NEWSMAX

20 years of experience like most people cannot just one shot that on day one of their career on camera. It is hard anyway. Turbo Puffer Turbo Puffer Turbo Puffer if you want serverless vector and full text search Turbo Puffer if you want something built from first principles and object storage Turbo Turbo. Puffer if you want something. Fast Turbo Puffer linear Turbo Puffer 10x cheaper Turbo Puffer Cursor Turbo Puffer Extremely scalable Turbo Puffer. It really does work. It just worms its way into your brain. Anyway, the other big get for I guess the modern.

Else has. And that's like, that's the art of the deal, if that makes sense. Also, is that a reference? Does that tell me that Amazon was more excited about the AI build out a year or two ago? They didn't pause when Satya Nadella went through that pause, or is it just Amazon's been building sort of linearly, growing, growing, growing for a decade, two decades. And so this is just more of the same, what we should have predicted from Amazon. Do you have an idea of like, is this them catching up? Is this them just maintaining their level of excitement? Well, if, I mean, how'd they wind up with this part? If you look at Oracle's like backlog announcement, they were basically saying we're gonna build AWS in like a couple years. Meanwhile, AWS has, you know, multi decade head start. And it's like, yeah, we're also that like imagine they're thinking like, we're gonna build that capacity too. And you're welcome to have your deal with Oracle, but it makes sense that Amazon can kind of beat them to the punch. Yeah, I think what Jordi said is probably more realistic of what's happened. Last year we had the pause from Microsoft. Obviously it's a big deal. But even before the pause, Microsoft at the infrastructure level was never as sophisticated from Azure versus aws. AWS is the OG all in house did everything themselves and has like a very reactive and like battle tested infrastructure. And like, hey, they're the largest logistics company in the United States. They're one of the largest logistics companies in the entire world. Before all this AI stuff, they had the biggest amount of compute and the biggest, you know, the biggest infrastructure shell and all like the whole pipeline and platform and all of this. And I think that that's the like pretty much they finally got everything turned in the right direction with a focus on more AI. And then you're seeing the results of that about a year and a half later. Like. Right. But you're, you're. While Microsoft pulled back, they pushed ahead and then now all of their long term investments are going to start to bear fruit meaningfully in 26 and 27. So that's the, I think that that's the simplistic way to think about it. When I work, when I talk to and I work with people who have worked with, let's say, and this is like from the before times, you know, before GPUs. The difference between AWS and Azure is like, you know, junior varsity, varsity. Like they're a totally different league. And I think that that's. And you don't bet against AWS's infrastructure like execution there. We've seen almost. Oracle is a perfect example. Dude, it's been delay after delay after delay. These timelines are starting to be pushed out. And we think that that's going to become more than just trying to find power. It's just like converting that power into a powered shell seems to have a real execution risk. And I think Amazon is more money. Good. From that perspective, how did you process the aws? Like direct pipe to gcp.

Crazier. I disagree. Can I give one book recommendation and then we'll talk about 26. Okay. Only one? No, I'm gonna give you three. So I think, I think Dan Wang's book Breakneck on China in the US was really good. It's worth reading. It's like a little stylized, but I think like really substantive actually just good storytelling I suppose. There's a book on Imbruvica. Like I think a lot of people are suddenly like interested in biotech. Okay. I'm not saying that's bad. I think biotech is amazing and it will get a lot more impactful and like more efficient. But the book is called. I think it's called For Blood and Money. But it's about. Great title. Yeah, I'm interested. Yeah, no, it's sexy. I think it's. Doesn't sound like a textbook. As hot as an interesting as a book can be about a non technical founder of a breakout leukemia drug. Like this is worth reading. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. And then if anybody. Okay. I mean this is a lot of tech nerds in this audience. So if anybody hasn't read Masters of Doom, okay. This is a story of like the like the Carmack best era of the video game industry. Carmack worth reading. All right. These are great. Masters of Doom is great. Okay. Actually I have one more niche one. There's also the Prince of Persia book by Striped Press. That's a good one in that Masters of Doom. No, I haven't read it. Now I'm excited. That's sort of like similar, similar theme. Okay, I'm gonna screw up this title. Cause it's speaking of storytelling. I mean the story of a individual video game is particularly great because it's a tec. But it's always hard to tell the story of a full tech company that just keeps going and going and going. And the video game companies, they do. But you can also tell just the story of that one game. Yeah. Like it's this multi year project. Exactly. Whereas no one's like oh yeah, we needed to talk about like you know, the story of Figma in 2018 specifically. Like it's like this whole. It's such a broader arc. Yeah. Anyway, other book recommendations. Are we going 26 predictions. Okay. Maybe last niche one that we could do the rest of the episode this way. The. There's a book I'm really interested in like what environments make for good ideas. Right. And like consistently good ideas. Because part of like extreme growth mentality is you think environment matters. Like ah, how do we, like, help people create the environment where they're doing their best work? There is a book called Apprentice to Genius, and it's about a series of researchers at NIH and Johns Hopkins that had, like, just huge contributions to biology, chemistry, science for a while. Like, way more than you should have in just a small lab over, like, decades. Yeah. And was it the feng shui of the building or something? What about the environment? Obviously, like the academic, I think, environment. Yeah. I think it's a. I think even. A couple key people that were kind of, like, around during that period. It is definitely about a couple key people. But the question is, like, how come their students also are, like, Nobel Prize winners? Right. Because it's hard to imbue the next person with, like, magical creativity. Go win a Nobel Prize. Here's the playbook. Yeah, but, like, three times in a row, man. And so I think just look at this deck. Study this deck. Study this Figma file for an hour and you'll be. It's actually an online course now. Yeah. Nobel Prize. It's available for a thousand dollars for a grand with Klarna payments attached. How did I get this? Lambo? I won a Nobel Prize, and then I sold a course on how to. Win a Nobel Prize. The course is $9.99.

Like I know every single thing that's going on inside ramp because I get a minute or two minute update every week from David. And if you listen to my RAMP ads, it's not like this is, you know, it's just corporate cards. It's not the same every time. You're digging into different pieces. It's not that it's not the same every time because I think actually repetition is persuasive. So I have three or four versions and I repeat them over and over again. But RAMP and I, as you guys know, have a multi year partnership. But his point was just like more than a partnership.

Back on it potentially, or agree with it. So I have a question. Wait, tell me now, and then let me do it. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. Let's say I have, like, a billion dollar fund. I'm gonna put $100 million in 10 of these Neo Labs. $100 million each. They're all gonna go and try different ideas. And my thinking is 10% chance one of them goes really, really big. But I'm also underwriting these on talent acquisitions. And I say that, hey, I'm not gonna lose money on basically any of these. Even though I'm paying crazy prices at seed for just a couple people with barely an idea, I'm gonna get a lot of money out because the big hyperscalers are gonna continue to acquire. Are you telling me I think that party's over, or do you think, no, there's gonna be an endless stream of billion dollar acquisitions coming out of the hyperscalers. Yeah, it's like shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land in. In Satya's arms. Yes. Is that true? I do think that is part of the calculus that's happening here, where the distribution of outcomes is, like, without naming names. But how many people want to hire Ilya or Mira Moradi or Barrett or any of these folks that have started new labs? Like, a lot of people that could have that think that winning an AI race is very valuable to them. Yeah. Yeah. So. So. So you think that the. The hyperscalers definitely aren't, like, exhausted of these, like, lab tuck ins. Lab tuck ins. The actual. And I think my point of view is like, as long as you have a bunch of people spending something in the range of $100 billion a year, and they believe that by spending a billion dollars to acquire a team, that they can make that money go further, there's a good chance that they will. It's always been if there's. If there's. Again, if there's like a pullback and new information, then you start to run the calculus of, like, well, we're actually cutting spend and we've figured out what we need to figure out. And just adding five new smart people to the team is not going to give us that much of an edge in this market. Yeah, I think this is exactly right. Where one of the craziest reframings of this, to me, made by somebody at a large lab with a lot of money to spend, is like, just imagine Jordi as a researcher and his GPU budget for experimentation is $100 million personally, right. And I have to give that to him all the time. Right? So he works four years to get $400 million. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Otherwise you start looking around, you say yeah somewhere else. Well, and the question is, well, then, how much am I willing to pay for Jordi or the talent that is 1% better, 10% more likely to make the thing work? Actually, A lot of money. A lot of money. Right. Because, like, the way the. I'm not saying that you should start your growth fund with this risk calculus. It takes a, you know, certain strength of gut. Right. But it's. It's not irrational to be like, these players have already committed to spend X billion dollars of compute over the next years, and they will look at the people as leverage on that compute. Totally. And so, like, I don't. I mean, lots of things can happen in the macro and people can change their minds. And some of these contracts are on performance, right? Like, they're not, like, fully solid. But the way it looks now, I'd be like, I think people are going to keep spending money here, so you're probably safe with your fund. Amazing. No financial advice. If the fund pans out, I'm going big on Christmas. What should I give to all of the founders in my port?

Like, the actual facts of the situation are not that great. Yeah, this is so true for me. So the version of it is, at some point I actually thought I wanted to be a writer. Like, thank God I'm not. I find writing incredibly painful, but I still have to write every week for my work as an investor. Like memos, LP updates. Yeah, yeah, mostly memos. And like, the problem is writing is thinking right. Storytelling is thinking right. How do I actually communicate the strategy of the business and do I believe in it? And the difference between, like, I'm procrastinating, I'm avoiding writing this memo for six days in a row because I got to talk to my partners about it, is I actually understand the strategy of the company or I don't. And sometimes it's because, like, I just don't know enough. Right. We make our first defense investment and I'm like, well, I need to call like 45 people to understand what I don't understand about this yet in terms of the procurement process or whatever else. How important is electronic warfare? Like, how quickly is this cycle going to go? But some part isn't knowledge. It's just like, does it make sense at all? And I have learned to trust that signal of like, well, if I'm not missing information and it's still like, not super cohesive, it's not. Cause I'm an idiot. Because I have to go tell this story to recruits and to the media and to the next investor. And if it's hard, they're not gonna get it either. Right. And so I think there's substance in that. Yeah, I think part of the at least backlash or virality around the idea of still.

But I don't think that anyone's questioning whether really large companies will be rated today. Yeah. What about the overall venture, the venture, like the, the amount of dollars flowing into venture funds right now. I'm sure you have a view and you have a couple data points. There's this chart that looks incredibly bearish. It looks like it's completely over venture capital. And yet that doesn't match with anything I've feeling because there's huge rounds happening. I mean, I guess it doesn't count as venture capital, but OpenAI is raising 10 billion from Amazon. Like there's big deals getting done, but for some reason there's a chart that shows venture dollars going down. How did you process? Did you see that chart? Did you process? Of course. The same way I did. Walk me through your interpretation of that. What's going on? Yeah, I think you're spot on on the vibes. It didn't, it didn't totally match what it feels like the game on the field is. I do think there's probably, you know, it's definitely harder for emerging managers or first time funds. And so it doesn't surprise me that the overall count of funds was, was down a bit. But like, you know, a lot of that data can be skewed by some pretty outlier large funds that were raised in kind of 2021 as well as the fact that those funds in 21 were deployed in like you know, 612 months or something. Right. And so I think actually maybe we're back to slightly more normal fund deployment basis. Yeah. And then do you think there's also a shift over the last few years to.

Sa. Sam. Sa. To shape a future. To shape a future. We came to feel the future. Sam. Ho, ho, ho. Merry christmas. You're watching TVPN. Today is Wednesday, December 17, 2020. I see multiple journalists on the horizon. Six days till Christmas, baby. We're live from the TVPN Ultradome. The temple of technology. The fortress of finance. The capital of capital. It's Christmas. The north pole of net income. The. I don't know. I don't have any more. Ramp time is money save. Both easy use corporate cards, bill pay accounting and a whole lot more all in one place. We're mixing it up today. Foot ramp under the Christmas tree. The elf today. Jordy's the elf today. We're tracking. Hitting it. That doesn't really work. Whoa. Okay. Stockings are hung on the gong with care. We're back. Good to see everyone. Welcome back to the show. We have a great show for everyone today. We have Sarah Guo joining us in the TVPN ultradome. We also have Doug o' Laughlin from Semianalysis hopping on to hopefully break down the Amazon OpenAI deal. That is big news. I was talking about this with some friends about SpaceX is potentially going out, going to Hoover up 30 billion of capital. They're going. They're going out at 1.5 trillion. They're talking to bankers now. They're going to hoover up all the capital they're hoovering. The public market's going to be tapped out. Right. Well, Sam Altman would like a word with Andy Jassy and he says I need 10 billion. And Andy says sure, as long as you buy a bunch of trainium chips. That's basically the story we will get into that. We'll dig. Yeah. Isn't it like mostly or all credits? We will see. We will see. But first I wanted to dig into a little bit more. We touched on. Wait, don't forget. We also have Logan and Google coming on to talk about Gemini Flash, the new model they released today. We also have David Senra joining at the end of the show just to hang out. What are the odds that David Senro will be in a more elaborate Santa Claus costume than me? 0 I hate to say it. We'll give him this hat. He can have this hat. Anyway, so closing out the story with the Ford F150. Of course this broke earlier this week. The CEO of Ford did a round of press interviews talking about the news, which is that Ford, the historic automaker, is killing the F150 Lightning. Their electric truck sales fell 72% year over year, of course, that is a 72% decrease, specifically in last month, which is post EV tax credit going away. And the whole project was a money pit. So they took a $19.5 billion charge, and now they're shifting strategies. So, I mean, the first question that I was sort of toying with, that we've been debating, is, did truck buy really want to go electric? Was that even. Was that ever a good idea? Because it always seemed like, who's the last person that's going to buy an electric car? The truck buyer. Right. So one thing that I was thinking about is I feel like the cybertruck probably got truck buyers to, like, traditional truck buyers to go electric. But it wasn't because it was electric. It was because it looked electric. Yeah. Like, it looks crazy. It looks wild. Completely agree with this. And so, yeah, there's this weird thing where, like, the F150 silhouette is iconic. But you should have forgot I had. Yeah, he has forgot I had my. My elf ears on. But, yeah, I mean, there's just like. I mean, ballpark. How many. How many ads. How many billions of dollars have been spent on ads that associate trucks with, like, being a. Being a cool dude. Guy. Dude. You know, guys being dude driving through the mud. And a big part of that is the engine, and a big part of that is the actual exhaust coming out of the back, like, rolling. All that advertising worked on me. Like, I grew up in a Toyota family. We only had Toyotas growing up. It's truck. We at one point had two Priuses. Right? Yeah. But as soon as I was an adult and I could afford it, I bought a Ford Raptor. It was black on black on black on black. It was lifted. I just wanted the truck that I was. That. That was advertised to me as a kid. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, I realized quickly, like, it's very difficult to. To. To park. It was so loud in the cabin that it didn't make sense for a lot of reasons. But. But I. But I wanted that truck since I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah. And a $750 tax credit probably wouldn't be enough to pull you off the. The Raptor, if that's what you've been programmed from a young age. 7,570. $500 EV tax credit. That's probably not enough to pull you away from. Okay. I've been watching the super bowl, and every year at the Super Bowl, I see truck ads with big, loud engines. And they've been marketing this to me for decades. And yes, EVs. It's very logical. There's a lot of cool benefits. I mean the Ford F150 Lightning had crazy stuff. You'd open up the front. It just had four household power outlets. So you just have like a full, you could have a full like tailgate. There was a 220 volt. You could power a washing machine on it. You could just like pull up with a washing machine and just do your laundry, I guess. Also, big part of big, big problem with trucks, I'm sure you experience this is that you don't have anywhere to store anything if you. Because if you put it in the back, it could just get taken. You have to lock it down if you put something in the back. So if you have like. I think, I think, I think most people that are buying trucks for a daily are getting a cover over the bed. Yeah, locking cover potentially. But then you're in this like weird half and half instead. The F150 Lightning, there was a front trunk that was actually very large and it had outlets in there too. And there were a bunch of features and they really went crazy with the features. But like, ultimately it wasn't really enough. And there was some interesting, there was some interesting data that Ford was sharing that they were framing as positive when the F150 Lightning launched. But I think in retrospect might have actually been sort of a canary in the coal mine. Totally. So the first stat was that of the people that reserved the F150 Lightning, 50% had never owned a truck before. So they're new to trucks. And then 75% of the reservation holders had never owned a Ford before. And so Ford was celebrating this. It's like, we did it. We did it with hamx. We did it. New Hero product. New hero products. It's gonna bring new people into the Ford ecosystem. It's gonna bring new people into the truck ecosystem. We are expanding the market. And in hindsight, what it feels like is the truck buyers didn't want it, the board buyers didn't want it. And they're the two biggest markets. And so yes, there were a class of people that were like, oh, I would always, I've always. An electric truck. That sounds really interesting. I love the idea of a 220 volt. I'm a unique purchaser. And they're like, this is a niche product. And they go hard for the niche product. They show up immediately and they'll do it no matter what. And you wrote in the newsletter the first electric truck was the Rivian Yeah, well, that had only launched a few. Months, six months earlier. Yeah. So the Rivian came out in September of 2021. That's the R1T. Ford shipped in April of 2022. That's actually very impressive to me. I was very impressed with how fast Ford was able to respond to the idea of electric trucks happening. Because electric cars have been around for a really long time. Yeah. But there was always this like, is it ever going to happen with trucks? And then all of a sudden it was like, it's happening this year and you need big company, you need to respond within six months. Like big companies are typically not that good at responding. Usually it's like, oh, we'll let the startup, we'll let this Rivian company show up, we'll let them ship, see how they do and then we'll move. Like a lot of big companies, like being second movers, this feels like they were like, no, we're moving in the first wave, they did successfully. A lot of that's because they built off of the F150 platform. They were able to reuse a lot of equipment there and the supply chain, but ultimately they didn't ship a product that delivered at the level of the R1T. So Doug DeMuro, friend of the show, former guest, gave the R1T a 73, which is a very, very good score. It actually earned Doug's car of the year or vehicle of the Year. The next year, Rivian runs it back again, wins car of the year again with the R1s, with the SUV. And so Rivian has two back to back car of the year with Doug Demuro. But the R1t gets a 73. So that's the benchmark for where you should be if you're competing with them. And Rivian doesn't break out sales, which is super annoying. I really want to understand this, but my guess is that not over 90% of their sales are the SUV. I agree. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. And that is generally just because of the popularity of SUVs among the cohort of people that are going to buy an ev. Exactly. And it. And the car just looks fantastic. I think that's underrated. Like, people critiqued the headlights early on. You didn't really like the headlights, but the car, the silhouette is just amazing. It feels like a 21st century, very, very modern, Very kind of modern take on a Range Rover. Right. And it has the same capacity. Yep, yep. And so. So the R1T got a 73 dug score. The Lightning only got a 65 so on day one, even with all the features, even with all the heritage, even with good pricing and time to market and all this stuff still couldn't actually be a step forward. And I think it tied the Raptor, but lost on some of the weekend categories, obviously, because Doug likes to drive these cars for fun on the weekend. But people wound up obviously buying some of them. I've seen some of them around. But my question was, how much does the iconic silhouette help or hurt the lightning? Because you would imagine that there's so much value in the F150 silhouette. That would be a huge advantage that you're driving something that looks like the classic Canonical truck. But at the same time, if you see those Rivian headlights, you know that that person's driving electric truck. And that's maybe more of a signal, more of a more. More badge value there. It is just crazy. Reflecting on how, you know, the way you're talking about the Rivian silhouette. Looking good. I was thinking the Rivian name. Do you like the Rivian name? I think it's. I think it's fine. It's weird. It sticks out to me. It was also weird when I'm neutral on. Was weird. When it first stuck out, it sounded like something that came from, like, a brainstorming session at a pharmaceutical company, you know, because it's like this weird. Like, what does the name actually mean? I guess it means river and Indian kind of portmanteau. But so the reason. So. But it's really grown upon itself as a blend of syllables from the river, symbolizing adventure and connection to nature. Like, I always looked at Rivian as something like the. The whole foods of cars. Right. Like the REI of cars. Right. It's like people go to rei. Like, the average person going into REI is not necessarily, like, buying gear for the most rugged adventure. Like, they might be buying gear for their backyard or, like, going on a hike that weekend. And again, like, I feel like the Rivian cars, again, I mean, we had the CEO on, but, like, have that range where it's like. It really is just like a good daily. Yeah, but they've built it. It's super powerful. It's very capable. Well, if you were to daily a Rivian R1s, let's say. Oh, by the way, just to close out the Ford F150 thing, Ford's plan is to pivot. I will tell you what they're going to pivot to after I tell you about Linear, the system for modern software development. Linear streamlines work across the entire development Cycle from roadmap to release. So they are going to be pivoting to hybrid, hybrid trucks and hybrid designs. But what's interesting is that it's one of those, it's this extra long range hybrid where you have an electric powertrain that is charged by a gas motor and so you can get like 700 miles of range. I saw someone demo one of these in China and it felt like one of those like crazy, like, okay, is it just a gimmick like the jumping car or is this a really interesting like value prop because you could fill up once you have all the towing power, like you have the energy when you need it, but then also you, you don't have any of the ranging range anxiety of the electric car ownership, which is still a little bit real. Magnus is a little triggered. Rivian is terrible. Stop talking about it. Oh, he doesn't like it. Ever bought. What was bad about it? Tell us the details. Give us the details. I've only heard good stuff. I don't know. Interesting. We'll have to dig into it. Anyway, let me tell you about Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet. There's an update today. State of the art reasoning, next level vibe coding and deep multimodal understanding. So here's a question, here's something that people don't like about Rivians. They don't have CarPlay. Is that a deal breaker for you? Do you like Apple CarPlay? I think it's solid. The thing that I find annoying is car, like the fact that there's no. The cars that I've owned are all defaulting back to the, the actual operating system. Oh really? What do you mean? They're defaulting? So in I have two Mercedes, they have like the regular Mercedes operating system. And then like carplay. Carplay is layered on top. Yeah. But I still find myself like turning on the car sometimes and it's the stock system. So I just wish there was a single operating system. I wish, I mean, so Apple's trying to do this because I've noticed but. The manufacturers are like, well, we sell the Android and we don't want you to control us forever through some type of like new blue bubble scenario. Totally. So I've noticed this weird thing where there are a set of buttons that I can use to interact with CarPlay. So like changing the song is a button that's mapped to my steering wheel in this Cadillac and if I push the button it will go to CarPlay and say play the next track on Spotify. Great experience. But If I'm turning the volume dial, the volume exists at the car operating system level and that overrides CarPlay. And so then all of the buttons in the car are in like, okay, we're now elevating to the volume knob ui. And so if you push a button, you're not clicking on the actual screen anymore, you're clicking on the volume overlay. And it's very weird. Think about how it be insane if you're on a, a Mac and it was like running two operating systems at the same time. The difference of being in a car is like you're in a moving vehicle that's thousands of pounds. And so it's really. I do think we'll look back at this kind of era being like, okay, well what were we doing? Yes. So let me tell you about Cognition, the team behind the AI software engineer Devin. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. But so Apple's trying to solve this their way. Apple's saying, hey, let us take over everything, including you can let the fox. Let the fox into the henhouse. We can be trusted. We're a good fox. Yes. And so they will do, we'll handle the volume, we'll handle the speedometer, and we will do all of that in Apple CarPlay plus or something and it'll take the whole screen. And that seems great. That seems like a solution to a lot of the problems that we've identified. Rivian's gone the other way. Said no Apple CarPlay. He was on Ben Thompson's show on Sirtechery and Ben asked him about this. So Ben said, why is there no carplay in Rivian's? RJ says, the CEO of Rivian says it's a good question. We get asked a lot. We're very convicted at this point. We believe that the aggregation of applications and the experience, and importantly now with AI acting as a web, that's integrating all these different applications into a singular experience where you can talk to the car and ask for things and where it has knowledge of the state of the health of the vehicle, the state of the charge distance, outside temperature, everything becomes much more seamless in time. If the vehicle is its own singular ecosystem versus having a window within the vehicle that's into another ecosystem. Ben says, and that's the issue. Just the implementation effort on your side. Or is that the issue? Or is it implementation on your side? Or is it that customers are actually short circuiting themselves? RJ says, we could turn on CarPlay really quickly, but then you end up. With I Think I know why he's doing this. It wants the consumer to be able to say Rivian. Get me the fastest production car lap record at Laguna Seca. And it just does it. And it just does it. It just does it self driving. Right. So he basically doubles down. He says, you know, in the age of AI you'll be able to say Rivian. Tell me what's on my schedule for later today and it will go talk to Google Calendar, pull that information and maybe you get stuck in an Apple ecosystem a little bit more. It still feels like a lot of duplicate work where over the long term Android Auto and CarPlay will be compounding and adding more features and they should outrun the individual car companies. Ben actually asks, is this a bit where Tesla covered for you? Because they don't have CarPlay either, but now there's a rumor that they might add it and it might make it. A little bit difficult. Is it confirmed that Tesla is going to add CarPlay? I didn't know that that was confirmed. But as of November 13, Tesla from Bloomberg. Tesla plans to feature CarPlay within a window inside its broader interface. Yeah, which is normal. So CarPlay is coming to Tesla. Will CarPlay come to Rivian? TBD. The question is, will the fart sound effect come to CarPlay? Yes, yes, for sure. 100% going to happen anyway. If you want to make a more serious soundboard, go to fall the generative media platform for developers develop and fine tune models with serverless GPUs and on demand clusters. Anyway, I think Rivian will eventually get on CarPlay. I think it's got to happen because I just think of the car as the car is not fully a device, the car is a speaker. It's not your life. It's not my life. Exactly. It's not my life. And so if I'm going on a run and I'm listening to music on headphones and then I get back from the run and I go in the car, I'd like a seamless handoff. And then I go in my house, I'd like another seamless handoff. I don't want my house to be like, oh no, we're building house OS and we don't interface with Apple, we don't play nicely with Google. I actually as a consumer I do sort of benefit from a monopoly and at least picking an ecosystem and staying into it. I mean I'm seriously considering going just. I know that the, I think the audio quality isn't that good on the Apple air, whatever the air Speakers are. I don't even know what they're. HomePods. The HomePods. But I'm thinking about just dropping those everywhere because at least it will be integrated. Whereas Sonos has just been falling behind, falling behind, falling behind. And imagine if you're in a situation where like, the Sonos situation plays out to Rivian. Like, it would be really, really unfortunate where you could be like, well, at least it still has CarPlay. Like, people will go buy retro cars or old cars and then go retrofit them with CarPlay. And then it's like, okay, yeah, like it has analog knobs and stuff. It's an old car, but at least it runs CarPlay. So I know that if I switch From Spotify to YouTube to Apple Podcasts to anywhere else where you can leave us five stars, you should. It will still continue to play. It will still continue and it'll play seamlessly because that technology will just continue to get better, regardless of what happens. Anyway, let's move on to other news, but first let me tell you about adeo, the AI native CRM. Adeo builds scales and grows your company to the next level. So the big scoop from Katie Roof. She says Amazon is in talks to invest over $10 billion in OpenAI. And so let's read through some of this, get the scoops. The valuation, three people familiar with the discussion. Yeah, the valuation be higher than 500 billion. The Amazon investment would help OpenAI afford some of the commitments it has made, some to rent servers from cloud providers, including from aws. Yeah, this is like, it's like. There's somewhat, there's some circularity, but it's not entirely. I'm fully beating the circular allegations. OpenAI last month announced it would spend 38 billion renting servers from AWS over the next seven years, making AWS one of at least five cloud providers OpenAI uses to develop AI. The deal also could help Amazon find a new customer for its Trainium AI chips, which compete with the Nvidia chips. This is kind of like a rebate. You know, it's like they, they said, hey, we're, we're going to buy 40. And they said, here, take 10 back. And we'll take a piece. Take 10 back. I mean, this is the, this is the semi analysis, like the bigger. Yeah, so the bigger 20. Bigger. Honestly, the more notable news here is that Amazon and OpenAI have discussed commerce partnership opportunities. That's very interesting. OpenAI wants to turn Chat CBT into a shopping hub and has discussed earning fees for referring customers to retailers. It isn't clear whether Amazon opening ideal would involve any arrangement related to such features in ChatGPT or AI powered shopping features that Amazon is developing. So I just look at this in the same way as like the Disney deal, which is like, hey, we're going to invest, but we're going to give you access to this thing. And I would expect that. I mean, you can imagine OpenAI has been working on getting referrals, basically getting a revenue stream from referring products out to Amazon for a really long time, right? They've done the Etsy deal, they're doing deals with Shopify. They have not done ebay notably and they have not done Amazon notably. And I think there's been some, there's just been some general hesitance to let again, let the fox into the henhouse, right? Because you can think about it like the Google search experience is like. Or sorry, sorry. Searching for products on Amazon is extremely profitable for Amazon, right? If, if consumers start just going to ChatGPT to find products on Amazon that like, Amazon needs to be really careful around that because yes, they can get a referral fee or they're getting a customer, but then they, Amazon or sorry, open. OpenAI wants them to pay them for that customer. And that's a customer that didn't just go look at a bunch of ads, right? And I do not like searching for products on Amazon because the experience is I'm just trying to find. I always use the example like paper towels, right? And it's like, it's so frustrating to search on there because I just want to buy like I'll spend 20 to $30 on this thing and then it's like three pages of like $6 versions of the product that I know are going to be terrible and a bunch of ads for those things, right? And so being able to go into ChatGPT and just say like, hey, I want to buy this item from a manufacturer or a brand that has been in business for more than 30 years, like pre ecommerce. Yeah. I want a brand that has just been making this thing well for a really long time. And so I would be defaulting to the LLM and skipping Amazon entirely. Yeah, you want to fight. You want to fight to be the aggregator. You want to like. I guarantee that although Amazon shows up on Google search results like they want people to open the app and search in the app and be the main starting point for their commerce, their entire commerce journey. And we've seen this with Shopify as well. Shopify obviously would love for the commerce journey to not start on Facebook or Meta properties instead start in the Shop app. They're working towards that. The same thing is true of Amazon. And every aggregator is acutely aware of aggregation theory and acutely aware that they should not let someone. Amazon is aggregate on top of that, apparently projecting 60 billion of advertising revenue, just growing way faster than the core retail business. They've sort of like the core retail business is probably growing at the rate of overall E commerce penetration, whereas this is just like extremely high margin, fast growing and they want to protect that. And probably bigger than what they could make off of a referral fee on top, deeper in the stack. If they're deeper down like they, if they control more of that purchase, they can probably take a higher take rate essentially. Yeah, because I imagine their margins on top of all those is very high. Well, the other side of the Amazon OpenAI deal is that the deal could also help Amazon find a new customer for its Trainium AI server chips, which compete with Nvidia AI chips that OpenAI primarily uses. Today, as part of the deal being discussed, OpenAI plans to use Trainium chips. Two of the people said the cloud deal Amazon announced with OpenAI last month only made mention of service powered by Nvidia. So, so the interesting thing here is what will they be doing with those Trainium chips? Will they have a specific model that runs on Trainium? Will they set up some sort of abstraction layer that they can run any of their models on any hardware or any asic? Basically, will you see? Or will it be like, okay, we still have GPT 4.0 workloads, let's recompile 4.0 for, for Trainium and let it just chill there. And Trainium is our pool for 4.0. Or you know what, Trainium is going to be our workhorse for imagegen or videogen and let's do our imagegen optimized for that particular stack. When we talked about Trainium initially, during the latest launch, the Wall Street Journal highlighted real time video as an interesting place where Trainium could potentially outperform. They weren't making the case, at least to the Journal, that Trainium is what you want if you're going to do the biggest and most massive training run. That was sort of the narrative that the TPU was pitching with the latest anthropic runs, but they did highlight, you know, real time video generation. And so what I'm interested in is that does Trainium get abstracted to a point where it's sort of like model agnostic or is OpenAI like the ChatGPT, the app has a whole host of models because these models are now mixtures of models and there's model routers and there's different products. Video, audio, image, deep research. Is one of those going to be on Trainium or will Trainium be like a liquid pool of compute that cuts across the entire stack? Do you have any instinct on this? Yeah, I think the abstraction thing is pretty hard. Right. Because you always hear about TPUs and how the TPU team and the Gemini team are so closely integrated. Right. All the model architecture is interlinked with the GPU architecture. Gpu. So I think it's hard to actually abstract all the way up. But it's interesting. I mean Anthropic has been like multi platform for a while now. So I'm curious how they think about this stuff. Yeah, I don't know. Good question for Doug. Yeah, maybe Doug will be able to get us up to speed. Something that's interesting. If I search on Gemini for a product on Amazon, find me the best blank on Amazon. It takes me, it says top recommendations on Amazon and then I click the link and it takes me to a Google search for that product that is a sponsored result on Amazon. So then I click who. So Amazon is paying, Amazon is paying Google to appear in search results AdWords in AdWords and then Gemini is routing basically to AdWords to get the click through there. So there's no direct integration at all. That is the odd. Google has so many odd advantages. It's cr. The fact that the Google bot just sees so much more of the Internet feels extremely important and yet I just don't know if it will be enough, if it will be enough to win in consumer in some meaningful way. What does it mean? Does it mean 50% of the value of consumer. Does it mean that they can win, come from behind defeat OpenAI Chatgpt. It feels so important and yet it also feels extremely hard to actually pass that message through. Maybe they need like a whole ad campaign around it or something. But. And also I haven't even. Did Matthew Prince over at cloudflare ever publish those results? He was saying he was asking people like, how much of the Internet do you think Google sees relative to OpenAI's web scraper like their bot? Because no one has blocked, no one's blocking the googlebot. Like you have to be insane to be like, I don't want my company showing up on, on Google. You would just never do that. But if you do, then you also show up in Gemini like that like what you just showed. Now, there are plenty of blogs and plenty of people out there who are saying, I don't want to show up in ChatGPT because my content is valuable. I'm monetizing it in a particular way. We're not talking about products. Products. On the other side, they're on profound. Get your brand mentioned in ChatGPT. Reach millions of consumers who use AI to discover new products and brands. No, but seriously, if you're a brand and you want to be mentioned everywhere, but if you're a newsletter writer or you write reviews about best Amazon products, you might not want those reviews just to get sucked into ChatGPT and anonymized. Right? So you might turn that off, but no one's turning off Google. So Google should have an advantage there. The product should be better. But it all matters on, like, how much does the consumer feel the better ness of it? Because even you can see it, even with the image releases. It's like we're into one's 99% of the way there. The other one's 99.1% of the way there. There's a benchmark that says, this one's better, but people aren't really shitting. Yeah, this one is really good at doing ornaments. Which one? Like that was that? That's the first value prop I've heard where I would switch immediately. Well, that. That was. That was like something they were pushing, yet that was something OpenAI was pushing. Yesterday was basically like, you can turn yourself into an ornament. Oh, yeah, Christmas. Trying to kick off a new. That was good meme super cycle. Near. Near is not loving this line. The. The Amazon investment would help OpenAI afford commitments, including from AWS. That's very funny. Well, liquidity is showing the gang standing around. All right, Jeff, you're up next to invest in OpenAI. OMFAO. Yeah, literally, almost all of them. Well, to be clear, I don't think Elon is. I don't think Sundar is. I don't think Zuck is okay. And I don't know. Do you know Tim Cook's partnering with Gemini? So this meme is actually slop. I'm sorry, Liquidity, I love you, but. Well, it hit. It was funny, but then as I dug in deeper. I mean, 10k likes, but it is not. It's not accurate. It's not accurate. Let me tell you about Vanta Automate compliance and security AI that powers everything from evidence collection to continuous. Continuous monitoring to security reviews and vendor risk. Amazon $10 billion investment in OpenAI in the form of AWS credits. You got Satya, Nadella. I couldn't find where 2% for Amazon. Maybe less if it's at a point above a $500 billion valuation. So Andy Jassy's getting one and a half percent of OpenAI. Sach is sitting there with over 20. He's pretty happy. Pretty happy. Looking at the screen. This is a. Oh, and this is a Gemini meme. Very funny. Well, Jared Kushner is pulling out of the Paramount bid hours after his father in law took aim at the Ellison clan, apparently. Yeah. To be clear, I don't know where Nick pulled the credits line. I haven't seen that. Which credits line? Sorry, Nick. This post before Amazon. $10 billion investment in OpenAI in the form of AWS credits. Oh, yeah, I've seen that confirmed anywhere. Yeah, yeah. It's actually not in the form of AWS credits. It's just cash and then. But it's just. It feels like credits because they do have obligations with aws. They're basically going to spend all of it. Well, no, it's like it all goes into a bank account, but it fits the narrative to be like it's in the form of AWS credits. This is a good. That is a good correction. Thank you, Jordi. Anyway, the latest news in the Paramount bid for Warner Brothers. This story that just keeps on giving is from Semaphore here. Let's see what this says in the news. In back to back salvos Tuesday, the president and his former and his family distance themselves from Paramount's hostile bid for Warner Brothers discovery. I think we know what's going on there. It's about Foghorn Leghorn. It's about Tweety Bird. Is that it? Porky Pig. It's Porky Pig. It's a rebuke to owner David Ellison's attempt to leverage relationships with the White House to close the $108 billion takeover effort. President Trump Tuesday afternoon said he had been treated far worse by the Ellison owned CBS since the family closed a deal for CBS parent Paramount, which is. So interesting because I've seen a bunch of. There's been. People have been riled up about Barry Weiss running cbs. The reason that you maybe would say that she's doing an effective job as a manager of that asset is because people are talking about CBS content in a way that I have not seen in ever. Right. Do you ever remember like maybe a couple times here you'd see something and she's, she's clipping CBS content It's like she's doing stories. It feels like it's working. Yeah. If they're. If they're. We were joking about this. I mean, no. No shade to the people that were running CBS before. But, like, what. What content was on that? Yeah, we just don't know what they were doing before. Like, it's like it didn't exist and now it exists. And you can like it or you hate it, depending on your political persuasion, but you can't deny. And I always. This is like, it's a thing. The Ellisons were like, hey, we can get a truth engine and we can help. Sure, we can help. Like, we can. Yeah, basically. Yeah. I mean. I mean, there's definitely. Like, the brand is still great. Like, CBS feels like a solid news source. So I agree with that. But the reason distribution was so far behind that people weren't talking about what was going on there. And I would say that the reason and one way to think about the value of CBS is what would it cost and how long would it take to recreate a brand like CBS probably cost? It would take you decades. I don't think you can buy it. I actually don't think you could. I think you could be Sam Altman and marshal a $50 billion fundraising round. You can't just snap your fingers and get it. And it would still take 50 years to get there. And that's the thing, is that it's not like. Like, if you. If you get 50 billion, what do you have to do? You have to go buy the legacy ip, because there's only. You can't just. You can't just. You can't snap your fingers and create a brand overnight. Like, it just takes time. So Warner Brothers sent a letter to shareholders this morning, basically saying that they're riding. They. They want to. The board of directors still wants to go with Netflix. They believe it's superior in a number of different ways. One thing that stood out to me is that Paramount has consistently. They said Paramount has consistently led WBD shareholders that its proposed transaction has a full backstop from the Ellison family. It does not and never has. Paramount's most recent proposal includes a $40 billion equity commitment for which there is no Ellison family commitment of any kind. Instead, they propose that you rely on an unknown and opaque, revocable trust for the certainty of the crucial deal funding. Despite having been told repeatedly by WBD how important a full and unconditional financing commitment from the Ellison family was, and despite their own ample resources, as well as multiple assurances from Paramount Skydance during our strategic review process that such a commitment was forthcoming. The Ellison family has chosen not to, not to backstop the Paramount Skydance offer. And a revocable trust is no replacement for a secured commitment by a controlling stockholder. The assets and liabilities of the trust are not publicly disclosed and are subject to change. So they basically like have this entity being like, yeah, we're guaranteeing it, but it's not actually them saying like they could move assets out of that trust and you know. Yeah, yeah, got it. Anyways, so strength not as strong potentially as Netflix. You know, Netflix is good for it. It's a huge company. They've already signed a deal with a massive termination clause. And, and I believe they've raised debt for this. Like they're ready to rock. So bird in the hand is worth, not too in the bush. Yeah. The other thing is Paramount has not offered to reimburse the breakup. The termination fee, it's a $2.8 billion fee. There's also financing costs that they're going to have to take that Warner Brothers would have to take on if they don't complete the debt exchange. So, yeah, at the end of the day, what are the, what do the Ellisons do at this point? Right. They've been, they've been doing deals. Right. They, they're, they've got CBS now, they've got the ufc. They're trying to build this streaming platform. And I again, going back to some of the conversations that we've had, like this entire, the entire strategy to date has been predicated on getting this Warner Brothers asset. Yeah. Yeah. And it seems like it might not happen. But game's not over. I anticipate announced the $1 trillion backlog. Think bigger, build faster. Figma helps design and development teams build great products together. Also, Avi Shifman got back to us. He answered the question. Is he leveraged up? Is he levering up to buy billboards? He says every out of home agent I've ever talked to has offered 50% reductions in price when doing a large scale campaign. Most of the inventory is actually pretty cheap if you don't focus on the most premium assets. So where haven't you seen a Friend.com billboard? The 101. You haven't seen it in the iconic places. He hasn't done the Times Square buyout. He's in the subway. Right. Like when we saw them. You always make fun of this one. There's one that's like up against the wall. I saw one, just a random bus in My hometown. It's like there's just, there's just like random places but there's so many of. The alpha and out of home in LA is there's so much traffic. Yes. That you're kind of moving slowly by some areas and you'll just see random. Stuff and so yeah, I was kind of fighting on you, fighting you on this. Like was this truly one of the greatest campaigns of the year? And hearing his extra context, it's, it's incredible. He might have unlocked some entirely new strategy of just like the go big massive billboard campaign. And I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't. If we, if we. I wouldn't be surprised if next year is the year of the copy paste the strategy for, you know, a company that has a million dollars to spend on a big campaign. Let's do an interesting billboard campaign. Maybe they have a million dollars in revenue too. Maybe. Ideally, yeah. Ideally, yes. I mean he clearly like it was, you know, he's like risk on exploring, testing new things like learning but just the core arb of like a big billboard campaign paying off. I think you gotta credit him. You gotta check in with Avi Schiffman. Did you see his other post? He said SF is over. Yes, still a beautiful place to live. Hype around LLMs has subsided. It's not an interesting place to be anymore. Why go to a hackathon? It's not like GPT4 just came out. There's nothing too interesting to discuss at a party anymore. All the big companies are too mature now. Most of what is new is just YC slop startups. If you're still in pre seed exploring stage, it's mostly too late. The directions have been positioned in. It's just a performative scene left there. Always a cycle to these things and this is fine. I've joined, I've enjoyed 2022 to 2025. I hereby declare New York the new bastion of what matters in the near future. Could not disagree more with every single, pretty much every single word in here. It is, I think this is, this is. I think Avi has shown, you know, brilliance in some ways even though many don't. But I put this up as one of the worst takes of the year. It's just like, it's literally like saying like back in. It's like saying in the early days of the Internet or in the early days of the iPhone like hey yeah, it's over. Just don't build anything. Yeah. Avi underrated reason to stay In San Francisco. First Fin AI. The company's headquartered up there. It's the number one AI agent for customer service. And I know you love AI agents. Automate the most complex customer service queries on every channel. Also, you should get in if you're bored with the hackathon. You're bored with the YC demo day. Get into shark diving. Go dive in the bay. Put on the 7 mil wetsuit, swim out to Alcatraz, take on a shark head to head and emerge victorious. I think that will really give you the sort of the glory. You'll be excited again. You will have survived a shark attack that will energize you in a way that GPT 5.2 might not be energizing you. Totally. Fighting head on with a great white shark in the San Francisco Bay. That's something you can only do in the bay area. Or who's not going to be doing that? Who's making friend.com for sharks? Right? Like a wearable pendant that a shark could use to, you know, better navigate. Maybe they're lonely out in the high seas, right. It's cold, it's dark. Yes. Maybe, you know, in between hunts, right. They're just kind of hanging out, right? Maybe. Yeah. Just having it. Having a digital companion. Why reserve digital companions for. Why reserve those just for humans? Right? Like all life. All life matter. Think bigger. The other thing I was thinking why I was saying this yesterday. Why has no one made like a telemedicine for anabolic steroids for your pets? Right? Somebody has, right? Wasn't. Isn't that a real thing? I think Tyler was saying loyal. I was saying loyal. But it's not really count though. That's. I want to see a golden retriever as a mass monster. I think that's just a rottweiler. Like I think you just get. No, but nobody. Nobody. Well so I mean you can make your like cattle really jacked, right? Yeah. That's like what sarms are. So you should just. Couldn't you just give it to your dog? You know way too much about performance enhancing drugs anyway. Yeah. Just saying the word sarms is like just, just say that you've been deep in bodybuilding form, Styler. Just say you're a day one. Put on the more plates, more dates. Well speaking of restream.com one livestream 30 plus destinations. If you want to multi stream go to restream.com before our first live in person guest gets to the TVP and ultra dump we got to open a Christmas present. But if you have breaking news. No, I wanted to talk about this Christmas present. Okay. Okay. We got a Christmas present from friend of the show, Sahil Bloom. Let's open it up. Belted up. Okay. So this is from Sawhill Bloom himself. Look at this, look at this. New brand alert. I love this. So he said, I got sick of putting things on my skin that I'd never put on my body. So I spent 18 months creating the perfect solution. The perfect solution. Wild Roman. I can smell it. Everyone says the tbp. No drum smells bad now. Smells great. This. This actually smells fantastic. So Wild Roman is 100 natural skincare for men made with grass fed tallow, cold press oils and wild botanicals. You can order today@wildroman.com. just want to give them a shout out and then. Yeah. So this is good stuff. You've been using this. I've been using this for about like two weeks. Wow. Working so far. Two weeks on Wild Roman and you look like that. Yeah, I mean I think it's been, you know, it's helped with like beard growth and just general skin clarity. You look fantastic. Yeah, you're. You're glowing. Yeah, you're really glowing from the inside out. It must be the grass fed tallow and the cold pressed oil. Or maybe it's the wild botanicals. But it's clearly. I just want to say never stop. Really, truly, never stop using this product. Yeah. Because I do not want you to go back. Never churn. I don't want you to go back. Never churn. I think you're a customer for life. Never. Never churn. Never churn from this. Anyway, back to the show. What do you think it takes to win in this category? Saw Hill's obviously an influencer, an author. He has a massive newsletter. He has 1.1 million followers on X and has an audience. But something we keep coming back to is like an audience might not be enough to truly win in a category. I think he's got to go hard on Target. This feels like a good brand to introduce Talo to the target audience. Right. This feels again, going for the set, bunch of products out the gates. This, this screams end cap to me. I, I was talking to a friend and they have a brand that does over 100 million a year. Only in Target. Yeah. They don't sell anywhere else. Yeah. And so it's just such a, such a massive channel. And so I think Sahil can probably leverage his brand to just go really hard into Target early. But I'm sure, but I'm sure he can. He can at least get some initial traction. Dtc. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The DTC thing is great just because it gets the business up and running. Kind of like, you know, iron out any of the kinks, get the supply chain going, you know, learn the obvious customer service questions. Yeah, the main, the main thing that people miss with like personality led kind of like influencer brands like this is that no matter how big your audience is, you can be Kim Kardashian. And in order to build a truly big business, you get this initial boost from your audience. But the nature of any audience is that the longer that you just advertise against it, you can saturate it. So Kim K can post like five times in the first week, but then eventually you have to go find new people that aren't necessarily getting exposure. Well, it's a fascinating, it's a fascinating question. Anyway, liquidity is having some fun with databricks. He says you're laughing. Startups are raising Series Ls instead of going public and you're laughing. Yeah, it is crazy. I was thinking about the product that databricks is offering, like a financial product that databricks is offering. So funny. The deal director who's often in the chat here says, has replied to this and said, don't be salty. VCs need to get paid too. That's it. Couldn't agree more. There is something to the fact of like if you have a growth fund with billions and billions of dollars under management and you need to park a couple hundred mil in a safe place, that's going to grow. It's not some like databricks is not like a, oh, started a year ago. AI company that might be gone or there's going to be some like, like different competitive pressure, like it's a real company is really going. The databricks. Series L looks pretty good. Trey in the chat says wait. According to Reuters, trying to reverse engineered ASML's EUV machine with the help of former ASML engineers and it's undergoing testing. That's crazy. Well, they've never done this before. That's another good question for Doug. We can get into that. I don't know. It does feel like there's a bit of a boom in lithography machines right now. We had one one founder on the show talking about it and it feels like that was for a long time thought of as unassailable. You could not build a business that was that deep in the chip supply chain. It was just too difficult. And now people are at least trying. I Don't know. Maybe they're. Maybe they're seeing. This is what I. This is what I've always said on the, like China Nvidia or just the China AI debate. It's like no matter how many chips you give China, they will never say, oh, yeah, we actually want to be dependent on foreign suppliers for this technology that's so critical to the future. We'd love to just remain dependent. It's like, no, they'll take the chips and they'll continue to innovate and copy and invest to get to parity. I can't believe we got a crossover between good skin care and databricks. But he is here on the timeline. Fahad says the real reason Brian is trying to live forever is because he was an early investor investor in databricks and is waiting for the liquidity event. Of course, there's probably plenty of times to tender your shares if you want. To, but I gotta say, Brian is looking fantastic in this new image. He looks 2025 is the best he's looked. This is a great version. This is A great. The 2023. This is the trough of disillusionment. Yeah. Trophy. Everyone's like, he looks like he's dying. This can't be good. Yeah, look at him now. I think the light is also doing a little bit of work there. Yeah, but just the general skin tone. It just feels more balanced. Balanced, yeah. That's good. Well, we mentioned Netflix before. Obviously they're trying to go for Warner Brothers, but they're going for Barstool Sports as well. Before we take you into this story, let me tell you about Julius AI, the AI data analyst that works for you. Join millions who use Julius to connect their data, ask questions and get insights in seconds. Let's actually pull up the Portnoy video. I want to pull up the Portnoy video. So Dave Portnoy, the founder of Barstool says breaking. I am proud to announce in our continuing 20 plus year evolution, we are now partnering with Netflix for exclusive video podcasts. And the way he frames this in the video is remarkable. So let's play it. Emergency press conference time. If you haven't heard the news, I'm proud to announce that Barstool has partnered with Netflix for three of our topics. Exclusive video only on Netflix starting next year. I'm talking you want to watch a video part of my take. Netflix 3. 1. Watch a video of spitting Chiclets. Netflix spit there. That's just my brain. You want to watch a video of the Ryan Rossello show where Netflix Video Audio Stay the same Video where Netflix. Netflix, Netflix. We're proud to partner one of the best in breed companies. That's what we do at Barstool. Evolve, Rotate. Evolve video next year PMT Chiclets. Ryan Rizzolo. Netflix. Netflix. Netflix. Yeah. 13 Netflix. Pause. In a 47 second video, 13 mentions founders. That's what's there out there. Founders, technology. Founders. Next time you think, oh, I need to film this cinematic. Oh, I was gonna. Yeah, that's amazing. I need to film this crazy cinema. I need it. I need a studio shot of me sitting down on a couch looking all put together. Dave is sitting there with a bunch of windows behind him that are reflecting he one shot at this video and it's way more engaging than him just being trying to be all professional. This is joke but I mean to be fair, in order to do that 20 years, 20 years of experience. Most people cannot just one shot that on day one of their career on camera. It is hard anyway. Turbo Puffer. Turbo Puffer. Turbo Puffer. If you want serverless vector and full text search. Turbo Puffer if you want something built from first principles and object storage. Turbo Puffer. Turbo Puffer. If you want something fast. Turbo Puffer. Linear Turbo Puffer. Cheaper. Turbo Puffer Cursor. Turbo Puffer. Extremely scalable Turbo Puffer. It really does work. It just worms its way into your brain. Anyway, the other big get for I guess the modern tech companies is the Oscars are moving to YouTube, which is a box. Okay, so explain the Oscars. Okay, so it's like, you know how we did the award shows for, you know, random obscure achievements? Journalist of the year. Yes. Absolute hitter of the year. It's like that, but for movies, of course. The Oscars, very cool. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences and they said they reached a deal with YouTube for exclusive rights to the show starting in 2029. So I mean, really feels like forever. But I'm sure it'll be upon us in no time, but probably the right time. But does feel particular. It hits particularly hard because it's like the whole show is about the theater. It's about the movie industry. And the movie industry is saying like, yes, yep, like, YouTube beat us. It's over. It's over. We're so back. But also it's over. Anyway, let me tell you about numeral compliance. Handled numeral worries about sales tax and VAT compliance so you can focus on growth. Okay, let's pull up this video of Vlad and then we'll bring in Our first. What is he holding? Is he holding an auction paddle or. Earlier, I showed one of the many weather contracts we offer on the platform. Here's another one. Some people have already started to realize that using prediction markets can be cheaper than conventional fire, flood, and hurricane insurance. You can just place a trade on your phone without having to deal with a traditional broker. Earlier, I showed. Give your take. I have a take. Let's break it down. So on one hand, give the funny take first. The funny take is instead of buying insurance, you just. Well, yes. Yeah. So the funny thing here is, like, instead of, you know, insurance is like, a pretty cool product. It gives you a lot of peace of mind. Pay for it once a year, pulls it out kind of automatic. You got a policy, whatever. You don't have to think about it. In this scenario, it would be like, okay, you're heading into the next month, and you're like, all right, I'm pulling up the weather charts. Like, I'm trading effectively. Will my house burn down? Will my house burn down from a fire? The other problem here is if you're betting on a fire happening in a certain area, and depending on the odds and if there's a lot of volume on it, it could very well incentivize somebody to start a fire in your. In your neighborhood. So I think, obviously, I think prediction markets are very cool in a lot of ways, but the CEOs that have been integrating prediction markets have been coming out and giving some pretty wild examples of their value. When I think that the value is that consumers want. They want these products. Experiences. Yeah, Yeah. I think that there is a world where you do wind up building a, like, an actual financial product on top of all of this. That feels a lot more normal instead of, like, the DIY version, but obviously it's very funny. Anyway, we have our next guest, Sarah Guo. Welcome to the show, and thank you for dressing up. Good to see you. Welcome. You look.

They have more to win. Yeah. Your background makes it look like you're in space. Are you developing a thesis around data centers in space or is that coming? I know you probably don't want to leak too much alpha on this particular show, but how are you thinking about it? What's the timeline? Is there going to be a space data center model for sale anytime soon? So you're talking. I'm from the space Data center team, research team, SM analysis right now on the iss. Let's go. And, and I'm saying a tracker online, Santa. Tracker online. And I'm going to be honest with you, I'm a space data center hater. You're a huge space status. I'm a, I'm a giant hater. I'm sorry, I know, I know Gavin talked about it. Gavin's really intelligent and like a very well spoken, smart individual in the space. But like guys, it is hard to train a model on Earth today, okay? It's hard enough to train a model. It'S hard to build a box and put some chips in it and plug it in. On Earth. Yeah, it's, it's. Dude, we're telling me that we have power delays on Earth. Yes. What is going to happen? Like we, you know, it's hard to square those things and so. Hater, hater. I mean the pushback there would obviously be like there's a lot of energy in space, solar energy, but, but again, I just felt like there was like a very organized, effectively narrative pump tied to this. I mean, do you want to know why? Come on. I can tell you the answer. I could tell you the answer. It's because SpaceX is racing. You gotta remember what bag is being pumped at any given time. And the fact that you heard the SpaceX round come out maybe a few weeks later is not. It's, that wasn't it. It was within the same week, it was the same week that the $800 billion round like details came out. I could see them raising more now because they've announced the like target one and a half trillion. So like that just creates space for like the pre IPO round which could land at easily a trillion or north of a trillion now that all these people realize like, hey, it's going to go out, I'm going to have like a shorter liquidity timeline. And so yeah, I would expect more. I think that's part of it. But also if we're talking about data centers in space, there's only one service provider, right? The whole, one of the reasons why I'm a hater of data centers in space. Is like, hey, a 3200 pound or whatever, a 1 ton GB 200 on earth costs a lot of money, 10x the cost to get it into space, right? But if a space data center was to ever happen, right, there's only one company that has really lowered the cost of moving something from on Earth into space. And so if that was to even be part of the Tam, all of that Tam would belong to SpaceX. So that's my, that's, that's, that's my belief at least. Is that like when, when these like large narratives come around, a very large funding round, there's, there's no, it isn't a coincidence. Maybe that's what they were talking about in the SpaceX round and that's where you're starting to hear all this stuff. Hey, this is something in their long term planning and then investors who are very excited about it talk about it. That's very plausible. And if there are data centers in space, I promise you SpaceX will be doing it. Let's put it that way. Yeah, yeah. However you feel about it, I promise you SpaceX will be doing it. It's sort of the same thing as like the Mars narrative, which is still years and years away and maybe decades away, but you still have this call option on it because if we get to Mars, it's probably going to be a space. Something I've been thinking about is, I mean it seems.

Ultra dump. We gotta open a Christmas present. But if you have breaking news. No, I wanted to talk about this Christmas present. Okay. Okay. We got a Christmas present from friend of the show, Sahil Bloom. Let's open it up. It's under the Christmas tree. Also, I got a belt on today. I'm looking much more Santa. Felt it up. Okay, so this is from Sahil Bloom himself. Look at this, look at this. New brand alert. I love this. So he said, I got sick of putting things on my skin that I'd never put on my body. So I spent 18 months creating the perfect solution. The perfect solution. Wild Roman. I can smell it. Everyone says the TBP ultradrum smells bad now. Smells great. This actually smells fantastic. So Wild Roman is 100% natural skin care for men. Made with grass fed tallow, cold pressed oils and wild botanicals. You can order today@wildroman.com. i just want to give him a shout out and then. So this is good stuff. You've been using this? I've been using this for about like two weeks. Wow. I think it's working so far. Two weeks on Wild Roman and you look like that. Yeah, I mean I think it's been, you know, it's helped with like beard growth and just general skin clarity. You look fantastic. Yeah, you're glowing. You're really glowing. Glowing from the inside out. It must be the grass fed tallow and the cold pressed oils. Or maybe it's the wild botanicals. But it's clearly. I just want to say never stop. Really, truly never stop using this product. Yeah. Because I do not want you to go back. Never. I don't want you to go back. Never churn. I think you're a customer for life. Never. Never churn. Never turn from this. Anyway, back to the the show. What do you think it takes to win in this category? Sahil's obviously a an influencer.

Merry christmas. You're watching TVPN. Today is Wednesday, December 17, 2025. I see multiple journalists on the horizon. Eight days till Christmas, baby. We're live from the TVPN Ultradome, the temple of technology, the fortress of finance, the capital of capital. It's Christmas day. The north pole of net income, the. I don't know. I don't have any more. Ramp time is money save. Both easy to use. Corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, whole lot more all in one place. We're mixing it up today. Foot ramp under the Christmas tree. Jordy's the elf today. Jordy's the elf today. We're tracking, Hitting it. Oh, that doesn't really work. Whoa. Okay. Stockings are hung. On the gong with care. We're back. Good to see everyone. Welcome back to the show. We have a great show for everyone today.

Got back to us. He answered the question. Is he leveraged up? Is he levering up to buy billboards? He says every out of home agent I've ever talked to has offered 50% reductions in price when doing a large scale campaign. Most of the inventory is actually pretty cheap if you don't focus on the most premium assets. So where haven't you seen a Friend.com billboard? The 101. You haven't seen it, you know in the iconic places. He hasn't done the Times Square buyout. He's in the subway. Right. Like when we saw him. You always make fun of this one is there's one that's like up against the wall. I saw one just a random bus in my hometown. It's like there's just, there's just like random places but there's so many of them. Some of the alpha and out of home in LA is there's so much traffic. Yes. That you're kind of moving slowly by some areas and you'll just see random stuff. And so yeah I was kind of fighting on you, fighting you on this. Like was this TR truly one of the greatest campaigns of the year. And hearing his extra context, it's incredible. He might have unlocked some entirely new strategy of just like the go big massive billboard campaign. And I wouldn't be surprised if we I wouldn't be surprised if next year is the year of the copy paste. The strategy for a company that has a million dollars to spend on a big campaign. But let's do an interesting billboard campaign. Maybe they have a million dollars in revenue too. Maybe they have millions. Ideally yes. I mean he clearly like it was you know, he's like risk on exploring, testing new things like learning but just the core arb of like a big billboard campaign paying off. I think you gotta credit him. You gotta check in with Avi Schiffman. Did you see his other post? He said SF is over. Still a beautiful place to live hyped.

Before our first live in person guest gets to the TVP and ultra dump, we gotta open a Christmas present. But if you have breaking news break. Down, I wanted to talk about this Christmas present. Okay. Okay. We got a Christmas present from friend of the show, Sahil Bloom. Let's open it up. It's under the Christmas tree. Also, I got a belt on today. I'm looking much more Santa. Felt it up. Okay. So this is from Sahil Bloom himself. Look at this, look at this. New brand alert. I love this. So he said, I got sick of putting things on my skin that I never put on my body. So I spent 18 months creating the perfect solution. The perfect solution. Wild Roman. I can smell it. Everyone says the TBP smells bad now. Smells great. This, this actually smells fantastic. So Wild Roman is 100% natural skin care for men. Made with grass fed tallow, cold pressed oils and wild botanicals. You can order today@wildroman.com. just want to give them a shout out and then. Yeah, we were. So this is good stuff you've been using. I've been using this for about like two weeks. Wow. Working so far. Two weeks on Wild Roman and you look like that. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I think it's been, you know, it's helped with like beard growth and just, yeah, skin clarity. You look fantastic. I'm feeling. Yeah, you're glowing. You're really going from the inside out. It must be the grass fed tallow and the cold pressed oils. Or maybe it's the wild botanicals. But it's clearly. I just want to say never stop. Really, truly, never stop using this product. Because I do not want you to go back. Never churn. I don't want you to go back. Never churn. I think you're a customer for life. Never, never churn. Never churn from this. Anyway, back to the show. What do you think it takes to win in this category? Saw Hill's obviously an influencer. An.

More plates, more dates. Well, speaking of restream.com 1 livestream 30/destinations. If you want to multi stream, go to restream.com before our first live in person guest gets to the TVP and ultra dump, we gotta open a Christmas present. But if you have breaking news, break it down. I wanted to talk about this Christmas present. Okay. Okay. We got a Christmas present from friend of the show, Sahil Bloom. Let's open it up. It's under the Christmas tree. Also I got a belt on today. I'm looking much more Santa felt it up. Okay, so this is from Sahil Bloom himself. Look at this, look at this. New brand alert. I love this. So he said, I got sick of putting things on my skin that I never put on my body. So I spent 18 months creating the perfect solution. The perfect solution. Wild Roman. I can smell it. Everyone says the TBP Ultram smells bad now. Smells great. This, this actually smells fantastic. So Wild Roman is 100% natural skin care for men. Made with grass fed tallow, cold pressed oils and wild botanicals. You can order today@wildroman.com. just want to give them a shout out and then. Yeah. So this is good stuff. You've been using this. I've been using this for about like two weeks. Wow. I think it's working so far. Two weeks on Wild Roman and you look like that. Yeah. Wow. I mean I think it's been, you know, it's helped with like beard growth and just general skin clarity. You look fantastic. I'm feeling. Yeah, you're glowing. Yeah, you're glow going from the inside out. It must be the grass fed tallow and the cold pressed oils. Or maybe it's the wild botanicals. But it's clearly. I just want to say never stop. Really truly never stop using this product. Yeah. Because I do not want you to go back. Never. I don't want you to go back. Never churn. I think you're a customer for life. Never, never churn. Never churn from this. Anyway, back to the show. What do you think it takes to win in this category? Saw Hills, obviously a an influencer, an author. He has a massive newsletter. He has 1.1 million followers on on X and has an audience. But something we've been keep, we keep coming back to is like an audience might not be enough to truly win in a category. What are. I think he's got to go hard on target. Like this feels like a good brand to introduce like Talo. Yes. To the target audience. Right. This feels again like Going, going for the set, bunch of products out the gates. This. This screams end cap to me. I. I was talking to a friend and they have a brand that does over 100 million a year. Only in Target. Yeah. They don't sell anywhere else. Yeah. And so it's just such a. Such a massive channel. And so I think Sahil can probably leverage his brand to just go really hard into Target early, but I'm sure he can at least get some initial traction. Dtc. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The DTC thing is great just because it gets the business up and running. Kind of like, you know, iron out any of the kinks, get the supply chain going, you know, learn the obvious customer service questions. Yeah. The main thing that people miss with, like, personality led kind of like influencer brands like this is that no matter how big your audience is, you can be Kim Kardashian. And in order to build a truly big business, you get this initial boost from your audience. But the nature of any audience is that the longer that you just advertise against it, you can saturate it. Kim K can post five times in the first week, but then eventually you have to go find new people that aren't necessarily getting exposure. Well, it's a fascinating question anyway.

Which is so interesting because I've seen a bunch of. There's been. People have been riled up about Bari Weiss running cbs. The. The reason that you maybe would say that she's doing a. An effective job as a manager of that asset is because people are talking about CBS content in a way that I have not seen in ever. Right. Do you ever remember, like, maybe a couple times here you'd see something and she's clipping CBS content. It's like she's doing stories. It feels like it's working. Yeah. If they're. We were joking about this. I mean, no shade to the people that were running CBS before. But, like, what. What content was on that? Yeah, we just don't know what they were doing before. It's like it didn't exist and now it exists. And you can like it or you hate it, depending on your political persuasion, but you can't deny this as, like, it's a thing. The Ellison's were like, hey, we can get a truth engine and we can help. Sure, we can help. Like, we can. Yeah, basically. Yeah. I mean, I mean, there's definitely, like, the brand is still great. Like, CBS feels like a solid news source. So I agree with that. But the reason distribution was so far behind that people weren't talking about what was going on there. And I still don't reason. One way to think about the value of CVS is what would it cost and how long would it take to recreate a brand like cbs? Probably cost. It would take you decades. I don't think you can buy it. I actually don't think. I think you could. I think you could be Sam Altman and marshal a $50 billion fundraising round. You have to snap your fingers and get it. And it would still take 50 years to get there. And that's the thing, is that it's not like if you get 50 billion, what do you have to do? You have to go buy the legacy ip because there's only. You can't just. You can't just. You can't snap your fingers and create a brand overnight. Like, it just takes time. Yeah. So Warner Brothers sent a letter to shareholders this.