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Team death match. Delta Team, you are clear. You're watching TVPN. Today is Friday, October 24, 2025. We are live from the TVPN Ultra Dome, the temple of technology, the fortress of finance, the capital of capital. And we're here. We have a special guest friend of the show. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks for stopping by. We wanted to have you on the show for a few reasons. We are going to run through the Mansion section and get your opinion on what whether these homes are worth passing up or an absolute steal at something like $50 million. So we'll be going through that in a minute. We also wanted to hear from you. What's new in Feed Me World? Do you have any scoops for us? Do you have any breaking news? Do you have any exclusives? We invited you here. So relaxing. We want some news. Well, I've been in LA for a few days and I got some local LA news from some of my readers because I did it a pop up for a few days to sell these new hats. Which LA readers got first? Some of the people that came by had TVPN merch, which was cool. There we go. They're fans, so it's good to have crossover. What news do we have? I'm hiring an intern, which you guys are saying. Not tonight. Breaking news. You heard it here first. That's why you come to us for scoops like this. This has never been shared. She does not post about this included in the newsletter. It's not breaking news until TVP uncovers it. That's right. That's right. What else can I say? Feed Me's first podcast is going live in two weeks. We get to push back the live date and wait. Run through the thesis of the podcast. I thought it was good. Oh, it's like it's a restaurant podcast. It's hosted by my restaurant critic and it'll be fun. We have this idea that there's sort of a white space in kind of. Wait, you guys don't curse or you do. We don't curse, but you're welcome to if you feel like that. I'm not going to. If you want to be voiced the first person to say a swear word on our show. Yeah, it's sort of. Everybody likes restaurants and anybody can talk about restaurants. So we have some interesting people coming on to talk about restaurants with our restaurant critic, which will be a blast. That'll go live in two weeks. Thanks Substack, for supporting that. Some other things might come up. That'd be Fun for the next few minutes. Yeah, I like that. It wasn't just like the Feed Me Show. That was intentional. Right. Because that would be the logical thing, is just, like, to do, like, Emily's show. Exactly. Or, I mean, it could. Feed Me would kind of be a good name for a restaurant. I know, I know. I was talking to somebody the other day. Would you have a different brand for it? It's called Expense Account. Okay. Which is the same name as the restaurant column. Is Ramp sponsoring it? They need to. They should. I'm having some. They're sponsoring us. Ramp.com Time and money. Save both cards. Bill, pay, counting, and a whole lot more all in one place. Yeah, they. They should. Where is my single, by the way? Is it over here? Where? Oh, which one am I on? Am I on this one? There we go. Okay, now I found my single. Perfect. Thank you. Some people read my substack who watch this. That's so good. Yes. That's so great. Only David Senra can curse on the show. You're keeping it. Okay, well, we are about to understand the landscape of the restaurant world, thanks to your new podcast. Yeah, it's gonna be great. Which is called Expense Account. Expense Account. Expense Account. But the real reason that we wanted to have you on the show was to help us the media landscape. There's been a lot of debate. Right. There's been a lot of talk. Paramount, Skydance, you have, you know, the free press starting a conversation. You have media. People like to talk about media. So today we're going to talk about media also. I think people have just simplified things way too much. They try and break it down into a binary. Are you legacy media or new media? Right, right. Are you legacy media or new media? We all know it's way more complicated than that. And people like to say if you can't explain something in simple terms, you don't understand it. Yes. That doesn't apply here. Today we will do it. We are going to break it down. We have a market map. Market map? Yeah, sort of market map. I'm going to kind of walk us through a little bit of it, get feedback from Emily and Jordi and Tyler. And if we get anything wrong, take it up with Tyler, because he's the one that created this, made this graphic. So if there are any errors on it, you know where to go. So we have to start with the mainstream media. What is the mainstream media? Arguably the best. I think it's the best stream, because if you were to pick a stream to do media in, would you Want to be in the main one or some alternative one. You want to be in the mainstream. Ideally, I think everyone is on the march to become the mainstream media. But mainstream media is broken down into several sub sections. You have the legacy media and the traditional media. And why don't you explain the difference? Because a lot of people would say they're the same thing. But a lot of it comes down to the aesthetics. The aesthetics of. You're seeing serif fonts, the New York Times, the Washington Post. When you go over to Fox News, BBC, cnn, you're getting something that feels like it is fighting for its life. It looks like tv. It looks like tv. It looks like tv. I need a little bit more on. My lab is really doing a number. Here we go. Okay. Is that better? Can you guys hear me? Okay. I got really caught up on this. This is your Sam Hyde bit. Sam Hyde's TED Talk. Yeah, you know, you know. Okay, so there is a continuum of. There's a gradient that exists between legacy and traditional. Cnbc right in the middle, you have Forbes, you have the Financial Times. And you can kind of tell that as you get towards Business Insider, cnn, you're more in the legacy world. You're kind of in the danger zone. You're in the danger zone. David Ellison might be kind of licking his chops, saying, oh, maybe I'll take you over at some point. David Ellison, he's not going to make a play for the Wall Street Journal, for the Washington Post, for the New York Times Magazine. These are traditional. Part of traditional means that you can actually get it via newspaper. Right? Or yes, that is key. That's a factor. A lot of people will put the split divide of like your new media, if you have a blog or your legacy media, if you print it out. But we forget that there is a whole host of. Of mainstream media outlets that do not print out their work. They do not ship a newspaper. And so most of the newspapers you'll see the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the New York Times, those are in the traditional media. Economists. Another one. Yes. The Economist. Another one. Atlantic. Yes. So this is really the heart and soul, the beating pulse of the mainstream media. But you also have offshoots from each of these areas. So you have the post trad. Let's talk about post trad and why I say this little number right here, Bloomberg. Bloomberg is moving over into post trad media. Obviously that's on the back of Tracey Alloway, Joe Wiesenthal with the Odd Lots podcast. You can think of that as the classic post trad media. What? And Tracy. Yeah, I said Tracy. I did, yeah. Tracy Elliot and Joe Weisenthal at the Odd Lots Podcast are a great example of post trad media where they come from traditional media, but they have been so early to the podcasting game. They're what, a decade in. Isn't it a decade? I think so, yeah. They're a decade into that and so they jumped. Bloomberg was really an experiment, you know, from Michael Bloomberg to what if I could just be the news? What if I could create the news? Yes. And so be some frustrations with traditional media and you know, saying, why not me? Right? Yes, yes. And so you can see him like he's slightly less traditional than the New York Times, but still, you know, kind of in that. Squarely in that post trad region. We also have proto media. I'm not exactly sure why Digg and Hacker News wound up there. More just like early online efforts that weren't really trying to play in these weren't trying to be traditional media corporations, media organizations. They weren't telling a story about being new media in any way. They were sort of the. But you could almost put Reddit here. We're missing Reddit in some ways, but Reddit was trying to be the front page of the Internet to kind of curate stories. Yeah, I mean, you could probably go all the way up here and add social media and TikTok and stuff. But we want to stay on the media outlets, the folks who really proclaim that they are the media. Right. And so over here we have the post legacy media. And this is a crew of former legacy media folks who have now ventured out into substack and YouTube, substack and substack. Would you argue that a few years ago Barry, like the free press would have been there too? Post legacy moved? Well, I think Barry's way down. If I remember correctly, she's in more of the legacy new media she's seen in legacy. She was new media. Yes. But now she's in the legacy new media bucket. So if you're. What are these guys? Post legacy. So post legacy is where you were up until recently, like a part of the legacy or traditional media. If you worked for the legacy media in the 2000s, like Alex Heath at Verge, which isn't exactly legacy media, but at Forbes, Legacy New media and obviously Bloomberg with Ashlee Vance. If you were working with the legacy media, you didn't jump ship in the 90s, you didn't jump ship in the 2000s. You didn't jump ship in the 2010s, you rode it all out the mid-2020s. And then the mid-2020s, you were like, okay, this legacy media thing isn't working for me anymore. I gotta go. That's where we get Ashlee Vance and Bloomberg here. So this kind of crossover. Yes, yes, yes. But the free press. The free press. Barry left the New York Times famously, you know, crazy dust up. And that was in the pre. Post legacy media era. Right before. Right before that started. Yeah, exactly. So she used to be in the new media bucket. Yes. But current now she sits in the legacy new media. And that's because there's a whole new wave of new media. And so Andreessen Horowitz is leading the charge here. They have a team that is just called new media, which of course asks the question, what were they doing before? Which was their marketing team. Yes. So they were doing media. It's not like they just started doing media. No, they just started doing new media. Their old media is now known as legacy new media. And so legacy new media also includes the information buzzfeed, Wired Vice, organizations that came out and said, we are going to be doing the new media thing. But they said that a decade ago. And so now it's a little bit legacy. Then you also have, of course, alt media. Vice kind of bridges these two gaps. You have the trappings of a new media organization, but with a little sharper edge over here. You get into the darker media, dark media zone. You get the Sam Hyde, the, the Curtis Yarvins, the passage press. Of course, we still haven't figured out where Feed Me goes. We'll do that at the end. We'll do this at the end. But we can move over to neo alt media. You have the Adam Fried lens. Yes. So you still have some of the edginess, some of the rebel spirit of your vice magazines, your red scares, but obviously newer products, newer media products launched more recently. Then you also have new media with the nu. That of course is media that covers nu metal. So anyone who's. If you're writing a blog about Limp Bizkit or POD or Slipknot, that obviously goes in the new media category. If you were to build kind of like the free press for corn fans, you would go in new media. Nu, not new media. And of course we have to talk about the post corporate media category. Chapo Trap House, obviously fitting in there. It's a very funny choice to put that there. But obviously anti corporate, sometimes socialist, sometimes communist, sometimes left wing, but distinctly anti corporate you're not going to run a lot of ads on a post corporate media property, but you might curse some people, you might hire some people. Yeah, that's possible. Now we do have the post Neo media. So as you think, you think traditional media, legacy media, regular media, new media, Neo media is the newest Neo tradition we'll get to in a little bit. Post Neo media, you can think of it as the most accelerated, the most aggressive, the final, the most cutting edge media properties that are out there. We have Martin Shkreli, he just turns on a live stream. It doesn't. He goes for hours and hours and hours and hours. It's not a media company, it's not a TV show and he's moving markets. Right? Exactly, exactly. Then you have ishowspeed and Mr. Beast, other examples of post Neo media creators. You of course have had the expert media sphere with Andrew Hubert, Lex Friedman, AI expert, Joe Rogan, UFO expert. And then of course, and then we have the neo factual media. More of the analysts focused on the actual truth. One of the really the only truth seeking organizations on the map in general. Where are we? Let's move over, let's zoom out to so traditional media, we know traditional media. You're printing things out, you're making traditional content, you're instantiating your ideas in traditional ways. And the Neo trads are doing this in a new way. This is new media that cosplays as traditional media. So that's tvpn, right? It has some of the aesthetics of an espn. Yes. But it looks and feels. Good job guys. Thank you, thank you to the production team. I'm glad you guys like the show. And so Colossus is another good example here. They're obviously Neo. You know, if you look on this map, what is Colossus? There was a debate last week, right? This is part of what started the debate. What is Colossus? Are they writing profiles? You know, is, is this journalism? And we just immediately thought this is obviously neo trad media. There's no other way to look at it. This is traditional print media reborn for the modern era. Yes. And specifically you wind up getting a lot of attention in neo trad media from the old media, from the mainstream media, from the legacy media, because you are wearing traditional media clothing. So arena magazine kind of sitting squarely between post trad and neo trad. And so if you are the editor of Forbes or Fortune magazine, Fortune magazine has done a cover story on Josh Kushner. Colossus magazine just did a cover story on Josh Kushner. And they printed it out and it's a physical magazine. And so it feels much more like a direct attack and a complex product as opposed to. If Colossus was just a substack, the editor of Forbes, the editor of Fortune, they would be able to say, well, that's just a substack. What makes us special is we print ours out and mail. Would you ever do a daily print newspaper? Daily print? I don't think so, but I would do weekly daily print. There's so many hands involved and like material getting it just geofencing to New York, Manhattan. You could have little people and feed me outfits. Yeah. Or I guess the other thing people do. I don't know if you guys remember this paper during COVID called the Drunken Canal, which was like a downtown gossip paper that they put in the news newspaper stand boxes around the city. But that was maybe four times a year or something. But that was really fun because you couldn't really find the content online. It created some tension around discovery they're going to publish. So then we have Neo Corporate media. These are like obviously from a corporation that does something that's not media. You have the AWS Developer Tools blog. Let's give it up for them. Some of the greatest content. You have the OpenAI podcast, Cheeky Pint, which sort of dresses up as Neo Trad in many ways, but also is fully owned and operated by Stripe, a corporation. Then you have the neoconglomerate media. This is whatever David Ellison is working on, we believe. David and Barry, I want you to take me through. We forgot we could have added UFC as part of this new Neo conglomerate. But then we also have the east coast update it. Yeah, the east coast underground. You'll have to explain everything in this section. Yeah, we weren't familiar with this. What's going on? You guys know New York Magazine? Come on. Well, yeah, from the Andrew Huberman. Is that the New Yorker magazine? No. Is that the New York Times Magazine? No. Is that the New York. New Yorkers? New York Magazine. New Yorker is part of Conde Nast. Okay, okay. New York Times Magazine is part of the New York Times. Correct. And New York Magazine is something else. Who's it owned by? And it's. Is it supported by like the. It's under. It's under Vox. You should nationalize it. Mamdani. Let's do it. Yeah, I mean, that's a big one. You guys should probably know about that one. I feel like. I feel like I love New York Magazine because to come out of the magazine, the New York Times already has a magazine and the New Yorker has a magazine. And you're just like, you know what? New York needed a magazine. That's something that we would say. It's the best one. That's the one where I worked. Yes, it does seem cool. And I feel like when you see a New Yorker, a New York Mag profile, it is great. Oh, my God, it's great. Yeah. They have their own special flavor. That's not quite the New Yorker. It's not quite the New York Times Magazine. Right. It's the New York. It's New York Mag. It's New York Mag. NY Magazine. Okay, so why are these so unsafe? You guys have never heard. Okay, you've heard of Puck because you've been on Dylan's podcast. But Tyler, our intern, has not heard of Puck. And he's heard of all of these other. You haven't heard of Hellgate. You wouldn't know about. That's more of like a New York left leaning. Tyler, do you know Semaphore? No. Okay. Do you know Status? No. Status was started by Oliver Darcy and he came from cnn, I believe. So, like, we should move him maybe over there. But something that's interesting that's happening is some people are logos and some people are faces. Yeah. Like, you guys chose to put TVPN as your logo. And I'm curious, I'm happy that Feed Me is not my face and it's my logo. You want the brand to grow, but Feed Me is starting to become more of a platform. Platform company. Bingo. Yeah. I would. We left off Punchbowl. Punchbowl. Oh, Punchbowl. Yeah. I mean, they're ex politico. Right. Okay. So what I'm actually hearing is that East Coast Underground is really sort of a further post trad. Post legacy. Maybe they're post legacy. Yeah. I think a lot of them are post legacy. I think the difference between them and like an Alex is a lot of them have raised like tens of millions of dollars to get their things off the ground. But their newsletter businesses, but. So they're thinking less independent. We needed a category for heavily VC backed. Yeah, you really do. You really do. Because we're gonna be watching how those play out in the next few years or months. Yes. Well, are there any. Are there any major, major corrections that you think we should make? Do you think we got any of this wildly wrong? No, I mean, it's really interesting that you guys. The East Coast Underground thing, because those are the publications that people are like, wringing their hands is that like going crazy over in New York City. Sure. And maybe your audience is. I definitely think these folks need to be over here. Yeah, I think we can redistribute the underground. Yes. Because you can basically see it goes like. I mean, New York magazine is not underground. Less tech. More tech here. And then politics is kind of running through this way. But then over here you have some tech and. And then over here you have some tech. Yeah, those can be sort of redistributed next to each other status. I would call post legacy, but. Okay, but it's almost like there's some difference because these were started 5, 10 years ago. Correct. Like PUC is not this year. Puck didn't start this year. Puck started, I think like three years ago. Oh, three years ago. Okay, that is pretty recent. And they've raised recent 20 million. It's not quite as recent. And they also just acquired airmail, which was grade and Carter, sort of can you hit the gong for puck for raising 20 million? But. But the big story with Puck right now is that they just acquired airmail. Okay, what's air mail? Who's that? Green Carter, the great editor of Vanity Fair. Okay, there we go. So he's more airmail in the post. Legacy media airmail was something else. I mean, it still is. It's still in existence, but it's sort of like, you go, it's very luxury. So it's like this is what happened in this resort in Sweden. This is like the crazy thousand word story about it. And every, you know, sort of 20 words there's a big Hermes ad. So it's like amazing. Yeah, let's give it up for Hermes. Zack Meyer in the chat says, I think this needs to be three dimensional to better illustrate their. I agree, I agree. Okay, well, that concludes. Well, I'm glad we could clear up the media landscape because there's been so much debate lately and sometimes you need to, you know, expand in order to really help. I mean, we were joking about this being completely schizo, but we didn't have barstool. Yeah, we gotta add barstool. Okay, let's make some notes. We'll do a V2 before we release the next iteration, but we'll get something there. Let's go through the mansion section. I want some advice on what is a buy, what is a sell. Before we do, let me tell you about restream.com one livestream 30 +, 30 destinations, multi stream to reach your audience wherever they are. Well, you said that you were interested to talk about Carl Icahn's NYC penthouse. Is that correct? Are you familiar with it? Carl Icahn pasta at the restaurant. I think it's like two blocks from his house. There's this restaurant called, I think it's called Il Tonello. It's an Italian restaurant and they have like a $20 Carl icon pasta. I looked this up recently. Only 20? Yeah, because it's not exciting. It's like, it's like a very simple pasta. But he ordered it a lot. So I think one of the things, if you buy there, you can sort of like always take friends to that place and sort of get into, well, you know who used to own my apartment? Who? Carl Icahn. No way. They do that every time. Oh, oh, if you live there. Yeah, yeah, that's, you know, neighborhood you can have maybe rename the pasta if you learn if you move there, you know. Icon has also entertained numerous corporate giants at the apartment, including computer titan Michael Dell, Apple CEO Tim Cook, Netflix co founder Reed Hastings. He would extend. He. It is. He. He was hanging out with Dell. It was pretty fun. It's $23 million property. Let me see how many square feet. People are liking the lifestyle news. You guys should talk about restaurants more. We should. The apartment has views around the city including Central Park. Dramatic double height foyer, has a circle staircase, 23, 250 units. I'm not sure how big this is. Oh, okay. It is 14,000 square feet and it's a combination. Why is that sad? That's huge for Manhattan. That's massive. 14,000 square feet is the combination of three apartments that were purchased over 40 years. And so he slowly built this like larger and larger 53rd. Does that make a difference? Well, is that material? Like would you know Manhattan that well to know? I would hope so. I would hope you know it that well. I know it that well. I don't know the difference. So it is on. The apartment atop Museum Tower on Manhattan's West 53rd street spans the 51st and 52nd floors. It has 14,000. That's a buy. You think that's a buy. So Carl Icahn. Carl Icahn has said the billionaire is unsure why his beautiful apartment on West 53rd street hasn't found a buyer yet. You think you agree with that? Take it doesn't make sense. Somebody needs to step up. Yeah, somebody will step up after this story. Okay, so you could get one 53rd Street, 14,000 square foot apartment. Or you could get in the story. I mean, so here's the thing. So he had a Hindenburg research report on him. On his empire. On his empire. And so I think. And Puck has an article here. I just searched Carl Icahn fall off. And Puck pulls up. Carl Icahn on how to lose 20 billion. So I think people don't want to buy the apartment because bad luck. They're worried about negative aura. But you call a priest. You call. You get some sage, you just sage it up. Okay. That's every apartment in New York. So for 23 million, it's fixable. You can make it work. Okay. What about this Del Mar Beach House for $50 million, this one was actually sold. I can hold it up here. A beachfront compound with a ping pong pavilion. Are you pro ping pong? Sure. Yeah. Rank kind of fell off. Rank. These paddle sports. Ping pong. Padel. What's the other one called? I don't like sports. That were invented in the. Pickleball. And then tennis is top rank those four. Tennis is the top. Yeah. And then ping pong. Yeah. And then Padel and what's the other one? And then pickleball's at the bottom. Yes. Pickleball. It just has a terrible name. I know the word doesn't sound good. Oh, here's the picture of the house. So 50 million. It has 6,000 square feet, seven bedrooms. How would you rank this? I will keep. I will keep giving you extra information. Basically, Del Mar. Del Mar is in San Diego County. It is. That's really not my kind of place, but no. Yeah. What's kind of the Hamptons of Los Angeles? Kind of a brutal view. Don't say that. It's kind of a brutal. Look how brutal Hamptons. Don't say that. If someone was like, from first principles, let's just make the Hamptons better, they would come up with Del Mar. But look how brutal the view is from the pool. Pool. I don't think this was the best photo they could have ran. You see the beach? Yeah. Oh, yeah, I can see the beach behind the staircase, like through this little sliver. Oh. So are you an infinity pool guy? You want the pool straight out to the ocean? Okay. Okay. Well, the seller is a limited liability company tied to Sandra Nathsker, whose family has been major cattle ranchers over a century in Arizona, California and Oregon. Land. Land. Family landmaxing land is the most underrated asset. Completed last year, the oceanfront compound first came on the market for 75 million, but the price has been reduced. It finally sold for 50 million. The listing agent said it's remarkable sale for San Diego Coastal real estate agent. The Property includes a 4,500square foot main house. Somebody would have to pay you quite a lot to live there. It is crazy too. That's not my kind of beach. And that's not my kind of house. It's crazy to get. To get half the space. And you're in Del Mar, which is cool, but you're not in Manhattan. You would think that Manhattan would just be more expensive and you're paying twice as much for half the space. Yeah. I say take icons property. That makes no sense to me. What else. What about. What about Hawaii? What's your take on Hawaii? Then once it's the. It's the Hamptons of the Pacific. Do you agree? The only thing I'm curious about with Hawaii is I really want to visit a Zuck's ranch and meet those cows. Okay. Meet those cows. You want to meet those cows specifically? Yes. You don't just want to see how big the property is? The cow specifically. I'm curious about what he's sort of doing there with the. He's obsessed with like breeding the perfect cow. Yeah. We missed. We. They had Zuck burgers at the Meta Connect event that we were live from, and we missed. We just got really busy podcasting. It's basically impossible to eat while you're streaming because you have to eat talk on the microphone. None of them could have put one aside. Do you guys have any? Yeah. No. No. No one had any. Wow. Missed opportunity. Missed opportunity. So Katherine Conrad spent a decade perfecting the gardens at her Honolulu home overlooking the ocean. The estate has granite pathways that wind around a Carrera marble fountain. I don't know what that is. Actually an antique pergola. Cost about $40,000. Her favorite view of the garden is at night when the cypress, monkey pod and flowering Tacoma trees are illuminated. She's trying to pitch the monkey pod as a feature. Sounds like a bug. You have a monkey pod. I guess that's like. It's like a cat tree for a monkey. Visit you in Hawaii too. Like, you have to. The time zone is so brutal. Yeah. Or you have neighbors you love, maybe. Or you meet new friends. But if you're. If you're buying in California or New York, someone's always going to be totally hot. I also feel like, as for the celebrities out there, it really puts a target on your back when. Anytime there's. Every time there's been like a natural disaster, it's like, oh, the. You know, the rock. Because you took all our water. Yeah, well, that. But there was the tsunami warning last year and they were getting really canceled for that and then canceled for the tsunami and then the fight. Well, no, no, because apparently they had like private roads that every, you know, everyday citizens were backed up in traffic trying to escape the tsunami and they, they were not inclined to open their private property. Yes. Always going to be more controversial to buy in Hawaii. Yeah. Okay, so 0.8 of an acre it was. The first lot was bought for 7.55 million, then 4 million for the adjacent parcel. So you put two, two properties together, around 11 million in land value, then 12 million in renovation. They're asking 34. It's a four bedroom, 5,200 square foot house, ocean views. It also has a Pilates studio. Is that a feature for you? I like to leave my house for Pilates. You want to leave your house for pilates? So at 34 million, are you buying or are you selling? No, you're not buying, you're passing. Passing. What about this house in Puerto Rico? I haven't been to Puerto Rico in a very long time. Before we, we move on, we gotta do another ad. Do you have the ads list? I don't have it today. Let me pull it up. Here we go. Sorry. Privy wallet infrastructure for every bank. Privy helps John makes it easy to build on crypto rails, securely spin up white label wallets, sign transactions and integrate on chain infrastructure all through one simple API. Yes, Puerto Rico was very much a thing during 2020. Whoa, that is crazy there. Invite. They're saying, come hang out. I have a friend. Yes, yes. They want people to come visit. I have a friend who would refer to that as a gulag because you, you get all your boys to come and visit and hang out and they all sleep in bunk beds, but you really could sleep like with 12 people there or something. So this, this mansion has, is this. 17,000 square feet, eight bedrooms, a basketball court, a pool. It is for sale for $65 million. Is it in that zone? I think. I don't know if it's the Four Seasons or there's another hotel company that has effectively set up a mini city in Puerto Rico. You know about this? There is information about the Ritz Carlton in here. Oh, it's the Ritz. Let me read it. Simon said he and his wife had little intention to buy in Puerto Rico before stopping by the Ritz Carlton Sales office in 2015. They quickly became enamored with the, the idea of building a house there. Buying a one acre parcel of land on one of the community's golf courses. The parcel overlooks the ocean. It was completely impulsive. There were a few false starts. The phallics got the keys to the new home in 2017, just before Hurricane Maria hit, closing down the resort community and resulting in minor damage. Water damage to the home. Soon after the community recovered, Covid hit. In recent years, the phallics have spent long weekends and holidays at the property, as well as several weeks in the summer. They are selling because their grandchildren are older and don't spend much as much time on the property. Puerto Rico's luxury housing market has boomed in recent years thanks to tax incentives and the rise of remote work. It's become very attractive. They undid a lot of those incentives or they. They. There's some other in. But now they're just sort of trapped in. In the Caribbean. Yes. And so this is a lot. In the Dorado Beach Resort. Yeah, that's cool. Which is a Ritz Carlton Reserve Resort. 65 million. Buy or pass? Pass. But maybe try to get. I don't know if those Disney posters are coming with the house, but I feel like the posters in the film room, you could flip those. Yeah. Split them off, you know, break it up. Break up big Puerto Rico. Sell it for parts. We got to talk about J.P. morgan's new headquarters. Michael Dell shared it. I have a post pulled up here. Oh, yes. This is peak performance, and I wanted to get your reaction to this setup. Can we pull up this post in the timeline? It would be great to be able to pull up posts both in the timeline and There. That's the future. Well, that's what. Can we not pull it up there while we're pulling that up? Let me tell you about cognition. They're the makers of Devon. Devin is the AI software engineer. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. All right, Pull up this post from litquidity and we'll put it on there. We don't need to put it on the. On the back screen. We can actually just pull it on the. Yep, yep. And while we're doing that, let me tell you about figma.com, think bigger, build faster. Figma helps design and development teams build great products together. You can get started for free. Did you see the. What else is going on here? Would you guys buy anywhere besides California? No. New York, eventually. California has so much. I feel like I just want to, like, grow the map of places I go that are driving distance. We're both. We're both excited about Santa Barbara. Yeah. The Montecito to La Marin. No, Too far. But even Big Bear. So you just want to buy houses close to each other. Houses that are less than an hour away from each other. In California, in LA specifically, you can get in a car and in two hours be in a completely different biome. You can be in the desert, or you can be in the ocean, or you can be on an island. So here's. They got video footage of the JPM analysts going to their new workstation. This is a post from Liquidity, but pull up the post from Michael Dell that shows the actual setup here. And we need a rate. My rate, my office. Did you guys hear that employees have to pay for the gym? What? At jpm? Why? There was a story about it. I mean, I guess that's just inspire them to grind it. I mean, employees were not happy about it. They were like, why do we have to pay to go to this? I guess it's just such a big organization that if you don't put some sort of limit, people will like kind of all flood right on January 1st or something. And I'm sure that they have. It's just kind of like a. I'm sure that they have like a health account or something towards it. Yeah. So this is what P performance looks like for sure. This is beautiful. Actually, I saw this setup and I was. And I thought, I want to recreate this here 100%. I'm down to be in the trenches. Yes. This is what the trenches look like. I like that they have the thing that new hotels have now where you just. You have the outlets right there. Yeah. And the desks. That's nice. We're not. Imagine having ChatGPT add up numbers for you while sitting in that setup. So what I'm interested is like, when was this taken? Because I thought they worked hard. I don't think that's a real photo. That doesn't really look like a real person. Michael Dell just posted this and said, congratulations, JP Morgan on opening your new headquarters. He sold them all the monitors because the monitors are Dell monitors. I think this is a rendering. I don't know why. This is real. I think this is real. You don't think that jawline. That's pure APM power. I don't know. I don't know. I have to see it for myself. I emailed their team. Even Michael Dell replied to his own post and said, we are monitoring the situation. Yeah. You don't do that on some slop. I think they finished building out the office, Michael. Looks like slop. Look at those beautiful Dell monitors. I will Fight you on this. I need this. This is. I want to go. Maybe that's where my shoot is. That is where your shoot is. This is the spot. We're hop. Skipping a jump from the people that will actually. I need to go. I need to see. I need to see it for myself. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Okay. Last thing. Have you seen it? Last thing. We have to. No, it's beautiful. Oh, it's a whole new building and it has like crazy led at the top, right? It has a crazy light show. That's cool. There's like rock. There's like a big story about like the rocks that they brought into Dwayne the Rock Johnson. You should bring him in. Have him do it. I feel like when you set up a new fortress of finance, you should have like an inaugural, an inaugural lock in and you should bring in like a, like Warren Buffett should come and like lock in and type the first row in a spreadsheet and be like, yes, like, we've opened the office. Jamie Dimon himself has come and, and, and done and written the first cell of the spreadsheet. And now the office is open for business. It's like, it's like smashing a bottle of wine across a boat. I like that. You know, you need to christen a new office. Let's pull up this post from none other than the New York Post, which I don't think they made it on the media landscape, but mobsters ran rigged poker games at Kylie Jenner's Lux NYC pad while she still owned it. Apparently Travis Scott also was on the owned a piece of it too. What's going on here? You think this all ties back into the whole. Isn't this part of the story that came out yesterday about. I just got an email from you 19 minutes ago. You're sitting right here. It's crazy, right? It's crazy. Isn't this part of the story with the NBA gambling? I haven't been following this too closely. The headline yesterday on the Times about the NBA coach gambling there was in the headline it also mentioned mafia. So unless there's two mafia poker rings going on, which is totally possible in a city like New York, I think they're connected. And I wrote about it yesterday and one of my readers emailed me. I'm not going to say who it was, but he was like, if you want to talk about this, I was there. Or the game was held at gunpoint. What? If you want to talk about it. And I said, sure. And what is game held at gunpoint? Like Someone's forcing you to play poker. Well, you guys don't play poker. Sometimes that happens. What do you mean that happens? Guns, drugs. But. But in what scenario? Mafia. But. But under. Under what conditions am I like, I'm really enjoying playing poker with you. So you will die if you don't care. I think it's more like they're just having so much fun. Yeah, you do a little. You have a little too much fun and somebody like pulls something out they're not supposed to pull out. And yeah, I've never had a gun at a poker game, but I've heard this is why I'm not leaving California. This. This New Yorker seems crazy to me. There's none of this here. This is. This is not. There's a post here on the. On the sports gambling arrest Mike over on X with 2 million views on this post. The NBA is very concerned about the multiple arrests made as a result of the sport FBI sports gambling raid. Use code code multiple arrests for a 30% profit boost on a three leg parlay with DraftKings, the official gambling partner of the NBA. I love it. I am glad that people are still playing poker in person as opposed to just only playing online. That's good. That's kind of a white pill for sure. Touching grass. Yeah. Chips. I used to have a poker podcast. Really? Yeah, it was called Chips and Dip and it was about poker and chips. Like potato chips. Potato chips, yes. Were you. Were you like a good poker player? I am. I was. My ex was like a good poker player. And then our friend the third guy is also very good and he's borderline addict. He's gambling addict. Good luck to him. He's doing okay. He might start writing about poker. He should go work at a hedge fund or something. Yeah, put it to work. For sure. He should go lock in. He should be. He should do the inaugural gamble. The first gamble at the new. The new Morgan Stanley hq. It's Morgan Stanley, right? No, it's jpm. Oh, it's jpm. Okay. Jpm. Yes, yes, yes. The first fat finger trade. This is important. Anyway, thank you so much for stopping. For having me. Guys. We know we have to get you. You have to get out of here. Really fun. Gotta go to the Hammer Museum. Breaking. She will be the Hammer Museum. I didn't know this is logic. Could go by and say I played. Don't say that. Be careful. Okay. Bye guys. Bye. Great hanging. Cheers. While we rearrange the seats, let me tell you about Vanta.com Automate compliance manage risk. Prove trust continuously. Vanta's trust management platform takes the security and compliance process. The manual work out of your security compliance process and replace it with continuous automation. Alex Heath says Snap is in talks to raise at least? 1 billion for AR glasses. Multiple investors involved, including Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund. Plan is to move specs into a new independent subsidiary. Subsidiary spinning it out and structure similarly to Waymo and Alphabet. I want to get Evan on the show so badly. I think it would be a very interesting conversation. We're working on it. It will happen soon. Who? Samsung just launched a Vision Pro competitor, right? Samsung Galaxy XR, the headset, and Google's announcing it today. This is 16 minutes ago. The Samsung Galaxy XR is powered by Android XR and it's supposed to be.

You're watching TVPN today is Friday, October 24, 2025. We are live from the TVPN Ultra Dome, the temple of technology, the fortress finance, the capital of capital. And we're here. We have a special guest friend of the show. Happy to be here. Thanks for having.

What's happening? It's going to happen. If you want to sell it to fanduel, you're ready. Yeah. What, what's your last thing? What's your kind of like timeline on, on this sort of tension bubbling up around data centers and slop and, and the overall I, I have a very. Clear idea of how, of how like how bubbles. It can get more, it can get a lot more intense from here. It'll go national in 2026. The Democrats are going to win a decent amount of elections. Anti tech is already a small D Democratic issue. You're going to start hearing a ton of it at town halls. It's already happening. And 2026, 2027 is when it's going to happen. And on the right you're tracking like Marjorie Taylor Green or Josh Holly, like who's, who's going to be leading the front there on the right it'll probably. Be Tucker Carlson at the top and from that point it will flow to the Marjorie Taylor Greens, the Josh Hollies. I'd be very curious to see where, where JD lands on this actually where David, David, I mean is a central figure in now. Yes, David Sachs Point. Sachs. Sachs's point I think from earlier this week was that without AI you have basically zero GDP growth. So I think he's taking side. That's the problem. So. And listen, that's not his fault. He's the AI advisor. He should be making that point. But if I want to lead our country, that's not the sell I'm making. Because what we have learned over the last. We need to prop up the economy so you can lose your job. Yeah, exactly. There you go. That is the end all of this entire conversation. Okay. This is the final boss of the anti tech wave. It really is potentially the final battle. Yeah. And it's going to be crazy. And I'm excited to have many more conversations. The Singularity. Will, I would love to. Yeah, yeah, we'd love to have you back. This is so much fun. Thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it. Always welcome and congratulations on all your success. Obviously.

Of America. I would say no. I mean, if you put all those things together. Yeah, it was interesting. Ryan. Ryan Cohen from GameStop came on the show on Monday. He was basically. He was. He didn't say this explicitly, but he was basically. He was. Seemed generally in favor of just stopping all AI research. I thought you were going to talk about his take on Call of Duty. He was like, I don't. What did he say? He was basically like, I don't want people playing Call of Duty. I don't want kids playing Call of Duty. Which is crazy. From like the GameStop guy. He's the CEO of the company. But he was. He had sort of a similar, like anti video game take. Like, maybe it's not as safe as people think it is. Well, I mean, if you guys talk to teenagers and you're like, how do you guys hang out? A lot of them will be like, oh, we don't hang out very much, but we play a lot of video. Games together. Sorry, that's bad. All right. I mean, it's weird. It's weird. Wait, but what about all the dudes? I'm sure, you know, some of the guys who have been like one shot by golf, where they're just. Golf is their whole personality. They just are. All they do all day is think about golf and then on the weekend they go golfing. It's. It's similar, is it not? No, it's not similar because. Well, okay, when I said video games, what I said is they're at home playing online with their friends. Yes. Now, you and I, you guys, we're all relatively the same age. Yeah. Online play was not around that time. So what you would do is you would gather at a friend's house, pro social. It was, it was, it was, it. Was couch co op. It was a thing when I was a kid, but I lived somewhat in the country and so there.

Adding value because that's really what we're here to do for not just ourselves, but the broader ecosystem. You would laugh. We were running the numbers on building a hearth or a wood powered data center here at the studio that's. Surprisingly doable out of like a normal fireplace. We believe you could potentially power 8H 1002 and fine tune GPT OSS however you want it over the course of a day. Basically. We want to be the first Nvidia customer to be focused on the wood powered data center. Yes. It'S our own part of the market map. It's very cozy to chop firewood and boil water as they did hundreds of years ago. I'm super excited for GTC next week. Yeah, this is great. Thank you so much for giving us of a lot.

AI to scale and to really reach the ambitions and hopes of the industry. Last question, we'll let you go. Last time you were on, we kind of walked through a little bit of a debunk of the we're going to run out of water for data centers. What's your current thinking on the story that's emerging around? Like data centers are going to drive up my energy prices. Is that solvable on the short term? Is this going to be some short term pain for long term gain? Is it something that you need to rethink regulation or just speed up building of new energy? How are you thinking about that question? Because it seems like it's going to get bigger and bigger. Yeah, so I actually found it fascinating. There was a report that came out recently that showed actually in markets with substantial data center investment, the overall cost of ratepayers actually came down, you know, compared to other markets where, you know, there was less digital infrastructure being built, where prices actually went up substantially. And you know, I really see this trend playing out as a whole because what ends up happening is, you know, the digital infrastructure players, the folks building the data centers at this point, you know, a lot of the energy market is saturated and there isn't just, you know, a bunch of free power laying around, you know, underutilized, not doing much. You know, there's some of that, but you know, you know, it's becoming more and more scarce. Which means that in order to realize all of these ambitions that are taking place in AI, we actually have to build out a lot of net new power. We need to build new power plants, we need to build new creative energy solutions to effectively energize this infrastructure. And when data centers are doing that, they're having to build out power capacity that meets their overall peak demands of the facility. And, and as a result it ends up with some incremental power that is being underutilized and can become an asset to other participants in those energy markets and really actually bring down their overall cost of power because there's more abundant power. And that really goes in line with the Crusoe mission, which is accelerating the abundance of energy and intelligence. We really view those two things as the key pillars of progress in this chapter for humanity. Yeah, I love it. I think it's definitely, I mean there's a bunch of different political frameworks where you could use to understand where this is going.

Taking hold. A lot of people that visit the ultradome wear suits. Well, I mean, pretty much like there are going to be tons of AI folks, tons of tech people who are going to be dragged in front of Congress over this data center build out. I think you've clocked this correctly, but walk me through, is this a thesis that came from you see this coming or you're seeing smoke signals already? Walk me through. Your thesis of how to tech and the AI build out runs on a collision course with the average American. Yeah, the thing is, guys, and I really want to hammer this home for people who are watching because I, you know, shocker, I think many people in Silicon Valley do live in a bubble. One of the best parts of my job is I do genuinely is I interact. And we'll return to bubble conversation, by the way, but what I get to do is not only interact with a lot of people who are normal in politics, and I mean that at the very base level, not people who live in Northern Virginia. The vast majority of my audience don't Live in Washington D.C. many are Uber drivers, hotel clerks, et cetera. And I start to see bubbling stuff over the last five years over cost of living. At the same time, I'm tracking the electricity story and it doesn't take a genius to pair that with data center build out. So one of the things that I really want to flag, I think here on the show, is that the coming data center collision at the heart of that is about electricity. It doesn't have to be this way. One of my favorite notes is there's an analyst I follow who was in China. He had a very different view of this in China, even though of course they don't have democratic politics, but of course they do have some level of democratic input. Is they said nobody's concerned here because electricity is considered a solved problem. We don't have a solved problem of electricity here in the United States. In fact, worse. Our grid is aging and actually things are getting worse. So with all of this capital expenditure in data centers, you are seeing a literal finite resource competition, especially in rural areas. So Virginia, the state where I live, 40% of all of our power is consumed by data centers. Oregon, for example, is some 33%. To be fair to many of the AI people who are watching, it's not all AI. We are the hotbed, right of of servers and Amazon and much of the federal government. But the point is, is that this is bubbling up at a very organic township level. So from Arizona to Virginia to data centers actually had a mention in our more recent gubernatorial debate, both the Republican and the Democratic candidate said that they wanted to do something about it. There's Prince William county here in Virginia, where this is an active live issue and the public is overwhelmingly against it. The city of Tucson is moving. And so if we see this continued capital expenditure go up, and especially in more rural areas, we see headlines like 267% power increases for power bills in rural areas which are built near data centers, not to mention in environmental concerns, etc. That's when you're going to see people start to get dragged before Congress because. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. I'm just curious. What. Obviously, every area, you know, people are not.

This is the worst the dopamine feedback loop will ever be. This is the worst the infinite jest will ever be. Do you think China is less dopamine addled like. Like probably brain rotted because. Yeah, it feels a little bit. No. No to no brain rot. TikTok. Yeah, their TikTok is just science video. It's just not. Yeah, right. Absolutely not. I mean look like who needs. Who needs opiates for the masses? More like a country with 20% youth unemployment or a country that has like what, 3.5% unemployment. I think that the party has successfully kind of like which country has 20% unemployment? Youth unemployment. Yeah. Which country are you talking about? Well, yeah, give us get let I run for an extra year or two I guess but over. Those are rookie numbers. If you told me that was America, I'm not that far off. I mean I've heard that the number numbers are going up. They might have spiked obviously. No, I think there is. I think this sort. You know, it's fun. You guys should have Jasmine son on. I asked her because she just came back from a trip to China. I was like who walks around looking down at their phone? More people in the bay or China. And she couldn't really distinguish between the two identical. I don't just like equally sort of like zoned in while like walking down the street. You are like simultaneously swiping. Ben sand in our chat says iOS Liquid Glass is the best line of defense against phone addiction. I totally agree. This is like the worst software Apple's released in so long and it just makes using your phone worse. So I'm sure. I hope my screen time is going down. Don't worry Jony, I've will come in to save the day. Jordy, we won't be safe. That won't save us for long. Yeah. Okay, wait, zoom out. The original reason we wanted to chat was because of the. It's always fun to have you on the show but obviously about the rare earth. Like just give us the. The high level update on like the.

Year to date. So we have Jordan Schneider from Chinatalk joining in just a minute. But the last question I want is the update on obviously you believe there's an AI bubble. Is there a media bubble? Is David Ellison trying to build one? What's going on in the media landscape? We were trying to map it out earlier, taking you through new media, neo media, traditional media, the legacy media, the mainstream media. There's so many different phrases like what's the most interesting story in Media in 2025? Because we've already had the story about like we're leaving the mainstream and going independent. Here's my counter take, which I really came home with the gambling story. Recently at NBA, there is a new media bubble, and it's in sports. And it's entirely because FanDuel and DraftKings have propped up way too many people with opinions. And when there is even a modest pushback on prop bets and the rest of the bullshit that these sports books are allowed to send you, PM pardon my take. And maybe two or three others are going to make it. Everybody else is going to get wiped out. There are way too many sports sports podcasts if you're out there. And in my opinion, the biggest bubble is in sports media right now, entirely inflated by the gambling industry. Yeah. Do you have any, do you have any sense what percentage advertising revenues and in sports? Well, I think is gambling, but it. Has to be like 70, 80 to 90%. Yeah, 80 to 90%. I think the Pat McAfee deal was maybe 50% paid for by sports betting. Well, I have a startup to pitch you. There's a new startup that launched that allows you to bet on your bills only fans, child support and last night Ubers wipe.

Wants to stop. The investor in me wants to buy that company. You need a vice clause on your own investments. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I've said as much as I preach against this stuff. If I actually had to open a business, it would be called Game Day loans, like instead of payday loans. And it would float sports betters who are out there who need like an 18 to 25 interest. So that's a free idea out there. Game Day loans. I'm telling you, it'd be a million dollar company. It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. If you want to sell it to fanduel, you're ready. Yeah. What's your last thing? What's your kind of like.

Expense account, Expense account, expense account. But the real reason that we wanted to have you on the show was to help us understand the media landscape. There's been a lot of debate, right? There's been a lot of talk. There's Paramount, Skydance. You have, you know, the free press starting a conversation. You have media. People like to talk about media. So today we're going to talk about media also. I think people have just simplified things way too much. They try and break it down into a binary. Are you legacy media or new media? Right, right. Are you legacy media or new media? We all know it's way more complicated than that. And people like to say if you can't explain something in simple terms, you don't understand it. Yes, but it doesn't apply here. Today we will do it. So we break it down. We have a market map. Market map? Yeah, sort of market map. I'm gonna kind of walk us through a little bit of it, get feedback from Emily and Jordi and Tyler. And if we get anything wrong, take it up with Tyler, because he's the. One that created this, made this graphic. So if there are any errors on it, you know where to go. So we have to start with the mainstream media. What is the mainstream media? Arguably the best. I think it's the best stream, because if you were to pick a stream to do media in, would you want to be in the main one or some alternative one? You want to be in the mainstream. Ideally, I think everyone is on the march to become the mainstream media, but mainstream media is broken down into several subjects sections. You have the legacy media and the traditional media. And why don't you explain the difference? Because a lot of people would say they're the same thing. But a lot of it comes down to the aesthetics. The aesthetics of. You're seeing serif fonts, the New York Times, the Washington Post. When you go over to Fox News, BBC, cnn, you're getting something that feels like it is fighting for its life. It looks like tv. It looks like tv. It looks like tv. I need a little bit more on my. My lab is really doing a number. Here we go. Okay. Is that better? Can you guys hear me? Okay. I got really caught up. This is your Sam Hyde bit. Sam Hyde's TED Talk. Yeah, you know. You know. Okay, so there is a continuum of. There's a gradient that exists between legacy and traditional cnbc. Right in the middle, you have Forbes, you have the Financial Times. And you can kind of tell that as you get towards Business Insider, cnn, you're more in the legacy world, you're. Kind of in the danger zone. You're in the danger zone. David Ellison might be kind of licking his chops, saying, oh, maybe I'll take you over at some point. David Ellison, he's not gonna make a play for the Wall Street Journal, for the Washington Post, for the New York Times. Part of traditional means that you can actually get it via newspaper, right? Or yes, yes, that is key. That's a factor a lot of people. Will put the split divide of like you're new media if you have a blog or your legacy media if you printed it out. But we forget that there is a whole host of mainstream media outlets that do not print out their work. They do not ship a newspaper. And so most of the newspapers you'll see the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the New York Times, those are in the traditional media. Economists, another one. Yes. The Economist, another one. Atlantic. Yes. So this is really the heart and soul, the beating pulse of the mainstream media. But you also have offshoots from each of these areas. So you have the post trading. Let's talk about post trad and why I see this little number right here, Bloomberg. Bloomberg is moving over into post trad media. Obviously that's on the back of Tracy Alloway, Joe Wiesenthal with the Odd Lots podcast. You can think of that as the classic post tradition. What? And Tracy. Yeah, I said Tracy. Oh, you did? Yeah. Tracy Alloway and Joe Weisenthal at the Odd Lots podcast are a great example of post trad media where they come from traditional media. But they have been so early to the podcasting game. They're what, a decade in. Isn't it a decade? I think so, yeah. A decade into that. And so they jumped into the. Bloomberg was really an experiment, you know, from Michael Bloomberg. What if I could just be the news? What if I could create the news? Yes. And so there'd be some frustrations with traditional media and you know, saying, why not me, right? Yes, yes. And so you can see him like he's slightly less traditional than the New York Times, but still, you know, kind of in that. Squarely in that post trad region, we. Also have proto media. I'm not exactly sure why Digg and Hacker News wound up there more just like early online efforts that weren't really trying to play in these weren't trying to be traditional media corporations, media organizations. They weren't telling a story about being new media in any way. They were sort of the pro. But you could almost put Reddit here. We're missing Reddit in some ways, but Reddit was trying to be the front page of the Internet, curate stories. Yeah, I mean, you could probably go all the way up here and add social media and TikTok and stuff, but we want to stay on the media outlets, the folks who really proclaim that they are the media. Right. And so over here we have the post legacy media. And this is a crew of former legacy media folks who have now ventured out into substack and YouTube. Substack and substack. Would you argue that a few years ago, Barry, like the Free Press, would have been there too? Post legacy moved? Well, I think. I think Barry's way down. If I remember correctly, she's in more of the legacy. She was new media. Yes. But now she's in the legacy new media bucket. So, so you're. So if you're. What are these guys? Post legacy. So. So post legacy is where you were up until recently, like a part of. The legacy or traditional media. If you worked for the legacy media in the 2000s, like Alex Heath at Verge, which isn't exactly legacy media, but. At Ford, it's legacy new media. And obviously Bloomberg with Ashlee Vance. If you were working with the legacy media, you didn't jump ship in the 90s, you didn't jump ship in the 2000s, you didn't jump ship in the 2010s. You rode it all out the mid-2020s, and then the mid-2020s, you were like, okay, this legacy media thing isn't working for me anymore. I gotta go out after we got Ashlee Vance and Bloomberg here. So this kind of crossover. Yes, yes, yes. But the Free Press, the Free Press. Barry left the New York Times famously, you know, crazy dust up. And that was in the pre. Post legacy media era. Right before. Right before that started. Yeah, exactly. So she used to be in the new media bucket. Yes, but current. Now she sits in the legacy new media. And that's because there's a whole new wave of new media. And so Andreessen Horowitz is leading the charge here. They have a team that is just called new media, which of course asks the question, what were they doing before? Which was their marketing team. Yes. So they were doing media. It's not like they just started doing media. No, they just started doing new media. Their old media is now known as legacy new media. And so legacy new media also includes the information Buzzfeed, Wired, Vice, organizations that came out and said, we are going to be doing the new media thing. But they said that A decade ago. And so now it's a little bit legacy. Then you also have of course alt media. Vice kind of bridges these two gaps. You have the trappings of a new media organization, but with a little sharper edge over here. You get into the darker dark media zone. You get the Sam Hyde, the Curtis Yarvins, the passage press. Of course we still haven't figured out where Feed Me goes. We'll do that at the end, this at the end. But we can move over to Neo alt media. You have the Adam Friedlands. Yes. So you still have some of the edginess, some of the rebel spirit of your vice magazines, your red scares. But obviously newer products, newer media products launched more recently. Then you also have new media with the nu. That of course is media that covers new metal. So anyone who's, if you're writing a blog about Limp Bizkit or Pod or. Slipknot, that obviously goes in the new media category. So if you were to, if you were to build kind of like the free press for corn fans, you would go in new media and you not new media. And of course we have to talk about the post corporate media category. Chapo Trap House, obviously fitting in there. It's a very funny choice to put that there, but obviously anti corporate, sometimes socialist, sometimes communist, sometimes left wing, but distinctly anti corporate. You're not going to run a lot of ads on a post corporate media. Property, but you might curse some people, you might hire some people on images. Yeah, that's possible. Now we do have the post Neo media. So as you think, you think traditional media, legacy media, regular media, new media, Neo media is the newest Neo tradition we'll get to in a little post Neo media. You can think of it as the most accelerated, the most aggressive, the final, the most cutting edge media properties that are out there. We have Martin Shkreli, he just turns on a live stream. It doesn't. He goes for hours and hours and hours and hours. It's not a media company, it's not a TV show. And he's moving markets, right? Exactly, exactly. Then you have ishowspeed and Mr. Beast. Other examples of post Neo media creators. You of course have had the expert media sphere with Andrew Huberman, Lex Friedman. AI expert, Joe Rogan, UFO expert. And then of course, and then we. Have the neo factual media, more of the analysts focused on the actual truth. One of the really the only truth seeking organizations on the map in general. Where are we? Let's move over, let's zoom out. So traditional media, we know traditional Media, you're printing things out, you're making traditional content, you're instantiating your ideas in traditional ways. And the neo trads are doing this in a new way. This is new media that cosplays as traditional media. So that's tvpn, right? It has some of the aesthetics of an espn. Yes. But it looks and feels. Good job, guys. Thank you. Thank you to the production team. I'm glad you guys like the show. And so Colossus is another good example here. They're obviously, you know, if you look on this map, what is Colossus? There was a debate last week, right? This is part of what started the debate. What is Colossus? Are they writing profiles? Is this journalism? And we just immediately thought, this is obviously neo trad media. There's no other way to look at it. This is traditional print media reborn for the modern era. Yes. And specifically you wind up getting a lot of attention in neo trad media from the old media, from the mainstream media, from the legacy media because you are wearing traditional media clothing. So arena magazine kind of sitting squarely. Between post trad and neo trad. And so if you are the editor of Forbes or Fortune magazine, Fortune magazine has done a cover story on Josh Kushner. Colossus magazine just did a cover story on Josh Kushner and they printed it out. And it's a physical magazine. And so it feels much more like a direct attack and a comparable product as opposed to. If Colossus was just a substack, the editor of Forbes, the editor of Fortune, they would be able to say, well, that's just a substack. What makes us special is we print ours out and mail it. Would you ever do a daily print newspaper? Daily print? I don't think so, but I would do weekly daily print. There's so many hands involved and like material. Getting geofence it to New York, Manhattan. You could have little people and feed me outfits. Yeah. Or I guess the other thing people do. I don't know if you guys remember this paper during COVID called the Drunken Canal, which was like a downtown gossip paper that they put in the news newspaper stand boxes around the city. But that was maybe four times a year or something. But that was really fun because you couldn't really find the content online. It created some tension around discovery. What are they going to publish? Yeah. So then we have neocorporate media. These are like obviously from a corporation that does. That's not media. You have the AWS Developer Tools blog. Let's give it up for them some of the greatest content. You have the OpenAI podcast, Cheeky Pint, which sort of dresses up as Neo Trad in many ways, but also is fully owned and operated by Stripe, a corporation. Then you have the Neo conglomerate media. This is whatever David Ellison is working on. We believe. David and Barry, I want you to take me through. We forgot we could have added UFC as part of this new Neo conglomerate. But then we also have the East Coast. Yeah, the east coast underground. You'll have to explain everything in this section. Yeah, we weren't familiar with this. What's going on? You guys know New York Magazine? Come on. Well, yeah, from the. Andrew Huberman. Is that the New Yorker magazine? No. Is that the New York Times Magazine? No. Is that the New York. New Yorker's New York Magazine? New Yorker is part of Conde Nasty. Okay, okay. New York Times Magazine is part of. The New York Times. Correct. And New York Magazine is something else. Who's it owned by? And it's. Is it supported by like the. It's under. It's under vox. We should nationalize it. Mamdani. Let's do it. Yeah. I mean, that's a big one. You guys should probably know about that one. I feel like. I feel like I love New York Magazine because to come out of the magazine, the New York Times already has a magazine and the New Yorker has a magazine. And you're just like, you know what? New York needed a magazine. That's something that we would say it's the best one. That's the one where I worked. Yes, it does seem cool. And I feel like when you see a New Yorker, a New York Mag profile, it is great. Oh, my God, it's great. Yeah. They have their own special flavor. That's not quite the New Yorker. It's not quite the New York Times Magazine. Right. It's the New York Mag. It's New York Magazine. It's New York Mag. And why Mag? Okay, so why are. Why. Why are these. So you guys have never heard. Okay, you've heard of Puck because you've been on Dylan's podcast. But Tyler, our intern, has not heard of poc and he's heard of all of these other. You haven't heard of Hellgate, you wouldn't know about. That's more of like a New York left leaning. Tyler, do you know Semaphore? No. Okay. Do you know Status? No. Status was started by Oliver Darcy and he came from cnn, I believe. So, like, we should move him maybe over there. But something that's interesting that's happening is some people are logos and some people are faces. Yeah. Like you guys chose to put TVPN as your logo. Yeah. And I'm curious. I'm happy that Feed Me is not my face and it's my logo. You want the brand to grow, but. Feed Me is starting to become more of a platform. Platform company. Bingo. Yeah, I would say. Thank God we left off Punchbowl. Punchbowl. Oh, Punchbowl. Yeah. I mean, they're ex politico. Right. Okay. So what I'm actually hearing is that east coast underground is really sort of a further post tradition. Post legacy. Maybe they're Post Legacy. I think a lot of them are post Legacy. I think the difference between them and like an Alex is a lot of them have raised like tens of millions of dollars to get their things off the ground. But their newsletter. But. So they're thinking less independent. We needed a category for heavily VC backed. You really do. You really do. Because we're going to be watching how those play out in the next few years or months. Yes. Well, are there any. Are there any major, major corrections that you think we should make? Do you think we got any of this wildly wrong? No. I mean, it's really interesting that you guys. The east coast underground thing, because those are the publications that people are like, wringing their hands. Is that like going crazy over in New York City? Sure. And maybe your audience is. I definitely think these folks need to be over here. Yeah. I think we can redistribute the underground. Yes. Because you can basically see it goes like. I mean, New York Magnet's not on the. Less tech, more tech here. And then politics is kind of running through this way. But then over here you have some tech and then over here you have some tech. Yeah, those can be sort of redistributed. Next to each other status. I would call Post legacy, but. Okay, but it's almost like there's some difference because these were started five, ten years ago. Correct. Like Puck is not this year. Puck didn't start this year. Puck started, I think like three years ago. Oh, three years ago. Okay. That is pretty recent. And they raised 20 million. It's not quite as. And they also just acquired airmail, which was great. And Carter, sort of. Can you hit this? Can you hit the gong for puck for raising 20 million? But. But the big story with Puck right now is that they just acquired Airmail. Okay, what's airmail? Who's that? Graydon Carter, the great editor of Vanity Fair. Okay, there we go. So he's more about air mail in the Post. Legacy media airmail was something else. I mean, it still is. It's still in existence, but it's sort of like you go, it's very luxury. So it's like this is what happened in this resort in Sweden. This is like the crazy, like thousand word story about it and every, you know, sort of 20 words, there's a big Hermes ad. So it's like, yeah, but it's subscribers. Zach Meyer in the chat says, I think this needs to be three dimensional to better illustrate their I agree, I agree. Okay, well, that concludes. Well, I'm glad we could clear up the media landscape because there's been so much debate lately and sometimes you need to, you know, expand in order to really help. I mean, we were joking about this being completely schizo, but yeah, we got to add bar stool. Okay, let's make some notes. We'll do a V2 before we release the next iteration, but we'll get something there. Let's go through the mansion section. I want some advice on what is a buy, what is a sell before we.