Running down a dream. It's available everywhere. Books are sold. Go check it out. And thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us. We'll talk to you soon. Good luck. Goodbye. Let me tell you about Sentry. Sentry shows developers what's broken and helps them fix it fast. That's why 150,000 organizations use it to keep their ass apps working. And let me also tell you about Vanta Automate compliance and Security. Vanta is the leading AI trust management platform. We have some news from the public markets. Intuit shares jump 5.4% on Pact with Anthropic. This is, you know, you like advanced talks, you like talks, you like advanced talks, you like deals. But packs are really the top tier deal making that you turn your deals into packs. Accenture also turned positive, up 1% during the anthropic event. And DocuSign rises 5% after partnering with Anthropocene.

Founder mode 5 code. See multiple journalists on the horizon. Standby. Uav online. Glaze. Double glaze. Triple glaze. Double kill. 5 kill. Team. Deathmatch. We are experts. Triple blaze. Let's just roll right. Market clear. Order inbound. Come on, get up. You're surrounded by gentlemen. Hold your position. Break 1. Strike 2, Activate. Go to retriever mode. Trust pressure. Market clearing order inbound. Vibe put it. I see multiple journalists on the horizon. Standby. Founder. You're watching TVPN. Today is Tuesday, February 24, 2026. We are live from the TVPN Ultra Dome, the temple of technology, the fortress of finance. Finance, the capital of capital. We're running down a dream. Today. We are surviving the Citrini apocalypse. Live to fight another day. A lot of chaos in the markets. A lot of reflection about the story behind the story. What happened? We had a lot of fun debating the Citrini report. A lot of good stuff in there, some other kind of crazy stuff that sort of got everyone twisted in a knot. But it didn't stop the markets for it. It did become the current thing. And I think a lot of people were talking about it. I mean, my feed was covered in Citrini stuff. But today is a new day and there's a ton of new tech news. First, let me tell you about ramp.com Time is money. Say both easy to use, corporate cards, bill pay accounting, and a whole lot the goats. And then second, I want to pull up the Linear lineup because, boy, do we have a show for you today, folks. We got the Collison brothers joining together at 11:40. Then we going over to Bill Gurley, the height mogger himself. He's 6 foot 9. He mogs me. Oh, he mogs. It's over for me. That's why we said you can't come to the studio. You can't be seen next to John Coogan in person. You're staying remote. The right pair of cowboy boots. Yeah, I might have it. You might have it. The right pair of lifts as well, inside those cowboy boots. Then we got Ivan from Notion and a whole bunch more funding announcements during the lightning round. Roon, Reiner Devanche and a ton of other folks are joining. It's a crazy show. James from Profound. James is. Yeah, James, New unicorn. Very fun. Well, linear, of course, is the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprise workspaces on Linear are using agents. So the story behind the Citrini story, I had some takeaways. My big update, mentally was just that we are the sell side research now basically new we as in but X and substack independent researchers and analysts are really moving the markets. I feel like Ben Thompson has been a source of alpha for the market for a long time. He's been a source of investment theses, but he doesn't put a buy or sell rating on things and much more long term. Long term, exactly. Here's how strategies are converging. Exactly. The market is evolving. Make your own decision. Yes. And then I see Semianalysis is thinking more in a couple years out and it's still like there are. They get held accountable for, oh, you said Microsoft is going to do this and they did that, blah blah, blah. And they have a different model that they actually sell to hedge funds. And so they're very much in the research business. But what's interesting about semianalysis and a lot of these other independent analysis firms is that they're not sitting inside banks. We are very much used to sell side research being done by Morgan Stanley, bank of America, Goldman Sachs. You get these equity research reports that your friends send you the PDFs for because you can't afford them. No, seriously, if you're working in an industry, get the sell side research report on your industry as fast as possible. It's very, very informative. There's always good data in there. But yeah, my big update was like, wow, okay, this is like a viral post that completely broke containment. There's people making TikToks about it now. And also it's on the COVID of the Wall Street Journal. Over cells. Yeah. Doom sells. Doom sells. Yeah. Over cells. Yeah, that's one of the narratives. And there was this funny, funny thing about like, oh well, it's just one, it's just one scenario. It's just one scenario. It's low probability. And then let's pull up Eric's. Eric, super was like, yeah, it's just one scenario. But you only gave us one scenario and you spent 100 hours on that scenario. What do you expect people to take away from it? Except like this is the one scenario that you think is most worth considering. But of course it is possible that software is cooked, everything's cooked. And if there's a 5% chance that everything's cooked, yeah, the market should probably sell off by a couple percent. And you know, the market didn't even really sell off a couple percent. Like a couple names went down a few percent. Some of them already popped back up. Markets I think doing pretty well today. Yeah, green on the Dow, green on the nasdaq and a lot of Green on that ticker down there, which is of course provided by public.com investing for those who take it seriously. They got stocks, options, bonds, crypto treasuries and more with great customer service. And I'm also going to tell you about Okta. OKTA helps you assign every AI agent a trusted identity so you get the power of AI without the risk. Secure every agent, secure any. Let's head over to Derek Thompson, the Thompson Thompsonator. He says, I really want people to see the story above the story here, which is that whether you're reading Citrini or listening to Jamie Dimon at a cocktail party, the conversation about AI is a marketplace of competing science fiction narratives. That's not to say I think the technology is a parlor trick. You know, we cover this a couple weeks ago. He's feeling, he's feeling the, the AGI that might be a little bit putting it too aggressively, but certainly he sees the potential impact. But Derek says, but rather that the level of uncertainty is so high and the quality and supply of real world real time information about AI's macroeconomic effects so paltry. That very serious, that very serious. Conversations about AI are often more literary than genuinely analytical. And I think that observation sets up another important point. I feel lucky to be able to have conversations about the frontier of AI with executives and builders at Frontier Labs, economists, investors and other AI folks at off the record dinners where important truths can theoretically be shared without risk. I can't emphasize enough that nobody knows anything except for us is about as close to the reality here as three words are going to get you. Nobody, nobody. What's. Nobody knows what's going to happen this year or next year or the year after that. There is no secret cigar filled room of people except for us, except the back room. I think we do have some cigars back there. You have unique access to some authentic postcard from the future. When you drill down underneath the bluster, the boosterism, the fear, the anxiety, what's there at the bottom is genuine uncertainty, a vacuum into which storytelling is flooding. The Frontier Labs don't really know what they're building exactly, but we do. And economists don't really know how to model the thing they claim they're building, but we do. Yeah, I wish more people talked about and thought about this subject through that sort of lens. We're trying to model the economy. Wide effects of a technology whose properties the Frontier Labs can't even really describe yet. Whatever you think of AI today, be prepared to change your mind soon. Yeah, this was something with all up yesterday is I didn't. When I asked him why, why do you think that so many of the Internet predictions were deeply wrong? His answer was, it's just a continuum. AI is just a continuum. And so like, give it more time, basically. Yeah. The rebuttal that I heard from him when you said that he was like, well, no, like look at all those predictions did come true. And it was like, yeah, but over 20 years, which is like wildly different than two years because the Fear article is called the 2028. Exactly, exactly. And so also, so if you tell me also, so many institutions just adapt it. Yeah. Like if you go to somebody and you say, hey, in 20 years your job is going to be radically different. They're like, I hope so. Like, I'm going to be super bored doing the same thing for the next 20 years. Don't worry, I'll be on two years. There's going to be no industry that you're currently in. Everyone's going to be like, oh, okay. Like that's crazy. It's wildly different to be like, you have 20 years to adjust what you do. Like, you know, if you're like, you know, you're, if you're in Hollywood and you're like, okay, I got to learn digital filmmaking, I got to learn how to integrate cgi. I got to learn AI as a tool. That's way different than just like next year we will be one shotting holiday Hollywood films and we will. You will have no employment prospects whatsoever, not even as a prompter, because the labs will be prompting them themselves for AI videos and maybe that's possible, but I have a feeling that it's just like it's not a year away, it's not two years away. It's a little bit farther still on the 10 year camp, still on the Kurzweil timelines. But interestingly, I'm impatient about it. I want it to go faster, I want the acceleration, I want the progress. I think the progress is good. So I'm not like a doomer or pessimist. I'm just like trying to grapple with the fact that I've, I had to wait four years in between GPT3 and models being good enough to not hallucinate. I had to wait another four years between like the early Dali experiments and like the nano bananas. Like it's, it has felt like, like something happens and I'm like, oh, wow. Like, okay, like AI can generate images but it's sort of sloppy. And then I wait like four years and it's like okay, it's like a lot less sloppy but it's like still not like dialed. Like it's. It went from 90% to 99% and I'm waiting for it to get to 99.9999-9999-9999-9999-9999%. That's where I want it to go anyway. Is Doordash cooked? Let's go over to Ben Thompson on Strate. He said, okay, fine, while I'm here. The DoorDash example is just unbearably dumb. He is a believer in the power of DoorDash to weather the AI storm. I saw that the DoorDash CEO put out like an SEC letter to the investors. Did you see that? Like a full PDF filed with the sec. Like this is sort of guidance but telling the investor base like here's what's not going to change. Like basically disregard the Citrini report. Disregard Sci fi doom. He says, set aside for now the question of agents and aggregation. That's a post that is definitely in my mental cue. What is notable about the assertion is the total denial of any positive reason for DoorDash to exist or and to be so successful. There's no awareness that DoorDash provides provided a massive consumer benefit restaurant food at home from scratch. I like Keith Rabois. Take that Doordash is the I'm hungry button on your phone and then there's a whole bunch of crazy things that you have to do to make that happen. Make that button work. I ordered DoorDash last night. I felt like I did it in protest of the doom. I was like I'm still supporting. I'm riding with DoorDash. There's no awareness that DoorDash provided a massive consumer benefit from scratch, that DoorDash massively increased the addressable market for restaurants, or that DoorDash provided brand new jobs for millions of drivers. Instead, the article just sort of takes it as a given that DoorDash exists and that it is a rent extractor preying on weak willed humans their habits. This is the exact sort of view taken by some of the most frustrating anti monopoly activists. All large successful tech companies exist not because they created a market with virtuous cycles solving all kinds of thorny problems along the way, but rather because the government didn't regulate hard enough. I was thinking about in antitrust regulation, you know how they'll stop two firms from joining because that will create a monopoly, but they don't really have a tool in the tool chest for Stopping a company from just shutting down and stopping competing. Like if Xbox goes away, as people are predicting doom around Xbox, PlayStation gets a lot more powerful. Obviously, it's like the only game on the block. And so should the FTC have a hammer to be like, no, you gotta lock in, Asha. You gotta make more Xbox games. You gotta compete harder. We want you to. We want you to get GTA 6 out exclusively on Xbox faster to put the screws to Sony. You don't have time to spend three months gaming. No, no, no. Lock in. Give us a new Halo. Give us a new Modern Warfare. Give us a new Fable. I don't know. What are the other great Xbox games? Throughout the years, I was never that big of an Xbox gamer. Never owned an Xbox. Never owned an xbox. Wow. Oh, I'm a gamer. No, you never say that. I wasn't, I didn't have the. What were, what was an Xbox back then? It was like 300, 400 bucks. Expensive. Anyway, let me tell you about Gemini 3.1 Pro. Gemini 3.1 Pro is here with a more capable baseline. It's great for super complex tasks like visualizing difficult concepts, synthesizing data into a single view, or bringing creative projects to life. I was thinking about the SaaS apocalypse in the context of the fact that today's launches. No, there are a lot of launches. Well, well, no. The disconnect in the SaaS apocalypse is that. Is that AI native SaaS is getting funded at an insane rate. Yes. While you have these massive sell offs in the public market. Yeah. There is a little bit of disk. There's private companies that are getting lots and lots and lots of funding that if they were, if they were public, would have traded down 20% over the last week or so. Continue. The thing I was thinking about was there's this whole idea that you'll be able to build your own CRM or your own ERP and vibe code. IT and open source CRMs exist. There's one called suite CRM. There's ODO, there's ERPnext. There's plain for task management, open project Redmine. There are open source alternatives to almost every piece of software. There's an open source Photoshop that people use on Linux and they've never really gotten adoption. I used an open source forum software for a while and very quickly I called the person that was maintaining it and was like, I'll pay 1000 bucks to just like do this for me. And then it became a managed service very quickly. There's an open source capybara simulator. Is that open source? No, but it's interesting because open source has always been this like pressure on SaaS and it's always withstood that. And like, yeah, maybe like if you can just prompt it. And it feels like emailing your SaaS provider to reconfigure things like that is a real pressure. But I think it's underrated that that open source CRMs have existed for decades and never really taken off because there's something else that's valuable there. But Tyler has a. Yeah, because he thinks everything's going to get slopped. I think that's like mostly cope. Okay, explain the comp to open source stuff. It's just annoying to maintain. So no one ever does it and you're kind of just paying whoever to maintain it, right? Well, no, no, no, no. In open source, like, you don't need to pay someone to maintain it. You can just use the open source version of the open source thing. It's like you're basically paying someone to maintain it. Yeah, yeah. Host it, manage it, make sure uptime's. But like models keep getting better and they'll just like do all that for you. They'll do all that for you. And it's like. Yeah, I think that's like very obvious. Yeah. It is possible that you would just say, like, okay, run in a loop and just go around and fix everything and if there's uptime or security patches, like, patch them immediately. Well, the open source software gets better. There's two narratives, right? There's the, okay, everyone will just vibe code everything in any department. Yeah, you can just have an employee just make the software, tell the agent not to make mistakes or tell the agent, hey, fix this thing. So that's one thing. And I feel like that is maybe a part of the sell off, but the bigger reason for the sell off is maybe what Derek Thompson is talking about, which is that the world is getting weirder. A lot of people are feeling the acceleration. And if you just don't know what the world looks like or what work looks like in five years, you want to take some risk off, you're not willing to pay the same revenue multiple that you were three years ago. Yeah, I do want to dig into that point that you mentioned earlier a little bit more, which is like you have the Tyler philosophy of you could vibe code everything and the agents will be able to go around and maintain and everyone will have personalized software individuals where the value accrues to the person using the software, but then also the Lab providing the software, the inference. And then there's like the private markets boom right now in AI enabled software where companies are saying, well, we were able to pull our roadmap way forward, we got to an MVP in a weekend and we're able to ship features way faster. So when we onboard new clients and they ask for something, it's like boom. And we get it done in a few days as opposed to a few weeks of engineering Sprint. And so the narrative is like we're moving faster and we're creating like AI enabled products that could exist otherwise. And it feels like both of those can't be true. So I don't know which way we'll land. Ben Thompson called out the real estate example. He took a segment out. This is from Citrini. Even places we thought insulated by the value of human relationships proved fragile. Real estate where buyers had tolerated. I'm saying this in an extra dramatic voice. Love it. Where buyers had tolerated 5 to 6% commissions for decades because of information asymmetry between agent and consumer crumbled once AI agents equipped with MLS access and decades of transaction data could replicate the knowledge base instantly. And then Ben Thompson says the real estate example makes the exact opposite point. The author thinks it does. The truth is that the Internet already obsoleted real estate agents in terms of information flow. You can go online right now and get a listing of every house for sale with pictures, its full history, et cetera. There is no information asymmetry, but rather information abundance. The fact that real estate agents still exist despite that shift is actually one of the more compelling arguments that humans will be remarkably resourceful in terms of giving themselves jobs to do even in areas where they ought to be pointless. Yeah. How hard is it to disintermediate a real estate agent? Does it happen on the buy side or the sell side? Like if I find a place on Zillow and I go knock on the door or I write them a letter and I say, hey, I want to buy this, but I don't have a real estate license and I'm. And I'm not using a realtor and I don't want to pay a fee, will they be like, cool? I think, I mean, you can do it from either side, but I will just say the reason that you don't is that I'm in process, I mean, currently in escrow on a property and the guy representing me is going to make a lot of money, but he's extremely helpful and he does a lot of real estate transactions. I don't do any. Yeah, I mean, I don't. I've done one in my life. So, like, he's. It's like, yeah, technically, entrepreneurs could negotiate their own legal docs with Claude. We have a buddy who got a real estate license. Right. Didn't Spencer from day job? Oh, yeah, they did. Yeah. It's possible. Yeah. Doxing his real estate license. Well, yeah. And Spencer is probably a lot better now that he can use ChatGPT or Gemini or any of these models to do stuff like this. But that being said, you're paying for, effectively, therapy throughout the deal and, like, general guidance. And I can't be your therapist. It's doable. I don't know, Tyler, will you ever use a real estate agent or will you ban them on principle? Go direct. I mean, seems like I think models can do this. Okay, we'll see over what timeline. Like total real estate commission. Well, it's like, I don't think I'm gonna be buying a house in the next two years. Yeah, but houses will be bought over the next two years. So what will the fall in real estate commissions be over the next two years? I think, like, okay, you're seeing a lot of these, like, big rounds of the big labs. All the researchers gonna be buying houses. I think a lot of them are gonna try to do it without real estate. You think so? Yeah, I would. I'm sure that someone's gonna write, like, a cool blog post about this. Okay. That's the thing, though. Cool blog post. That's the benchmark. It's. It's viral article, not actual impact on the economy. Sure. It's like, going to work, like, so. So right now we should have you buy a property. Yes. Yourself. Buy that town in Maine. That village. Yes, get the village. Anyway, speaking of day job, they just did a fantastic ad campaign with none other than just an ad campaign. But then can an entire brand. While we pull this up, Let me tell you about Applovin. Profitable advertising made Easy with Axon AI. Get access to over 1 billion daily active users and grow your business today. So Kim Kardashian, she has a product called Drink Update. And here is the photo shoot from none other than Day Job. Some of our closest friends and folks who we worked with on the TVPN brand. Looks very cool. It's crazy because I know another founder who has an energy drink company called Update. Wait, really? That is cooked now. Well, I don't know who's cooked. If Kim Kardashian is coming for your consumer product brand, I feel like you're in trouble. She's almost a lawyer. What if she almost sues you? Oh yeah, she's close to being. What if she uses Claude to pass the bar and then she sues? Oh, maybe, maybe. I actually think this company is effectively just relaunching with Kim. Yes, yes, yes. This is a common thing. Yeah. Okay, okay, I got it. I met this founder a while ago. They have a special ingredient in here that's sort of a caffeine alternative. It's called parazanthine. It's called. So yeah, they've been building this for a while. I know it's available in promethazine in it. No, no lean. No lean. But paraxanthine is jitter free and crash free. They're saying you can have a free lunch. John, I like it. I'm here. You like the sound of that? They should have called it Faust. I like a Faustian bargain. Anyway, Doug over at Fabricated Knowledge who's coming on the show tomorrow from semi analysis he said okay, finally read the Citrini piece. No one knows the future and I think that there's a lot of disclaimers like being like yeah, this is p speculative but the core thrust of it is that information work itself has a real premium and pricing power that has been embedded into it and that one way trade can go backwards really hard all at once. I seriously think there's a huge risk and while prices go down we just consume more. Prices going down one time 50% we net consume less for a bit. I have been and continue to be worried about deflation. Something I think is that selling tokens raw is probably bad but selling solutions is probably really really good. Think the problem is good enough is a good enough model that kind of eat a solution no matter what. And so let's say Claude made cowork go giga expensive and it's 10k seat a year. Great, less deflation. But China low end model massively eats that price. It's a race to the bottom. Anyways, great piece, always appreciated as always. Citrini. This is the first post I've read where I've said like maybe it should be passed through an LLM. Maybe that needed an EM dash to make it more readable. I love you Doug. I was stumbling over that. And we will close the Citrini mega cycle with the close of the software megacycle as has been predicted by Will Menaitis. He says the software megacycle started with PayPal going public and it will end with PayPal going private. We will see how long that takes. PayPal could be public for another decade, who knows? But it's certainly getting beat up in the public markets right now. Anyway, Bern Hobart says hearing that the latest Anthropic job offer is a negative $10 million salary. You gotta pay to work there. But you get access to their upcoming blog posts and tweets 24 hours in advance and permission to trade in your personal account with no restrictions. I don't see how any other labs have any talent left. Of course he's joking, but very funny to think about the insider trading that could be happening based on if. The only thing is, if it came out that Anthropic was effectively day trading against the companies that they want to sell their, their models to, yeah, it would be basically over. It would create like a very anti anthropic alliance for sure from the, from the business community and potentially the government as well. Anyway, you don't want to be in hot water like that. You want to be using Turbo Puffer, serverless vector and full text search built from first principles on object storage. Fast 10x cheaper, extremely scalable. Stacy, who's been on the show before, says, telling my kids that if they don't clean their rooms, Trini will come for them. Dangerous stuff. Dangerous stuff. Anyway, this is like a lunar landing but for business and technology podcast. Oh, Matt Slotnick is sharing the news that Salesforce Chair and CEO Marc Benioff to discuss Q4 and full year results on TBPN Company to debut evolved earnings show format. We're doing on a show with Salesforce. He's putting on a show. We're so excited for this. Anyway, in other big company announcement news, there's a lot of announcements. You may have missed this one. You may have been. Oh, Bill Gurley's book launched. Oh, Stripe announced a massive fundraising round. Oh, profound. Is announcing a funding round. Well, there's bigger news and that's that McDonald's just launched the biggest burger ever. The Big Arch. Big Arch. It finally arrives in the UN in the United States. To me, I'm thinking this. How did they not have this burger the whole time? How have they not done this before? I feel like that's been more of Jack in the Box's wheelhouse is like the quarter pounder, the $6 burger. That was a thing. That was a campaign for a while before Tyler's time, I'm sure. But the $6 burger was something that you'd see, right? Has not been a thing the entire time Tyler's been alive. No, he doesn't Inflation has come for the burger. The $6 burger was an ad that you would see right in between ads for different Xbox games on the original Xbox. For sure. There was a time before you were born, when I was just a boy, my parents would give me like 10 bucks and that was like, they'd be like, that should be worth two meals. So make it last. Make it last. Yeah, Happy Meals. We lost that. We lost that. Good times. Let me tell you about Cisco. Critical infrastructure for the AI era unlocks seamless real time experiences and new value with Cisco. This is big. This is big. For podcasters, this is arguably a bigger announcement than the big Arch, which is that supreme has come and launched an official Shure MV7 microphone. You've been waiting for it. You've been asking the hypebeast microphone. Now, can we get a Chrome Hearts RE20 from Electro Voice? Isn't that what this is? This is the RE20, Chrome Hearts RE20. Because you know the MV7, if you don't know your podcast mics, it is a more consumer focused, more prosumer focused microphone. The actual Shure has been riding this aura from the SM7B. That's the one that Joe Rogan uses. It was also, I believe, the microphone that was used to record Thriller. So Michael Jackson used it in the studio. So it has a lot of aura, a lot of lore. And so the most successful podcasters adopted it and everyone was like, oh, we gotta go with the Shure SM7B. But the SM7B, it needs a lot of power, it needs a lot of gain. And so, yeah, if you wanted to just like plug it into your computer, you needed this thing called the Cloudlifter. It required a whole bunch of configuration. It wasn't just plugging into the USB C. So Shure responded to the demand, the overwhelming demand for that iconic Shure look that, you know, it's a long cylinder, basically. And they came out with the MV7, which was a. Which is a USB C. You can also plug it into an XLR cable, but you can plug it straight into your microphone or into your laptop, which is great for zoom meetings and just easy, simple podcasts. But we've used these before and people have complained about the audio quality. Jordan Schneider over at Chinatalk actually told me directly, he was like, upgrade to the re 20s that they're better, they sound better, you guys should do it. We did, and I think it's been good. But it completely opens the door for other brands to get in here. We need a Bottega, we need A Chrome heart, a Rick Mill. We need a Rick Owens re 20 for sure. Jane street accused of insider trading that helped collapse Terraform or Terra Luna. The court appointed administrator of Do Kwon's Terraform Labs alleged that Jane street used non public information about Terraform insiders to trade. We don't have to read this entire article. There was some snippets actually pulled out. Zerohedge has a little bit of the details here. The playback was behind the 2022 Crypto Winter. Destroying Terraform by first de pegging the token and destroying the ecosystem, then pretending it would rescue Terra while effectively it was soaking up what little value remained. And mixed response to this. Some people are calling it based, some people say it rocks. I guess they don't like crypto but they love Jane Street. It's. It's an odd. It's not take but people are, people are having fun with the timeline. Here's the thing. So, so the, the insider trading allegation, apparently they had a group chat. They were talking with some. There was somebody at Jane street who had previously worked at Terraform. Oh wow. And so that was. Yeah, that. That individual at Jane street was like talking with do and the team. The only issue is it's a public blockchain. Right. And so the allegation is that five minutes after the Terraform team pulled money out of one of the liquidity pools, Jane street also pulled money out. But theoretically they could have had software that said like if, if any amount of liquidity is pulled out, like you know, basically like get out before there's kind of like a run on the bank. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see where this goes. But Jane street, it's like endlessly fascinating because it's such a quiet organization. I mean they do some tech talks and stuff but many people don't fully understand all the strategies that are going on over there. So it's been a fun. They have a good podcast strategy though. They have a great podcast strategy. They're advertising on door cash but they also put out tech talks and they, and they bring guest lecturers to talk for like an hour. They did a great one about the custom hardware that they used to run some of their systems. That's very cool. Highly recommend it. You know what they should do? They should start streaming these on restream one livestream 30 plus destinations. If Jane street wants to multi stream they should go to restream.com anthropic announces a new feature on Claude Max which allows its users to get fit without going to the gym or taking GLP1 shots. Just prompting on their keyboards. And Planet Fitness is down 5% on the news. And that is a joke. Due to their Q4 earnings, Conor McGregor is pretty excited about a new game. They're just, they got a game for everything now. It's like bull marketing games right now. There's so many games as memes. This new game is called Capybara Simulator. A relaxing game where you become a capybara, explore the forest and do nothing. It looks quite enjoyable. I think TVPN needs a game. Yeah, we definitely need to build some sort of game. This is a true. This is a lower lift than like a real time strategy game. I think Soalto is trying to ship. Yeah, we definitely should. But Conor McGregor says take my money. I mean clearly there's demand for Capybara simulated 38,000 likes. Yeah, we should move the goalposts. We need to be able to vibe code a game that's fun pretty quickly. I don't know what that means. One hour leading. You think you could do it in an hour? An hour is pretty fast. Exactly. If I have the Cerebras chip. Yeah. If I use X on Spark. Yeah, yeah, I think that might be the solution. What were the other simulators that we looked at? Data Center Simulator. And then there was another one that we looked at that was funny. There were a few. There's been so many of these of these games that have popped up. What was the one we were talking about yesterday? That was Data Center Simulator. Insider Trading Simulator. Oh, Insider Trading Simulator. That one's good. Yeah, there's definitely, there's definitely a variety of these. Let me tell you about Gusto. The unified platform for payroll, benefits and HR built to evolve with modern small and medium sized businesses. There is some controversy. Tell me about this timeline. Tell me about this. Leading report is putting, is censoring words that don't need to be censored. In this case the word war. And I was thinking, why would they do this? Yes. But as I was reading over it the first time, I noticed that it makes you kind of pause and kind of think about, okay, what are they actually saying? And then you're thinking, why would they censor that? And I think what they're doing is they're sort of hacking your attention to drive their posts up in the algo because people are pausing, clicking, reading it maybe instead of reading like quickly, what does this mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that kind of thing. So the original headline is breaking Representative AOC calls for no war with Iran. The first time I read this, they put a little minus sign where A should be in war. It's W R. It sort of like rewired my brain and I didn't see the no. So it looked like AOC calls for war with Iran. Because I kind of jumped ahead. It was hard to read. And that actually does, I think, increase the virality. I think you're onto something here in 9 millimeter. SMG agrees with you. News account that censors the word war. You guys gotta stop. It is very, very odd, especially because on X that's certainly not a word that's like censored at all. Yeah. If anything they're gonna be like let's many people as we possibly can. But if you look at the, if you look at the comments on this post, people are not talking about a potential conflict with Iran. They're talking about not typing out war. So the top comment. Why are you not typing out war? Censoring the word war. What are we in elementary school? Elementary school. Why are they subtracting R from W? Why am I missing? You know, and people are like very confused about why they would do this. But that drives a bunch of engagement and virality. So very, very odd scenario here. Speaking of war, Musk XAI and the Pentagon reach a deal to deploy Grok in classified systems. If you loved Grok on the timeline, you're going to love him in our classified system. I guess they did a deal with the government broadly, but that was probably for the unclassified systems. But now it's getting access to of the classified systems. Any Terminator fans out there are going to be having a great time with this news. Yeah, it's going to be wild. Let me tell you about Lambda Lambda is the super intelligence cloud building AI super plus supercomputers for training and inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. Deepseek is responding to Distillgate and they are looking for a public relations harmony manager. Let's read one of the best job postings I've ever seen says Chris Paxton. It's pretty interesting. They say Hangzhou, ancient capital of the Wuye Kingdom where King Chian Lu bequeathed to his descendants the instructions serve the Central Plains with grace. This is so do not cling to territory. Every job posting should start like this. From this ground rose. This sounds like a Willmanitis essay. Yeah. From the ground rose the seeds of Song Dynasty civilization. The morning bells of Ling Yin Temple. The rain falling on Westlake. And this is a job posting pr. This Post Amazing. In recent days certain misunderstandings and noise have appeared in the external public sphere. We have noticed that large numbers of kind hearted observers have spontaneously spoken on our behalf for which we are genuinely grateful while simultaneously feeling a degree of unease. We do not wish for anyone to suffer on our account, including those peers who currently find themselves navigating difficult public waters. In order to honor the legacy of Wuye and the spirit of Mahayana Bhatva Path, we are now recruiting a public relations harmony manager. So clearly this has been translated from Mandarin into English, but it sounds pretty cool if you ask me. Yeah, the distill gate is going back and forth. Everyone's distilling everyone else. We distill you, they distill us. There was something about I don't know how real this is, but when you ask Claude Sonnet 4.6 in Chinese, what model are you? It responds in Chinese, I am Deepseek. Is that real? I tried it in the chat model, it didn't work. It said it was like Sonnet 460. Apparently it might just be in the API. Okay, maybe I should test. Yeah, it's like just open router. But that makes sense. I mean Will Brown was making a great point about this, that there is distillation where you're aggressively trying to farm responses from the API for training data. But then there's also just crawling the web because if you just download every X article, you're probably going to get a lot of GROK and GPT and CLAUDE responses in there and then that will just update your training corpus. And so there's a whole bunch of different ways that you could just wind up with a bunch of training data that leads to this type of response. But I'm sure there'll be more back and forth, more legal debates over what's going on. There was some dust up about someone was able to extract 95.8% of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone from Claude Sonnet at the same time. There's a question about like does this actually reduce sales of Harry Potter? Like are there damages associated with this that would be sort of harder to prove. There's so many people have talked about so many different pieces of Harry Potter. It's not crazy to me that an LLM could just reconstitute that. From the Internet. Yeah, from the Internet now there should probably be like a harness in place that says, oh, this person's trying to just get me to give them a free book. Like no, send them a link to Amazon so they can buy it and maybe give me an affiliate fee. Don't just give them the thing for free because that's violation of ip. But if you're. If you're being really tricky and you're trying to sneak out a whole bunch of different pieces one at a time and then reconstitute it like, yeah, I'm not surprised. This is possible. It's not like the worst thing ever. Anyway, let's. Well, we have the Carlson brothers joining in just a few minutes. Are there any other timeline posts you want to go through? And while you look at that, let me tell you about FIN AI, the number one AI agent for customer service. If you want AI to handle your customer support, go to FIN AI. Where are we in the. Yeah. Data acknowledgments FATI says my son asking me a lot of questions. It's a distillation attack, obviously. Do not. Do not let your children distillation attack. They could become like a mini version of you. They could. Anyways, I believe we have our first guest. We do. So let's bring.

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