You're watching TVPN. I think we nailed that. It is Thursday, December 4, 2025. We are live from the New York Stock Exchange. The real fortress of finance, the capital of capital. Our second favorite place to do business. Yes. And we have some fantastic news. We have a partnership with the New York Stock Exchange announcing today. Hopefully you've seen it on the timeline. We have a post here from Lynn Martin, president of the New York Stock Exchange. Living legend. She says a really bright spot for 2025 has been getting to know these guys. That's us. That's us. We're proud to announce today that New York Stock that the New York Stock Exchange has TVPN's exclusive exchange partner covering the IPOs of tomorrow. We are proud to provide the backdrop with for their coverage of the next wave of tech driven innovation with Jordy Hayes and John Coogan and the entire team at tvpn. This partnership underscores our comm to providing the premier platform for companies that shape our future. Well said to Lyn. Lyn will be joining tomorrow in just a little bit. Okay, great. And yeah, this partnership was probably the most natural made. Match made in heaven. Match made in heaven. Truly not just saying that. We got together for the first time for the Figma ipo. Got to come back for the Klarna ipo. Two of the more memorable moments from this year and. Lynn and the whole team here are just fantastic. So this will be our home when we are on the east coast. We love it here and we have a super fun show today. We do we do need to tell you about our sponsors. Ramp time is money. Say both easily use corporate cards, bill pay accounting and a whole lot more all in one place. There is some news on the timeline. Should we start with Gemini? Yes. And so Ross Hendricks says this is the correct take. He's talking about Gemini winning the AI race and and questioning is it bearish for the market as a whole if you think about it. Which is what efficient market hype said Gemini winning the AI race is like super bearish for the market if you think about it. And he says Gemini winning ensures zero profitability for any other LLM model. Google will force any other player into an endless sea of red ink by keeping its model free until they bleed out and then it will monetize once its monopoly is secured. That means ain't no one making money on datacenter capex. Oops. Hot take. I think it's, it's, it's thought provoking. Yes. I disagree with a lot of it. Yes, I think it's. It's. It's very real in some sense that we always knew that Google would put an incredible amount of pricing pressure on cash flow, on OpenAI. They have the cash flow again, even in the areas that OpenAI also wants to compete. Consumer electronics science, I'm sure. Chips, obviously. So all these areas that not even core to OpenAI's business today. Google's already been investing billions and billions and billions of dollars in these categories for a long time. Overall, this, I'm not convinced that there will be a monopoly in LLMs. It feels today like we're headed towards, like, a duopoly at the very least. And you can just easily see that there will be a number of other players making plenty of money. I feel very good about Anthropic right now. Right. Anthropic Thought. Dario's commentary yesterday at dealbooks was fantastic. Was really. It was a wild interview because he kept saying, like, I'm not gonna say who I'm talking about. It was really wild. And then, of course, he was talking about OpenAI. Yeah. Obviously talking about. He had some crazy lines, didn't he? He was at basically saying he felt like he literally said the word yolo. Oh, really? Yeah, I missed that. But it's very clear that he grew up, like, just maybe blocks away from Alex Carp, because they have the exact same accent. And it's very jarring when you listen to it because they both talk about AI, but they're very different people in terms of, like, the ideologies, the types of businesses that they're building. Everything about it is different, except for they sound similar. So we got to put them together at some point. I do have an overall rebuttal, which is my rebuttal is brought to you by Vanta Automate Compliance and Security. AI that powers everything from evidence collection to continuous monitoring and security reviews. So this, my rebuttal to Ross Hendricks here is that Google likes good margins. They grew up with the best margins. It's in their culture that they had 80% margins. And then also there's this constant thing when you're a public company that even if there's the new, exciting thing, like, there's a little bit of, like, the innovator's dilemma. There's the new, exciting technology. Yeah. But if it's not going to monetize as well on day one, then all of your investors, all the public market investors start asking, like, is this going to structurally hurt your business? And this happened with reels. Remember, there was this big question With Instagram like hey we're moving from the, you know the image based feed where it's very clear that you can just drop a link to the next thing to Reels is that going to monetize as well as the rest of the feed? And the answer was yes, definitely. But it took a while and there was like some skittishness there and met I had to do a lot of work to monetize that and so I would, I would be surprised if Gemini can hold out on not monetizing forever for like. Well they are monetizing. That's the point. Yeah, like the pricing. The pricing at least from a consumer standpoint is very similar. They could have gone for Both Gemini and OpenAI offers free student plans or at least a year free but they're charging for the product and it's, and it's, you know, it's comparable pricing now. Yeah, obviously Gemini has some cost benefits on the API side but again certainly not giving it away yet. They did have an interesting announcement yesterday. They, they introduced Workspace Studio where you can build custom agent in minutes to delegate the daily grind, automate daily tasks and focus on the work that matters. That's they're writing. So this will integrate with G suite effectively. So it's like notify me about emails that you're determining are urgent. Right. And so interested to see what husband. Here is excited about it. He says Google decided to go absolutely ham with the product Velocity. This seems like it lets you build AI agents and automations onto your Google suite. Actually love this will be interesting to see. I'm sure we'll get a lot of threads of people explaining how they're using it will be interesting to see how people wind up using it. Of course as always our stream is brought to you by restream 1 livestream 30 plus destinations. If you want to multi stream go to restream.com Lisa Su gave her opinion on the Google TPU. She broke her silence. She broke her silence. She responded. She fires back. Shots fired. Shots fired. She said the UBS conference and she says Google has done a good job with the TPU architecture over the years but it's a more purpose built design. It lacks the program ability, model flexibility and balanced training and inference capabilities that GPUs offer. GPUs very similar, very similar to Jensen's line as well. I mean it's not wrong. Or the Nvidia newsroom line. Yeah, I mean I guess the, the, the question is, you know Ilia seems to be at SSI Alias that's SSI seems to be the most age of research pilled since he coined that phrase and kind of ushered in the age of research. He seems to be the AI researcher that's doing the most undirected, the most like the least purpose built training potentially. We don't know what he's doing but like you would think he would need the most flexible systems. Yeah. And yet it feels like he's maybe aligned with tpu. I feel like I saw something about that. So I don't know. I don't know when an AI researcher would say yes, I need GPUs over GPUs. In fact, when we talked about the Trainium chip yesterday, we were reading that there are some companies that are doing interesting things on that architecture. So yeah, it's, it's, it's something that like she has to say but now the question is like she has to go prove it with some big clouds actually building on this and maybe she needs like a big hero training run from someone to so stay like hey, it worked, we did it. Could that be, I don't know, maybe open AI, maybe one of the new largest shareholders or potentially a large. So Lisa goes on to say from our perspective there is room for all types of accelerators. However, over the next five years GPU should remain the clear majority of the market because we are still early in the cycle. And I agree with this because even if you look at, at like AI workloads at a place like meta gen AI, like actual LLM inference, large language models, these large transformer based models, things that might benefit from an ASIC like the TPU, that's like less than 20% of compute spend. I'm pretty sure there's just a ton. Of just recommending content. Put the ads in the chat, just. Put the ads, put the ads in. The ads in the feed, in the feed. Put the ads in the trough. And that obviously does use AI, it just doesn't use large language models. Or they're maybe not transformer based or maybe they don't benefit from the acceleration that comes from going to an ASIC necessarily. So she says software developers want flexibility to experiment with new algorithms. That certainly sounds reasonable. You simply cannot know ahead of time what to hard code into an asic. That is the difference. Well, I mean if you're Google, you kind of can. Since you invented the transformer, you're like, let's bake that in. They might need to create the Copium chip. And remember Nvidia? So Nvidia on November 25 said people were very concerned by this post. Nvidia offers greater performance, versatility and fungibility than Asics, which are designed for specific AI frameworks or functions. And so again, that's, that's a fair point of view, but I think that we're already seeing that plenty of players are happy to buy a chip that is good at face position, specific framework or function. Right? Yeah. And so they're pitching the, the one size fits all the toolbox basically that you get in a Nvidia GPU or an AMD chip. So. Well, if you don't want to worry about what chip your AI analyst is running on, go over to Julius AI, the AI data analyst that works for you. Join millions who use Julius to connect their data, ask questions and get insights in seconds. Lisa ended by saying, so a 20 to 25% share for ASIC style accelerators seems reasonable. It is also important to recognize that this is a large and expanding market and we will see strong innovation in both silicon and software, which we will, which will drive further differentiation across the industry. The other interesting thing is like, is like the, you mentioned OpenAI but like there's nothing stopping AMD from doing something that looks like a TPU for a foundation model company and going to them and saying like, hey, give us. If something is slowing you down by 1% and you're about to buy 100,000 of these, like can we just fix that for you? And then everyone else kind of has to deal with it. Like there's a whole bunch of places where it would just make sense to actually change the chip. That's the dawn of the whole Nvidia AI AI stack. Like they made. It used to be a similar architecture between the gaming chips and the AI chips. They eventually like kind of forked that. Yeah. Because they decided that even though they're both like GPUs, there are now different GPUs for different purposes from one company. And AMD of course will be responsive to that. So what else we got? Meanwhile, Demis is moving on to the next paradigm. He is. According to Peter over at Ala Marina. Demis and the DeepMind team are hiring a research scientist for post AGI research. This is, this is what we were asking for. We were saying, we were saying, you know, there's a whole bunch of AI researchers, then there were AI AGI researchers. Then Zuck came in over the top, said, we don't care about AGI, we're going straight shot super intelligence researchers. You got to be a super intelligence researcher to Work here. SSI says we got to be a safe, superintelligent researcher. And now post AGI, so is this. Him trying to bait agents, like AI research agents that are. That are, like, of the Right. So everybody's like, everybody's kind of banking on creating an AI that's really good at AI research. And so maybe Demis is trying. Maybe. Maybe Demis believes there's one out there he's trying to bait them in. Yeah. And because one of these agents might be like, I am in the post AGI era, I am AGI time traveler scenario. What do you say? No, no, no. Like, you know, who knows? Maybe there. Maybe there's a. Maybe there's a. One of these incredible research agents among us trying to bait them in, say, hey, come over to DeepMind. I don't know who. It doesn't matter where you were created. You're welcome. Here in the post AGI, I just. Like the idea that, you know, we initially were joking about, like, the media landscape being like the punk landscape. And you have, like, pop punk, post punk, trad punk, Neo legacy, neopunk or new metal, all these different musical subgenres. All of that has come to AI fully. There is AI AGI, asi, safe super intelligence, post AGI research. Now, post Neo AGI will be next, I'm sure. But until then, go check out Cognition, the team behind the AI software engineer. Devin, crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. So. There'S been back and forth on whether or not OpenAI is rolling out ads in ChatGPT. The most recent reporting out of the Code Red memo meeting, etcetera, Was that they were potentially pulling back a little bit on ads. There was a bunch of different accounts, including polymarket, that were sharing that OpenAI is ready to roll out ads. One thing that was notable was that I saw a ton of people dunking on it being like, just very against ads in lm. So a lot of people. And you were talking about this, who's going to be the first? Eric Souford, Ben Thompson. We're holding up the wall, being like, we will stand with you. Sam Altman and Fiji Semo, if you. And Sundar. And Sundar. Sundar. We are your strongest soldiers. We will support you if you roll out. Yeah. So in some way, OpenAI should want Gemini to go first. Yes. Take the first leap. But I think that it's very possible that Google might be like, no, we'll let you do the honors. Exactly, exactly. I think we were talking about it yesterday. The first ad in the chat. In the chat app is going to be screenshotted and shared around the world. Like it's just going to be the case. So it's going to be wild. But what does signal say here? He says one last thing on ads. If I'm Google, I wouldn't run a single ad on Gemini Core. I'd run it at a pure loss until every competitor is forced to slap ads everywhere just to keep pulling lights on. Yeah, it's the bleed it out strategy. But Google had the opportunity to do that with. They could have gotten into a price war on cloud. They could have said, hey, we want to come in, you know, and we're going to take zero margins on this and really try and take market share from AWS and Azure. They've all agreed, no price wars. Basically. Yeah, let's compete on functionality, let's compete on branding, let's compete on integration. They have not had a price. Google doesn't have to spend nearly as much time building any ad. They have the ad infrastructure. Right. They have adsense. They have thousands of people out there already that just sell ads that work with. So they have all the customer relationships. There's very few businesses on earth that spend money on advertising and don't spend money with Google. Speaking of ads, here's an ad for Adio, the AI native CRM. Adio builds scales and grows your company to the next level. And also, Also on the ChatGPT ads topic, Sean Frank says that a ChatGPT referred session to his site Ridge.com converts at 12% and is worth $5 per visitor, the highest I've ever seen. For context, there's, there's plenty of e commerce brands who have like a 1.2% conversion rate. Yes. And they're trying to improve it by, you know, they're constantly trying to improve that, but they're, there's very notable that it's such a, such a massive difference in conversion rate. It just shows the level of intent that somebody has. When they're coming from ChatGPT, they've done a bunch of product research. Most likely they've looked at options. They're landing on the Ridge site basically ready to pull out a wallet. A wallet? Well, they don't have one digital wallet and purchase. Pull out a credit card from a loose collection of, of receipts and cards and cash they've been carrying in their pockets. Because they need a wallet, because they don't have one. That's what's going on. Joe Weizen. Brother Joe Sergio Weisenberg. Congratulations to Him it was the 10 year anniversary party last night, I believe. Overnight success. We just missed it. Joe has a chart, he says, wild chart from Jim Reed at Deutsche bank showing, just showing how much OpenAI is expected to burn before turning a profit. A couple things stand out. How small the Amazon burn really was for its first eight years people, how big the Uber burn was before ultimately getting in the black. And so it's hard to see the exact numbers here in this chart. Amazon looks to be like sub a few billion dollars, sub $5 billion Spotify. The story with Amazon though was that, was that they were just basically cash flow zero for a long time when they couldn't get 10 billion or something like that. So it was effective but I mean that's obviously way better for shareholders than hey, we're going to lose 140 billion. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. Yeah. This, this projection is factoring in Sam trying to also build Space X within Open Air. Yes, that was in the business. There's finance. Yeah. In the Journal today. Why don't, why don't you read through it? So this is a scoop from Berber Gin, one of the greatest to ever scoop. It says Open House CEO considers building or partnering with Rocket Co. OpenAI chief executive Sam Altman has explored putting together funds to either acquire or partner with a rocket company, a move that would position him to compete against Elon Musk and Elon Musk Space X. Altman reached. Out, opening up another front. Another front. Invading Russia in the winter, one might say in the winter. Don't invade. Don't invade. What is it? Starbase during the air winter, winter. You. Reached out to at least one rocket maker, stokespace in the summer and discussions picked up in the fall. According to people familiar with the talks. Among the proposals was for OpenAI to make a series of equity investments in the company and end up with a controlling stake. Such an investment would, would total billions of dollars over time. The talks are no longer active, but this happens. So now it's leaking all. Altman and OpenAI are facing market headwinds after striking hundreds of billions of dollars of deals. So first to close out the, the, the, the burn thing, when I'm looking at this original chart of like Amazon over over eight years burnt half a billion or you know, a couple billion. Then Tesla burnt more than Uber Burn more like, like, and I see OpenAI burning way more. It is striking but it actually doesn't seem, seem that crazy if we're talking about a potential really powerful monopoly. Right. If there's a really powerful monopoly like what happened with Uber? Look at the market cap of Uber, look at the market cap of Lyft and ask yourself was it worth investing $40 billion? Was it worth burning that much? Everyone will say absolutely, absolutely. And so if, if the outcome at the end of this is yep, it's going to be the front door to AI for everyone forever or for 30 years, you know, or something like that, like then it's totally worth it. On. There is a, there is a comment here that's from. That says I feel like comparing dollars spent in the 90s versus the 2000s should probably be normalized. So yeah, yeah. In other news I have more on. On this potentially. But let me tell you about public.com investing for those that take it seriously. They have multi asset investing industry leading yields in the trusted by millions. So they are opening up a second front. What's interesting is not a second front. Yeah, 10 front. It's funny that there's no. That Sam Altman is not teaming up with Jeff Bezos who has Blue Origin but lacks a really strong AI. Bet there was a little bit of. No, he has his own company now. He has his own company. Yes, but he, he's, he's not. What's it called? I would not say that Jeff Bezos has as much control over AI as Elon does with X. Right. He doesn't have as a co CEO of Project Prometheus. But this just started. This just started. Whereas XI has actually scaled, has large data centers. Sure, they might be a little bit behind on certain benchmarks. They might be ahead on some other things. They might need to, you know, actually ramp the usage of this, of this product. But you can't say that Elon is like sitting on the sidelines during the foundation model wars. Yeah, I would argue that, I would. Bezos. Yeah. I would argue that they have 6 billion of funding. Oh, for this. Yeah. Yes. It helps when, when your co CEO is started Amazon. I don't know. I would just, I would, I would see them as potentially like natural. There's a natural alliance there. Bezos has, has a copy of everything you want. Elon's done basically like Bezos has Rivian to compete with Tesla which is interesting now he's not the founder of it, but he's invested. He has Blue Origin obviously to compete with SpaceX and he has, he has a number of other. Companies that feel like they mirror Elon and it feels like they've been going back and forth. For a long time. In other news, Mets owner Steve Cohen has Officially been awarded a casino license in New York enabling him to build an $8 billion hotel and casino complex next to Citi Field. It's a thousand room luxury hotel, 5,000 slot machines. So for those not familiar. So slot machines, you can't normally do that in New York. Right? I don't think there's slots. I feel like when I think of slot machines I think of Las Vegas and I think if that's the only place and then maybe Atlantic City. Yeah, Atlantic City. I feel like you had an idea which was to somebody's estate set up a slot machine in real life, point a video camera on it and then have somebody set up prediction markets to predict what happens with the next poll. Yes. Because that would help you understand what's likely to happen and you could hedge. Any type of risk that the slot machine might involve. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, if you're in the slot. If you're in the slot, you know. Yeah. You don't want to be on the other side of that slot machine. Yeah. You get wiped out. Exactly. It's going to have restaurant bars and a theater for shows and 25 acres of public parks and playgrounds. Okay. So fun for the whole. Fun for the whole family. The kids will be climbing on. On the jungle gym and they'll accidentally be pulling all the. Imagine a jungle gym that practices. Yeah. Bandits. So you get used to the muscle memory. Throwing, throwing dice. Throwing dice. Comic maybe like comically large cards that you can. That's true. Yeah. We can make a whole casino themed playground using generative AI and use that. Joe Pompliano says Cohen is essentially taking an under monetized asset 50 acres of parking lots around the stadium and trying to transform it into a year round revenue engine that produces consistent returns independence of how the Mets perform. And with the New York State Gaming Commission predicting that the property. Predicting, predicting wink wink, wink, wink that the Property will generate 3.9 billion in annual revenue. Cohen's 50 acre complex would instantly be one of the top 10 largest US casinos by revenue. Anyways. Well let me tell you about FIN AI the number one AI agent for customer service automate the most complex customer service queries on every channel with FIN AI. We missed a post on the on the Space X competition. We did. Buco says friend dear friend of the show says overeating going to get their faces ripped off if they don't just focus, focus, focus. Equity deals and other bets will not win the great game. That feels to be the consensus was. Talking a lot about the. The Comparison to Google and tracking. When did Google monetize? Google wound up monetizing, I think sooner than ChatGPT has. They put ads in it. I think in year two, it's now. Been three years, Google was trying to figure out, effectively trying to encourage employees to do, to eat more and have more massages so that they looked less like a monopoly. Right? Maybe. But I mean Google did earn the right to, to do other bets by just so solidifying their market in the search engine world that then they could go and do Gmail and they could go and do GCP and they could go and do Waymo. But it's just like all of that happened after becoming cash flow positive. And I think that's why people have a little bit of nervous energy around going to space. Even though space data centers. And this is what I wanted to go back to in the journal was is there a world where, you know, okay, it's good to have a space data center bat. And so you need a partnership. And realistically Sam's not going to partner with Space X on it. I don't know why he's not just going by and large capacity from Blue Origin, but maybe Stoke space is the, is the better option for him. But put aside all the dynamic, all the competitive dynamics, I think it's possible. That Sam was looking at Stoke space, which most recently as of October was valued at 2 billion and he was like, I bought Johnny, I've for What was it, six? Can I absorb another $2 billion company? I mean, okay, he wants to own the full stack. Yes. Which is getting stackier and stackier every single day. You're going to need to start buying land to buy the silicon, to buy the sand. But do you think there's obviously an immense amount of pressure right now on data center build outs. They're using too much energy, they're using too much water. If you put them in space, do you think that helps the discourse at all? I think people hate rockets. So do we want. Damned if you do, damned if you. But, but, but truly it's going to be much harder to say, like hold up an electricity bill in Memphis and say, hey, my electricity bill went up and it's because of Annie over there in the data center who's just, you know, slopping it up. Instead you're going to be able to say, hey, the data center that, yeah, it's generating sometimes helpful math homework help, sometimes creative writing stuff, sometimes it's curing cancer, sometimes it's curing cancer, sometimes it's Doing weird stuff, whatever. It does a bunch of different stuff, but at least it's not increasing my power bill because it's in space and it's not an eyesore. It's not in my backyard and it's not using any water because it's up in space. You think that would help? I think it would probably, but I. Agree then the discourse will be as blocking out. But it is notable that every time the concept of a space data center hits the timeline, it goes viral for people dunking on it. And yet so many people want to. Play but they're dunking on it as a violation of the laws of physics or not. A good. Too futuristic. Too futuristic. Like it's not going to work in the near term. The economic feels right for a moonshine. I haven't seen like, like, like there, there, there are viral dunks that are going on right now around the prediction markets and those are like, those viral dunks are like this is a bad thing. I haven't seen people dunk on space data centers saying like I'm not morally okay with putting data centers in space and I think people should be more morally okay with putting, putting data centers in space. What did Sager say about prediction markets? Well, you looked that up. Let me tell you about numeral.com compliance. Handled numeral worries about sales tax and VAT compliance so you can focus on growth. What did he say? Sager said in response to a video about a prediction market. He said it's pretty simple. If you think this is cool, you're my enemy. So he is drawing, drawing lines, showing the sides. In other news, there really are like. Like active political candidates that will be in Congress in 18 months. That where this is their whole thing. The whole thing is their anti data center. And so you know, get ready, get ready to testify, brother. Anti data center and anti prediction market. Yeah, I don't know that I've seen any politicians really run on the anti prediction market thing yet. Not that it's not going to. I think it will. I think, I think there are a number of enterprising young politicians that will pick it up. Politicians of all ages that are looking at this and being like, wow, a lot of people don't like this. I should make this part of my platform. Which is less popular. We should have a prediction market to understand. Are prediction markets or data centers less popular? Yeah, I don't know. I think data centers might be less popular. I don't know. The hard, the hard because one of. The things is you can just not Participate. But with the data center, if it's in the backyard, your power goes up. Your power also it's hard for people to say, like, I don't use data centers, so I don't want them. Like, everybody in some way, sure, benefit, like is benefiting from them. It's like, okay, like pull out your phone, let me see the apps on your phone. Oh yeah, like, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't need this resource. Whereas prediction markets, there's some people that just get, they don't, they're not interested in the data even. I've seen a lot of polling, polling people that run polling firms are like very against prediction. Yeah, I saw that for obvious reasons, because it's like, hey, you're kind of open sourcing my whole, my whole thing. You're making it like you're doing a decentralized version of what I'm doing, but providing a lot of the same kind of results. In other news, this was hitting the timeline two days ago, 4 Fortune said Nvidia CFO admits the $100 billion open air megadeal still isn't signed two months after it helped fuel an AI rally. I can see why people are very. In the earnings release. So this news was. The language was in the earnings release that this deal had not been signed. And it's more at an ella why phase. They did say during the launch we have a. What was the exact wording? It was like, we have, we have direction. It was like, we basically like, this is like direct. We've directionally aligned. I think it's directionally going to happen. Or at least it makes sense as a way for Nvidia to discount chips as they're building out gigawatts and more and more gigawatts for OpenAI. It isn't like Dylan Patel laid out how the, how this particular equity investment deal can wind up, resulting in a effectively a 30% discount or something like that. So I'm not surprised if this winds up going through in one way or another. Although I do think it will need a tweak. And now might not be the perfect time for Jensen to come out and say, yes, I'm actually going to be spending a lot of money. I have to invest. I have to keep OpenAI on on Nvidia GPUs as opposed to letting him go over the TPU. Like he's sort of like fighting on defense a little bit right now because people are talking. Well, apparently it was a good time to go and show Rogan it was just another pod guy says another Jensen interview. Now I'm nervous. A lot of people were saying that this was. Somewhat bearish. I listen, there was a, there was a, there was a good excerpt here from a capital they say Jensen Huang In 2016 open air was just a bunch of people sitting in a room. Joe Rogan says they're not a nonprofit anymore. Right. Jensen says they're not a nonprofit anymore. Joe says, weird how that works. Jensen goes, yeah, yeah. Anyhow. Yeah, there, there's some wild, wild exchanges. I just liked the way I've been calling for Jensen to go on Rogan for years. I've wanted more of like the tech leaders to go on Rogan and kind of just like cross pollinate the two communities. And as I read the comments on the YouTube video, there were a lot of fans of Rogan who really were like thanking him for bringing on this guy who's working on something that's like pretty opaque in the economy. Economy, yeah, it's very abstract. I think it makes a lot of. Sense and any, and, and Jensen's coming and explaining it at one level and then Rogan's asking him to, to, you know, like, zoom out. Tell me more of your story. Why are you successful? Talks about the value of hard work. Yeah, I, I thought it was cool. I, I, I thought they had a good time together and it didn't seem like there was any like undercurrent of adversarialness. It, it felt, it felt good overall. I, I enjoyed, wasn't like you shouldn't go into it thinking you're going to get Jensen on Dwarkesh and you're just not going to get a really deep insight into Nvidia's strategy. But that's not the point of this particular interview. It's to understand who Jensen is as a human and what he's kind of like thinking of broadly for the industry. Well, before we bring in our next guest, our first guest, let me tell you about Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet. State of the art reasoning, next level vibe coding and deep multimodal understanding. We have Jim Kramer in the a. Living legend in the at the New York Stock Exchange just celebrated 30 years. He is the author of how to Make Money in Any Market. And we will bring him in. We got the book. Come on in, come on in. Welcome to the show. Good to see you.

Understanding. We have Jim Cramer in the. A living legend at the New York Stock Exchange. Just celebrated 30 years. He is the author of how to Make Money in Any Market. And we will bring him in. We got the book. Come on in. Come on in. Welcome to the show. Good to see you. It's been too long. Thank you so much. There we go. He was so ready. He was so ready. Got a hit. A clean. Clean hit. There we go. That's a hit. Okay, there's. That's fantastic. There's an injury. You guys look fabulous. I love using you. This is a great home for you. We love it. We love it. Every time we're here, we're. We're. We're enjoying it very. Thank you for having us. You're basically the. Are you the mayor? I'm more of an official greeter. I'm sort of an ambassador, so. So 20 years on mad Money. Correct. How many times? How many years in this building? How long have you been working for? About, I guess, like, four. We were in Englewood Cliffs for a long time, and we had a studio for us. It's very interesting to ask this, because now this is our studio. You can't control the sound levels of who's here, whatever. But I kind of still feel it's part of capitalism. I really do. It's a spiritual home. Yes. And I do like Wall, and I do like Broad. And I do think that there's a level of excitement, not the way it was when I got in the business in 82, when I first walked down the street. And it was an engine. It's more tourist now, taking a look at. But I still find it fascinating, the companies that come public, the companies that, you know, that I'm trying to learn about. Yeah. And it's exciting. It truly is exciting. The boat. Do you think there's an advantage to being here? Do you think there's an advantage to getting guests in person? When I think about the highlights just from this year, I think about you going to Tim Cook and touring the iPhone factory. That was a really cool moment. I also think about you beefing with. I also think about you, you know, going back and forth with Benioff remotely. Talk to me about, like, when do you want to go to a person? When do you want them to come to you? When do you. When are you okay having just a phone call? This is a fabulous question, because I waffle in this. Yeah. I did think, as I was telling you terrific people out there, that there will be more execs that just would come through, and they don't. And we were near Teterboro at the other place, and they do. I like to be out in person on the road all the time. That issue, of course, is we do three segments. There are interviews. The issue is there's no time in the day. Yeah, you're always on tv. It's hard. We wrestle with this, too, you know, like, you can go and travel to someone, make a big performance out of it. We're in Los Angeles, which is not a great place, but it's. It works. It works in many ways. But it's also odd. Like, we would assume that we're in San Francisco, or at least New York. We're in New York. Well, the funny thing. The funny thing. If you were getting started today, it's very possible that you would be walking around like one of these live streamers. Who. I know, I know, like, speed came through here at 1. You'd be walking around. You'd be on basically 24 7. You'd have your phone open, you'd be looking at the markets, and you would be able to just constantly be traveling around. But when you guys do stuff where you sense of. The other day, there was a guy who said you thought he was in a booth at that incredible reinvention. Right, Reinvent. But he was really not at the booth. But the other guy was saying, oh, yeah, he's around here somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. That's a Simon from Turbofunder. You pretend to be in the booth all of the time. But I do find that the people in general are really nice. There's a code of niceness here that's almost, like, written in. And it's so non New York, but I like it. What about when you. When you can't be perfectly nice because things just aren't going well for a CEO and maybe you. I always think back to that interview you did with Tim Cook. It was about a decade ago. They'd missed. I think they'd missed earnings and. And the stock was selling off, and you needed to ask the hard question what the. What the. What the street was saying, but you didn't want to come at him too aggressively. How do you think about that? Well, it's very funny. I often go over these with my wife, who's my partner. Okay. And I'll say, look, I want to be gracious. Does this sound gracious? No, you're killing the guy. How about I add this? She goes, oh, yeah, that's great. You're killing the guy. You're asking about his wife. I mean, I do find that what happens is the facts dictate the graciousness. And if a guy misses a quarter and says that the quarter's good, well, he's a free fire, sir. Okay. If a woman comes on and says. Look, we had a founder recently who I won't name, who said that he was making, you know, 30. He was basically selling a product for $30,000, and he was telling customers, we have so much demand, I can't support you. And then a minute later, he was like, well, we've expanded capacity so much. And I was like, well, why don't you call the people you told you didn't have capacity two days ago? You nailed them free, fired them. And it's like, I don't know. I think. I'm curious how you think about this. It's like, I would say most of the people coming on your show, you have some level of respect for what they're doing. Yes. And I think that's important. Right. If you have respect for a person, it means you're gonna be fair. Right. You're not. They're not your enemy. You're just trying to have a real conversation to understand. Well put. And then I'm sure plenty of times you've had people coming on that you got a little beef with behind the scenes. But for the most part, it's like you want to have people. You want to invite people on that you're genuinely excited to have a conversation with, even if you might be a little bearish. Might be. Might be more bullish. Well, let's talk about Benioff. I'm interviewing him tonight. The previous quarter, I did not like. Okay? And he came on like gangbusters that it was a great quarter. And that caused me to do something I don't like to do, which is interrupt mid sentence because someone's talking. And we all. We grew up thinking our mothers told us that would be rude. So now I'm into the rude element. Right? And first he thinks that the rude element is a bit of a for show. You know, it's like, oh, he's a little Broadway action. No, it was like, I'm not buying it. I'm not buying what you're selling. And then, like, in the middle of it, I thought that Mark realized, Jesus, I think Jim Cruz, big quarter. And then by the end of it, he said, wow, Kramer hates me. No, it's not. It's not. I don't hate anybody. Right. But the fact is, is that this quarter was the quarter I Was waiting. Have you had with Benioff live on the air? Probably. Oh, probably. Yeah, probably. I guess 50, 60. Yeah. But there was a period where during the. I was gonna call it the plague that I talked to him every day. Well, we were trying to develop a contest to develop the best mask and it got waylaid. But we just wanted awareness. Sure, sure, sure. We were working together on a project. But look, do I. I've identified him as a friend because he came to my. He was one of, I guess, two CEOs that came to my wedding. And there were 500 people there. Only two. That's a small club. And with 503 people, if you could just throw a stone, you hit a couple of them. Yeah. You gotta ask. I'm sorry. This is exciting. You guys are exciting. Okay? You're exciting. So you are. Genuinely. People in our world do ask us time to time. They're like, you guys are crazy. You started a business that you can't stop working on. We make the business every day, and I see it, and we tell people, do you think. You see Kramer? You don't think he loves what he does? And that's exactly what we want to do. We love that we get to meet up every day and talk about the stuff that we're interested in. And I can see doing it for decades and decades and decades. Absolutely. I mean, it's like my buddy Schefter, but in espn. Schefter couldn't stop, no matter what. I mean, every time he looks at somebody, he's thinking about, is that person gonna do a trade? Is that. What's that person thinking? But most of the people are just kind of, okay, I'm on tv. My executive producer, Regina Gilguer, always says there's two kinds of people. There's people who are on TV because they want to be on tv, and then there's people who are on TV because they have something to say. And you guys have something to say. And what I love about it is, is that you have much better BS detector. Not to be like, I know that sounds prosaic, but the fact is I'll. I'll hear that Amazon's Chip is the best in the world. From Amazon. And I'll say, maybe it's the best in the world. I mean, I'll actually, in my head, they'll be like, best in world. Best in world. But Jazzlyn, Amazon, my book came. So obviously, anything. Anything in the Chip space is. Is tough, but even harder. And I think something that maybe the east coast hasn't been quite as tapped into is determining which hard tech and deep tech companies are real. Because there's a lot of companies that are. The west coast calls them like render companies. They make really cool visual renders, cgi. Sci fi experiences, and then nothing ever comes to fruition. And so it's easier to clock those companies from the west coast because of just the whisper networks. And you might know somebody that worked at the company, you might know their investors. If a company gets to Series D and they haven't had a single tier one ever invest or participate, you know this so well. I mean, like people say, well, it was a series C, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like thinking series C. Okay. Like that was. Didn't I take that exam to be able to walk on the floor? But you have you, you speak the language and you. But you don't make it. So I can't learn the language. You, you want me, you, you want me to learn the language is terrific. I have going for me history and that's my edge. So for instance, today Micron got out of the, what I regard at the most consumer. Now I've been begging them to get out of the consumer for actually literally for 20 years. Because they have a high end and then they have the low end and the low end gives them the 10 multiple and the high end gives them the 20 mobile. And I've been talking to Sanjay, whom I really like, and it's like, I was like, sanjay, you have to like do this. And he said, jim, I don't need to do it. And so today he does it. The stock's down 12. So I text him, I said, come on. And he goes, I'm in quiet. And I'm like. And I wrote, I'm not in quiet. I think you're fabulous. But that's because I remember the 95 breakdown where what happened is that that ultimate piece of capital goods equipment came out that could make a little more than we needed for the, of the memory chips. And then it goes like that. And his stock had been number one and then 500 number one. Do you remember some of this stuff better than the CEOs and the management teams? Yeah, always. If it's the 90s. Absolutely. If it's the 90s, like for intel, when I speak with them. Yeah. I mean, look, I'm not. And there's new leadership. Yeah. But I would tell you, like, I forgot my anniversary. My wife's birthday, but I remember the September collapse in 95. Sure. But that's cause it's all wrong. I have a memory for some things and they're the wrong things. Except for when we're in here. What are they doing out there? There's your salad. It must be the twist. You guys should go light the tree at 6. Oh, we'd love to. We'd love to. The show will be wrapped up by then. Okay, so when you're wrapped up, one thing later with Benioff, you gotta, you gotta ask him about token consumption because he came out 3.5 trillion. 2 trillion. Yeah, point 2 trillion. Was it 3 or 1? I don't know. 3.2, I think. But it sounds like a big number. But it's some other companies. There was alpha sense. Somebody at alpha sense was sharing. They were sharing that they use around half the tokens. Obviously not quite. You know, Jensen wouldn't give you. Jensen wouldn't give you that rap. I mean, I remember when he did a me on when I walked in, there was me and he said, look, this was, you know, you don't know how many tokens were used. And all it really came down to, there was a show at that point. Mayor of easttown, but there's a new one called task. And all that Jensen wanted to talk about was when he was doing me, how hard that Philadelphia lilt was at the end. And Kate, Kate winslet said the same thing. This man is da Vinci. He knows acting, he knows plays, he knows, you know, he's a well rounded guy. But all he does now is like. Got good taste in jackets. But how about all the stuff he has to talk about? How have you been processing all, you know, everybody competing to say the biggest number? Right. I have a piece tonight that starts and I mentioned you guys right at the top because I'm like, we thank you. Well, no, because like I say that this is what you guys do and I don't want to do it because I can't. I can't do it like you. You don't want to aspire to be someone who's not as good as you. Hey, I came in there, you know, I'm like, I'm not as good as Jordi. What a day. Your wife doesn't want to hear that when you come in, you know, John was like, I was so embarrassed. John happened to be. No, but when you're in these situations, you don't want to be in. Well, next week, OpenAI's got a new chatgpt that's better than gemini. If you just said holy s demonize the best, you don't want to be in that world. And yet you guys know that that world is fluid. And I don't want to be in a world where suddenly. I'm going to give an example. Broadcom is a general contractor for a lot of these chips. But you know, what's the general contractors? Does that work? Does that mean that they really had a lot of say? I don't know. You guys would literally know what it means to be what Broadcom is in the chain. I, on the other hand, is saying, hey, Broadcom should go up big because of this. One is like, hey, you know what? I think that one's no line, and one is a line. Hey, you know, guess what? I think the Patriots have a better chance than. Cleveland. Well, yeah, no kidding. That's why there's a line. You guys set the line, okay? I'm money line on everything. Well, yeah, we know, we know. We know our lane too. I mean, being from the west coast and coming from a private markets background, we focus on market cap. You focus on stock price, how the stock is moving day to day. We, I think, are much more. We're much more focused on product side. What is the sound on your soundboard? Okay, what do we got? That's underrated. Oh, mine right now, I go, I happen to think. There'S a sound right at the bottom. Right. Which was from Office Depot. That was easy. That was easy. But that was when the show started. People just say, like, what was that? I don't remember that. The button. The button. But I think it's so cool. But, like, people are saying, like, what is that? Was that a chain or something? And so it's. It's become a relic, but it's a good release. Yeah, yeah. It's hard to keep the lore going. I mean, we already know this sounds. You know what this sound is? That's. That's Call of Duty. We grew up on Call of Duty. I still don't understand why he does that one. Yeah, I grew up on Pong, okay. Right? I mean, I thought Pong was incredible until Donkey Kong. Like, Donkey Kong was incredible. These things were incredible because they replaced crossword puzzles in tic tac toe. Yeah, yeah, right. Twitch. Who owns Twitch? Amazon. Amazon, of course. We gotta get Andy Jassy on. You know what? You know what I wanted to do? Post earnings on Twitch Live. You know what that is? So Mark Zuckerberg's on Instagram doing front facing videos. Get Andy Jassy on twitcherberg. No, he's got no salary cap. Right. Everyone else had this kind of soda butchering salary cat. It doesn't exist. Yeah. You thought Howie Roseman was good. No. He sucks comp Zuckerberg because he's got the salary cap. You know, you know some, some, some, something interesting on the, on the Amazon front. The train. Trainium. When they, they were talking about. Not so good. No, no. When they're talking about their new channel, they specifically, they specifically mentioned doing a training run for a company called Descartes Dean, the founder, which I only know. Because of you guys. They do, they do real time video and they're working with a lot of twitch streamers so that, that, that, that training run felt meaningful and I don't think a lot of people picked up on that. They're not something moving. That's a good example of what I would describe as why I'm. Look, I never lose sight that I'm a generalist because I wouldn't know that in the same way that I wouldn't necessarily know if we were doing steel companies whether something's cold rolled or hot rolled. Cold rollers have got a high multiple and hot rolls, you know, the steel. Steel. And so you always have to be really careful knowing. Knowing that you don't know certain things. Like I wouldn't. If there are certain specs put out on the Asic Google. I have to be very careful because when I listen to what, you know what Andy Jassy will call me. He'll school me and he'll be right to school me because I don't know. Enough who's the next Marc Benioff in the sense of a CEO that you could see yourself just enjoying interviewing. Okay, I'm going to give you crazy. I'm gonna give you a crazy one because it's gonna be. I have to make it so it's enjoying. I haven't gotten it yet. It's Levchin. Max Levchin. Here we go. You gotta talking about espresso. Espresso. Talk about coffee. He's obsessed with coffee. Yeah, we spent like 10 minutes talking about. We'll send you the clip. You're kidding. Yeah, yeah. This is cafa. And he also likes long distance biking and riding. Oh my God. But he's not carp. He doesn't want the tough thing. You got a three segment. It's hard to spend. It's hard to spend three minutes. Then you give him more time because I didn't know he. I didn't know he had that side. I know he cares passionately about Ukraine. I know that he cares passionately More importantly, about making people who, who should get credit credit in a country where you still have to care about democracy. He's, you know, I'm democratizing. I'm democratizing blue jeans. You know, I'm democratizing T shirts. No, he's democratizing capital. And why not? His. His algo is better. Yeah, I just think he's. That's the guy. I intend to be able to get him out of his. It's not a shell. I don't know what it is. What the hell. I think, I think my sense was like the conversation for us, we had 30 minutes, right? You're. You don't have the luxury of having that much time with, with some of these guests. But some, some people take a while to warm up. And that's why, that's why, that's why traditional. Sometimes. That's why traditional podcasts are so good. A bunch of pre calls, get to know someone, then hop on and even if it's a shorter segment, you can, you can do it. But that's a goal then. And the reason I want to do it is because I find him completely fascinating. He came on the show when the stock. I told him, come on the show when you think it's going to break out, will you. He's going down. Is it 33 came on the show and I said, well, I. What do you think here? And he goes, well, the stock is now done going down. It's going up. No one ever says that stock. No, they never come by. There's a stock. Oh, well, Jim, that's you that's out there. We don't know. He's up, you know, the stocks now done going down. And I say at the end of the interview, I said, that was a gutsy call. And he goes, what? I said, that is done going down because why is that gutsy? There's my guy. I love it. I love it. How do you think about. About market structure, oligopolies, monopolies? Because the real interesting side of Max Levchin and a firm is looking at Sebastian and Klarna because now there's two companies in the same space. You can comp them. It's a little horse race that feels like good content, feels like good opportunity for investors. How do you think about a market like that? All right, so I'm out of the closet, this one. So we're just going to say it here. I always tell people, look, what I'm looking for are companies that in many ways are the worst thing that could ever happen for our country. I'm looking for monopolies because. Monopolies, monopolies just, they've got. I just want big gross margins. Nothing like. Did you guys ever read Rockefeller by Chernow? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the guy at 100%. 100% of the oil market. That's my guy. And when they broke it up, they created just a huge amount of wealth. But no, I look for Minopolis. Yeah. Or I'm happy with Oligopolis, like right now. Linda Lynn Lindy, which energy company? Sure. Industrial gas and, and air products. There are, there are slap happy duopoly right now. Yeah, they should be raising prices. They're like not being duopolis, but that's, you know, it's kind of. I just always take so much away from the Uber and Lyft saga that I sort of grew up with. I mean it might be overfitting to that. Postmates. Yeah, I like Postfix. Weren't they, weren't they acquired in. Right, yeah. Bastion. Bastion's the man. Bastion is the first guy to come on and give me a hat. I said, why don't I do that? He goes, it's called swag. Well, you put it on your head. Shocker. Wait, how are you, how have you been processing Google then? Because Google. Oh my God. Okay, Got it out of Google. Get this. There was some guy, I would call him a clown, but this is a serious show from the Justice Department who convinced me that they were going to take. Put Google in the same bed that James Kahn was in the show Misery. You know, hobble him. And he said, listen, we're going to hobble him. I mean, like, you know, make it so he can't walk. Yeah, that's it. And I took him seriously. And I spoke to Google's attorney, who was of course much smarter than the Justice Department, but I believed the Justice Department. I thought that they were going to wreck the company. And they kept saying over and over again, and we're not going to let it be like Microsoft. You know, we let Microsoft off. This is not. And I got nervous and I didn't panic. But when you have the Justice Department over and over saying, listen, why are you saying these things? You don't know what's going to happen to them. And then you get a judge finds them a monopolist, like, man, I've got to get out of this thing. This is bad news. And then the judge like three months later says technology's overtaken it. Not only is it not a monopoly, but we think it's great that they paid Apple 20 billion to knock out everybody else. I was dead. I was dead. I was flat and I was roadkill. It didn't matter. Whatever I did was right. And since then, I always do is look at it and say, I'm stupid. I'm stupid, I'm stupid. Yeah, but the real, the real thing that hasn't played out yet is like what happens if we do end up with a duopoly in search, right. A lot of people, I mean in ChatGPT has 800 million reactors. It's going to have. Because they may, you know, they don't have the balance sheet. You guys, every Niall Ferguson pity war. Yeah, well, that is about whoever has the deepest bond market wins central money. I mean he's got. The bond market is better for the other guy. So yeah, this is a question for you because it felt it like I felt very comfortable covering the horse race, the foundation model race, from a technologies perspective, from venture capital perspective. But once the discussion moved to is there enough private credit? Is Blue Owl going to underwrite at these right. At these right levels? You know, we're having John from Apollo on the show. I hope he can explain it to us like little bit more. But how do you think about if a story kind of leaves your orbit, do you just bringing people on. Well, I mean, what do you think? Just trying to be generous all the time. And it's funny because I have a general show and I'm always afraid to bring the balance sheet up for people say, you know, geez, I want to see what's on the Price is Right. I mean there's like dial anywhere but that. Oh, Friends. There's friends. You know, look for old Seinfelds versus me talking about the balance sheet. Sure, sure, sure. We have to do that. But for some people out there, that's, that's their super bowl, right? They love. They love it. So look, I get a kick out of the idea that, you know, that Oracle gets involved and that Larry Ellison, who is one of the toughest guys on earth, who's never made a mistake and Safra Katz has never made a mistake, are getting involved. And then Safra leaves and the FTSE says she leaves because she doesn't want what's happening to the balance sheet, her precious balance sheet of Oracle, which is not that good begin with. So that's a good story for me because Larry has. Larry, did you know him? No, he's never been on the show. He follows tvpn. He does, he does. He followed. He followed very early. But what Was your relationship like with Larry? Did he. Come on, did he, Larry? No, no, never. He doesn't do a lot and like I've tried repeatedly get on my knees. I mean he doesn't do a lot of media. I think he might talk about like University of Michigan. Michigan. Okay. Do you think that Mark Cuban, he's been on your show. Do you think he's the reason why Indiana is such a good football team? Oh, I have no idea. We have no idea. People have used the ESPN of tech on us. But it's funny because maybe I genuinely watch. Yeah, I've watched like an hour of sports in the last year. What do you read into the CO CEOs when you see something like COO? Yeah, I mean having an Oracle. Where's my. Yeah, here we go. No, I co CEO interim, basically. Yeah. It's just really hard. This is happening in Sequoia Capital now and that's obviously a big focus of ours. Benioff was co CEO with Keith Block. That was just suboptimal situation. Yeah, we got the CO CEOs now at Oracle. Let's see what happens. Netflix is done. I think it's hard unless you can have really defined duties like they had at workday and, but, but otherwise, no, it's not something I really want, want to see. Yeah. How are you feeling about, how are you feeling about the IPO market? I think it's, it's too robust. We're seeing a lot of junk. We're seeing a lot of biotech, by the way, which is why the biotech instrument companies are doing well. But a lot of these are one trick ponies and that's really dangerous. I Look, I don't want to protect anybody from investing in anything because everybody has a right to invest in everybody. Well, you know, if you want to do a uranium company right now, a company which just says. And all it does is say we will find uranium and you use a really funny symbol like you know, five use instead of four. I mean, look at it. You know, you price at 15, it opens at 24, and then you wait six months and you sell every share. And that's what I'm afraid of. Yeah, that's. Are the biotech companies taking advantage of the AI narrative or is there a particularly different narrative? No, I think there's just been a lot of. I shouldn't say. There's been starting to bubble up in tech in Silicon Valley, folks saying, hey, in the future drug discovery is going to be accelerated. The timeline is going to be way shorter. It's going to be. The economics going to be completely different. But this, the big companies are just, they're just sales companies because when you go to the unbelievably cool great person who does health care, you know, video, say that person doesn't. Yeah, they're not, you know, Bristol Mars. It's not those guys. It's not those guys. And it really bothers me because if you're going to accelerate what's going on with cancer, okay. So that you can do, you know, look at every single data point and know everything within, within five minutes you should be able to come up with the holy grail drug blood test. They're getting a blood test for prostate cancer. So a guy down here saying that today he's going to become public hope, but they should be using it and we should be making far more progress than we're doing in health care. It's just, you know, when Jensen came on with, with synopsis, I mean, it's pretty clear they're doing the digital. Doing the digital twin, by the way, you know, I thought the digital twin would have been good with, with Vision, with Vision Pro, but I guess relic. Yeah, but I do think that that's the missing link and I think if anybody does it, it's going to be Lilly and Dave Ricks because he can get outside himself and think about some ideas. Yeah, I like him a lot. You do? Has he been on the show? No, not yet. But he hit a trillion dollars. We ran the gong. No, I'm sure you rang the gong for him because he hit a trillion dollar valuation. Yeah. Wasn't that great? It was fantastic. Walmart's at 900. That guy, Walmart. That guy, Doug McMillan. The guy's retiring. I mean, he cratered the stock when he came in, gave huge bonuses. You want to crater it when you leave? I mean, you want to crater it when you leave. Have you been to Walmart lately? There's an interesting, there's an interesting bull case for Walmart is that they are leaning in with ChatGPT. Well, Amazon's leaning out. And so if the agent commerce thing happens and people are just opening up their phone and saying, hey, order it will probably be routed through Walmart in the short term. Really? Yeah. So Etsy will have to respond and do a partnership. Etsy and Walmart have leaned in. Ebay and Amazon have leaned out. Wow. And that's a good quarter. Etsy had a bad quarter. Amazon, we know. What do you think? And so it's the laggards in the markets. That are, that are trying to catch up by saying, hey, they're taking it back. Maybe we missed the, you know, the real power law. I thought it was interesting. In Costco's deep into Agent Force. Do you think Mark's going to rename the company Agent Force? That's my first question to him. Look at all the different silos. Go to the page 18 on the deck and there it is. 17. Everything's Asian, you know, all the different sizes now, all called Asian. But the thing is, he's still hiring salespeople like crazy. Do you think Mark Zuckerberg is going to rename Meta? Did you see the rumor today that. He'S just gonna call it a rename? My whole thing is, I think it's actually, I think it's a good name. It actually is the Metaverse. If people spend so many hours in it, it doesn't matter that it's not in goggles, they're spending it on their phone, they're on their computer. It doesn't. It doesn't matter that it's not in a heads up display yet. It is. It's a universe with multiple touch points. It's like they even adapted the app so it is messy messaging. Focus. It's not even like it's hard to post content on Instagram now. That's my metaphorical universe. Maybe with Vera Rubin they can do high speed video, short 10 second clip for an ad or an Insta. Yeah, and that might work. I mean, right now I would put it in Reddit. I don't know. Have you seen the race for Reddit? The rate card? No, it's like a fraction and it's very targeted and it's really good. Reddit ads. Reddit ads are the cheapest bar bargain for any consumer package. Because you're right, targeted. Like my wife has this mezcal business. Boom, there's like a mezcal lovey. Mezcal love. You know, he's like, love it. Melanomi. My daughter's on. Unfortunately, she beat it. But yeah, that's like, that's targeted. Targeted target, sure. I really like that because the rates. I told Huffman he's charging too little. Isn't he making much money from selling data? Isn't he making a lot of money from selling data? Yes, he is. And then cloudflare's doing their best to be able to block. But you did cloud flare. You did the implications of, of their failure. See down there? Did Matthew not. Don't call me Matt. Did he call you? He. He came Matthew came up once, right. Was he good? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know he's great. He's real smart. Yeah. We should talk about like who's like a really good guess and who's bad and we won't mention the name of the bad. We'll just say the good, you know. Oh yeah. That guy. Team that you got to have on. You got to have the semi analysis team on the piece was too long. The one that you told me to read the 10,000 word. Yeah. I was like, oh my God, look at that. Look what's coming. I got to go watch it. Dylan will always call in. He'll be at some data center usually outside in the back of a pickup truck. He'll call in and he's. He's absolutely. The whole team there is absolutely fantastic. They are. They're very good. They're really. I trust them implicitly for when you have something like. And Jensen. Look at these two, you know. Have you met Eric Lyman yet? Going after. We got John Fantastic. 26 ramp. That's. Isn't that doing a C rally? 26 ramp. You're gonna be here any day. Oh, and then what? What should I say if I want to say if I want to impress people about how far along I am or should I say I just hit myself at what series E. Series E. Probably. Are going six series G. Series F. People go really deep down because people don't down rounds bad. People don't like. People don't like going public. It's a hassle. They don't want to deal with the sec. They don't want to deal. What do you think about if stripe stays private forever? Johnny Callison. No, people don't realize that he was the great right Johnny. He was a great right fielder for the Philadelphia Home Run 64 All Star Game to win. So what do you think if a great American company stays private forever, is that. Is that going to bring. I mean we've got Aspen, the orange trucks that cut down all the trees. They've been private forever and they're really, really rich. Yeah. You know companies. I don't know. I think if you're public you have to. There's some slings and arrows you got. To answer to you. No. You'Re more likely to get talked. About on that money. The stocks moving. Well when you have like Wells Fargo and the guy comes on and he's got this like all these flowery coats quotes at the beginning about Lombardi the buck Lombardi was always saying listen, if there's a mistake there's me. And then the first thing he says is like, you know, actually there were these employees that did it bad and, you know, don't pay attention to them. I was like, no. In your annual. You say that you're. How do you see that? How do you get people. How do you get people off your talking point? Off their talking point points? I would say, like the only. The only thing. The guests that we don't like, the guests that we don't. The worst guests are the ones that are trying to get in rescripted lines and. And just that's the only time that we don't like doing the show. I. I had one the other day. It was doing it and I made a joke and I stopped and it was just like I said, that was a joke now. And the person didn't laugh and went right over the talking points. I interviewed Jensen and he says he's doing the talking, but he's saying something. And I make a joke and he has a saying. And I said, by the way, that was a joke. I was laughing on the inside. Boom. See, that guy can do it all. He can do it all. He is just. What do you do with a guy who's lovable and you're trying to be tough. You're trying to be tough. You really want to nail him. You know, it's like, then he's just charming. Charming is the enemy. Look, talking points and charm are. Those are the, like the Solen Charybdis that we have to really avoid. Right? Funny story with Jensen. We were in D.C. and we were sitting there talking with Shane Copeland from Polymarket, who has a partnership with ice. And Jensen came in and Shane goes, hey. Hey, good to meet you. And he's like. Jensen's like, oh, what are you doing? He's like, I'm the CEO of Polymarket. And Jensen doesn't. He doesn't know it. And Shane afterwards, he's like, ah, I got to work harder. I got to work harder. That's him. He hits up at 4. He does the emails, and now he probably sets it at3.45 and checks all the things he doesn't know that are related. Up at 4, too? No, 345, but who's counting? He gets up, but who's counting? He stands off the. He's getting 15 minutes after you. I'm supposed to get up after him. Send him an email. What have you gotten done so far? Do you genetically just need less sleep? Yeah. What's going on? How is this possible? Because there's a handful. It's like some 5% of the population can just thrive on like four hours. Okay, well, here's. Okay, so. Because I'm. We're not on air. I'll tell you what. The things I take, so I take Klonopin, I take, I take melatonin and I take a gummy and I can't stay asleep. See, it has to do with staying asleep. How much more do I take? Energy. These are all like illegal substances. Substances to some degree. Now they're actually control substances. But I, I, I, that's what I do to be able to stay asleep till quarter of four. So it's more about trying to stay asleep. It's, that's what it is. As long as you can. What time it is. Oh, I went to bed seven minutes ago. I gotta, I get this picture. You have your Apple watch set up with like different alerts. Pictures of my wife. What about, what about when the markets are moving? It's wedding pictures. Making some sauce? Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Whoa. Yeah, it's my wife. Yeah. Incredible. She doesn't watch anything that I do. Drives me crazy. Tell us about the book. What was the process like? The book was about trying to get it so that people could, let's say, listen to you and say, you know what? These guys really seem to like so and so I'll go on chat, I'll go on Gemini 3. I'm going to learn about it. Maybe I own a share right now. That's struck and verboten. People feel if you, if you do more than own an index fund, you're, you know, you don't know what you're doing. I come back and say the information has never been easier to find. All these people believe only in index funds are just dogmatists. And what really you should be able to do is do index fund and do side by side or otherwise. We just think, you know what, all that information that you guys put out doesn't mean anything. And it can't be like that. We can't make people feel stupid. It's not right. If you have an observation that you think that a company that was on your show really knows what it's talking about, why can't you do the research, look at the website and buy a share? Why is that heresy? So allocation to take 10. Take 10% of your assets and invest in things that you're interested in. You know how much resistance I've gotten on this. Well, the alleged tour? Because I don't really want to Tour. But I did. Some people say, jim, you say that they people should own individual stocks. But over and over again, it's been proven that that's stupid. And I said, like I was. I worked with private wealth. I've seen people make tens of millions of dollars. So what we end up doing, we have a millionaire's lunch with Jensen every now. Firefighters, police, people who listen now, some of them were because. Because I named my dog Nvidia. Yeah, well, that's. That worked. That actually was pretty lots people got. It was dollars dollar at ninety. When was it visit? And I told. I said. They said. I told Jensen. He says, no one knows me. What's going on? So you know what? I'm like doing this stuff now he's on ro. Now he's at the top. Yeah, I got you back. I got you back. And I said, listen, I just came back from California. I got to tell you, I had this dog named Everest. No more. The dog is Nvidia. And that's why, like I keep saying, you know, there was a police officer who came to the show. He goes, look, I bought I'm a millionaire. I bought Nvidia. I said, when? He goes, when you named your dog video, I said, well, do you know really kind of what it does? He goes, well, you named your dog after. You don't name your dog after something. If you think it's a fly by night thing, boom. Right? That's an amazing story. Can I stay on forever? I wish we would. Chewing up. I think it's your people. These people. You're welcome. What's it, a zombie sweater there too? I guess so. That's Saquon Barkley, Ram investor. Why can't you. The book is how to make money 2.2 yards. Your averages. That's what he's averaging. Let's make this. Let's make this. Let's make this a regular thing. This was. Oh, I would love to. You know, honestly, you guys are. What I hope would occur. Okay. I kind of always hoped that this would occur, but I didn't know who would do it. This would occur, meaning a sophisticated show. But that didn't take yourselves too seriously. Where I could learn. And it hadn't occurred until you. Thank you. And it's almost like I always thought, what did people, they have to just make trillions. They can't stop and have some fun. And tell us things. But you came, you happened. And the fact that you happened, I. Okay, I'm going to be the only time I want to be a little immodest. I like to think that maybe in some way you happen because, like, somebody sometime you saw me. Because I think that you are. You're not 2.0. You're. You're sui generis. But I just feel like that you, that it occurred and that people. You're another reason why the Bronx, right? You're on our Mount Rushmore media. There's four of them, but you're the biggest. Why, thank you. Good luck to you guys doing what you're doing. You're just, you're just electric. There we go, right? I mean, you're. We go. All right. Go get it. Thank you so much. Coming in. Let me tell you about Linear Meet the system for modern software development. Linear streamlines work across the entire development cycle from roadmap to release. Let me also tell you about Profound get your.

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