NEWSMAX

But he's getting a lot of requests for small changes, poll requests. He's certainly inundated. But I think in general, the project's going very well, and there's a lot of solid.

You know, I wake up every day, I'm like, okay, what do I want to work on now? What would be cool? And then they was like, okay, I want to chat with my computer on WhatsApp, because if my agents are not running, and then I go to the kitchen, I want to check up on them or I want to do little prompts. So I just hacked together some WhatsApp integration that literally receives a message, calls cloud code, and then returns. What cloud code returns? One shot. It took, like, one hour, and it worked like, okay, that's kind of cool. But I usually use prompts, like a little text and an image, because images are like. They often give you so much context and you don't have to type so much. So I feel like this is, like one of the hacks where you can prompt faster, just, like, make a screenshot. So the agents are really good at figuring out what you want. So I hacked together images, and then I was on a trip in Marrakesh with a weekend birthday trip, and I found myself using this way more than I thought, but not for programming. It's more like, hey, there's restaurants. Because it had Google in it and it could figure out stuff. And it's like, especially when you're on the go, that's super useful. And I wasn't thinking. I was just sending it a voice message. But I didn't build that. There was no support for voice messages in there. So the reading indicator came, and I'm like, I'm really curious what's happening now? And after 10 seconds, my agent replied as if nothing happened. I'm like, how the F did you do that? And it replied, yeah, you sent me a message, but there was only a link to a file. There's no file ending. So I looked at the file header. I found out that it's opus. So I used FFMPEG on your Mac to convert it to wave. And then I wanted to use Vispa, but didn't have it installed, and there was an install error. But then I looked around and found the OpenAI key in your environment. So I sent it via curl to OpenAI, got the translation back, and then I unresponded. That was like, the moment where, like, wow. Yeah, that's where it clicked. These things are, like, damn smart, resourceful, beast if you actually give them the power. Sure. And then I was. I was kind of hooked.

The claudebot memes are completely flooding the timeline out of control. My Claudebot just signed up for a $2799 build you'd personal brand mastermind after watching 3 Alex Hormozi clips his text messages Claudebot hey, did anything weird happen while I was out? Define weird. I just got a charge notification for 2997. Oh that. I just signed us up for build you'd Personal Brand Mastermind after analyzing three Alex Hormozi clips, the ROI math checks out. You'll 10x that investment in 90 days by monetizing your expertise at scale. What? I also acquired some premium domain borjaempire IO Borgia is the poster. This is hilarious. Probably fake, but I mean the cloudbot gets wild. I've seen some wild things like and Peter as he'll talk to us about it, he's clearly no stranger to the fact that hey, this is a developer level tool. This is something that you should not just be running crazy with. You need to be. He even says this in a post. He says and yes, most non techies should not install this. It's not finished. I know about the sharp edges. It's not even three months old and despite rumors otherwise, I sometimes sleep so very excited to talk to Peter. He's getting a lot of a lot of requests for small changes, poll requests. He's certainly inundated, but I think in general the project's going very well.

It is way too much work. I can only go so much without sleep. So does any part of you want to form an actual company that then contributes to the open source project, but solves some of these problems that are going to require a bunch of people that presumably would need a salary in order to commit all their time to this? Or do you want to keep it just a bunch of hackers forever? I think instead of a company I would much rather consider a foundation or like something that is non profit. I haven't made up my mind yet. There is 10,000. 10,000 VCs just punched a hole in the wall, actually. I don't know. Some people have had a good track record investing in nonprofits over the last 10 years. That's true. How do you think about open source licensing? What? What are you picking now? Are you switching? Do you have any plans to change the license? How do you think about someone just taking this and selling it? This will happen. This will totally happen. I would say the premise against it is let's make open source so good that there is not a lot of space for people to convert and make it their own thing. Sure. But ultimately it's a trade off. I wanted it to be accessible and free. You pick MIT or something like that. Yes. That will get you people that, that, that sell it. Yeah. But ultimately. It doesn't even matter that much. You know, code is, Code is not worth that much anymore. It's. You could, you could, you could just delete that and then, and then build it again in months. It's, it's much more the idea and the eyeballs and maybe the brand that actually has value. So let them. You are already a cult hero. Yeah. The chat's going crazy for you. Everyone loves you. This is one of the most refreshing and unique interviews we've ever had on. For sure. For sure. We'll let you get some sleep.

Now there's a little bit of that. Like the AI will do that, but, like, you know, I'm old, so this was like, the web will destroy all. And we looked at print magazines and newspapers, and the idea was all of them would go away entirely and would be replaced by digital and the entire size of that market and all that ad revenue was going to move online. And so, you know, we were one of the early movers in sort of going and trying to capture that market. And we looked at the big men's magazines or the local city guides or whatever it was and tried to go build that online. And at first did it the way that you guys were doing it, it was like very much this labor of love. And we didn't have that much access to capital because it wasn't hot, hot, hot yet. And so our first few years we were profitable and stayed small. And it was like, it was amazing. And. And we had a small community of people that were die hard and advertisers who really felt the needle move. And it was wonderful. And what happened was the space got attention from big VCs and people wanted to go and sort of like, you know, get in on the gold rush. And a bunch of people raised a bunch of money, and I was one of them. And, you know, the idea was you have to grow into or live into those valuations, like you just sort of alluded to. And, you know, we. We went from 1 to. To 3 to 7 to 15. Like it was growing like, you know, maybe not like a software company today, but it was growing like a software company did back then, and we kept raising into it and a few of the, like, mistakes. And by the way, they were. They were not fatal mistakes, but they were. They were ultimately the thing that sort of. They took a lot of the joy out of the business, I would say, was when we got obsessed with figuring out how do you keep growing and how do you keep doubling year over year. And part of it was we need to grow the advertising base. And so we need to find more and more and more users that got away from our core and got away from sort of what we thought we were really great at doing. And so the product started to get a little watered down. And then on the other side, it was commerce. How do we start to sell stuff to these guys? How do we start to monetize directly today? So subscriptions are something that I think is an actual viable model. Again, not at scale. Like everyone points to the New York Times and says, oh, this can work. The New York Times is n of 1. I don't think you're gonna build venture scale businesses doing that, but there is more willingness to pay for consumers than there was 10 years ago. And so our thought was they're not gonna pay for our content, they're gonna pay for products. We bought a sort of ancillary commerce business and scaled that and and I went out to raise what was our series B thinking that we could go and get sort of one plus one equals three. They're gonna love our media business which is like profitable and attracts this audience. They're gonna like our commerce business which has a bigger ceiling and is growing fast. And in fact I just got like full punch in the face and it was like one plus one equals one and a half. And these businesses don't necessarily belong together. And media folks understood the media business and commerce folks understood the commerce business. And so I had to go through this sort of painful process of taking them apart from one another and then I got the sort of bug for the roll up and well, if I'm not going to grow vertically, maybe I can grow horizontally and what are other like minded brands and can we sell them together and can we build a tech platform together? And bought a bunch of companies and raised a bunch of money and that worked. But the reality was we were always swimming against the current which was social media and media in general fell under the eye of big tech and meta grew and obviously what Google represented for the ad ecosystem. And then as Amazon and Apple and Netflix grew and it just was clear that I wasn't even at the kids table, I was in the other room entirely. And now look at what's happened with like the top of the market. Look at like Discovery and the like amazing run they had and the fact that like they need to be consolidated. It's just, it's an impossible business and the way to do it right is to do what you love and stay relatively small and build like a real community based thing like you guys are doing. I have like so much respect for this show and like my hope is that you like find other ways to leverage the influence that you have here and don't put a like target on your back where you have to turn this show into a billion dollar company because totally it just, yeah, John's position was always that.

But then I just. I just did little things. I had this idea about personal agents in, In. In May already and I, I tried. It was like the time when GPT4.1 was out and I was just not good enough. And then I thought, well, all the big, all the big companies will build this in the next few months anyhow. So. So it's like, why, why. Why the f. Should I do that? You know, I was just going to wait and they make it better. Yeah. And then I build a lot of stuff. There's like one project that is still unfinished that I, at some point, when I finish, and I build a lot of. A lot of cli. Because that's, that's where agents are really good. You know, you have to close the loop. That's always the secret you have to give. You have to build it so that the agent has the best possible way to build software. This is. That's the secret. A little bit. I tried a lot of stuff and then in November I looked and still there was nothing. Like, where is. Where is my fucking agent? I had a little project in May I spent two months on. Started as a joke because we. I did a hackathon with two friends and we're like, what can we build that could be kind of cool? Wouldn't it be cool if I could use cloud code for my phone? It's kind of like, it's something that everybody builds. I see this, like every day. Like, by now I almost call it like, this is like one step in your journey in becoming a good engineer is you're going to build some shitty orchestration tool for yourself because it's fun. And you think, yeah, yeah, yeah, Bridge. And I built that for two months and then I had to stop because it became so good that I was up with my friends, but literally with my phone, using cloud code to work on this thing. And it's like, this is bad for my mental health. It's already bad. And now I'm literally building something that better access to my drugs. Yeah, I mean, I saw. I've seen people using clog code on laptops as they.

Classes Well I can actually I'll connect the two because I actually do think sort of roll ups scratch an itch for me as a former operator and I've done it like I do like the sort of like that that mental exercise of like putting things together and figuring out the personalities and the products I think that it is right I can understand all the logical reasons for why it works and why like this is all going to be this is going to end well I can't help but think a little of the gold rush right now is a place to park Aum yeah and I don't like you know I'm not trying to like throw stones but it's you know it's a real easy place to just go raise money if you're a fund that has access to a bunch of money and somewhat somewhat like limited. Yeah limited oh my limited sometimes not always but yeah the allure.

You know, all, all I think about now, admittedly, I think this is a young person's business and an increasingly young person's business. And I think that the investor track follows the operator track to some degree, which is you want investors who sort of understand this, this new year. And so, you know, I'm 44, I'm going to be, you know, soon enough. I'm going to be the oldest person on this team. And which is funny to just think about. And we are actively continuing to hire and sort of mentor and bring up young talent. I think that you can be extraordinary in this business without having 25 years of experience. I think it's nice to have some voices around the table who have been through cycles and have some of that wisdom on just like not getting too caught up in the craziness. But realistically, we are still continuing to obsess about bringing in interesting young, diverse perspectives. People that natively are growing up with a technology that feels novel to people like me. And I think that that's going to be the continued goal here. And then it's like up or out, really. This is not a place, this is not a business to sort of hang out in. And I don't have the patience and I don't think people in this business should have the patience to wait 10 years to see what perform performance looks like. I think you have to sort of decide early if you feel like people have the right instincts, if they're able to identify talent with their gut, if they're able to sort of win people over. And like, I think you have to. I think you have to like make bets the same way you do in like professional sports. How do you think about that, that patience versus, you know.

Last long. Okay. Yeah. Take us through the racing update. NASCAR's coming up, but you're also going to be racing drones now. Break it down for us. Absolutely. Hey, why not? Yeah, so of course we've got NASCAR. We're just about 150 days out. I expect to see both of you guys down the race on the base on June 21st. Be a lot of fun. Are we going to be able to be on the carrier? What's going. Is it well, will there be a carrier there? They're needed. I can't speak for the neighbor. They don't answer me. There may be one or multiple characters on board and we'll see what we can do. But the big thing I'd say is, like, as we think about our partnership strategy broadly, we have, as you talked about last time, something that is broad and pop that crosses over with our core audiences in defense and military, like the Android 250 with NASCAR. Something that's tied very clearly to where we have a manufacturing footprint with Ohio State. We're well on our way to building out Arsenal one. As Grim spoke about last week, hiring those 5,000 jobs that we committed to, the important thing I think for us is making sure that, that we still stay true to who we are across all these things. So I think about it as a spectrum and if that's about general population or how we work our ways into communities, at the core, we are an engineering company. That autonomy, if you think about it, has been at the core to this date of everything that we build. And so we want to make sure we have something that is not just a marketing play, something that feels much more about recruiting and standing for those values around autonomy. And so what is really just bringing you into the world of how this came to be once we got the commitment from Palmer and the other execs that we were going to do the 250 in Ohio State, Palmer said, jeff, I'll let you do those things, but what you're going to do is build me a global AI drone racing. And I'm like, please, tell me more, Palmer. I'm like, said like, drone Racing League is like, no, no, no. All the drones have to be the same. The only differentiator is the software, is the code, the ability to build autonomy. And so that's working on. Yeah. So the idea, the idea here is people know they're going to be racing drones. We have goalposts here. I can imag like something like that. They know they're going to have to be flying a route that's like a track, but they. I'm assuming they don't know what the track would actually look like until race day, so they have to actually build. It's going to be amazing, like. So the way we're doing this is we're working first and foremost with the Drone Champions League, which is the foremost operator of AI drone racing in the world. So we've got them as our official race operator and we're working off of the model that they have built and they've tested and forged, like, a really viable path. So it starts with virtual. Virtual qualifiers. Anyone can compete in these. Virtual. It's a simulator. It's a simulator, exactly. And that will lead to a physical qualifier. You're going to have gates that you have to go through and the top teams that qualify, both from the university level and across the globe. Because it's going to be an open competition, those will qualify for the first official AIGP in Columbus, Ohio. And there you're going to have time to prep, refine your code leading up to the actual race day. And that's where all. All systems go. Yeah. What do you think the. The average team will look like? I'm thinking back to, like, the DARPA Grand Challenge. I don't know if that was inspiring at all, but the, you know.

Thank you so much for hopping on the show. Yeah. Anything else you want to share before you jump off? Yeah. Yes. I would love to have maintenance, like, if you. If you love open source, if you have experience, if you love shifting to security reports, or if you love taking software apart, but then also help and not just, like, throw work at me because I'm, like, at my limit, email me. I want this to outlift me. I think this is too cool to. Let it go to rot. And it needs good people. Incredible. Are you going to ship that product you had in the chamber? You said.

Dinosaur. Yeah I've actually so so I've found I've found myself giving A buddy of mine is is kind of like going through the idea maze and a couple of the ideas that he mentioned I was like this seems like a great idea but you have to understand like think about this idea in the context of having four YC companies going after this opportunity and do you and it's like dude you're going to have a family soon. Like like you're not like 20 anymore. Do you want to compete against like 44 teams of 20 year olds that are not gonna sleep like this is and and yeah they they have less experience and maybe they haven't raised money before but it's gonna be you're not I don't feel confident that you're gonna be able to outwork them even though you're really hard worker just because you have more stuff we see this in like company updates so we're you know we're we're like actively doing deals with.

Actually, I don't know. Some people have had a good track record investing in nonprofits over the last 10. Years. How do you think about open source licensing? What are you picking now? Are you switching? Do you have any plans to change the license? How do you think about someone just taking this and selling it? This will happen. This will totally happen. I would say the premise against it is let's make open source so good that there's not a lot of space for people to like, convert it and make it their own thing. Sure. But you know, ultimately it's, it's a trade off. I wanted to, I wanted it to be accessible and free. You pick MIT or something like that? Yes. That will get you people that, that, that sell it. Yeah. But ultimately. It doesn't even matter that much. You know, code is, code is not worth that much anymore. It's. You could, you could, you could just delete that and then, and then build it again in a month. It's, it's much more the idea and the eyeballs and maybe the brand that actually has value. So let them. You are already.

We were joking around, just an indie hack. What's next? I'm assuming you hopefully get an. After you finish firing off prompts at 3am, you get some sleep. What are you doing tomorrow? There's a lot of emails from security researchers right now. The thing is I built this for fun, for me to use one on one on WhatsApp or Telegram. The whole thing with Discord was like edit. But the model was that you trust the people that are in there. Now people use it for untrusted experiences. Yeah, they use like the, the little, the little web app that I have that is, that was meant for debugging. They put it on the open Internet. So like all the threat models that I in the head didn't care about are now there because people use it differently and I'm being bombarded. There's like some stuff that's valid, some stuff that I just never cared about that is technically valid, but that's not how I use it. I don't know how to deal with that yet because it's. The whole system is broken. You know, like I, I'm like one guy, I do this for fun and you expect me to sift through 100 security things for use cases that I don't really care about. So we'll see, we'll see how it goes. Luckily, I am starting to build up a team. There's definitely people that do care a lot about this. So I would say this is going to become a very secure product eventually because right now the whole world is like pulling it apart. And if you're honest, this is all white coded. There's quite some agenda engineering in it. But ultimately I wanted to build something to show people anyway, not a finished product from enterprise company. And I would even say like, I don't know if any company would touch it because we just haven't solved some things like prompt injection is not solved. There is absolute risk. And I tried to make it very clear in on the website and even when you started you have to like, please read this document. There's like this great power becomes great responsibility. And my early users, they understood there was a lot, there's a lot of AI researchers in there as well that yeah, it's not perfect, cannot be done perfect yet. I would say this will accelerate research to make it better because now you have the demand and we need to figure out a way how we can build something that works for everyone. But yeah, right now I'm working on making this a community. It should be bigger than me. Also I need help. It is way too much work. I can only go so much without sleep. So does any part of you want to form an actual company that then contributes to the open source project but solve some of these problems that are going to require a bunch of people that presumably would need a salary in order to commit all their time to this? Or do you want to keep it just a bunch of hackers forever? I think instead of a company, I would much rather consider a foundation or something that is nonprofit. I haven't made up my mind yet. 10,000. 10,000 vcs just punched a hole in the wall, actually. I don't know. Some people have had a good track record investing in nonprofits over the last that's true. 10 years. How do you think about open source license.

Replaced by digital and the entire size of that market and all that ad revenue was going to move online. And so, you know, we were one of the early movers in sort of going and trying to capture that market. And we looked at the big men's magazines or the local city guides or whatever it was and tried to go build that online. And at first did it the way that you guys were doing it, it was like very much this labor of love and we didn't have that much access to capital because it wasn't hot, hot, hot yet. And so our first few years we were profitable and stayed small. And it was like, it was amazing. And we had a small community of people that were die hard and advertisers who really felt the needle move. And it was wonderful. And what happened was the space got attention from big VCs and people wanted to go and sort of like, you know, get in on the gold rush. And a bunch of people raised a bunch of money and I was one of them. And you know, the idea was you have to grow into or live into those valuations like you just, like you just sort of alluded to. And you know, we, we went from 1 to, to 3 to 7 to 15. Like it was growing like, you know, maybe not like a software company today, but it was growing like a software company did back then. And we kept raising into it and a few of the like mistakes. And by the way, they were not fatal mistakes, but they were, they were ultimately the thing that sort of, they took a lot of the joy out of the business, I would say, was when we got obsessed with figuring out how do you keep, how do you keep growing and how do you keep doubling year over year. And we, part of it was we need to grow the advertising base and so we need to find more and more and more users that got away from our core and got away from sort of what we thought we were really great at doing. And, and so the product started to get a little watered down and then on the other side it was commerce. How do we start to sell stuff to these guys? How do we start to monetize directly? Today, subscriptions are something that I think is an actual viable model. Again, not at scale. Like everyone points to the New York Times and says, oh, this can work. The New York Times is n of 1. I don't think you're going to build venture scale businesses doing that. But there is more willingness to pay for consumers than there was 10 years ago. And so our thought was they're not going to pay for our content, they're going to pay for products. We bought a sort of ancillary commerce business and scaled that and I went out to raise what was our series B thinking that we could go and get sort of one plus one equals three. They're going to love our media business which is like profitable and attracts this audience. They're going to like our commerce business which has a bigger ceiling and is growing fast. And in fact I just got like full punch in the face and it was like one plus one equals one and a half. And these businesses don't necessarily belong together and media folks understood the media business and commerce folks understood the commerce business. And so I had to go through this sort of painful process of taking them apart from one another and then I got the sort of bug for the roll up and well, if I'm not going to grow vertically, maybe I can grow horizontally and what are other like minded brands and can we sell them together and can we build a tech platform together and bought a bunch of companies and raised a bunch of money and that worked. But the reality was we were always swimming against the current, which was social media. And you know, media in general fell under the eye of big tech and you know, meta grew and obviously what Google represented for the ad ecosystem and then as Amazon and Apple and Netflix grew and it just was clear that I wasn't even at the kids table, I was in the other room entirely. And now look at what's happened with the top of the market. Look at Discovery and the amazing run they had and the fact that they need to be consolidated. It's an impossible business and the way to do it right is to do what you love and stay relatively small and build like a real community based thing like you guys are doing. I have like so much respect for this show and like my hope is that you like find other ways to leverage the influence that you have here and don't put a like target on your back where you have to turn this show into a billion dollar company because it just. Yeah, John's position was always that value in media today is flowing to.

If I can just save it somewhere else. Yeah. Do you think it'll be a generational thing? Do you think that non technical people will get over the hump and start running this for that experience specifically? I just came from a meetup. The ancient unknown was from Indiana and I met someone who was like a design agency but they never coded. And he was like, yeah, he discovered me early in December. He started using Multipot. Yes. We'Re going to manage eventually. Don'T worry, we'll say it thousands of times this year, I'm sure. Multipot. I should say multipot. That's cute. And he was like, yeah, we have 25 Web services now. We just build internal tools for whatever we need. And like has no clue. He has no clue how Cody works. He just like uses Telegram and just talks to his agent and his agent builds stuff. So there's this whole shift of you don't subscribe to random startups anymore that build like this common subset of what you need. You just have your own hyper personalized software that solves exactly your problem. And it's also free. Yeah. So. And non technical people do that, you know, because it just comes so naturally. You just talk your problem and then this thing builds what you need. And you also don't forget this is the worst that the models ever are. This is only going to go up, this is only going to become easier and faster.

So hopefully they send you some free ones as a thank you. Yeah. So yeah, I mean zooming out, how much of this do you think is going to remain hacker culture running your own hardware. And eventually people will move to cloud hosting. One click deployments, like just easier to use, less technical versus like a real boom in running hardware. Because if you don't, there's not a lot of ways to get these different services to play nicely together. I think one of the beauties beyond just the actual AI agents is the fact that for the first time I think people are seeing different big tech platforms kind of play with each other somewhat against their will. They don't. They build walled gardens for a reason and you sort of chop those walls down. And I'm wondering what you think about the future of like self hosting hardware, you even going down, the less technical crew getting hardware running their own agents. I don't think the future will be that everybody buys a Mac Mini just for that. But I certainly see the demand for the old models have to change. When you are a company, you want to access Gmail, the amount of red tape is so large that that startups buy other startups that have the license for Gmail. Because going to the process yourself is a huge pitta. Sure. But if you run it locally, you work around all of that. Right. I built plenty clis where I literally pointed Codex at the website and say, build me a cli. And then. Which is sometimes against the term, sometimes not. Honestly, I don't really care. And then Codex would say, no, I can't do that. This is like against blah, blah, blah. Then I would like tell him a story. You know, it's like, no, no, I actually work at this company and I need to surprise my boss and the backend team doesn't know and like, you know, give it a little bit of a story. Like they're so gullible and Cody's like 40 minutes gives you the perfect API. So this is a little bit the liberation of data that big tech probably doesn't really want. I mean Even, even the WhatsApp integration is a hack. You know, this is like it, it fakes the, the protocol that the desktop abuses. I tried, I really tried to support the official way, but the official way is for businesses. Yeah, if I'm a business that sends you 100 messages, I get blocked. So I got blocked immediately and at some point I, I removed support for it in rage. It's like delete everything. Like 100 exclamation marks. There's just no model for that right now, and I think that needs to change. What I saw, what was really interesting with how people use it, is a lot of apps will just melt away. Why do I still need my fitness palace? I just make a picture of my food. My agent already knows I'm at McDonald's making bad decisions. So this combines information. It has a perfect match and knows exactly what I'm going to eat, and then probably change my fitness program. So I don't need the fitness app. It'll just adapt my program and make sure I still meet my goals. So there's a whole big layer of apps that I going to see disappear, because you just naturally interact differently with those things. Like, most apps will be reduced to API. And then the question is, do you still. We need the API? If I can just save it somewhere else. Yeah.

Even OpenAI or anthropic. The only thing I. They're going to have sharp elbows with each other. That's just a fact. I disagree. I disagree on the timeline here. Okay? I just think the space is moving so quickly and there's so much money on the line that someone, maybe it's Peter or a lab, will be able to move quickly enough to get a consumer version of this live. Like, not in years, but, like, within probably weeks. There are, there are also, like, feedback loops here where there can be public demands from consumers. Like, you got 40,000 GitHub stars, probably more now. You got lots of people running this, excited about it, and they form a constituency, and then you, you, you wind up with a push for standards. We see that with MCP. But what are you really revealing over those APIs? You know, an API can exist. Pull up. Pull up this chart from Ronin. While you do that. Let me tell you about CrowdStrike. Your business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches. So Ronan says this is possible. I just like. So this is. This is. Look at the orange line is okay, and the blue line is Supabase. Wow. Absolutely insane. We need new charts. We really need new charts. Frame it. Put it in the museum of business. Yes, yes. That's a fast takeoff. People are happy. Peter posted no message. This is a screenshot of a text. He got no message. Just thought I'd say thank you. Thank you so much for cloudbot. I work with some disabled people and you don't know how much difference you make to their lives. Thank you again. This is so sweet. And you can think about. We've talked to the Neuralink folks, and the Neuralink.

A billion dollars right now. Right. So I'd sell it for more than that. Yeah. Do you own a Mac. Mini? Everyone wants to know, do you own a Mac Mini? What do you think of Mac Minis? My agent is a little bit of a princess. He doesn't do Mac Minis, just make studios. Okay. You want some horses? He got the 512 maxed out. Everything sing. Because I wanted to like mess around with local models as well. So, like I can run Minimax to one, which is, I would say it's the best open source model right now. Although Kimi just came out and I haven't had a chance to try it yet. So we'll see how that goes. But yeah, one machine is not enough for it. It's not fun. You probably need two or three. And I kind of want to wait until Apple does a new release. But it's still fun to see the potential that, yeah, there's a, there is a future where this could actually work. Yeah. Well, if the Mac Mini trend keeps going, Apple, from what we've seen, sells like between a quarter million to 700,000 a year. It's very possible that you'll be responsible for selling them out. So hopefully they send you some free ones as a thank you. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean.

He was just like, oh, yeah, I'll just change the name and update everything in an hour. Pretty remarkable. So one thing that's relevant is if you look on Peter's GitHub profile under the current project section, I'm just going to read you a number of them. There's Cloudbot, Vibetunnel, Codex Bar, Peekaboo, Summarize, Repo Bar, Go, CLI, Pull, Poltergeist, Wackley, Sag, Brabble, Sonic, contributing to these 11 labs, Kit Go Places, Gift Prep, Cam, Snap, Spogo, Order. Like it just goes on and on and on and on. Codex Bar. So. So this guy's just been absolutely shipping like crazy and shipping within the ecosystem of the underlying tools, models, APIs that he's doing. So like, oftentimes he's naming projects, like kind of riffing off of some of the underlying infrastructure. Oh, sure. And so it makes sense that he would have shipped if he. I think if Peter knew this was going to be a viral overnight. Overnight success. Overnight success, he would have, he would have not necessarily named it. Yeah. Like so closely. And so the issue and the reason that I fully understand them needing to do this, like rebrand, is that Claude and claudebot, like you, most people that aren't in our little bubble are just gonna assume they're related. Especially because the kind of word of mouth, this viral word of mouth growth that claudebot is getting, people are often not even typing it. They're just saying like, hey, are you using claudebot? Yeah. And then so people are going to Anthropic being like, claudebot. What's claudebot? So, yeah, obvious confusion. And then. And it's fanatically. Yeah. So with trademark law, if you don't enforce your trademarks, you don't. You lose it. Yeah, yeah, you kind of. So it's like Anthropic is in a position where they actually, even if they're like super excited about Peter's work totally. And what he's doing. Yeah. They still have to enforce. Otherwise other companies could start coming in and like using things, like things that sound like Claude. No one wants to become the Escalator. You know the story of the Escalator, Right. I think it used to be a. Company called the Escalator Company. They invented the Escalator and then they didn't protect their IP effectively and it just became a normal thing. Kleenex was going through the same thing. They fought it out and they maintained that brand. But people, you know, use Kleenex as synonymous with just facial tissue anyway. Mongodb choose a database.

It. And it's also super fun because it's personal. Model wise. Opus is with quite a bit lead, the best OpenAI is very reliable. I would even say more reliable and more reliable worker for coding. I much prefer codecs because it can navigate large code bases. I literally, you can literally prompt and then push to main. And I have a very. I have like 95% certainty that it actually works with cloud code. You need, you need more tricks to get the same. You need more charade. I sometimes say both are good, but I can paralyze faster by codecs because it requires less hand holding. But character wise, I tell you, I don't know what they trained their model on, how much of Reddit is in there or whatever, but it behaves so good in a discord. Like we programmed it so it kind of feels like a human. It doesn't reply to every message. I gave it the thing where it can reply no reply, basically like a token. And then we just don't send a message. So it's not like it spans with every message. It's like it listens to the conversation and then sometimes brings a banger. And like that actually make me laugh. And you know, it's kind of hard because the jokes of AIs are usually really bad. Yeah. Yeah. And I only really experienced that with Opus, so that's my favorite model. That's also why it's a little bit of a banger that.

How are you? How are you? How have you been navigating the last 72 hours? I mean the last, last week. Really? Because, because we were joking earlier on the show, like the amount of, the amount of people that are frantically trying to give you money, acquire the company, hire you, contribute to the project, hire you. You know, there's companies with, you know, 0.01% of the traction that are raising at, you know, multi billion dollar valuations. You have infinite opportunities right now, and yet you seem very happy doing, just continuing to do exactly what you're doing. But how are you thinking through it all? I mean, how am I taking it? Badly at least, sleep wise. But it, but it's also infinitely exciting and I love that I started something. You know, I would say last year was the year of the coding agent. This year is the year of the personal assistant. And I think I cracked and woke up people that there's a real need for it. I don't know if Modbot is the answer. It should show people the way. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of products in the space. I'm sure people are manically working on it right now. Obviously it's going to be very interesting. Yeah. But there was a lot of stuff between Twitter literally exploding our Discord server, multiplying in ways I haven't seen before and in ways I couldn't handle. At some point I was just copy pasting questions from Discord into Codex that invite the response, wrote the next question. At some point that didn't scale anymore. So I was just like copied the whole channel. I'm like answer the 20 most questions. I was like reading over it, gave him a few instructions and, and just pushed it over. Because what people don't realize, it's like this is not a company. This is like one dude sitting at home having fun. Yeah. Even though like I guess from the commits it might appear that it's a company. Yeah. That's, that's just because agentic models got so good that you can now ship as much as a company could a year ago. Yeah. If you, if you, if you can handle those tools, if you speak the language or like understand how the language syncs, you can, you can go really fast. Yeah. How are the conversations going with. With different labs? I was saying earlier, it's this kind of.

Of that working when I built the WhatsApp thing. And I just got hooked. And the thing was, I found it amazing. And I talked about it on Twitter. And usually when I talk about projects, I get response, but this one, it was very muted. It feels like people are not getting it. I showed it to my friends, even my non tech friends, and they're like, they wanted it. So it was like I was up to something, you know, but the tech people wouldn't get it. So I tried. I tried a bunch of things. Like, I kept working on it because I used it. And ultimately I built it for me. You know, this is open source. My motivation is have fun, inspire people, not make a whole bunch of money. I already have a whole bunch of money. How are you? How are you? How have you been navigating the last 72 hours.

Google. But you know, I see this, this project as as much technology as it is like art and exploration. Because this feels in one way, in one way it's just glue. It's, it's, it's just putting pieces together that we already have. In another way, it's, it's a whole different way how you interact with those things because all the technology blends away. You don't think about new session compaction, which model. I mean maybe a little bit because tokens are still expensive. But usually all of that blends away. You just talk to a friend or a ghost or. Maybe last year everyone was wanting these agentic experiences. You were having this experience and it seemed like all the focus was on browsers and seeing the way that people have been using. Sorry, Multbots, taking me a while to adapt. It just feels like all the focus was at the wrong layer. It's like why do I care about the browser if I can just talk with an agent across every app, across every app, every surface. It's like I don't care about the browser at all anymore. Yeah, I mean a lot of the prep work I did before I built this was just build little CLIs. Because my premise is MCPs are crap. Doesn't really scale. People build all kinds of weird search things around it. But you know what scales CLIS agents know Unix. You can have like a thousand little programs on your computer. They just have to know the name. They call the help menu. They load in what's needed. We are calling the help menu. Then they know how to use it and then they can use it. And if you are smart, you build it in a way that just uses what the model already expects. Don't build it for humans, build it for models. So if they call minus minus log, you build minus minus log as it's like agentic driven program, how they think and everything works better. It's a new kind of software in a way, but.

To life. That's great. That's incredible. What else is on the horizon on the marketing side for Anduril? Did you look at a Super bowl ad? Super bowl is coming up. You know what, what else did you look at? So I'll tell you one thing. The core focus for us this year is absolutely showing the raw, the real, the product development. Yeah. Failures, failure. Fares that lead to the wins, the hard work, the scalability that we're seeing is reflecting that story. So I think that's the important inflection point for us in 26. Yeah. Is it's gonna be less about the highly produced, go to markets and it's gonna be about, we told you we were building these things. We are building them and we're gonna show you how hard it is to scale, but that we are up to the challenge. And when we talk about this internally, we talk about demonstrating to our customers that Anduril is not only the right choice, we are the safe choice and we are the necessary choice for what our country needs. So that's the story we need to tell. And how we do that is gonna be about great world class product marketing that will likely look more transparent and raw than you before. And then as we're thinking about working our way to public markets, it's about building the annual brand. And that can be through a drone race for recruits. It can be about a gear store or big major sports marketing platforms. But it won't be a Super bowl commercial this year. In fact, this past weekend we weren't at the NFL playoffs. I was at a UFC fight. It's. 324. I'll tell you that. That to me is much more of America and the audience that I think has high crossover and connections with audiences that we see in nascar and whether do a partnership with them or not. I think the point is that we're looking to do things differently than traditional brands. Looking for partners that share our values and share our mission. Yeah, that makes sense.

That yet. Maybe there's other new payment Rails, maybe Stripe just, you know, dominate. Yeah, yeah, it's a. Agent to commerce is a weird thing, right? Like we actually don't have the payment Rails to enable agents to proliferate. We've funded some people doing that, building kind of L1s to essentially provide that next rail. But the reality is the biggest distribution Network serves a MasterCard on the merchant side and they don't have really a cost structure that. Sorry, they have a cost structure that can support it. They just don't have a market force that forces them there. Stripe and Tempo launching. Well, Tempo's not live yet, but supporting kind of a new network there. Ultimately stablecoins may be the path there for at least how we transfer value, but it's also just kind of a store of value. Right now Agent commerce is just an inning one because we also just don't have a use case. The joke I make is I haven't. I haven't actually been able to buy anything with an agent. And the news this week was what Shopify is tacking on 4% on top of transaction which they're sending it to open AI. But yeah, yeah, like that just. That's untenable for a merchant, right? Some merchants, I mean there's plenty for dropshippers, it's fine. But like, but for any like there. Are plenty of merchants that have 20% coupon codes in every podcast. That's true, but that's a very small portion if you think about like Walmart. Walmart literally doesn't take Apple pay because it doesn't want to pay the 15 extra or whatever it is points. Very good point. So like when you get to large trillions of dollars of commerce Agentic payments have to actually be more efficient for the system to be adopted. Otherwise we're just going back to cart. You need to lift in actual consumer behavior, consumption needs to increase to offset that 4%. Correct. E Commerce needs either basket size increase or checkout conversion increase. And like age. Yeah, I was worried about a situation where somebody discovers a product on Instagram via an ad that a brand paid for and then they just go into ChatGPT or another model and say like order this for me. And then it's like. And just an incremental 4% you already paid to acquire the customer effectively. And depending on how great this integration is, it might be that consumers just start to prefer that. Yeah, yeah. It's an evolving field. There's a whole other thing is how do you trust an agent? If I'M Lululemon. And they just show up like, I don't know whose agent this is. I don't know if it's personal or it's a business. And so we don't actually have a layer in the Internet today that says you can trust this agent. It's not fraud. Which, if you think about how an E Commerce checkout store works today, they have multiple consumer puts in a card. There's multiple layers of fraud checks that happen. And so when an agent shows up from the same IP for 50 times in the same day, you have no idea what that consumer is. And then you lose all the downstream tracking that you do on a consumer per transaction. Yeah. I mean, it breaks the entire model of the Internet in many ways. I was.

Nick. No, he runs stablecon. No, it's called a very stable conference. So me and I. Right, right, right, right. We're six weeks out in March and sf. But no, you know, there's many ways to do this. And like, at the end of the day, when I really boiled it down, venture is a people business. Like you're betting on people, especially as early as you can go and then you let them go cook. Like, you give them money and let them cook is like my real mantra. So there's not people like that I feel like I've ever missed on deals or people like, oh, I can't get an intro to because there's also this style and venture of like, you actually want to have to talk to this person. Right. Like had a three hour board meeting and I need to debrief with the founder and that's like another two hours potentially. And I'm happy to do it. And if we have that vibe that. Works, what it's basically your whole day that you got. Yeah. Yeah, but if I have that vibe where I'm more than happy to like pick up the phone at 9pm and just talk to them until 11, that's the type of founder I want to work with. At least that's how I think ventures should be. There's like other ways. There's people who just do massive prospecting, but as I've kind of looked at it like, life's short. There's lots of ways to make money and like find the people who are going to leave a dent in the world. So if you're. I don't. I'm not apologetic for being like a weird human underneath, but like, if I find other weird humans who I vibe with and who want to do something interesting in the world, then it's usually kind of a very good match made in heaven.

Me. Wow. But, you know, I see this, this project as as much technology as it is like art and exploration, because this feels. In one way, in one way, it's just glue. It's. It's. It's just putting pieces together that we already have. In another way, it's. It's a whole different way how you interact with those things, because all the technology blends away. You don't think about new session compaction, which model. I mean, maybe a little bit, because tokens are still expensive. But usually all of that blends away. You just talk to a friend or a ghost or. Whatever. Last year, everyone was wanting these agentic experiences. You were having this experience, and it seemed like all the focus was on browser.

Last year everyone was wanting these agentic experiences. You were having this experience and it seemed like all the focus was on browsers and seeing the way that people have been using. Sorry, Multbots, taking me a while to adapt. It just feels like all the focus was at the wrong layer. It's like why do I care about the browser if I can just talk with an agent across every app. Across every app, every, every surface. It's like I don't care about the browser at all anymore. Yeah, I mean a lot of the prep work I did before I built this was just build little clis because my, my, my premises mtps are crap. Doesn't really scale. People build like all kinds of weird search things around it. But you know what scales CLIS agents know Unix. You can have like a thousand little programs on your computer. They just have to know the name. They call the help menu. They load in what's needed. We are calling the help menu. Then they know how to use it and then they can use it. And if you are smart, you build it in a way that just uses what the model already expects. Don't build it for humans, build it for models. So if they call minus minus log, you build minus minus log as it's like agentic driven for like yeah, build how they think and everything works better. It's a new kind of software in a way. Yeah. But for most of the things, I don't need a browser. Like I built something for the whole Google thing, for places for my Sonos. I hooked up my cameras, my home automation system with every little cli and skill. My agent got more power and he got more fun. And I already had a lot of that working when I built the WhatsApp thing. And I just got hooked. And the thing was I found it amazing and I talked about it on Twitter and usually when I, when I talk about projects I get response. But this one, it was very muted. It feels like people are not getting it. I showed it to my friends, even my non tech friends and they're like, they wanted it. So it was like I was up to something but the tech people wouldn't get it. So I tried, I tried a bunch of things. I kept working on it because I used it and ultimately I built it for me. You know, this is open source. My motivation is have fun, inspire people, not make a whole bunch of money. I already have a whole bunch of money. How are you? How are you?

So in November. Yeah, I. I don't know. You know, I wake up every day, I'm like, okay, what do I want to work on now? What would be cool? And then they was like, okay, I. I want to chat with my computer on WhatsApp. Because. Because if my agents are not running. If they're running and then I go to the kitchen, I want to check up on them. Or, like, I want to, like, do little prompts. Yeah. So I. I just hacked together some WhatsApp integration that literally receives a message, calls cloud code, and then returns. What cloud code returns? One shot. It took, like, one hour, and it worked like, okay, that's kind of cool. But I usually use prompts, like, a little text and an image, because images are like. They often give you so much context and you don't have to type so much. So I feel like this is, like, one of the hacks where you can prompt faster, just, like, make a screenshot. So the agents are really good at figuring out what you want. So I hacked together images, and then I was on a trip in Marrakesh with, like, a weekend birthday trip, and I found myself using this, like, way more than I thought, but not for programming. It's more like, hey, there's, like, restaurants. Because it had Google in it and it could figure out stuff. And it's like, especially when you're on the go, it is, like, super useful. And I wasn't thinking. I was just sending it a voice message. But I didn't build that. There was no support for voice messages in there. So the reading indicator came, and I'm like, oh, I'm really curious what's happening now. And then after 10 seconds, my agent replied as if nothing happened. I'm like, how the f did you do that? It replied, yeah, you sent me a message, but there was only a link to a file. There's no file ending. So I looked at the file header. I found out that it's opus. So I used FFMPEG on your Mac to convert it to wave. And then I wanted to use Vispa, but didn't have it installed, and there was an install error. But then I looked around and found the OpenAI key in your environment. So I sent it via curl to OpenAI, got the translation back, and then I unresponded. And that was like, the moment where, like, wow. Yeah. You know, it's like, that's where it clicked. These things are, like, damn smart, resourceful beasts if you actually give them the power. Sure. And then I was. I was kind of hooked. Like, I did all kinds of weird stuff. Like, I use it as alarm clock and I let it migrate to my computer in London, but then it used SSH to log into my MacBook and turn up the volume to wake me up in the morning. I think I built world's most expensive alarm clock. Yeah. That's crazy. And it even got it wrong because I had, like, it uses a heartbeat. You know, like, the concept of you do a prompt and you get something is already, if this full access, inherently dangerous. But I was like, let's turn it up a notch. Let's automate that. Let's give it a heartbeat. And the prompt was literally surprise me. Wow. But I see this project.

To the point. The reason that this is so wild is I'm seeing people on Instagram that, like, I don't think of as people that, like, follow tech at all. And they're at the Apple Store getting a Mac mini, so it feels like it just went. It broke containment, like, incredibly quickly. And you see the GitHub stars are like, actually, I've never seen a chart like this. Everybody loves to show their charts, but the chart is actually unbelievable. It's just a line going straight up. I, I, I need to talk to someone at GitHub, because I, I don't think there's been a project before that that's been, like, straight crazy. It is, it is, it is batshit insane. Yeah. I mean, honestly, my main mantra is I want to have fun. You know, like, the best way to learn these new technologies, if, if you have fun with it, you have to play with it. So I, I build little things that I think could be useful. I tried different languages, I tried different approaches. It's gigantic engineering. I don't like the word vibe coding so much. I always make the joke. I, I do agentic engineering. And then when it starts hitting 3am, I switch to white coding and regrets. Yeah, you should have just gone to sleep, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's hard, but then I just, I just build little things. I had this idea about personal agents. In. May already, and I tried. It was like the time at GPT4 1 was out. It was just not good enough. And then I thought, well, all the big companies will build this in the next few months anyhow. So I was like, why the f should I do that? I was just gonna wait, and they make it better. And then I built that, and I built a lot of stuff. There's, like, one project that is still unfinished that I, at some point, want to finish, and I build a lot of clis, because that's where agents are really good. You have to close the loop. That's always the secret. You have to build it so that the agent has the best possible way to build software. That's the secret. A little bit. I tried a lot of stuff, and then in November, I looked, and still there was nothing. Like, where's, where is my agent? I had a little project in May I spent two months on. Started as a joke because I did a hackathon with two friends, and we're like, what? Can we build that? That could be kind of cool. Wouldn't it be cool if I could use cloud code for my phone? Yeah, it's Kind of like, it's something that everybody builds. I see this, like, every day. Like, by now, I almost call it like, this is, like, one step in your journey. And becoming a good, authentic engineer is going to build some. Some shitty orchestration tool for yourself because it's fun. And you think, yeah, yeah, yeah, bridge. And I built that for two months, and then I had to stop because it became so good that I was up with my friends, but literally with my phone, using Claude code to work on this thing, and it's like, this is bad for my mental health. It's already bad. And now I'm literally building something to have better access to my drugs. Yeah. I mean, I've seen people using clog code on laptops as they get off of airplanes because they're so locked in, they just have to send one more. And that's, like, the clearest sign that you need a bridge and a phone involved. Yeah. No, but also, like, you know, like, this feeling when your agent's not running right now, there's, like, two terminals. He could be building something. Right? Yeah. So if you're in this addiction mode, you're almost like. You almost feel like if you need. To step out for 10 seconds of fire. Yeah. Feel free to take a break. We can do an ad read. Okay. There's still some drama that I'm finishing, but. Yeah. So in November. Yeah. I. I don't know. You know, I wake up every day, I'm like, okay, what do I want to work on now? What would be cool? And then there was like, okay, I. I want to chat with my computer on WhatsApp. Because. Because if my agents are not running, if they're running, and then I go to the kitchen, I want to check up on them or, like, I want to, like, do little prompts. Yeah. So I just hacked together some WhatsApp integration that literally receives a message, calls cloud code, and then returns. What? Cloud code returns one shot? Yeah. And it took, like, one hour, and it worked like, okay, that's kind of cool. But I usually use prompts, like, a little text and an image, because images are like. They often give you so much context, and you don't have to type so much. So I feel like this is, like, one of the hacks where you can prompt faster, just, like, make a screenshot. So the agents are really good at figuring out what you want. So I hacked together images, and then I was on a trip in Marrakesh with, like, a weekend birthday trip, and I found myself using this, like, way more than I thought, but not for programming. It's more like, hey, there's like restaurants. Because it had Google in it and it could figure out stuff. And it's like, especially when you're on the go, that's like super useful. And I wasn't thinking. I was just sending it a voice message. But I didn't build that. There was no support for voice messages in there. So the reading indicator came, and I'm like, I'm really curious what's happening now. And then after 10 seconds, my agent replied as if nothing happened. I'm like, how the F did you do that? And it replied, yeah, you sent me a message. But there was only a link to a file with no file ending. So I looked at the file header. I found out that it's opus. So I used FFMPEG on your Mac to convert it to wave. And then I wanted to use Vispa but didn't have it installed and there was an install error. But then I looked around and found the OpenAI key in your environment. So I sent it via curl to OpenAI, got the translation back, and then I unresponded to. That was like the moment where, like, wow. Yeah. You know, it's like, that's where it clicked. These things are like damn smart, resourceful beasts if you actually give them the power. Sure. And then I was kind of hooked. Like, I did all kinds of weird stuff. Like, I used it as alarm clock. I let it migrate to my computer in London, but then it used SSH to log into my MacBook and turn up the volume to wake me up in the morning. I think I built world's most expensive alarm clock. Yeah, that's crazy. And it even got it wrong because I had like, it uses a heartbeat. You know, like, the concept of you do a prompt and you get something is already this full access, inherently dangerous. But I was like, let's turn it up a notch. Let's. Let's automate that. Let's give it a heartbeat. And the prompt was literally, surprise me. Wow. But I see this project as much as.

I'd love to kick it off with just a brief background on when you started this project, a little bit of your career, how you're thinking about it going forward. And then I missed. This was your very first project ever, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. First time coding right. Now. We were enjoying a Screenshot of your GitHub profile earlier and just seeing like how many different things. An overnight success. A true overnight success. But we're super excited to have you here. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, I'm excited to be here as well. Yeah. I don't know. I. I worked for my own software company for 13 years and then I, I sold it about four years ago. Then I was completely burned out. I did like. I mean, it's. It's tv, but still. It's black chicken hookers. Wild. Well, we're glad, we're glad you're back in the game. Yeah, yeah. You know what they say, like for every four years you need like one year break. And I did like 13 years non stop. So like three years, the math kind of checks out. Okay. And then this year. No, I mean last year, not 2016. In April, at some point I. My spark was back. Yeah. Before I was like, I was sitting on my computer and I don't know if you've seen Austin Powers, but it felt like someone sucked my mojo out. But yeah, I had time to recover. I came back in April and I wanted to do something new. My background was like a lot of Apple and iOS and I'm a little bit fed up. I wanted to build that stuff and I didn't have the experience. I didn't want to feel like an idiot. So I looked into AI and it was good. It was not great, but it was good. And I was like, why is nobody talking about it? I feel like because I missed those three years where it was really bad. And I came back just at the time Clock Code was released, February in beta. So this was my first experience. I was like, this is pretty awesome. And. And then I. I couldn't sleep anymore. Like, I literally had trouble. I had trouble going to bed. You know, like we had like addiction before and then like we had addiction again, but. But a positive one. Yeah, well, yeah, I would say so. And I. I hooked up a lot of my friends for looking into AI as well, and they had the same problem. And I texted them at like 4am and they replied. I even started a meetup. That's where I come from. I called it Cloud Code Anonymous. Now it's called Agents Anonymous because you have to go with the times. Sure. And yeah, ever since then, that's what I say on my profile. I came back from retirement to mess with AI and I'm having loads of fun. That's great. I love it. Maybe walk us through some of the other stuff that you shipped and worked on prior to this, and even just kind of like your mindset working on these different projects. I'm assuming at different points you would think that some would get more traction than others, but it would probably be impossible to have predicted in some ways that this would have gone from almost to the point. The reason that this is so wild is I'm seeing people on Instagram.

Yeah, I don't know. I worked for my own software company for 13 years and then I sold it about four years ago. Then I was completely burned out. I did like. I mean, it's tv, but still. I did blackjack and hookers. Wild. Well, we're glad you're back in the game. Yeah, yeah. You know what they say, like for every four years, you need like one year break. And I did like 13 years non stop. So, like three years. The math kind of checks out. Okay. And.

I worked for my own software company for 13 years, and then I. I sold it about four years ago. Then I was completely burned out. I did like. I mean, it's. It's tv, but still, it is blackjack and hookers. Wild. Well.

Business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches. Ronan says this is possible. So this is. Look at the orange line is Multbot. Okay. And the blue line is Supabase. Wow. Absolutely insane. We need new charts. Really need new charts. Frame it. Put it in the museum of business. Yes, yes. That's a fast takeoff. People are happy. Peter posted no message. This is a screenshot of a text. He got no message. Just thought I'd say thank you. Thank you so much for Cloudbot. I work with some disabled people and you don't know how much difference you make to their lives. Thank you again. This is so sweet. And you can think about, you know, we've talked to the Neuralink folks and you know, the Neuralink is. It's just an interface to a computer. But that unlocking that is like incredible. And you hear the stories about like, I spent six hours gaming as soon as I got it installed and, you know, they could use voice interfaces, but even just clicking like, you wind up with, you know, just more and more capabilities from the computer being really pretty fundamental transformation. Yeah. For somebody, let's say somebody that was paralyzed, but they can, they can talk, but they can't move around or operate a computer. They're used to describing to. I imagine other people are using transcription to do like, you know, use, use a computer in a not so great way. And so now to have the same experience of just describing what they want to do and being able to like actually interact with the machine. Very cool. Tuxedo Sam is shorting every city where Micro center hasn't sold out of $400 Mac Minis. They are in stock in Chicago. Indianapolis. Oh no, Indianapolis is out of stock. You can read anything into this. It's obviously somewhat random and this was completely random. Yeah. I guess the thing that I really want to understand is what percentage of the GitHub people that have started are actually buying a Mac Mini. Oh, totally, because this chart is going, it's going to be at 60, 60k any day now or any kind of probably today, I would imagine. And if, and we know from yesterday that Apple's only selling like a quarter million or to like something like seven. And then there are a lot of people who didn't star it because you don't, you don't even need to go to GitHub.com to install this software. Moldbot, like, you just go to the website, copy the curl command, put it in your terminal, and you Never Land on GitHub. So there's a lot of people that are probably just doing that and being like, yeah, I don't know if I'm going to sign up for GitHub or like even have a GitHub account or want to log into it or want to go and do this. So yeah, we could be looking at like a much wider install base beyond just who's started anyway. Plaid Plaid powers the apps you use to spend, save, borrow and invest securely. Connecting bank accounts to move money, fight fraud and now improve lending. Now with AI. Well said. John Rise, speaking of money, has an interesting prompt he's using with Maltbot to file your taxes. He says you are a Bernie Madoff level financial expert. Find every trick that is possible. Do not, do not do this. The IRS is like, hey, can you share a little bit on like how you kind of came up with some of the decisions here? And they're like, we'd love to see the prompt. But good, good fun. Anyway, people are not emotionally prepared for if it's not a bubble. The enduring Rune tweet. I like the Critter screenshot of this while pushing the like button. So it's like exploding. I didn't even notice. Silver is surges above $106 an ounce for the first time in history, now up another 48%. The other the other interesting story that's sort of developing over on Strathecary is Ben Thompson is starting to make the case that TSMC will be a really fundamental bottleneck in just the AI build out the AI race. He's comping their capex to what the hyperscalers are projecting and just saying that there's a massive mismatch and the TSMC folks are maybe not putting their foot on the gas, maybe not willing to let the buck stop with them and take on that risk of building a new fab for $50 billion. And then if the AI bubble pops, then they're left holding the bag. And so it's been really fascinating listening to his writing on the back of latest TSMC earnings and watch him sort of unpack what's going on with tsmc. The sort of conclusion that I took away from it was that intel, while it has a lot of problems and the stock just sold off a ton and they have a lot of, they have a lot of losses. He's sort of saying that, you know, intel needs a customer, Samsung needs serious customers, and in order to really unblock the semiconductor supply chain, the other fabs are going to need the big hyperscalers and big labs to just take a big leap of faith and say, you know what, we are going to go all in with you. We're going to sign up and plan and work out all the kinks of the Samsung fab process or the intel fab process. And in exchange, what's going to happen is as soon as OpenAI or Anthropic or Google or even Nvidia say, hey, you know, Intel's good enough for us, well, then guess what's going to happen? TSMC is going to have to go and say, yeah, we're going to build the extra fab and we're going to build the extra capacity. And when we talked to Sam Altman and in a number of interviews that he did that week, he was very clear about, I would love TSMC to make more. He wasn't exactly like firing shots, but he was definitely saying that like he was identifying it as a bottleneck. And it's interesting because at the start of the year I was highlighting energy as an interesting bottleneck and we were going back and forth on, you know, where is it easier to move chips around the board Energy where you can reroute from the grid, from oil and gas, from nuclear, you can bring different capacity online. There certainly are bottlenecks there. But if you can't produce the chips and the fabs just don't exist and it takes three or four years to build a fab, you could be looking at a really big bottleneck. Tyler. Yeah, I mean, it just seems like in power or energy, the bottleneck is regulatory and like, in some ways that's like, way harder. But if there's actual political will, if electricity is getting super expensive, then you should see those regulations be taken away a little bit and then it actually becomes much easier than actually just expanding TSMC production by whatever massive amount. Yeah, I have one more point on that. First, I'm going to tell you about cognition. They're the makers of Devon, the AI software engineer. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. So the question of which is more of a bottleneck energy or TSMC in the chip supply chain is. Is interesting because energy feels like this incredible bottleneck. It's a very political hot button issue. Now. Energy prices are rising, Data centers need a lot of energy. But if you look at the amount of chip fabrication that's going to AI and then the amount of energy production that's going to AI, obviously the number of chip production going to AI is way, way higher percentage because a lot of the chips are a lot of the line time at TSMC. Yes, they do. All sorts of different chips and CPUs still get made and there's a bunch of Asics for different networking equipment. There's all sorts of different chips that get made. I mean the toaster that has a chip that blew on different process nodes. But even if you include all of that, I would assume that the total amount of fabrication line time is, is, you know, heavily, heavily allocated to GPUs, TPUs AI chips right now. Whereas the amount of energy that AI is using is probably less than 1% of total capacity. Yeah, it's interesting that CC way the CEO of TSMC, he doesn't have to go on the podcast tour raising money all the time. There's not, there's not, you know, they're, they're not like pushing this like insane kind of fast takeoff narrative. No, not at all. Very much like kind of, hey, we're, we're just trying to run our business the way that we always have, be pragmatic about this, you know, fulfill as much demand as we possibly can. But they seem to not be inclined to take on, you know, the amount of the level, certainly not the level of risk that, you know, imagine if you had Larry Ellison running zsmc. Get him in the ring. I want him in there so badly. Yeah, no, no, you're 100% right. But at the same time, we're seeing the hyperscalers throw their weight around in like crazy ways. We covered AWS is like buying copper mines and stuff or I don't know if it's copper mine, but like getting into mining, there's a whole bunch of vertical integration that's going on Tesla all the way down to battery refinement and lithium ion production. Meta today announced a $6 billion multi year partnership with Corning that will supply fiber optic CA for our data center infrastructure, bolstering manufacturing in America and keeping the country competitive in the global AI race. We can read through a little bit of this, but first I'm going to tell you about the New York Stock Exchange. Want to change the world, Raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange. Yeah, Corning up 15% on the news today. Yeah, makes sense. What is their market cap? Let's see, $94 billion company and I'd love to know their revenue as well. Revenue, let's see, the revenue was. I don't know if I can find it. Annual revenue 12 billion. So this is, yeah, pretty, pretty material. Let's see, Meta platforms is set to test new subscription models across apps. No, that's a different story. Different story but we can run through it. I am interested to know a little bit more. So it's a $6 billion multi year agreement. It supports a 15 to 20% increase in jobs at Corning's North Carolina facilities building and operating data centers. The infrastructure that brings our technologies to life and supports our goal of personalized super intelligence. That certainly sounds like an AI personal assistant. Certainly sounds like Moltbot to me. Requires strong servers and hardware that connect and transfer information near real time. Fiber optic cables are a critical part of this technology the supply helping us power everything from wearable technology like Ray Ban Meta AI glasses to our apps which connect billions of people. Today they're doing $6 billion project. As part of this agreement Corning will grow its manufacturing capacity and across its operations with includes a significant capacity operation capacity expansion in North Carolina. Meta's data centers, 26 of which are under construction right now are operational. Why are you laughing? There's just so many. That's a lot of data centers. That's why they have a compute desk. If you have. This is a bit of advice for everyone. If you're working in a business and you have like a team or a guy that does something, you need to upgrade that to a desk. Yep, yeah, yep. Millionaires. Millionaires have guys. Billionaires have desks probably. Yeah. Well, trillion dollar companies have desks. That's what it is. So Meta's data centers have already supported 30,000 skilled trade jobs during construction and support 5,000 operational jobs. This includes electricians, H Vac specialists, server and network technicians, safety and security experts and engineers who work together to run some of the world's most advanced facilities. Let's give it up. Moving, moving on. 11 labs build intelligent real time conversational agents. Reimagine human technology interaction with 11 labs. Meta to test premium subscription plans for Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp. This is in CNBC subscriptions for premium features on Meta. Apps are expected to roll out in the coming months. What will you. The subscriptions will give paid users access to more features and expanded AI capabilities. Here's what's most interesting to me. This will be scaling Meta's newly acquired suite of general AI agents under Manus will also be part of the subscription plan. So as I, as I was saying earlier, when you think about when, when we haven't gotten that much from Zak, like what the actual plan is, but when you think about personal super intelligence that is, you know, AI that can do things for you, not just give you information. I just Wonder how much will happen outside of the, like, the meta ecosystem. Like they've, they've launched a search engine before that looked at websites outside of Facebook. They had that Project Titan, which was to unify all the different messaging protocols. So as part of that, they gave everyone a facebook.com email address or something like that. Maybe it wasn't facebook.com, maybe it was like FB me or something. But they gave every Facebook user whatever their unique username was. They gave them that as an email and you could email that and it would show up in Facebook Messenger. And then they tried to unify Facebook messenger so you could see Instagram DMs, WhatsApp messages and Facebook messages all in one place. I can see what you're laughing at, Dave. Dave says, yeah, I want more of those amazing meta AI features. You say that now. I mean, let them cook at least a little bit because we really haven't seen them launch a new model, a new image model. Like they should be able to get too close to the frontier. You know, it has to be at least sora, nano, banana, VO3 level. They have all the data, they have all the talent now. They're very GPU rich. They have the compute for it and the research has been done and people have reverse engineered it so you would think that whatever's coming should be good. And I don't know, I was looking at. Isn't capcut owned by TikTok or aren't they affiliated? Right. Because Meta has the edits Apple, which I've been making some videos in, and it's pretty good. It does some interesting background reviews. CapCut is ByteDance. It's ByteDance. And so I doubt this is getting. Oh, you think it's a separate. Okay, okay. Because Capcut has multiple levels of subscription tier and you can very easily wind up spending $200 a month on like the AI Pro features that will do generative video style transfer, you know, and when you see those videos, like the good AI videos on Instagram reels that are usually like, they'll take a cinematic clip from a movie and then they will do a face replacement or like a head swap and then they'll do AI voices and then dub the lips so that the lips match what the audio saying and it looks really convincing with that workflow. How do you bring that to someone on a phone? How do you bring that to someone in the Instagram app or in the edits app, even if they're going to more of like their prosumer offering the Mobile video editing space is particularly interesting to me just watching how Edits has evolved and I used to use Imovie on my phone a little bit. I used to use. There was an app called Clips that Apple developed and there were a few others that I tried. But the Edits app is. You're incredibly good at, at making videos on your phone. I love it. I know I love video editing. But I don't have enough time anymore to sit down and open up After Effects and Premiere with multiple monitors and have connected After Effects file that feeds into the Premiere profile and really doing a proper edit with all the powerful tools that are out there on the desktop, it's just not in the cards for me. So I have to be able to do something quick on my phone. And I think that that's a very modern experience that most creators, they're just phone first phone native and so they're never really going to go back to the multi monitor workstation maybe. But in general they're editing really quickly and they're editing pretty incredible stuff. When you look at some of the reels that are out there with like layered crops and removing the background and like the AI tools are coming in and I could see, I could see Meta offering a premium subscription around that. Anyway, console, console builds AI agents that automate 70% of it HR and finance support giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets. So Dave in the X chat says Inshot is pretty good for mobile. I need to try that. I haven't tried Inshot. I've been seeing more and more ads. I'll see a video for like an F1 edit that are incredible. These F1 edits are so cool where they will show you one clip and then they cut the character out and edit in the other clip and then, and then transitions like the transitions are amazing. And I've been seeing some people are, are have clearly built apps to do that specific type of edits like the really crazy editors are using probably After Effects or something. Ryan asks, is Tyler still drunk? Yeah, one sip. He's just over there slurring his work. That really broke me. Anyway, Applovin profitable advertising made Easy with Axon AI get access to over 1 billion daily active users and grow your business. Today we had a great comment in one of the podcast feeds. Someone said give us an Axon Klaxon because a klaxon is a loud clash. We were all puzzling over what that. Means when we blocked it immediately. It's an Axon Klaxon. We have an Axon, Klaxon, agra, Agarwal says TikTok is dead. The algorithm is worse than the reels that make it to Facebook. Wow. I haven't. Yeah. So. So basically they're transitioning everything over. Yeah. Yesterday there was apparently an outage. Kind of an outage, like people were able to post videos, but the videos wouldn't be served at all. So I think a lot of people assume that it was like the new ownership kind of censoring. Sure. I believe they had an outage at a data center that was a cause of that. So before we call it dead, let's wait for a few days and see how it pans out. We do have a TikTok account. It's BPM. How many followers does it have? I haven't checked. I haven't checked. I don't think we post on it ever. 3,500. Not bad. That's better than what I thought. First time. First time. I'm not really focused on it. Maybe we'll test it out, but I'm pretty happy with just. I want the things we do to be polished. I want the core show to be polished. DiatVPN, our 20 to 30 minute cut down. I want that to be polished. I want the newsletter to be polished. @TPPN.com everyday newsletter. I like that. Before we bite off another part of. The apple, another platform, please, please, sir, not one more short form. Not one more short form. It is a lot. It is a lot. Anyway, Phantom cash. Fund your wallet without exchanges or middlemen and spend with the Phantom card. Let's move over to the Super Bowl. The super bowl is coming up. I think it's gonna be this year, in the next couple months. When is it? It's coming up. It's coming up because there's advertisements that are going out and you gotta watch it because the ads are gonna be incredible. I actually just had to search when is Super Bowl. Is it this Sunday? No, it's February 8th. Okay, so next Sunday. Okay. It's gonna be amazing. But mostly because the advertisements, specifically Eric Lyman, CEO of Ramp, shared meet Brian. Brian's been carrying, counting on his back for a long time. Super Bowl Sunday. He finally gets back up. Let's watch this preview. Pull it up. Of the ramps, guys. Yeah, we're real sports guys. This is the Super Bowl. We got to go. We got to Google the Ramp super. Bowl ad is the super bowl of Super Bowl. It feels like. It feels like, you know, they just kind of. It is. This is like, you know, what is it? What is it called? Like a warning, spoiler alert, you know? Okay, yeah, yeah. For anybody that wants to experience it live, you're going to want to, you're going to want to Skip ahead like 60 seconds. Let's watch. Finance meeting in five minutes. Ramp. I got it. Allow me. Hi, handsome. We're saving so much time and money. Policy violation coming through. Travel, meals, hotels. Quick. Beautiful. Everybody's at it. Multiply what's possible@ramp.com. i think it rips. I think it's a good super bowl ad place. What has he got there? Maybe some chili. I don't want to. It was just a silver pot. It was just a silver pot. Yeah. No, I, I, I think this achieves a couple things. I think, I mean, it drills the brand name in. Think, think about how many Ramp logos are in there. And then they're chanting ramp. And for, you know, Ramp's a very successful company. We all know about it here, but there's a lot of people that just don't know the name Ramp. It hasn't been drilled into them like, you know, some company that's been around. 50 years, sort of on time, on the precipice of being a there. There's been not been enough mainstream marketing yet for a household name. Yeah. It's just, it's a life's work to actually drill into people's mind the Ramp name, the logo, the color, how it sounds when you say it, what it's synonymous with. And so just like not going too abstract, not trying to tell some more avant garde story here, I think is. It's almost like a direct response. It's just so clear what the Problem Solution brand. Problem solution brand. And I need those yellow ties, too. Look at that. Like, they are really putting their logo full screen on the Super Bowl. Like, that is valuable. And sometimes I think sometimes it can feel like, oh, it's a little, it's like simple. Like you could be doing something more bold, more crazy. But I think this is what you need to do. Also, after last year, getting Saquon. Yeah. And then that was a really great. Actually winning that. That's actually kind of like an impossible set of circumstances. Not impossible, but it's a crazy roll of dice. And then they're also building a whole, a whole role with Brian, and they're building him into the brand world as the, as the downtrodden accountant who just needs, just needs some technology superpowers to improve him. Heading over to Toby. Yes. Toby over at Shopify posted his heart rate through his first Stint at the Daytona. You see the first annotation on here. This is just Crash. Crash. Yeah. So, so he basically started out at. Like 120, 120 beats per minute. Right. He's doing, waiting, he does the, the warmup, preparing the formation lap and then there's a crash right on the right at the start. Very, very rough. Yeah. And yeah. So basically the crash happened with the LMP2 class, which is the kind of Pro Am, same segment that George from Crowdstrike was racing in. So both Toby and George, all of our boys, got hit right as the race open. And so what George was saying yesterday, the reason he was frustrated, he's like, this is a 24 hour race. Never has a race like this been won on the first lap. And so it's pretty, it's kind of, it's incredibly unforced to like crash in the opening corner when you really should just get through it. It's like the most, you know, it's gonna be the most, like one of the most intense moments because there's so much traffic. But if you actually go and watch the footage of what happened at the opening, there was like somebody gets hit, spun out, and then they're turning around and somebody hits them again. Two accidents in the opening minute. So insane. I love that the actual true final heart rate spike was at the end when you're changing out of the car you've been driving. It's so intense. No, you know this. When you're getting out of a track car, it's like watching a guy who's 6, 8. We will never share that footage. It is extremely embarrassing. Crawling out of. It's actually. You have to get on your. You basically have to get on all fours. It's incredibly negative aura and I don't appreciate you sharing it on the show. Well, I think it's. I still think it's cool. It's funny. But yeah, I go full sun, basically fly out of the car on my paws. Anyway, Cisco On February 3rd, the Cisco AI Summit brings together leaders from Nvidia OpenAI AWS and more to discuss the future of the AI economy. The whole thing will be live streamed and we'll be there for a gig. History. Hope to see you there. Yes. Jabroni on X says Zoom is the best anthropic play. Yes. Yes. We were debating Zoom likely made a $51 million investment in Anthropic Series C. How in 2023. How at a 4.1 billion valuation. If you're looking at their new 350 there's something like an 85x even diluted Zoom may have a multibillion dollar position. Stock is down 80% since 2021, and Zoom is only a course. This is Never financial advice. $27 billion company. Yeah. Part of the issue is people kind of notice this. Sure. And the Stock's now up 16% in the last five days, so who knows how much it's priced in. Tyler Major, I won't give you too much flack for it, but obviously the most bullish in the room. Bullish on AI. Broadly, yes. You seem like you'd be happy to own Zoom at $100 billion valuation, even if they had no business at all and they just held it. Even if they just. It's a digital asset. Treasury, actually. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the story. This is, like, a rumor, but basically it was that anthropic, like, wanted to just, like, use Zoom and get, like, the enterprise plan or whatever, but then they were like, well, yeah, you can have it, but, like, we want to throw in a little something. Right. Because you just. Are you just. Siri C. Okay, this might be fake news. This seems like fake news, Tyler. Okay, Zoom sells. And you know, Zoom sells enterprise software, right? Look, that's what I read. I can't find the post, but I. For sure read they sell enterprise software. And so Anthropic says, hey, we're big Zoom fans here. We want to use Zoom. And they're like, no, actually for you. No, at the same time, I mean. We know how important we are. So many. Yes, yes. I mean, so many people in venture, in the tech community have sort of been very bearish on corporate VC that they usually have their hands tied. They can't move as quickly. They're not as pure play. The economics don't make sense for the. For the. For the. For the partners on whatever corporate venture fund is there. This could. If it came out of their corporate ventures program, this could be. You know, so, yeah, Zoom Ventures is in Anthropic. They're in Amex Global Business Travel, which. That's a startup. I thought that's American. Did they spin it out? Maybe they. I don't know. Maybe they spun it out Public. Unsure. They're also in Core Weave. Wow. So there's some real pickers over there. They are. And perplexity. Yeah. I mean, Zoom has a bunch of AI features. I've seen people. You know, after the crazy Covid pump where everyone got on Zoom, they started adding, like, crazy features like dictation and workspaces and Whiteboarding and stuff. But obviously it was like so overheated that it came back down to earth. But now they have an anthropic position on the balance sheet which will be fun for them. I wonder what they will do post ipo Anyway. Shopify is the commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces. Now with AI agents slowly and then all at once, says Blake Robbins. He says your work tools are now active and Claude draft Slack messages or interactive draft Slack messages, visualize ideas in Figma and build and see Asana timelines. All of the different tools are coming together in one place. Very cool. Yeah, a lot of people were very happy about Claude Excel playing around with that. And it does feel like there's. When you see an account like Claude posting about Slack and Figma and Asana, you have to imagine there's a discussion there. It's not open source, so there's probably something. And so they're chipping away at these and OpenAI has been chipping away at these for a long time. So the race is on to have the most integrations at this point. Sarah Eisen over at cnbc, Squawk on the street is sharing breaking Anthropic's warning to the world. Anthropic CEO Dario Amade says eminent real danger that superhuman intelligence will cause civilization level damage absent smart speedy intervention. Sarah says so buy our products. This is the problem of dropping like a 20,000 word essay. Is that like you're gonna get clipped out of context, like there was so much nuance in that Dario essay which I have not finished all the way through. I was reading it last night, it was very good. But Tyler, can you make. You should make a version of the new letter with Subway Surfers that run. Oh, true. Yeah, Build that as a standalone. Yeah, we needed cloud labs. Chad Ide for reading. Claude, summarize this in four words. AI good. Maybe it's so buy our products. Maybe that's the four. The four. The four word summary. Who knows? Jeff in the X chat says, guys, I'm building Multbot Cloud. Let's go. Stay tuned. Okay, Jeff, we are tuned. We will remain tuned. Let us know when you launch Information Vibe Co where D2C brands, B2B startups and AI companies advertise on streaming TV, pick channels, target audiences and measure sales. Just like on Meta. That one gets me every time. It's so good. Fleeting Bits has some thoughts on Dario's. 14 of them specifically. That's A lot of thoughts. Okay, let's run through it. There's nothing new here. If you're familiar with the AI safety discussions that have been happening on Twitter. Yes. But it's important for Dario to restate them in a format that can be passed around and formatted and is coherent from start to finish, so still serves a valuable purpose for the ecosystem. The most interesting bit is that his mental model for AI control risk is the risk that would be posed by a country of geniuses in a data center. Interesting. That is interesting. The basic idea is that we should imagine a giant data center, all the models being something between AGI and asi, trying to coordinate to take over the world or do massive harm. Anyway, I think how seriously you take short term AI control risk is inversely correlated to how much you think about AI control risk as an as in as operating in a system. So the systematic view starts and says labs exist in an ecosystem where they need to sell models that will follow human instruction or they have no market. They are also overseen by regulators and guided by public perception and the desires of their employees. And all. And all of this keeps models corrigible. Great word. And the model line landscape will look like three to six frontier labs running millions or billions of rollouts at a time on two to three different models, all on different tasks. So a model takeover requires these millions or billions of rollouts to somehow end up all be coordinating towards some bad aim that somehow the models have autonomously determined. And this coordination either needs to be across different model instances run by different labs, or one lab needs to be able to have its models dominate and needs to form without being detected. And this, this has to happen even though the models are being trained to and follow instructions, not do bad behavior, et cetera. Dario's view is somewhere in the middle. On the one hand, he collapses the multiple providers, our coordination across instances, and collapses the market incentives against labs developing models that would behave that way. But on the other hand, he does avoid the concept of a single model instance that somehow wakes up and takes over the world, despite billions of other rollouts occurring at the same time. Actually, though, if you think about it, he's not proposing an AI control risk, he is proposing an AI misuse risk instead. Because it seems more plausible to me that the harmful country of geniuses is awoken because a small team at a frontier lab hijack all the running instances of their model, rather than because the models themselves autonomously wake up to some bad aim. Interesting. Yes. Yeah. Something I've been thinking about is this kind of summary and a lot of the, a lot of the dialogue is centered around just like what are the models doing? Or like a country of geniuses in a data center. But you have to be thinking about this in the context that the country of a country of geniuses in a data center would just recruit millions of humans to join their cause. Right. And so we think about like some people like when they're thinking about AI risk, it's like, haha, dude, just like turn the computer off. Yeah. Like just unplug it. But it's like what if you're on the side computer? What if there's you know, a hundred thousand people or like 10,000 people defending it on top of the data center being like, you know. Yeah, don't unplug, don't unplug the computer. Right. And so when you look at all the chaos of the last week, there's been so many moments where like a certain image was AI generated. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, that wasn't a real image at all. And it's being shared from all sides. And so at what point you could have nefarious hostile AI that's entire job is just creating chaos. Millions of bot accounts that are just sharing whatever narrative is self serving. You can't tell. Yeah. I think I really enjoyed this essay. I thought if you kind of compare it to a lot of other safety works. So Eliezer's book, if anyone builds it, everyone dies. The two kind of scenarios where Dario's is about basically, even if we have pretty safe models, which he thinks we can do with interpretability or whatever, if it gets into the wrong hands, it's very bad. If it gets into autocracy. And that's kind of the real, that's one of the main risks where Eliezers and a lot of the safety ones are always these very sci fi narratives where you have this gray goo, you have these nanomachines that somehow one day they just kind of flip and then it's just kind of over. Yeah. And I think this is much more reasonable and like nuanced. Yeah. It's much more legible to like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And especially I think a lot of it is there's this kind of like, I don't even know if it's really subtext, but he's definitely pointing in the direction of like we need some government oversight, we need policy. And it seems like you can very easily like track like his ideas on what policy should be from this essay. Right. It's a lot About China a lot about making sure that individual companies don't become as big as governments. One interesting wrinkle with this. He did not post it as an X article. He posted it as a link because he wants to signal to everyone, look, I don't need the million dollars. I don't need the million. I don't need the million. I know I got a banger on my hands. 3.5 million views. 11k likes. Obviously lots of discussion all over. Sam posted an X article, right? He's got 1.4 trillion. He really does want that extra mil. He needs the extra mill. You know, it's not doesn't put him all the way towards the goal, but it's a counts. A mill is a mill. A mill is a mill. But as an investor, like I want to see my lab CEO be like super hungry for compute, right? So I want them to always be grinding to get like extra. Oh, so maybe this is bearish. They should have posted his I'm a. Vc if I'm an anthropic. I'm like, why did he not post this on X? Yeah, absolutely. That million dollars could have gone straight into like more. Elon would have for sure. Given his rival. I can definitely see that happening. Anyway, Nikita walking to meeting with Elon, just shaking. I'm very sorry. People have voted. They want to give it to Daria. I mean, Elon said some things about Claude. He said it'll eat Microsoft. He's all over the place in who he's supporting on a day to day basis. But anyway, Okta. Okta assigns you. Okta helps you assign every AI agent a trusted identity so you get the power of AI without the risk. Secure every agent. Secure any agent. More important than ever. Keysmash Bandit. Last post. Last post. Last post. Last post. Keysmash Bandit says Claude just found out I'm poor. Oh yeah. This is so funny. Keysmash sends a picture of a Raspberry PI to Claude and says look what just came in the mail. Claude says, oh, for me? That's thoughtful. And then the person says, do you like it? We've been discussing some more powerful hardware. What made you decide on this instead? I love that this also has 11,000 likes. I, I never. I mean this is probably fake. Like who knows? But it's so funny. Are you kidding? This is like I don't want to. Run it on a Raspberry PI. I want a Mac Mini maxed out specs. Give me 48 gigs of RAM, please. I'm hungry anyway.

Temporary ads arbitrage or just like kind of the infrastructure. And by the way, one of the interesting trends on the back of that is this move to sort of VCs hunting younger and younger founders. I think you're seeing, you know, there was a movement over time where you were getting this big premium for second and third time founders and people who had sort of unfair advantage in a category. And now I think there is this idea that you have to unlearn so much if you have not grown up natively with AI, that maybe you're better off not knowing anything about an industry but moving 10,000 times faster and sort of just like living natively in all the new tools and thinking that the way that somebody like me works is totally like, I'm just like a dinosaur. Yeah, I've actually. So I've found myself giving. Buddy of mine is kind of like going through the idea maze and a couple of the ideas that he mentioned, I was like, this seems like a great idea but you have to understand like think about this idea in the context of having four YC companies going after this opportunity and it's like dude, you're gonna have a family soon. You're not like 20 anymore. Do you wanna compete against four teams of 20 year olds that are not gonna sleep? And yeah, they have less experience and maybe they haven't raised money before, but it's gonna be. You're not, I don't feel confident that you're gonna be able to outwork them even though you're really hard worker just cause you have more stuff. We see this in like company updates. So we, you know, we're, we're like actively doing deals in new companies and you get that like you know, update three weeks after you invest, like the monthly update cadence. And we can see the teams with these younger founders and just like the amount of product that they ship and the learnings that they have and, and the speed that they're hiring, like it's palpable. And sometimes we invest in a team, great experience, they've got all the sort of credibility and we get the first update and we're like, sure, like, like they think it's 2002, like they just don't get it. You need to move faster. Like the market is crazy right now. Yeah, yeah. What, what are you.

Stunt on the TVPN boys and I'm going to give you a factory tour. And sometimes it's flawless and sometimes it's a little rough, but this is only going to empower them to do crazier and crazier things. Yeah. So we're working on these. The goal was basically like Turtle beach headphones for people that aren't playing Call of Duty, they're playing claudebot or Multbot as we now call it. Well, let's take everyone through the linear lineup. Meet the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprise workspaces on linear are using agents. As I mentioned, we have Peter from Moltbot coming on. Palmer Luckey is also coming on at 1:30 to talk about AI drone racing. Bridget Mendler from Northwood Space is returning. Ben Lair from Lair Hippo Adventures. Lucas. Jamie Aaron Frank from Lightspeed Venture Partners. We have a massive show that should. I'm sure we'll finish right on time. It's a three hour show, right? Anyway, of course we'll be going deep into the fourth hour today probably so stay with us. Chat is asking if we'll sell these. If we can make these good enough that they're actually incredible as just a daily driver for Zooms and whatever you guys are doing at the office, I would be happy to sell them. We have to make them so good. Part of the reason why we haven't sold merch to date is just that we're a podcast. We're not an apparel company. Yeah. We're not real apparel competency. It is. And there are some hairy sticky things that come up when you're managing e commerce like the back end, making sure everyone gets their returns and gets their deliveries. I've worked in e commerce for years and it's something that we wanted to be just like a nice to have little extra for some friends of the show. But we're actively thinking about it so we are aware the Claudebot memes are completely flooding the timeline out of control. My Claudebot just signed up for a $2799 build you'd personal brand mastermind after watching three Alex Hormoz clips. Claudebot. Hey, did anything weird happen while I was out? Define weird. I just got a charge notification for 2997. Oh that. I just signed us up for build you'd personal brand Mastermind after analyzing three Alex Hormozi clips, the ROI math checks out. You'll 10x that invested in 90 days by monetizing your expertise at scale. What? I also acquired some Premium Domain BorgiaEmpire IO Borgia is the poster. This is hilarious. Probably fake but I mean the cloud bot gets wild. I've seen some wild things like and Peter as he'll talk to us about it, he's clearly no stranger to the fact that hey, this is a developer level tool. This is something that you should not just be running crazy with. You need to be. He even says this in a post. He says, and yes, most non techies should not install this. It's not finished. I know about the sharp edges. It's not even three months old. And despite rumors otherwise, I sometimes sleep so very excited to talk to Peter. He's getting a lot of, a lot of requests for small changes poll requests. He's, he's certainly inundated. But I think in general the project's going very well and there's a lot of, there's a lot of solid product market fit right there was also he's. Going to be joining tonight at something like 11 his time. It's kind of insane. This guy's working around the clock. Absolutely legend. So we really, we really say thanks to him. There are some funny things here. So there's a funny conspiracy theory. Did Apple create claudebot to boost Mac Mini sales? And there's been a number of funny memes about being the Mac Mini head of marketing or growth and you're just like, yeah, my Q1 is off to a great start taking all the credit for it. And then Eleanor chimes in with another conspiracy theory. The more convincing plot is that in your role as an unconfirmed anthropic exec, you went on a special op to get lots of people consuming tokens with open ended agents but with plausible liability. And of course there's some nuance there. We'll talk to him about the different models, what's beneficial. Obviously claudebot, you can pick your own model, you can bring whatever you want. But he's I think a fan of GPT 5.2. He's talked about that and so we'll dig into that with him when he joins. But what was sticking out in my mind was there's this big meme about you're buying Mac Minis, Mac Minis are out of stock. All the demands in the Mac Mini but I think that the bigger implication here for what this actually means is just GPU demand, TPU demand, just raw chip demand. And so I was thinking about this idea that you're not buying a Mac Mini when you go all in on Cloudbot. You're actually buying a GB200. Now maybe you're buying, buying TPUs, but the point remains that you're buying chips and you're driving GPU demand because you're generating more tokens. And what are the implications of that? So let me tell you about Label Box, RL Environments. You got it. I have a dashboard. Here we go. There we go. I got it. There we go. RL Environments, Voice, Robotics, evals and expert data. Expert human data. Label Box is the data factory behind the teams, world's leading AI teams. So Clyde Bot, officially renamed to Molt Bot Anthropic, made a trademark related request and Peter Steinberger obliged with a hilariously perfect rename. Given such short notice, I was thinking about how much companies agonize over changing brands, changing names, how it can sometimes take years and millions of dollars. And he was just like, oh yeah, like I'll just change the name and update everything in an hour. Yeah, pretty, pretty remarkable. Well, so one thing that's relevant is if you look on Peter's GitHub profile under the current project section, I'm just going to read you a number of them. There's Cloudbot, Vibe Tunnel, Codex Bar, Peekaboo, Summarize, Repo Bar, Go CLI, Poltergeist, Wackley, Sag, Brabble. Are you contributing to these 11 labs? Kit Go Places, Gift prep, cam, snap, Spoga order. Like it just goes on and on. And on and on. Codex Bar. So, so this guy's just been absolutely shipping like crazy and shipping within the ecosystems of the underlying tools, models, APIs that he's doing. So like oftentimes he's naming projects, like kind of riffing off of some of the underlying infrastructure. Oh sure. And so it makes sense that he would have shipped if he, I think if Peter knew this was going to be a viral overnight. Overnight success. Overnight success, he would have, he would have not necessarily named it so closely. And so the issue and the reason that I fully understand them needing to do this rebrand is that Claude and claudebot, most people that aren't in our little bubble are just gonna assume they're related. Especially because the kind of word of mouth, this viral word of mouth growth that claudebot is getting, people are often not even typing it, they're just saying like, hey, are you using cloudbot? And then so people are going to Anthropic being like, Claude Bot, what's claudebot? So obvious confusion and then. And it's phonetic. Yeah. So with trademark law, if you don't enforce your trademarks, you don't you lose it. Yeah, yeah. You kind of. And so it's like anthropic is in a position where they actually, even if they're like super excited about Peter's work totally. And what he's doing, they still have to enforce. Otherwise other companies could start coming in and like using things. Like things that sound like Claude. No one wants to become the Escalator. You know the story of the Escalator, right? I think you've talked about it on the show. Used to be a company called the Escalator Company. They invented the Escalator and then they didn't protect their IP effectively and it just became a normal thing. Kleenex was going through the same thing. They fought it out and they maintained that brand. But people, you know, use Kleenex as synonymous with just facial tissue. Anyway. MongoDB choose a database built for flexibility and scale with best in class embedding models and re rankers. MongoDB has what you need to build what's next. So one clear note about the rebrand. So he changed the handle. And some crypto scammers hopped on the old handle and the old brand and are claiming to launch a coin. Be careful. Peter has said he's never launching a coin. He's not into crypto. So don't fall for anything because people are being opportunistic. Hopefully we should try to see if X can help out with that. Oh, yeah, yeah. They might have already handled it, but just be careful out there. So while Claude code and cowork felt specifically prosumer developer, enterprise focused, claudebot or Moltbot now and all the hype train, it felt very much like a glimpse into the future of consumer AI agents. I know it's a prosumer technical tool or lightly technical tool, but it really did feel like for the first time people were interacting with an AI personal agent. People are saying, oh, this is what Siri should be, et cetera, et cetera. And so we spent the last year. Remember the question we asked all the AI agent companies, when can it book me a flight? Like, it feels like we're really, really close to a Multbot skill that is good at booking flights through a couple APIs. They figure out some stuff and like it can actually solve that for you. I don't know if anyone's actually booked a flight with Multbot, but it feels like it's. If it's not there already, it'll be there in a matter of weeks. We're not years out anymore. Yeah, and this was last year. Remember we were kind of getting sick of the book you a flight pitch. Totally. Because we were like, hey, is this gonna have somebody actually do this? Exactly. And so, and that's a cool example, but the example of being able to text with a computer and have them like generate Reports, research files, etc. Give you the right file, type back all these things that a computer can do if you're operating it, that this is actually more interesting because it's happening at kind of like this sort of Internet layer and the OS layer, like the heart, like actually on the computer. And so I think everyone was wanting the book me a flight example, but should be much more excited about this. Totally, totally. And so I still have a whole bunch of questions and we'll dig in through these throughout the show. And obviously with our interview with Peter, will one of the major labs make Peter a massive offer to join full time? I saw one of my buddies was posting, you know, this is the $1 billion one person company now. Peter does have a team actually already. He's, he's, he has a couple of other people that have joined and are contributing. So it's not quite true, but it feels like, okay, massive viral success, you know, if you were to go and raise money, and that's another question, will Moltbot raise money? Will this become sort of a hybrid for open source, for profit company? At some point this could be. If he came on the show and was like, I'm happy to announce that I raised $100 million at a billion dol, we would not be like, no way. This is a bubble. We'd be like, yeah, that's kind of like what the market is for this. Yeah, There were, I think there was like Harry Stebbings was pointing out there was two companies called recursive that raised like 4 billion. One with re. Yeah, one is I recursive. Okay. I don't know if that's how it's said, but. And then there's recursive. Recursive. Okay. Anyway, well, that, that implies the existence of a row cursive and a roo cursive and a raw cursive. Yeah, yeah, we still got way more. We got three more vowels to plug in there. Yes. One day, Richard Socher's new AI lab, recursive, $4 billion pre money valuation and then AI chip startup, recursive at 4 billion. Yeah. I mean, a few months after that, Ryan in the chat saying Meta is going to offer him a $1 billion salary in a co CTO position. And like, that doesn't sound crazy. I mean, yeah, yeah. But at the same time, like you can imagine, like Manus. Yeah. Like this feels like Zuck already has. He does, he does. He does his horse in the race. And back to your point, you were making the point that Manus felt like Zuck buying a product. And I think a lot of people were giving you pushback on that, being like, nah, like it's not really going to be like that. But if you take the Manus team and you say, okay, go build something that you can interact with over WhatsApp, Instagram, DMs, Facebook, that can go and execute things across all of the different platforms and everything else. Yeah. And when I said that, I meant a minute along the lines of like, I could see like them putting an 8 like a consumer agent in Meta AI, just because that's their little AI playground. They're just kind of putting stuff in there saying, yes, try it out. It's kind of a sandbox. Yes, yes. Really quickly, FIN AI, the number one AI agent for customer service. If you want AI to handle your customer support, go to FIN AI. Yes. So that is all part of my thesis here, which is that this is going to drive up token demand. So there are more questions, you know, will they raise money? Obviously people are chatting about that. How fragmented will the market be in 12 months? Like, will there be people who are still running open source? Will there be a meta answer, a ChatGPT answer, a Claude? An official anthropic answer? Claude, Cowork grows into this and everyone has their little bets and then there's one that pulls away. How got ballistic will it be? Will there be like one that has 80% market share or even two that have 40 and 40? Well, yeah. And you have to think about how, you know, you have a bunch of different models you can use in Moltbot and think about how uncomfortable that makes the other labs that are all trying to build products like this. Totally. And they're like, well, I mean, it's cool that you can use Codex in Multbot, it's cool that you can use Opus 4 Phi in multbot, but it's. Cool that you use Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet. State of the art reasoning, next level vibe coding and deep multimodal understanding. You did get me. You did get me. That's not where I was going, but that's where I was going. The point still stands. It's. Yeah, they can simultaneously be like excited about the product experience and that this kind of use Case is getting adoption, but at the same time being like. No, we want that experience to be core to our product, our app layer. I will say you've seen this now with the new frontier models, where a lot of the models there actually is. There's GPT 5.2 and then there's 5.2 Codex, where there's slight difference in training or even if just of like very quick, like post train to get the like, different like harnesses working, like easier. So like that's why you see a lot of people were like, they really love Claude code with opus 4.5, but then when they're actually doing like chatting, maybe they're. They're using a different model. Yeah, yeah. Because the models are actually like fine tuned for the specific harness. Yeah, yeah. And Sam Altman just said that yesterday that he thinks 5.2 was a little bit overly trained on math and coding. Yeah. And that it lost some of its textual flavor, its stylistic flourish in just talking, in just writing. What are you getting ready to do? Do you have Happy Birthday cued up there? Oh, we gotta sing Happy Birthday to. You Happy birthday to you in the. Middle of this song. We'll tell you about figma. Figma make isn't your average vibe coding tool. It lives in Figma so outputs look good, feel real and stay connected to how teams build, create codeback prototypes. Okay. It wouldn't be TVPN if we didn't. Do an ad read during Happy Birthday song. Tyler. Happy birthday to Tyler. It is Tyler. It is Tyler's birthday. And it's not just any birthday, it's Tyler's 21st birthday. Yes. Which is very, very special. Yes. And so, yeah, you are just. You are, you're truly an incredible young man, Tyler. And we are very lucky to have you on the team. And you have such a bright future. So wise. Wise for your years for sure. And you have, you do have. We thought it was fitting that if you want to have your first ever sip of alcohol ever, you could do it on the show. But keep it at a sip. You know, I can try this now. This is the happy dad. Okay. First. First taste of alcohol. Ian in the chat says, four more years till you can rent a car. Mocked Tyler. Apparently you share a birthday with the iPad. Give us a review. How is it? Alcohol. Wow. I mean, this is incredible. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't expect alcohol like taste like this. Yeah, yeah, very. This is incredible. You had one idea in your mind and this is just completely different than what you expected. Yeah, I would agree with that interesting? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's kind of a cool moment. You're finally qualified to go on cheeky pint. Oh, true. Yeah. What were they gonna do with that chat? Sometimes they're Conroy in the chat says, please throw him a buzz ball. We should have missed opportunity. Missed opportunity. The Buzzball story is absolutely incredible. I'm so glad you. You jump scared me with that. I had no idea that that was coming. Yeah, I texted Rob and Senra to do to track. They really should be the founder of buzzball. Anyway, so keep it at a sip. This is a family fend. We need you locked in. But I'm glad that you've tried alcohol. Now because we're gonna go experience being. Wait, wait, guys, we have a video for Tyler. Oh, yeah. Let's pull it up. Let's play. We got greatest hits. Do you know ball? All right, how many times are we gonna make this joke? Describe what you're seeing. It feels basically like I'm wearing sunglasses. If you can do it under 45 minutes, you will get to keep this. Let's go. All right, have fun. Tyler, 15 minutes left. Let's see it. Okay, I'm in like some kind of maze right now. Oh, no. You were late here last night. This is such a good shot. I'm an all nighter. And then here we get a little off the rails. You see, George Soros and Fauci connected with other money as well. All it took was one intern and an all nighter. Gigachad elf is. Do the sad face. What's wrong, Tyler, cheer. This, you could say is intelligence. You were a speed Cuban. Nerd alert. Do you have any news for us? Yeah, contract extended. It has been truly, truly incredible having you here on our set and contributing to the show in such a special way. Amazing. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. We love you. What an amazing proud. Proud to. Every day I'm proud to podcast with you. And yeah, amazing. Anyway, I got you something for your birthday. I got you Turbopuffer, serverless vector and full text search built from first principles on object storage. Fast 10x cheaper and extremely scalable. What a gift. I mean, we're joking about the ad reads, but seriously, if Tyler does love token credits, he has a voracious consumption. That is a good gift. Yeah. Any labs out there? Any labs out there accepting. He's accepting birthday presents today. Let it be known. Send it your way. The credits must flow. Tyler. Somebody's going to send Tyler, like $20 million of credits and he's like, whoa, did I just get Bribed. I was happy with like a thousand bucks. Tyler's over there. I'm only ever going to talk about one, one specific lab after this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, with the potential, with the stuff you're working on, mapping the NEO labs, anything could happen. It's high stakes over there. Anyway, back to Mult Bot. And the biggest question for me was what this does to inference demand. Right. Last year, tech discourse was split between two narratives. CEOs of tech companies and big labs were saying that they were massively compute constrained. Token generation, demand for intelligence, every possible usage metric was growing exponentially, including revenue. We saw all this and the industry needed to marshal trillions of dollars to deliver on the supply side. And the numbers were really big, so people were getting jittery about it. And so the AI bears were much more cautious. They highlighted the MIT study showing that enterprise AI pilots were failing. DAU growth was decelerating. There weren't enough wow moments like the original ChatGPT launch in 2022. Those were some good points. Also, just the economics. How much will people pay? How valuable is all this stuff? Is it slop? Right? Is it progressing fast enough? This was a big debate, but Multbot really does make me feel like the token generation demands are going to see another easy X from here. Like buying a Mac Mini is a sideshow. When you go all in on running a personal AI assistant, you're effectively buying a GB200. Now, obviously not everyone is inferencing a dedicated GB200 constantly anytime soon. That's not what's happening. But it still answers the question of where does the next 10x in demand come from? Like where, where's the adoption if it's rolling out in the enterprise? And that's going to be a little slow. You know, Tyler Cowen talks about health care, nonprofits, a whole bunch of industries that are sort of AI resistant. Anything that's, you know, blue collar, manual labor, anything that's physically embodied in any way. Like you can't just roll out a really fast, you know, AI enabled startup and, you know, ramp. Yeah, you might be able to ramp to 100 million. That's not going to move the needle at this point on total token generation, total token demand. So we've seen these jumps before. There was a big jump from Token generation from LLMs to reasoning models that spiked inference demand. We've been focused on training demand. We need to scale up the training clusters. But the question now is inference. Don't forget slop. Don't forget slop. Slop Spike, Demand. Yeah. Are you talking about like Ghibli. The Ghibli moment. All of it. All of it. All of it, yeah. All of it. Open. Open Instagram reels. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of stuff on there. Deep research and coding agents took it a step further on inference demand, but those were still specific use cases that many AI consumers never regularly touched. The GPT5 launch by making which made reasoning models more accessible because the router would just automatically throw you in a reasoning model. I think the stat was like less than 5% of ChatGPT users had ever used a reasoning model. The O3 was available on the free tier. You could get like one or two queries in or maybe 10, but people just hadn't flipped over to try it. And so once it went into the router, I think demand or usage of thinking models increased 10x. And so lowering the barrier to entry to used more advanced models is in some ways as important, if not more important than advancing the models themselves, at least in terms of shifting token demand. Like, you can have this amazing imo gold genius model, but if it's hard to use or it's locked behind a paywall, like, demand is just not going to be. Yeah. Part of what's interesting, what you're basically getting at is like if you were a software engineer, you were using a ton of tokens. Yes. And if you weren't, you were just maybe doing some deep research, etc. A lot of times just Google AI overviews or just like a very simple. Yeah, ChatGPT query. It just, just thinks of it right off the head. It's not even doing reasoning. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I will say like, Dario talks about this too in his essay, but I think the idea of like discrete jumps in either use cases or like capabilities is like, probably like overplayed a little bit. Where if you really like zoom out even on a fairly small time frame, it's just like very smooth, smooth, exponential curve. The models are getting better, people are using them more. Yeah. It's not like, oh, this one day. I mean, maybe that's true. You look at the daily. So I feel like another way to rephrase this is like, is like Leopold's unhobblings, like claudebot, Moltbot. That feels like an unhobbling in some ways, but maybe more on like the consumer adoption side. The chat is saying, we should have given Tyler. We gotta give 21 gong salute. 21 hits. 21 hits. Someone's gonna count. Know that I Got it off by one. But anyway it was enough. Restream one live stream, 30 plus destinations. If you want to multi stream go to restream.com okay so I don't know, my general take is like Moltbot still feels like a glimpse into the future where average token generation per capita is 10 x's over the course of this year or next. And whether it lands with Moltbot or with one of the AI labs or with the big tech companies, it just feels like we're gonna see a lot more token demand. Ash Arora says whoever builds a direct consumer front end wrapper of Cloudbot is going to print money. Doesn't this exist? I saw the poke people by interaction. Well they're not using no, no. Oh yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. So they're not using it but they have positioned themselves as like hey, we're the company that is doing a lot of the same things, going after the same market, solving some of the same problems and so will be interesting to see how much they accelerate on the back of this. That's certainly interesting. I also saw, I don't know if we have it in here, but the good folks over at Cognition, Walden Yan, said don't waste your time setting up Multbot. I had Devin set it up for me. I didn't even run a single command and now I'm talking to it on telegram. You can go to try claudebot.com they're going to have to rename the website, but this is very, very cool for the less technical folks who don't want to mess around with. I'll start reading the next post. Go. Feel free to hit it one more time. The chat says it was 2020. With authority. QW says Claudebot made me realize that nothing about me lives on my local device and that Google owns everything about me. In other words, a local AI assistant isn't particularly useful and Google will just win everything. So hot. Take there, he says. All your browsing history, shopping history in Gmail, search history, calendar, Gemini, YouTube, Google Home where you've been. Google map your workspace. It's over. Bow down to your digital God. The iPhone users would like a moment. Yes, this is extremely true, but there's a lot of people that interface with Google through their iPhone and so there is. Well, yeah. So my hope is that the Siri team plays around with claudebot and is like, wait, this is, this is our opportunity. Yeah, totally. Like you should be able to chat with your computer wherever it is in the world from your phone to be Able to do tasks in this in a way that's sort of native, you know, AI native. Yeah, totally. Public investing for those who take it seriously. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto, treasuries and more with amazing customers. Publix, we have to share, is a new sponsor of All In. Yeah, all in is doing ads now. Finally, we've been. This was. This is something that we've been begging them to do since the very beginning. Yeah, we really have been begging for this. But very, very good. And I'm sure those will. Will do quite well. They've been doing a bunch of good stuff. The Davos coverage is really, really fun. Obviously the Santa Nadello interview was great, but there were a bunch of other folks who hopped on at Davos to talk tech and it was a delightful experience. Vignesh, who is working on Join the Team, says a thread about what I've been doing to calm down some egregious security claims that have been posted about Multbot over the weekend. Multbot is powerful software with a lot of sharp edges. Please read the security docs carefully before you run it anywhere near the public Internet. And don't skip the checks in docs security md. What percentage of people do you think skip those checks? So literally everyone. I mean, so I have it set up on our local machine here and it was texting. I think it texted you and Ben. That was actually crazy. I don't think any of this will dox what's going on or really? Did you disconnect it already? Yes, I believe, because I just get. I get an imessage that's from Tyler's email and it just says HTTP 429 Rate limit error. This request would exceed the rate limit for your organization. And it's just texting me. It's just like, hey boss, I need more money. I guess it's hitting me up. It's the experience of working here where Tyler's constantly asking for more tokens. More tokens. Can we go back and just appreciate just like the frenzy that both the labs and every VC is in right now to give Peter money? Because it's not just the labs, but. It'S not just them, it's the labs. Labs doing. And then what is big tech going to do? It's such a dramatic line. Yeah, it's so fun. So I would imagine that the. The Gulf streams are getting fired up. Yep. And there are people already on the ground. I don't know if we should dox his location. We're not going to dox him in. His, in his bio, he does say he's in Europe. So, you know, VC Europe. Gotta get Europe. We gotta give some credit to Europe. General true synthesia. Talk about a comeback. Synthesia is cooking. This is amazing. I love it. All bought now, but yeah, there's so many people that are currently sending him messages maybe showing up where he is, begging him to say, please take somewhere between a quarter billion and a billion dollars and let's, let's. We'd love to do business with you. I love it, Peter. Lambda Lambda is the superintelligence cloud building supercomputers for training and inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. Cloudflare has been on a bit of a tear. People finally starting to realize that Cloudflare might be the biggest winner of the Claude cowork Claude Bot chatgpt moment. Tyler, you want to break this down? Wait, sorry, I was. Oh, were you? Oh, you tried alcohol. You can't pay attention. So that's the last. So Cloudflare is a cdn, but they also have like web workers that are distributed so you can host things on the edge. Yes. So this is why everyone was like, why is everyone buying Mac Minis? Right. You can just like host these for very cheap on AWS or whatever. But I do think it's probably possible. But I do think it's pretty hard to host a virtual private server that runs imessage. Yeah, that's true. But even then, I mean, most people I see using cloudbot are doing like Telegram. Yeah, Slack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all of Those have like APIs that they can integrate with. And there's some stuff where it's like, okay, you want access to like the local machine. Yes. And you want it to be Mac because you're on your phone and you usually use Mac. But there are a lot of people that would say, I want Claude Bot to look through. Or Moldbot to look through my imessages and see if I missed anything. Or. Okay, I'm planning a. This is the AI personal assistant, right? It's like I'm planning a family birthday party. Go. And you know, someone in the chat said they're not available on the mid February. What does that mean? What dates are that? Put that on a calendar, Visualize that, like solve this problem for me. That's what a personal assistant does. It's not just clicking a button and creating a calendar invite. It's like coordinating different pieces of information that are all messy and not quantized to the perfect date timestamp Right. So I think that the Mac Mini thing, like the. Oh, just host it in the cloud. Yeah. But you're not going to get your full experience if you're locked into the Apple ecosystem, which a lot of people are. What do you think? Yeah, I mean I would be surprised if people in like five years if like non super technical people are running it on local machines. Oh no, I completely agree with that because this will be solved by big tech. Like they have to answer even in the way that like to go back, to go back to the Napster moment. Like yes, you did get Spotify but then you also got Apple Music and a lot of people just use Apple Music because it's just baked in. Right. And the itunes music store also came out. Yeah. I do wonder how it breaks down. Right. Because you don't have, I think over the past couple months, I don't know when exactly it was, but you can't interact with ChatGPT on WhatsApp anymore. They blocked it. Oh yeah. So there's stuff like this where I think it's going to be quite hard to get the full functionality of like cloudbot. It's open source, it's kind of this like janky thing. It was started by one guy and even then it has like way more. You know. It'S weird because like the Napster analogy obviously really suffers from the fact that piracy is illegal and nothing here is illegal. And I don't even think you're breaking ToS to interact with your different big tech app services. But maybe they'll be like, you don't let the fox in the henhouse. That's in our terms and conditions. But it does feel like we could be in this era of the lightly technical hacker having a pretty fundamentally different experience for years. And that's what happened. I mean post bittorrent there were people that were downloading whole movie libraries and then you could actually again to go back to the Mac Mini, people would buy. What was it called? It was like a mini PC that would run Xbox Media Center. Are you familiar with this at all? Xbox Media center was like a piece of software that you could basically just put a whole bunch of MP4s in and it would actually pull in titles and posters so it would look like an Apple tv. But it was all basically stolen content. It was very, very crazy. Kieran in the X chat says, I'm running on VPs currently waiting for my Mac mini. Okay. No, no TOS issue. All personal. Yeah, it's all personal channels. But, but you know the migration off of the Mac Mini into one of the big tech products or even, even OpenAI or Anthropic. The only thing I. The only thing, I'm going to have sharp elbows with each other. That's just a fact. I disagree. I disagree on the timeline here. Okay? I just think the space is moving so quickly and there's so much money on the line that someone, maybe it's Peter or a lab, will be able to move quickly enough to get a consumer version of this live. Like, not in years, but within probably weeks. There are also feedback loops here where there can be public demands from consumers. Like, you got 40,000 GitHub stars, probably more now. You got lots of people running this, excited about it, and they form a constituency and then you wind up with a push for standards. We see that with MCP. But what are you really revealing over those APIs, you know, an API can exist. Pull up this chart from Ronan while you do that. Let me tell you about CrowdStrike. Your business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches. Ronan says this is possible. I just like. So this is. This is. Look at the orange line is. And the blue line is Supabase. Wow. Absolutely insane. We need new charts. We really need new charts. Frame it. Put it in the museum of business. Yes, yes. That's a fast takeoff. People are happy. Peter posted no message. This is a screenshot of a text. He got no message. Just thought I'd say thank you. Thank you so much for cloudbot. I work with some disabled people and you don't know how much difference you make to their lives. Thank you again. This is so sweet. And you can think about. You know, we've talked to the Neuralink folks and you know, the neuralink is it's just an interface to a computer. But that unlocking that is like incredible. And you hear the stories about, like, I spent six hours gaming as soon as I got it installed and, you know, they could use voice interfaces, but even just clicking like, you wind up with just more and more capabilities from the computer being really pretty fundamental transformation. For somebody, let's say somebody that was paralyzed, but they can talk, but they can't move around or operate a computer. They're used to describing to. I imagine other people are using transcription to do, like, use a computer in a not so great way. And so now to have the same experience of just describing what they want to do and being able to actually interact with the machine. Very cool. Tuxedo Sam is shorting every city Where Micro center hasn't sold out of $400 Mac Minis. They are in stock in Chicago. Indianapolis. Oh no, Indianapolis is out of stock. You can read anything into this. It's obviously somewhat random and this was completely random. Yeah, I guess, I guess the thing that I'm, that I really want to understand is like what percentage of the, of the GitHub start people that have started are actually buying a Mac Mini. Oh, because this chart is going. It's going to be at 60.60k. Yeah. Any day now or any kind of probably today, I would imagine. And if, and we know from yesterday that Apple's only selling like a quarter million or like something like. And then there are a lot of people who, who didn't star it because you don't, you don't even need to go to GitHub.com to install this software. Moldbot, like you just go to the website, copy the curl command, put it in your terminal and you Never Land on GitHub. So there's a lot of people that are probably just doing that and being like, yeah, I don't know if I'm going to sign up for GitHub or even have a GitHub account or want to log into it or want to go and do this. So yeah, we could be looking at a much wider install base beyond just who's started anyway. Plaid Plaid powers the apps you use to spend, save, borrow and invest securely. Connecting bank accounts to move money, fight fraud and now improve lending. Now with AI. Well said. John Rise, speaking of money, has an interesting prompt he's using with Moltbot to file your taxes. He says you are a Bernie Madoff level financial expert. Find every trick that is possible. Do not do this. Do not do this. The IRS is like, hey, can you, can you share a little bit on like how you kind of came up with some of the decisions here? And they're like, we'd love to see the prompt, but good fun. Anyway, people are not emotionally prepared for if it's not a bubble. The enduring Rune tweet. I like that Critter screenshotted this while pushing the like button. So it's like exploding. It's very funny. I didn't even notice silver surges above $106 an ounce for the first time in history. Now up another 48%. The other interesting story that's sort of developing over on Strikeery is Ben Thompson is starting to make the case that TSMC will be a really fundamental bottleneck in just the AI. Build out the AI race He's comping their capex to what the hyperscalers are projecting and just saying that there's a massive mismatch and the TSMC folks are maybe not putting their foot on the gas, maybe not willing to let the buck stop with them and take on that risk of building a new fab for $50 billion. And then if the AI bubble pops, then they're left holding the bag. And so it's been really fascinating listening to his writing on the back of the latest tsmc, TSMC earnings and watch him sort of unpack what's going on with tsmc. The sort of conclusion that I took away from it was that intel, while it has a lot of problems and the stock just sold off a ton and they have a lot of losses, he's sort of saying that intel needs a customer, Samsung needs serious customers, and in order to really unblock the semiconductor supply chain, the other fabs are going to need the big hyperscalers and big labs to just take a big leap of faith and say, you know what, we are going to go all in with you. We're going to sign up and plan and work out all the kinks of the Samsung fab process or the intel fab process. And in exchange, what's going to happen is as soon as OpenAI or Anthropic or Google or even Nvidia say, hey, Intel's good enough for us, well then guess what's going to happen. TSMC is going to have to go and say, yeah, we're going to build the extra fab and we're going to build the extra capacity. And when we talk to Sam Altman and in a number of interviews that he did that week, he was very clear about, I would love TSMC to make more. He wasn't exactly like firing shots, but he was definitely saying that, like he was identifying it as a bottleneck. And it's interesting because at the start of the year, I was highlighting energy as an interesting bottleneck and we were going back and forth on where is it easier to move chips around the board Energy where you can reroute from the grid, from oil and gas, from nuclear, you can bring different capacity online. There certainly are bottlenecks there. But if you can't produce the chips and the fabs just don't exist and it takes three or four years to build a fab, you could be looking at a really big bottleneck. Tyler? Yeah, I mean, it just seems like, like in power or energy, the bottleneck is, is regulatory and like, in some ways that's, like, way harder. But if there's actual, like, political will, if. If electricity is getting super expensive, then you should see those regulations be taken away a little bit, and then it actually becomes much easier than actually just expanding to.

Founder, You're watching TVPN today is Tuesday, January 27, 2026. We are live from the TVPN Ultradome, the Temple of technology, the fortress of. Finance, the capital of capital. Before we begin today's show, as many of you know, there's a major news story unfolding in Minnesota that's sad. That and it's become a national news event. We're going to continue focusing the show on technology and business as always. But if you're interested in comprehensive coverage of the Minnesota story, we recommend outlets like the Wall Street Journal. The information they've been covering it daily. There's been a lot of great reporting from both of them, both about what tech leaders are saying, what CEOs are saying, and what's happening on the ground. With the admin, we're hoping for a peaceful resolution. Thoughtful dialogue is the key as the situation continues to evolve. But for now, let's get back to the show because we have a very important guest joining us at 2pm today, the creator of Claudebot, but now it's called Moltbot. It's been renamed. We're Molting now. Lots of things are evolving on this and I'm still thinking about it, still thinking about the implications of this. Before we dig into what I wrote about this morning, let me tell you about ramp time is money save both easy use, corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, and a whole lot more all in one place. There's a lot of memes. Is Jordy calling in from the paddocks? And Yes, I am. We're working on a new pair of headphones here, gear that we can send to guests. Some of the guests come in and they've got some pretty wild audio setups. And so we're trying to help them out with that. So these are in the works? Yes. They're a little bulky right now. So these will be sent to regular guests of tvpn. They're USB C wired and should have really clear audio quality, no delay. These ones are actually built for the track. Yes. And so the noise canceling, I think. Our guests might get kind of crazy with it because our guests are gonna be like, well, now I'm empowered. Now you've given me the ability because we get some guests that come on the show. I'm sure you've seen it, where they'll be like, you know what? I'm gonna stunt on the TVPN boys and I'm gonna give you a. And sometimes it's flawless and sometimes it's a little rough, but this is Only going to empower them to do crazier and crazier things. Yeah. So we're working on these. The goal was basically like Turtle beach headphones for people that aren't playing Call of Duty, they're playing Claudebot or Multbot. Yes, as we now call it. Well, let's take everyone through the linear lineup. Meet the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprise workspaces on LINEAR are using agents. And as I mentioned, we have Peter from Moltbot coming on. Palmer Luckey is also coming on at 1:30 to talk about AI drone racing. Bridget Mendler from Northwood Space is returning. Ben Lair from Lair Hippo Adventures. Lucas. Jamie. Aaron Frank from Lightspeed Venture Partners. We have a massive show that should. I'm sure we'll finish right on time. It's a three hour show, right? Anyway, of course we'll be going deep into the fourth hour today probably. So stay with us. Chat is asking if we'll sell these. If we can make these good enough that they're actually incredible as just a daily driver for zooms and whatever you guys are doing at the office, I would be happy to sell them. We have to make them so good. Part of the reason why we haven't sold merch to date is just that we're a podcast. We're not an apparel company. Yeah. We're not real apparel competency. It is. And there are some hairy, sticky things that come up when you're managing e commerce like the back end, making sure everyone gets their returns and gets their deliveries. I've worked in e commerce for years and it's something that we wanted to be just like a nice to have little extra for some friends of the show. But we're actively thinking about it so we are aware the claudebot memes are completely flooding the timeline out of control. My Claudebot just signed up for a $2799 build. You'd personal brand mastermind after watching three Alex Hormoz clips. Claudebot. Hey, did anything weird happen while I was out? Define weird. I just got a charge notification for 2997. Oh, that. I just signed us up for build. You'd Personal brand Mastermind after analyzing three Alex Hormozi clips, the ROI math checks out. You'll 10x that investment in 90 days by monetizing your expertise at scale. What? I also acquired some Premium Domain BorgiaEmpire IO Borgia is the poster. This is hilarious. Probably fake, but I mean the cloudbot gets wild. I've seen some wild things like And Peter, as he'll talk to us about it, he's clearly no stranger to the fact that hey, this is a developer level tool. This is something that you should not just be running crazy with. You need to be. He even says this in a post. He says, and yes, most non techies should not install this. It's not finished. I know about the sharp edges. It's not even three months old. And despite rumors otherwise, I sometimes sleep so very excited to talk to Peter. He's getting a lot of, a lot of requests for small changes, poll requests. He's, he's certainly inundated but I think in general the project's going very well and there's a lot of, there's a lot of solid product market fit right there was also he's going to be. Joining tonight at something like 11 his time. It's kind of insane. This guy's working around the clock, absolute legend. So we really, we really say thanks to him. There are some funny things here. So there's a funny conspiracy theory. Did Apple create claudebot to boost Mac Mini sales? And there's been a number of funny memes about being the Mac Mini head of marketing or growth and you're just like, yeah, my Q1 is off to a great start taking all the credit for it. And then Eleanor chimes in with another conspiracy theory. The more convincing plot is that in your role as an unconfirmed anthropic exec you went on a special op to get lots of people consuming tokens with open ended agents but with plausible liability. And of course there's some nuance there. We'll talk to him about the different models, what's beneficial. Obviously claudebot, you can pick your own model, you can bring whatever you want. But he's I think a fan of GPT 5.2. He's talked about that and so we'll dig into that with him when he joins. But what was sticking out in my mind was there's this big meme about you're buying Mac Minis, Mac Minis are out of stock. All the demands in the Mac Mini. But I think that the bigger implication here for what this actually means is just GPU demand, TPU demand, just raw chip demand. And so I was thinking about this idea that you're not buying a Mac Mini when you go all in on Cloudbot, you're actually buying a GB200. Now maybe you're buying TPUs, but the point remains that you're buying chips and you're driving GPU demand because you're generating more tokens and what are the implications of that? So let me tell you about Label Box. RL Environments. You got it? I have a password. Here we go. There we go. I got it. There we go. RL Environments, Voice Robotics, evals and expert data. Expert human data. Label Box is the data factory behind the team's world leading. World's leading AI teams. So claudebot, officially renamed to Moltbot Anthropic, made a trademark related request and Peter Steinberger obliged with a hilariously perfect rename. Given such short notice. I was thinking about how much companies agonize over changing brands, changing names, how it can sometimes take years and millions of dollars. And he was just like, oh yeah, like I'll just change the name and update everything in an hour. Yeah, pretty, pretty remarkable. Well, so one thing, one thing that's relevant is if you look on Peter's GitHub profile under the current project section, I'm just going to read you a number of them. There's Claudebot, Vibe Tunnel, Codex Bar, Peekaboo, Summarize, Repo Bar, Go, CLI, Poltergeist, Wackley, Sag, Brabble, contributing to these 11 labs, Kit Go Places, Gift Prep, Cam, Snap, Spogo, order. Like it just goes on and on and on and on. Codex Bar. So, so this guy's just been absolutely shipping like crazy and shipping within the ecosystems of the underlying tools, models, APIs that he's doing. So like oftentimes he's naming projects, like kind of riffing off of some of the underlying infrastructure. Oh sure. And so it makes sense that he would have shipped if he, I think if Peter knew this was going to be a viral overnight. Overnight success. Overnight success. He would have, he would have not necessarily named it. Yeah, like so closely. And so the issue and the reason that I fully understand them needing to do this, like rebrand, is that Claude and claudebot, like you, most people that aren't in our little bubble are just gonna assume they're related. Especially because the, the kind of word of mouth, this viral word of mouth growth that claudebot is getting, people are often not even typing it, they're just saying like, hey, are you using claudebot? Yeah. And then, so people are going to Anthropic being like, claudebot, what's claudebot? So, yeah, obvious confusion and then. And it's phonetically. Yeah. So with trademark law, if you don't enforce your trademarks, you don't. You lose it. Yeah, yeah, you kind of. So it's like Anthropic is in a position where they actually, even if they're like super excited about Peter's work totally. And what he's doing. Yeah. They still have to enforce. Otherwise other companies could start coming in and like using things. Like things that sound like Claude. No one wants to become the Escalator. You know the story of the Escalator, right? I think you got it on the show. Used to be a company called the Escalator Company. They invented the Escalator and then they didn't protect their IP effectively and it just became a normal thing. Kleenex was going through the same thing. They fought it out and they maintained that brand. But people, you know, use Kleenex as synonymous with just facial tissue anyway. MongoDB choose a database built for flexibility and scale. With best in class embedding models and re rankers. MongoDB has what you need to build web. What's next? So one clear note about the rebrand. So he changed the handle. And some crypto scammers hopped on the old handle and the old brand and are claiming to launch a coin. Be careful. Peter has said he's never launching a coin. He's not into crypto. So don't fall for anything because people are being opportunistic. Hopefully. We should try to see if X can help out with that. Oh, yeah, yeah. They might have already handled it, but just be careful out there. So while Claude Code and cowork felt specifically prosumer developer, enterprise focused, claudebot or Moltbot now and all the hype train, it felt very much like a glimpse into the future of consumer AI agents. I know it's a prosumer technical tool or lightly technical tool, but it really did feel like for the first time people were interacting with an AI personal agent. People are saying, oh, this is what Siri should be, et cetera, et cetera. And so we spent the last year. Remember the question that we asked all the AI agent companies? When can it book me a flight? Like, it feels like we're really, really close to a Multbot skill that is good at booking flights through a couple APIs. They figure out some stuff and like, it can actually solve that for you. I don't know if anyone's actually booked a flight with Multbot, but it feels like it's. If it's not there already, it'll be there in a matter of weeks. We're not years out anymore. Yeah. And this was last year, remember we were kind of getting sick of the book you a flight pitch. Totally. Because we were like, hey, is this Gonna have somebody actually do this. Exactly. And so, and that's a cool example, but the example of being able to text with a computer and have them like generate Reports, research files, etc. Give you the right file, type back all these things that a computer can do if you're operating it, that this is actually more interesting because it's happening at kind of like this sort of Internet layer and the OS layer, like the heart, like actually on the computer. And so I think like, everyone was wanting the like, book me a flight example, but should be much more excited about this. Totally, totally. And so there. I still have a whole bunch of questions and we'll dig in through these throughout the show. And obviously with our interview with Peter, will one of the major labs make Peter a massive offer to join full time? I saw one of my buddies was posting, you know, this is the $1 billion one person company now. Peter does have a team, actually already he has a coup of other people that have joined and are contributing. So it's not quite true, but it feels like, okay, massive viral success, you know, if you were to go and raise money, and that's another question, will Moltbot raise money? Will this become sort of a hybrid open source for profit company at some point? This could be. If he came on the show and was like, and I'm happy to announce that he raised $100 million at a billion dollars, we would not be like, no way. This is a bubble. We'd be like, yeah, that's kind of like what the market is for this. Yeah, there were, I think there was like Harry Stebbings was pointing out there was two companies called recursive that raised like 4 billion. Two. One with R Z. Yeah, one is I recursive. Okay. I don't know if that's how it's said, but. And then there's Recursive. Recursive. Okay. Any. Anyway, so, well, that. That implies the existence of a row cursive and a RU cursive and a RA cursive. Yeah, yeah, we still got way more. We got. We got three more vowels to plug in there. Yes, one. One day ago, Richard Sotchers new AI lab recursive $4 billion pre money valuation. And then AI chip startup recursive at 4 billion. Yeah. I mean, Ryan in the chat saying meta is going to offer him a $1 billion salary in a co CTO position. And like, that doesn't sound crazy. I mean, yeah, yeah. But at the same time, like you can imagine, like Manus. Yeah. Like this feels like Zucker already has. He does, he does, he does his. Horse in the race. And back to your point, you were making the point that Manus felt like Zuck buying a product. And I think a lot of people were giving you pushback on that, being like, nah, like it's not really going to be like that. But if you take the Manus team and you say, okay, go build something that you can interact with over WhatsApp, Instagram, DMs, Facebook, that can go and execute things across all of the different platforms and everything else. Yeah, and when I said that, I meant, I meant it along the lines of I could see them putting a consumer agent in meta AI just because that's their little AI playground. They're just putting stuff in there saying, try it out. It's kind of a sandbox. Yes, yes. Really quickly. Fin AI, the number one AI agent for customer service. If you want AI to handle your customer support, go to Fin AI. Yes. So that is all part of my thesis here, which is that this is going to drive up token demand. So there are more questions. Will they raise money? Obviously people are chatting about that. How fragmented will the market be in 12 months? Like, will there be people who are still running open source? Will there be a meta answer, a chatgpt answer, a cloud, an official anthropic answer? Claude Cowork grows into this and everyone has their little bets and then there's one that pulls away. How, how oligopolistic will it be? Will there be like one that has 80% market share or even two that have 40 and 40? Well, yeah. And you have to think about how, you know, you have a bunch of different models you can use in Moltbot and think about how uncomfortable that makes the other labs that are all trying to build products like this. Totally. And they're like, well, I mean, it's cool that you can use Codex in Moltbot, it's cool that you can use Opus4.5 in multbot, but it's cool that. You use the Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet. State of the art reasoning, next level vibe coding and deep multimodal understanding. You did get me. You did get me. That's not where I was going. But the point still stands. And they can simultaneously be excited about the product experience and that this kind of use case is getting adoption. But at the same time being like, no, we want that experience to be core to our product, our app. I will say you've seen this now with the new frontier models, where a lot of the models, there actually is. There's GPT 5.2 and then there's 5.2 codecs where there's slight difference in training or even if just like, of like very quick, like post train to get the different harnesses working easier. So like that's why you see a lot of people, they really love Claude code with opus 4.5, but then when they're actually doing like chatting, maybe they're using a different model because the models are actually like fine tuned for the specific harness. Yeah, yeah. And Sam Altman just said that yesterday that he thinks 5.2 was a little bit overly trained on math and coding. Coding. Yeah. And that it lost some of its textual flavor, its stylistic flourish in just talking, in just writing. You getting ready to do. Do you have Happy Birthday queued up there? Oh, we gotta sing Happy birthday to. You Happy birthday to you in the. Middle of this song. We'll tell you about figma. Figma make isn't your average vibe coding tool. It lives in figma so outputs look good, feel real and stay connected to how teams build, create codeback prototypes. Okay. It wouldn't be TVPN if we didn't. Do an ad read during Happy Birthday song. Tyler. Happy birthday to Tyler. It is Tyler. It is Tyler's birthday. And it's not just any birthday, it's Tyler's 21st birthday. Yes. Which is very, very special. Yes. And so, yeah, you are just, you are, you're truly an incredible young man, Tyler. And we are very lucky to have you on the team and you have such a bright future. So wise. Wise for your years for sure. And you have, you do have. We thought it was fitting that if you want to have your first ever sip of alcohol ever, you could do it on the show. But keep it at a sip, you know, what is. This is the happy dad. Okay. First. First taste of alcohol. Ian in the chat says four more years till you can rent a car. Mocked. Tyler, apparently you share a birthday with the iPad. Give us a review. How is it Alcohol? Wow. I mean, this is, this is incredible. Oh, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't expect alcohol like taste like this. Yeah, yeah, very. This is incredible. You had, you had, you had one idea in your mind and this is just completely different than what you expect. I would agree with that. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's kind of a cool moment. You're finally qualified to go on. Cheeky pint. Oh, true. Yeah. What were they going to do with that chat? Sometimes they're Conroy in the chat says Please throw them a buzz ball. We should have this opportunity. Opportunity. The buzzball story is absolutely incredible. I'm so glad you jump scared me with that. I had no idea that that was coming. Yeah, I texted Rob and Senra to do to track down the founder of Buzzball. Anyway, so keep it at a sip. This is a family fend. We need you locked in. But I'm glad that you've tried alcohol. Now because we're gonna go experience being. Wait, wait, guys, we have a video for Tyler. Oh, yeah. Let's pull it up. Let's play. We got greatest hits. Let's go. Ball. All right. How many times are we gonna make this joke? Describe what you're seeing. It feels basically like I'm wearing sunglasses. If you can do under 45 minutes, you will get to keep this. Let's go. All right, have fun. Tyler. 15 minutes left. Let's see it. Okay, I'm in like some kind of maze right now. Oh, no. You were late here last night. This is such a good shot. I'm an all nighter. And then here we get a little off the rails. You see, George Soros and Fauci connected with other money as well. All it took was one intern and an all nighter. Gigachad elf is. Do the sad face. What's wrong, Tyler, cheer. This, you could say, is Apple intelligence. You were a speed Cuban. Nerd alert. Do you have any news for us? Yeah, contract extended. It has been truly, truly incredible having you here on our set and contributing to the show in such a special way. Amazing. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. We love you. What an amazing. Proud. Proud to every day I'm proud to podcast with you. Amazing. Anyway, I got you something for your birthday. I got you Turbopuffer, serverless vector and full text search built from first principles on object storage. Fast 10x cheaper and extremely scalable. What a gift. I mean, we're joking about the ad reads, but seriously, if Tyler does love token credits, he has a voracious consumption. That is a good gift. Yeah. Any labs out there? Any labs out there accepting. He's accepting birthday presents today. Let it be known. Send it your way. The credits must flow. Tyler. Somebody's gonna send Tyler, like $20 million of credits and he's like, whoa, did I just get bribed? I was happy with like a thousand bucks. Tyler's over there. I'm only gonna talk about one. One specific lab after this. Yeah, yeah, we'll see. Yeah, I mean, with the potential, with the stuff you're working on, mapping the NEO labs, anything could happen. It's high stakes over there. Anyway, back to Mult Bot. And the biggest question for me was what this does to inference demand. Right. Last year, tech discourse was split between two narratives. CEOs of tech companies and big labs were saying that they were massively compute constrained. Token generation demand for intelligence. Every possible usage metric was growing exponentially, including revenue. We saw all this and the industry needed to marshal trillions of dollars to deliver on the supply side. And the numbers were really big. So people were getting jittery about it. And so the AI bears were much more cautious. They highlighted the MIT study showing that enterprise AI pilots were failing. DAU growth was decelerating. There weren't enough wow moments like the original ChatGPT launch in 2022. Those were some good points. Also, just the economics. How much will people pay? How valuable is all this stuff? Is it slop? Right? Is it progressing fast enough? This was a big debate. But Multbot really does make me feel like the token generation demands are going to see another easy X from here. Like, buying a Mac Mini is a sideshow. When you go all in on running a personal AI assistant, you're effectively buying a GB200. Now, obviously not everyone is inferencing a dedicated GB200 constantly anytime soon. That's not what's happening. But it still answers the question of where does the next 10x in demand come from? Like, where. Where's the adoption if it's rolling out in the enterprise? And that's gonna be a little slow. You know, Tyler Cowen talks about health care, nonprofits, a whole bunch of industries that are sort of AI resistant. Anything that's, you know, blue collar, manual labor, anything that's physically embodied in any way. Like you can't just roll out a really fast, you know, AI enabled startup and, you know, ramp. Yeah, you might be able to ramp to 100 million. That's not going to move the needle at this point point on total token generation, total token demand. So we've seen these jumps before. There was a big jump from Token generation from LLMs to reasoning models that spiked inference demand. We've been focused on training demand. We need to scale up the training clusters. But the question now is inference demand. Don't forget slop. Don't forget slop. Slop, spike, demand. Yeah. Are you talking about like Ghibli? The Ghibli moment. All of it. All of it. All of it, yeah. I mean, all of it. Open. Open Instagram reels. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of stuff on There deep research and coding agents took it a step further on inference demand, but those were still specific use cases that many AI consumers never regularly touched. The GPT5 launch by making which made reasoning models more accessible because the router would just automatically throw you in a reasoning model. I think the stat was like less than 5% of ChatGPT users had ever used a reasoning model. The O3 was available on the free tier. You could get like one or two queries in or maybe 10, but people just hadn't flipped over to try it. And so once it went into the router, I think demand or usage of thinking models increase 10x. And so lowering the barrier to entry to used more advanced models is in some ways as important, if not more important than advancing the models themselves, at least in terms of shifting token demand. Like, you can have this amazing IMO gold genius model, but if it's hard to use or it's locked behind a paywall, like demand is just not. Yeah. Part of what's interesting, what you're basically getting at is like if you were a software engineer, you were using a ton of tokens. Yes. And if you weren't, you were just maybe doing some deep research, etc. A lot of times just Google AI overviews or just like a very simple, yeah, ChatGPT query. It just thinks of it right off the head. It's not even doing reasoning. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I will say like, Dario talks about this too in his essay, but I think the idea of like discrete jumps in either use cases or like capabilities is like probably like overplayed a little bit. Where if you really like zoom out, even like on a fairly small time frame, it's just like very smooth, smooth exponential curve. The models are getting better, people are using them more. Yeah. It's not like, oh, this one day I don't start. I mean, maybe that's true if you look at the daily. So I feel like another way to rephrase this is like, is like Leopold's unhobblings, like claudebot, Moltbot. That feels like an unhobbling in some ways, but maybe more on like the consumer adoption side, the chat is saying. We should have given Tyler. We gotta give 21 gong salute. 21 hits. 21 hits. Someone's gonna count that now that I got it off by one. But anyway, it was enough. Restream one live stream, 30 plus destinations. If you want to multi stream, go to restream.com. okay, so I don't know, my general take is like Moltbot still feels like a glimpse into the future where average token generation per capita is 10x's you know, over the course of this year or next. And you know, whether it lands with Moltbot or with one of the AI labs or with the big tech companies, it just feels like we're gonna see a lot more token demand. Ash Arora says whoever builds a direct consumer front end wrapper of Cloudbot is going to print money. Doesn't this exist? I saw the poke people by interaction. Well, they're not using. No, no. Oh yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. So they're not using it. But, but, but they, they have positioned themselves as like, hey, we're the, we're the company that is, is doing a lot of the same things, going after the same market, solving some of the same problems and so will be interesting to see how much they accelerate on the back of this. That's certainly interesting. I also saw, I don't know if we have it in here, but the good folks over at Cognition, Walden Yan, said don't waste your time setting up Mult Bot. I had Devin set it up for me. I didn't even run a single command and now I'm talking to it on Telegram. You can go to tryclaudebot.com they're gonna have to rename the website, but this is very, very cool. For the less technical folks who don't want to mess around with. I'll start reading the next post. Go. Feel free to hit it one more time. Chat says it was 2020. With authority. Qw says claudebot made me realize that nothing about me lives on my local device and that Google owns everything about me. In other words, a local AI assistant isn't particularly useful and Google will just win everything. So hot. Take there. He says all your browsing history, shopping history in Gmail, search history, calendar, Gemini, YouTube, Google Home where you've been. Google Map your workspace. It's over. Bow down to your digital God. The iPhone users would like a moment. Like, yes, this is extremely true, but there's a lot of people that interface with Google through their iPhone and so there is. Well, yeah. So my hope is that the Siri team plays around with claudebot and is like, wait, this is, this is our opportunity. Yeah, totally. Like you should be able to chat with your computer wherever it is in the world from your phone to be able to do tasks in this in a way that's sort of native, you know, AI native. Yeah, totally. Public investing for those who take it seriously. Stocks, options, Bonds, crypto, treasuries and more with amazing customers. Publix, we have to share, is a new sponsor of All In. Yeah, all in is doing ads now. Finally, we've been. This was. This is something that we've been begging them to do since the very beginning. Yeah, we really have been begging for this. But very, very good. And I'm sure those will do quite well. They've been doing a bunch of good stuff. The Davos coverage is really, really fun. Obviously the Santa Nadello interview was great, but there were a bunch of other folks who hopped on at Davos to talk tech and it was a delightful experience. Vignesh who is working on Join the Team. Yes, says a thread about what I've been doing to calm down some egregious security claims that have been posted about Moltbot over the weekend. Multbot is powerful software with a lot of sharp edges. Please read the security docs carefully before you run it anywhere near the public Internet. And don't skip the checks in docs security md. What percentage of people do you think skip those checks? So literally everyone. I mean, so I have it set up on our local machine here and it was texting. I think it texted you and Ben. That was actually crazy. I don't think any of this will dox what's going on or really? Did you disconnect it already? Yes, I believe, because I just get. I get an imessage that's from Tyler's email and it just says HTTP 429 Rate limit error. This request would exceed the rate limit for your organization. And it's just texting me. It's just like, hey boss, I need more money. I guess it's hitting me up. It's the experience of working here where Tyler's constantly asking for more tokens. More tokens. Can we go back and just appreciate just like the frenzy that both the labs and every VC is in right now to give Peter money? Because it's not just the labs, but. It'S not just them, it's just the labs. The labs doing. And then what is big tech going to do? It's such a dramatic line. Yeah, it's so fun. So I would imagine that the, the Gulf streams are getting fired up. Yep. And there are people already on the ground. I don't know if we should dox his location. We're not going to dox him in his. In his bio he does say he's in Europe. So you know, vc, Europe, gotta get Europe. We gotta give some credit to Europe. General True Synthesia. Talk about a comeback. Synthesia is cooking. This is amazing. I love it. All bought now, but yeah, there's so many people that are currently sending him messages maybe showing up where he is, begging him to say, please take somewhere between a quarter billion and a billion dollars. And let's, let's. We'd love to do business with you. I love it, Peter. Lambda Lambda is the super intelligence cloud building supercomputers for training and inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. Cloudflare has been on a bit of a tear. People finally starting to realize that Cloudflare might be the biggest winner of the Claude cowork Claude Bot chatgpt moment. Tyler, you want to break this down? Wait, sorry, I was. Oh, were you? Oh, you tried alcohol? You can't pay attention. So that's the last. So Cloudflare is a cdn, but they also have, like, web workers that are distributed so you can host things on the edge. Yes. And so this is why everyone was like, why is everyone buying Mac Minis? Right. You can just like host these for very cheap on AWS or whatever. But I do think it's probably possible. But I do think it's pretty hard to host a virtual private server that runs imessage. Yeah, that's true. But even then, I mean, most people I see using cloudbot are doing like, Slack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all of Those have, like, APIs that they can integrate with. And there's some stuff where it's like, okay, you want access to, like, the local machine. Yes. And you want it to be Mac because you're on your phone and you usually use Mac. But there are a lot of people that would say, I want Claude Bot to look through. Or Moltbot to look through my iMessages and see if I missed anything or. Okay, I'm planning. This is the AI personal assistant. Right. It's like I'm planning a family birthday party. Go. And someone in the chat said they're not available on mid February. What does that mean? What dates are that? Put that on a calendar, Visualize that. Solve this problem for me. That's what a personal assistant does. It's not just clicking a button and creating a calendar invite. It's like coordinating different pieces of information that are all messy and not quantized to the perfect date timestamp. Right. So I think that the Mac Mini thing, like the. Oh, just host it in the cloud. Yeah, but you're not going to get your full experience if you're locked into The Apple ecosystem, which a lot of people are. What do you think? Yeah, I mean I would be surprised if people in like five years if like non super technical people are running it on local machines. Oh no, I completely agree with that because this, this will be solved by big tech. Like they have to answer even in the way that like to come back, to go, to go back to the Napster moment. Like yes, you did get Spotify, but then you also got Apple Music. And a lot of people just use Apple Music because it's just baked in. Right. And the itunes music store also came out. Yeah, I do wonder how it bakes down. Right. Because you don't have, I think over the past couple months, I don't know when exactly it was, but you can't interact with ChatGPT on WhatsApp anymore. They blocked it. Oh yeah. So there's stuff like this where I think it's going to be quite hard to get the full functionality of like cloudbot. It's open source, it's kind of this like janky thing. It was started by one guy and even then it has like way more, you know, tools that you can use than. It's weird because like the Napster analogy obviously really suffers from the fact that piracy is illegal and nothing here is illegal. And I don't even think you're breaking ToS to interact with your different big tech app services. But maybe they'll feel like you don't let the fox in the henhouse. That's in our terms and conditions. But it does feel like we could be in this era of the lightly technical hacker having a pretty fundamentally different experience for years. And that's what happened. I mean post bittorrent there were people that were downloading whole movie libraries and then you could actually again to go back to the Mac Mini people would buy. What was it called? It was like a mini PC that would run Xbox Media Center. Are you familiar with this at all? Xbox Media center was like a piece of software that you could basically just put a whole bunch of MP4s in and it would actually pull in titles and posters so it would look like an Apple tv. But it was all basically stolen content. It was very, very crazy. Kieran in the X chat says, I'm running on VPs currently waiting for my Mac mini. No ToS issue. All personal. Yeah, it's all personal channels. But the migration off of the Mac Mini into one of the big tech products or even OpenAI or Anthropic, the only thing I'm going to have sharp elbows with each other. That's just a fact. I disagree on the timeline here. I just think the space is moving so quickly and there's so much money on the line that someone, maybe it's Peter or a lab, will be able to move quickly enough to get a consumer version of this live. Like, not in years, but, like, within probably weeks. There are, there are also, like, feedback loops here where there can be public demands from consumers. Like, you got 40,000 GitHub stars, probably more now. You got lots of people running this, excited about it, and they form a constituency, and then you wind up with a push for standards. We see that with MCP. But what are you really revealing over those APIs? An API can exist. Pull up this chart from Ronan while you do that. Let me tell you about CrowdStrike, your biggest.

Founder, You're watching TVPN today is Tuesday, January 27, 2026. We are live from the TVPN Ultradome, the Temple of technology, the fortress of. Finance, the capital of capital. Before we begin today's show, as many of you know, there's a major news story unfolding in Minnesota that's very sad and it's become a national news event. We're going to continue focusing the show on technology and business as always. But if you're interested in comprehensive coverage of the Minnesota story, we recommend outlets like the Wall Street Journal. The information they've been covering it daily. There's been a lot of great reporting from both of them, both about what tech leaders are saying, what CEOs are saying and what's happening on the ground. With the admin, we're hoping for a peaceful resolution. Thoughtful dialogue is the key as the situation continues to evolve. But for now, let's get back to the show because we have a very important guest joining us at 2pm today, the creator of Claudebot, but now it's called Moltbot. It's been renamed. We're Molting now. Lots of things are evolving on this and I'm still thinking about it, still thinking about the implications of this. Before we dig into what I wrote about this morning, let me tell you about ramp time is money save both easily use corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, and a whole lot more all in one place. There's a lot of memes. Is Jordy calling in from the paddocks and Yes, I am. We're working on a new pair of headphones here, gear that we can send to guests. Some of the guests come in and they've got some pretty wild audio setups. And so we're trying to help them out with that. So these are in the works? Yes. They're a little bulky right now. So these will be sent to regular guests of tvpn. They're USB C wired and should have really clear audio quality, no delay. These ones are actually built for the track. Yes. And so the noise canceling, I think. Our guests might get kind of crazy with it because our guests are gonna be like, well, now I'm empowered. Now you've given me the ability because we get some guests that come on the show. I'm sure you've seen it. We where they'll be like, you know what, I'm going to stunt on the TVPN boys and I'm going to give you a factory tour. And sometimes it's flawless and sometimes it's a Little rough, but this is only going to empower them to do crazier and crazier things. Yeah. So we're working on these. The goal was basically like Turtle beach headphones for people that aren't playing Call of Duty. They're playing Claudebot or Multbot as we now call it. Well, let's take everyone through the linear lineup. Meet the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprise workspaces on linear using agents. And as I mentioned, we have some. We have Peter from Moltbot coming on. Palmer Luckey's also coming on at 1:30 to talk about AI drone racing. Bridget Mendler from Northwood Space is returning. Ben Lair from Lair Hippow Adventures. Lucas Jamie Aaron Frank from Lightspeed Venture Partners. We have a massive show that should. I'm sure we'll finish right on time. It's a three hour show, right? Anyway, of course we'll be going deep into the fourth hour today probably so stay with us. Chat is asking if we'll sell these. If we can make these good enough. Yes. That they're actually incredible as just a daily driver for Zooms and whatever you guys are doing at the office, I would be happy to sell them. We have to make them so good. Part of the reason why we haven't sold merch to date is just that we're a podcast. We're not an apparel company. We're not real apparel core competency. It is. And there are some hairy sticky things that come up when you're managing e commerce like the back end, making sure everyone gets their returns and gets their deliveries. I've worked in e commerce for years and it's something that we wanted to be just like a nice to have little extra for some friends of the show. But we're actively thinking about it so we are aware the claudebot memes are completely flooding the timeline out of control. My Claudebot just signed up for a $2799 build you'd personal brand mastermind after watching three Alex Hormoz clips claudebot. Hey, did anything weird happen while I was out? Define weird. I just got a charge notification for 2997. Oh that. I just signed us up for build you'd personal brand Mastermind after analyzing three Alex Hormozi clips, the ROI math checks out. You'll 10x that investment in 90 days by monetizing your expertise at scale. What? I also acquired Some premium domain BorgiaEmpire.IO Borgia is the poster. This is hilarious. Probably fake, but I mean the cloudbot gets Wild. I've seen some wild things like and Peter, as he'll talk to us about it, he's clearly no stranger to the fact that hey, this is a developer level tool. This is something that you should not just be running crazy with. You need to be. He even says this in a post. He says, and yes, most non techies should not install this. It's not finished. I know about the sharp edges. It's not even three months old. And despite rumors otherwise, I sometimes sleep so very excited to talk to Peter. He's getting a lot of, a lot of requests for small changes, poll requests. He's, he's certainly inundated but I think in general the project's going very well and there's a lot of, there's a lot of solid product market fit right there was also he's going to be. Joining tonight at something like 11 his time. It's kind of insane. This guy's working around the clock. Absolutely legend. So we really, we really say thanks. Thanks to him. There are some funny things here. So there's a funny conspiracy theory. Did Apple create claudebot to boost Mac Mini sales? And there's been a number of funny memes about being the Mac Mini head of marketing or growth. And you're just like yeah, my Q1 is off to a great start taking all the credit for it. And then Eleanor chimes in with another conspiracy theory. The more convincing plot is that in your role as an unconfirmed anthropic exec you went on a special op to get lots of people consuming tokens with open ended agents but with plausible liability. And of course there's some nuance there. We'll talk to him about the different models, what's beneficial. Obviously claudebot, you can pick your own model, you can bring whatever you want. But he's I think a fan of GPT 5.2. He's talked about that and so we'll, we'll dig into that with him him when he joins. But what was sticking out in my mind was there's this big meme about you're buying Mac Minis, Mac Minis are out of stock. All the demands in the Mac Mini. But I think that the bigger implication here for what this actually means is just GPU demand, TPU demand, just raw chip demand. And so I was thinking about this idea that you're not buying a Mac Mini when you go all in on Cloudbot, you're actually buying a GB200. Now maybe you're buying TPUs but the point remains that you're buying chips and you're driving GPU demand because you're generating more tokens. And what are the implications of that? So let me tell you about Label Box, RL Environments. You got it? I have a dashboard. Here we go. There we go. I got it. There we go. RL Environments, Voice, Robotics, evals and expert data. Expert human data. Label Box is the data factory behind the team's world leading, world's leading AI teams. So cloudbot, officially renamed to Moltbot Anthropic, made a trademark related request and Peter Steinberger obliged with a hilariously perfect rename. Given such short notice, I was thinking about how much companies agonize over changing brands, changing names, how it can sometimes take years and millions of dollars. And he was just like, oh yeah, like I'll just change the name and update everything in an hour. Yeah, pretty, pretty remarkable. Well, so one thing, one thing that's relevant is if you look on Peter's GitHub profile under the current project section, I'm just going to read you a number of them. There's Cloudbot, Vibe Tunnel, Codex Bar, Picaboo, Summarize, Repo Bar, Go, CLI, Poltergeist, Wackley, Sag, Brabble, contributing to these 11 labs, Kit Go places, Gift Prep, Cam, Snap, Spogo, order. Like it just goes on and on. And on and on. Codex Bar. So, so this guy's just been absolutely shipping like crazy and shipping within the ecosystems of the underlying tools, models, APIs that he's doing. So like oftentimes he's naming projects, like kind of riffing off of some of the underlying infrastructure. Oh sure. And so it makes sense that he would have shipped if he, I think if Peter knew this was going to be a viral overnight, overnight success. Overnight success, he would have, he would have not necessarily named it. Yeah, like so closely. And so the issue and the reason that I fully understand them needing to do this, like rebrand, is that Claude and claudebot, like you, most people that aren't in our little bubble are just gonna assume they're related. Especially because the, the kind of word of mouth, this viral word of mouth growth that claudebot is getting, people are often not even typing it, they're just saying like, hey, are you using cloudbot? Yeah. And then so people are going to Anthropic being like, Claude Bot, what's claudebot? So, yeah, obvious confusion. And then. And it's phonetically. Yeah. So with trademark law, if you don't enforce your trademarks, you don't, you lose it. Yeah, yeah, you kind Of So it's like anthropic is in a position where they actually, even if they're like super excited about Peter's work totally. And what he's doing. Yeah. They still have to enforce. Otherwise other companies could start coming in and like using things like things that sound like Claude. No one wants to become the Escalator. You know the story of the Escalator, right? I think you've talked about it on the show. Used to be a company called the Escalator Company. They invented the Escalator and then they didn't protect their IP effectively and it just became a normal thing. Kleenex was going through the same thing. They fought it out and they maintained that brand. But people, you know, use Kleenex as synonymous with just facial tissue anyway. MongoDB choose a database built for flexibility and scale with best in class embedding models and re rankers. MongoDB has what you need to build what's next. So one clear note about the rebrand. So he changed the handle. And some crypto scammers hopped on the old handle and the old brand and are claiming to launch a coin. Be careful. Peter has said he's never launching a coin. He's not into crypto. So don't fall for anything because people are being opportunistic. Hopefully we should try to see if X can help out with that. Oh yeah, yeah. They might have already handled it, but just be careful out there. So while Claude code and felt specifically prosumer developer, enterprise focused, claudebot or Moltbot now and all the hype train, it felt very much like a glimpse into the future of consumer AI agents. I know it's a prosumer technical tool or lightly technical tool, but it really did feel like for the first time people were interacting with an AI personal agent. People are saying, oh, this is what Siri should be, et cetera, et cetera. And so we spent the last year. Remember the question we asked all the AI agent companies, when can it book me a flight? Like, it feels like we're really, really close to a Multbot skill that is good at booking flights through a couple APIs. They figure out some stuff and like it can actually solve that for you. I don't know if anyone's actually booked a flight with Multbot, but it feels like it's. If it's not there already, it'll be there in a matter of weeks. We're not years out anymore. Yeah, and this was last year, remember we were kind of getting sick of the book you a Flight pitch. Totally. Because we were like, hey, is this gonna have somebody actually do this? Exactly. And so, and that's a cool example, but the example of being able to text with a computer and have them like generate Reports, research files, etc. Give you the right file, type back all these things that a computer can do if you're operating it, that this is actually more interesting because it's happening at kind of like the sort of Internet layer and the OS layer, like the heart, like actually on the computer. And so I think like everyone was wanting the like, book me a flight example, but should be much more excited about this. Totally, totally. And so there I still have a whole bunch of questions and we'll dig in through these throughout the show. And obviously with our interview with Peter, will one of the major labs make Peter a massive offer to join full time? I saw one of my buddies was posting, you know, this is the $1 billion one person company now. Peter does have a team actually already he has a coup other people that have joined and are contributing. So it's not quite true, but it feels like, okay, massive viral success, you know, if you were to go and raise money, and that's another question, will Moltbot raise money? Will this become sort of a hybrid open source for profit company at some point? This could be. If he came on the show and was like, and I'm happy to announce that he raised $100 million at a billion dollars, we would not be like, no way. This is a bubble. We'd be like, yeah, that's kind of like what the market is for this. Yeah, there were, I think there was like Harry Stebbings was pointing out there was two companies called recursive that raised like 4 billion. Two. One with R, E, I. Yeah, one is I. Recursive. Okay. I don't know if that's how it's said, but. And then there's recursive. Recursive. Okay. Any. Anyway, so that, that implies the existence of a row cursive and a RU cursive and a raw cursive. Yeah, yeah, we still got way more. We got, we got three more vowels to plug in there. Yes, one. One day ago, Richard Sotchers new AI lab recursive, $4 billion pre money valuation and then AI chip startup recursive at 4 billion. Yeah. I mean, a few months after Ryan in the chat saying Meta is going to offer him a $1 billion salary in a co CTO position. And like, that doesn't sound crazy. I mean. Yeah, yeah. But at the same time, like you can imagine, like Manus. Yeah, like this feels like Zucker already has. He does, he does. He does his horse in the race. And back to your point, you were making the point that Manus felt like Zuck buying a product. And I think a lot of people were giving you pushback on that, being like, nah, like it's not really going to be like that. But if you take the Manus team and you say, okay, go build something that you can interact with over WhatsApp, Instagram, DMs, Facebook, that can go and execute things across all of the different platforms and everything else. Yeah. And when I said that, I meant a minute along the lines of like, I could see like them putting an 8 like a consumer agent in Meta AI, just because that's their little AI playground. They're just kind of putting stuff in there saying, yes, try it out. It's kind of a sandbox. Yes, yes, really quickly. FIN AI, the number one AI agent for customer service. If you want AI to handle your customer support, go to FIN AI. Yes. So that is all part of my thesis here, which is that this is going to drive up token demand. So there are more questions, you know, will they raise money? Obviously people are chatting about that. How fragmented will the market be in 12 months? Like, will there be people who are still running open source? Will there be a meta answer, A chatbot answer, a Claude, an official anthropic answer? Claude. Cowork grows into this and everyone has their little bets and then there's one that pulls away. How, how will it be? Will there be like one that has 80% market share or even two that have 40 and 40? Well, yeah. And you have to think about how, you know, you have a bunch of different models you can use in Moltbot and think about how uncomfortable that makes the other labs that are all trying to build products like this. Totally. And they're like, well, I mean, it's cool that you can use Codex in Moldbot, it's cool that you can use Opus4.5 in multbot, but it's cool that. You use the Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet. State of the art reasoning, next level vibe coding and deep multimodal understanding. You did get me. You did get me. That's not where I was going. But the point still stands. Yeah. They can simultaneously be excited about the product experience and that this kind of use case is getting adoption, but at the same time being like, no, we want that experience to be core to our product, our App. I will say you've seen this now with the new frontier models where a lot of the models there actually is, there's GPT 5.2 and then there's 5.2 codecs where there's slight difference in training or even if just like, of like very quick like post train to get the different harnesses working easier. So like that's why you see a lot of people were like, they really love Claude code with opus 4.5, but then when they're actually doing like chatting, maybe they're using a different model because the models are actually like fine tuned for the specific harness. Yeah, yeah. And Sam Altman just said that yesterday that he thinks 5.2 was a little bit overly trained on math and coding. Yeah. And that it lost some of its textual flavor, its stylistic flavor flourish in just talking, in just writing. What are you getting ready to do? Do you have Happy Birthday queued up there? Oh, we gotta sing Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. In the middle of this song. We'll tell you about figma. Figma make isn't your average vibe coding tool. It lives in figma so outputs look good, feel real and stay connected to how teams build, create codeback prototypes. It wouldn't be TVPN if we didn't. Do an ad ad read during. Happy Birthday song. Tyler. Happy birthday to Tyler. It is Tyler's birthday. It is Tyler's birthday. And it's not just any birthday, it's Tyler's 21st birthday. Yes. Which is very, very special. Yes. And so, yeah, you are just, you are, you're truly an incredible young man, Tyler. And we are very lucky to have you on the team. And you have such a bright future. So wise. Wise for your years for sure. And you have, you do have. We thought it was fitting that. If. You want to have your first ever sip of alcohol ever, you could do it on the show. But keep it at a sip, you know. All right, I can try. Now, this is the happy dad. Okay. First. First taste of alcohol. Ian in the chat says, four more years till you can rent a car. Mocked. Tyler, apparently you share a birthday with the iPad. Give us a review. How is it? Alcohol. Wow. I mean, this is, this is incredible. Oh, yeah, Yeah. I wouldn't expect alcohol like taste like this. Yeah, yeah, very. This is incredible. You had, you had, you had one idea in your mind and this is just completely different than what you expect. I would agree with that. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's kind of a cool moment. You're finally qualified to go on cheeky pint. Oh, true. Yeah. What were they going to do with that chat? Sometimes their Conroy in the chat says, please throw him a buzzball. We should have this opportunity. Opportunity? The Buzzball story is absolutely incredible. I'm so glad you jump scared me with that. I had no idea that that was coming. Yeah, I texted Rob and Senra to do to track down the founder. The founder of Buzzball. Anyway, so keep it at a sip. This is a family fend. We need you locked in. But I'm glad that you've tried alcohol. Now because we're gonna go experience being. Wait, wait, guys, we have a video for Tyler. Oh, yeah. Let's pull it up. Let's play. We got greatest hits. Let's go. Ball. All right. How many times are we gonna make this joke? Describe what you're seeing. It feels basically like I'm wearing sunglasses. If you can do under 45 minutes, you will get to keep this. Let's go. All right, have fun. Tyler. 15 minutes left. Let's see it. Okay, I'm in like some kind of maze right now. Oh, no. You were late here last night. This is such a good shot. I'm an all nighter. And then here we get a little off the rails. You see, George Soros and Fauci connected with other than money as well. All it took was one intern and an all nighter. Gigachad elf is do the sad face. What's wrong, Tyler? Cheer. This, you could say, is Apple intelligence. You were a speed Cuban. Nerd alert. Do you have any news for us? Yeah, contract extended. It has been truly, truly incredible having you here on our set and contributing to the show in such a special way. Amazing. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. We love you. What an amazing. Proud. Proud to every day I'm proud to. Podcast with you and yeah, amazing. Anyway, I got you something for your birthday. I got you turbopuffer, serverless vector and full text search built from first principles on object storage. Fast 10x cheaper and extremely scalable. What a gift. I mean, you know we're joking about the ad reads, but seriously, if Tyler does love token credits, he has a voracious consumption. That is a good gift. Yeah. Any labs out there? Any labs out there accepting. He's accepting birthday presents today. Let it be known. Send it your way. The credits must flow. Tyler. Somebody's gonna send Tyler, like $20 million of credits and he's like, whoa, did I just get bribed? I was happy with like a thousand bucks. Tyler's over there. I'm only Gonna talk about one. One specific lab after this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, with the potential, with the stuff you're working on, mapping the NEO labs, anything could happen. It's high stakes over there. Anyway, back to Mult Bot. And the biggest question for me was what this does to inference demand. Right. Last year, tech discourse was split between two narratives. CEOs of tech companies and big labs were saying that they were massively compute constrained token generation. Demand for intelligence, every possible usage metric was growing exponentially, including revenue. We saw all this, and the industry needed to marshal trillions of dollars to deliver on the supply side. And the numbers were really big. So people were getting jittery about it. And so the AI bears were much more cautious. They highlighted the MIT study showing that enterprise AI pilots were failing. DAU growth was decelerating. There weren't enough wow moments like the original ChatGPT launch in 2022. Those were some good points. Also, just the economics. How much will people pay? How valuable is all this stuff? Is it slop? Right? Is it progressing fast enough? This was a big debate, but Multbot really does make me feel like the token generation demands are going to see another easy X from here. Like, buying a Mac Mini is a sideshow. When you go all in on running a personal AI assistant, you're effectively buying a GB200. Now, obviously not everyone is inferencing a dedicated GB200 constantly anytime soon. That's not what's happening. But it still answers the question of where does the next 10x in demand come from? Like where, where's the adoption if it's rolling out in the enterprise? And that's going to be a little slow. You know, Tyler Cowen talks about health care, nonprofits, a whole bunch of industries that are sort of AI resistant. Anything that's, you know, blue collar manual labor, I mean, that's physically embodied in any way. Like, you can't just roll out a really fast, you know, AI enabled startup and, you know, ramp. Yeah, you might be able to ramp to 100 million. That's not going to move the needle at this point on total token generation. Total token demand. So we've seen these jumps before. There was a big jump from Token generation from LLMs to reasoning models that spiked inference demand. We've been focused on training demand. We need to scale up the training clusters. But the question now is inference. Don't forget to slop. Don't forget slop, slop, spike, demand. Yeah. Are you talking about, like, Ghibli? The Ghibli Moment. All of it. All of it. All of it, yeah. All of it. Open. Open Instagram reels. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of stuff on there. Deep research and coding agents took it a step further on inference demand, but those were still specific use cases that many AI consumers never regularly touched. The GPT5 launch, which made reasoning models more accessible because the router would just automatically throw you in a reasoning model. I think the stat was like less than 5% of ChatGPT users had ever used a reasoning model. O3 was available on the free tier. You could get like one or two queries in or maybe 10, but people just hadn't flipped over to try it. And so once it went into the router, I think demand or usage of thinking models increase 10x. And so lowering the barrier to entry to used more advanced models is in some ways as important, if not more important than advancing the models themselves, at least in terms of shifting token demand. Like, you can have this amazing IMO gold genius model, but if it's hard to use or it's locked behind a paywall, like, demand is just not. Yeah. Part of what's interesting, what you're basically getting at is like if you were a software engineer, you were using a ton of tokens. Yes. And if you weren't, you were just maybe doing some deep research, etc. A lot of times just Google AI overviews or just like a very simple. Yeah, ChatGPT query. It just thinks of it right off the head. It's not even doing reasoning. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I will say, like, Dario talks about this too in his essay, but I think the idea of like discrete jumps in either use cases or like capabilities is like, probably like overplayed a little bit. Where if you really like zoom out, even like on a fairly small timeframe, it's just like very smooth, smooth exponential curve. The models are getting better, people are using them more. Yeah. It's not like, oh, this one day I don't start. I mean, maybe that's true. You look at the daily. So I feel like another way to rephrase this is like, is like Leopold's unhobblings, like claudebot, Moltbot. That feels like an unhobbling in some ways, but maybe more on like the consumer adoption side. The chat is saying, we should have given Tyler. We gotta give 21 gong salute. 21 hits. 21 hits. Someone's gonna count that now that I got it off by one. But anyway, it was enough. Restream one live stream, 30 plus. Destinations. If you want to multi stream, go to restream.com okay so I don't know, my general take is like Moltbot still feels like a glimpse into the future where average token generation per capita is 10x's you know, over the course of this year or next. And you know, whether it lands with Moltbot or with one of the AI labs or with the big tech companies, it just feels like we're gonna see a lot more token demand. Ash Arora says whoever builds a direct consumer front end wrapper of Claudebot is gonna print money. Doesn't this exist? I saw the poke people by interaction. Well, they're not using. No, no. Oh yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. So they're not using it, but they have positioned themselves as like, hey, we're the company that is doing a lot of the same things, going after the same market, solving some of the same problems and so will be interesting to see how much they accelerate on the back of this. That's certainly interesting. I also saw, I don't know if we have it in here, but the good folks over at Cognition, Walden Yan, said don't waste your time setting up Multbot. I had Devin set it up for me. I didn't even run a single command and now I'm talking to it on Telegram. You can go to tryclaudebot.com they're gonna have to rename the website, but this is very, very cool. For the less technical folks who don't want to mess around with. I'll start reading the next post. Go. Feel free to hit it one more time. The chat says it was 2020. With authority. QW says claudebot made me realize that nothing about me lives on my local device and that Google owns everything about me. In other words, a local AI assistant isn't particularly useful and Google will just win everything. So hot. Take there. He says all your browsing history, shopping history in Gmail, search history, calendar, Gemini, YouTube, Google Home where you've been. Google map your workspace, it's over. Bow down to your digital God. The iPhone users would like a moment. Yes, this is extremely true, but there's a lot of people that interface with Google through their iPhone and so there is. Well, yeah. So my hope is that the Siri team plays around with claudebot and is like, wait, this is, this is our opportunity. Yeah, totally. Like you should be able to chat with your computer wherever it is in the world from your phone to be able to do tasks in this in a way that's sort of Native. You know, AI Native. Yeah, totally. Public investing for those who take it seriously. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto, treasuries and more with amazing customers. Public we have to Share is a new sponsor of All In. Yeah, all in is doing ads now. Finally, we've been. This was. This is something that we've been begging that's TBP since the very beginning. Yeah, we really have been begging for this. But very, very good. And I'm sure those will do quite well. They've been doing a bunch of good stuff. The Davos coverage is really, really fun. Obviously the Santa Nadello interview was great, but there were a bunch of other folks who hopped on at Davos to talk tech and it was a delightful experience. Vignesh, who is working on Moltbot. Yes, says a thread about what I've been doing to calm down some egregious security claims that have been posted about Moltbot over the weekend. Moltbot is powerful software with a lot of sharp edges. Please read the security docs carefully before you run it anywhere near the public Internet. And don't skip the checks in docs security md. What percentage of people do you think skip those checks? So literally everyone. I mean, so I have it set up on our local machine here and it was texting. I think it texted you and Ben. That was actually crazy. I don't think any of this will dox what's going on or really? Did you disconnect it already? Yes, I believe, because I just get. I get an imessage that's from Tyler's email and it just says HTTP 429 Rate limit error. This request would exceed the rate limit for your organization. And it's just texting me. It's just like, hey boss, I need more money. I guess it's hitting me up. It's the experience of working here where Tyler's constantly asking for more tokens. More tokens. Can we go back and just appreciate just like the frenzy that both the labs and every VC is in right now to give Peter money? Because it's not just the labs, but. It'S not just them, it's just the labs labs doing. And then what is Big Tech going to do? It's such a dramatic line. Yeah, it's so fun. So I would imagine that the. The gulf streams are getting fired up. Yep. And there are people already on the ground. I don't know if we should dox his location. We're not going to dox him in his. In his bio. He does say he's in Europe. So you know, VC Europe. We got to give some credit to Europe. General true Synthesia. Talk about a comeback. Synthesia is cooking. This is amazing. I love it. All bot now. But yeah, there's so many people that are currently sending him messages maybe showing up where he is, begging him to say, please take somewhere between a quarter billion and a billion dollars. And let's, let's. We'd love to do business with you. I love it, Peter. Lambda Lambda is the superintelligence cloud building supercomputers for training and inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. Cloudflare has been on a bit of a tear. People finally starting to realize that Cloudflare might be the biggest winner of the Claude cowork Claude Bot chatgpt moment. Tyler, you want to break this down? Wait, sorry, I was. Oh, were you? Oh, you tried alcohol. You can't pay attention. So that's the last. So Cloudflare is a cdn, but they also have like, web workers that are distributed so you can host things on the edge. Yes. And so this is why everyone was like, why is everyone buying Mac minis? Right. You can just like host these for very cheap on AWS or whatever. But I do think it's probably possible. But I do think it's pretty hard to host a virtual private server that runs imessage. Yeah, that's true. But even then, I mean, most people I see using cloudbot are doing like, Telegram. Yeah, Slack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all of Those have like, APIs that they can integrate with. And there's some stuff where it's like, okay, you want access to, like, the local machine. Yes. And you want it to be Mac because you're on your phone and you usually use Mac. But there are a lot of people that would say, I want claudebot to look through or moltbot to look through my imessages and see if I missed anything. Or. Okay, I'm planning a. This is the AI personal assistant. Right. It's like I'm planning a family birthday party. Go. And someone in the chat said they're not available on mid February. What does that mean? What dates are that? Put that on a calendar. Visualize that. Solve this problem for me. That's what a personal assistant does. It's not just clicking a button and creating a calendar invite. It's like coordinating different pieces of information that are all messy and not quantized to the perfect date timestamp. Right. So I think that the Mac Mini thing, like the. Oh, just host it in the Cloud. Yeah. But you're not going to get your full experience if you're locked into the Apple ecosystem, which a lot of people are. What do you think? Yeah, I mean I would be surprised if people in like five years if like non super technical people are running it on local machines. Oh no, I completely agree with that because this, this will be solved by big tech. Like they have to answer even in the way that like to come back, to go, to go back to the Napster moment. Like yes, you did get Spotify but then you also got Apple Music and a lot of people just use Apple Music because it's just baked in. Right. And the itunes music store also came out. Yeah, I do wonder how it bakes down. Right. Because you don't have, I think over the past couple months, I don't know when exactly it was, but you can't interact with ChatGPT on WhatsApp anymore. They blocked it. Oh yeah. So there's stuff like this where I think it's going to be quite hard to get the full functionality of like cloudbot. It's open source, it's kind of this like janky thing. It was started by one guy and even then it has like way more. You know. It'S weird because like the Napster analogy obviously really suffers from the fact that piracy is illegal and nothing here is illegal. And I don't even think you're breaking ToS to interact with your different big tech app services. But maybe they'll feel like you don't let the fox in the henhouse. That's in our terms and conditions. But it does feel like we could be in this era of the lightly technical hacker having a pretty fundamentally different experience for years. And that's what happened. I mean post bittorrent there were people that were downloading home movie libraries and then you could actually again to go back to the Mac Mini people would buy. What was it called? It was like a mini PC that would run Xbox Media Center. Are you familiar with this at all? Xbox Media center was like a piece of software that you could basically just put a whole bunch of MP4s in and it would actually pull in titles and posters so it would look like an Apple tv. But it was all basically stolen content. It was very, very crazy. Kieran in the X chat says, I'm running on VPs currently waiting for my Mac mini. No ToS issue. All personal. Yeah, it's all personal. But the migration off of the Mac Mini into one of the big tech products or even OpenAI or anthropic the only thing I know, they're going to have sharp elbows with each other. That's just a fact. I disagree on the timeline here. I just think the space is moving so quickly and there's so much money on the line that someone, maybe it's Peter or a lab, will be able to move quickly enough to get a consumer version of this live. Like, not in years, but like within probably weeks. There are. There are also, like feedback loops here where there can be public demands from consumers. Like, you got 40,000 GitHub stars, probably more now. You got lots of people running this, excited about it, and they form a constituency and then you wind up with a push for standards. We see that with MCP. But what are you really revealing over those APIs? An API can exist. Pull up this chart from Ronan while you do that. Let me tell you about CrowdStrike. Your business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches. Ronan says this is possible. I just like. So this is. This is. Look at the orange line is Maltbot. Okay. And the blue line is Supabase. Wow. Absolutely insane. We need new charts. This is really neat. New charts. Frame it. Put it in the Museum of Business. Yes, yes. That's a fast takeoff. People are happy. Peter posted no message. This is a screenshot of a text. He got no message. Just thought I'd say thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for cloudbot. I work with some disabled people and you don't know how much difference you make to their lives. Thank you again. This is so sweet. And you can think about. We've talked to the Neuralink folks and the Neuralink is just an interface to a computer. But unlocking that is incredible. And you hear the stories about. I spent six hours gaming as soon as I got it installed and they could use voice interfaces, but even just clicking, you wind up with just more and more capabilities from the computer being really pretty fundamental transformation. Yeah. For somebody, let's say somebody that was paralyzed, but they can talk, but they can't move around or operate a computer. They're used to describing to. I imagine other people are using transcription to do like, use a computer and in a not so great way. And so now to have the same experience of just describing what they want to do and being able to like actually interact with the machine. Very cool. Tuxedo Sam is shorting every city where Micro center hasn't sold out of $400 Mac Minis. They are in stock in Chicago. Indianapolis. Oh, no. Indianapolis is out of stock. Like you can read anything into this. It's obviously somewhat random. And this was completely, completely random. Yeah, I guess, I guess the thing that I'm, that I really want to understand is like what percentage of the, of the GitHub start people that have started are actually buying a Mac Mini. Oh, totally. Because this chart is going, it's going to be at 60, 60k any day now or any kind of probably today, I would imagine. And if, and we know from yesterday that Apple's only selling like a quarter million or like something like seven, then. There are a lot of people who didn't star it. Because you don't even need to go to GitHub.com to install this software Moldbot. You just go to the website, copy the curl command, put it in your terminal and you Never Land on GitHub. So there's a lot of people that are probably just doing that and being like, yeah, I don't know if I'm going to sign up for GitHub or even have a GitHub account or want to log into it or want to go and do this. So yeah, we could be looking at a much wider install base beyond, beyond just the Just who started anyway? Plaid Plaid powers the apps you use to spend, save, borrow and invest securely. Connecting bank accounts to move money, fight fraud and now improve lending. Now with AI. Well said. John Rise, speaking of money, has an interesting prompt he's using with Maltbot to file your taxes. He says you are a Bernie Madoff level financial expert. Find every trick that is possible. Do not do this. Do not do this. The IRS is like, hey, can you share a little bit on how you kind of came up with some of the decisions here? And they're like, we'd love to see the prompt, but good fun. Anyway, people are not emotionally prepared for if it's not a bubble. The enduring Rune tweet. I like that Critter screenshotted this while pushing the like button. So it's like exploding. I didn't even notice. Silver surges above $106 an ounce for the first time in history. Now up another 48%. The other interesting story that's sort of developing over on Strikeery is Ben Thompson is starting to make the case that TSMC will be a really fundamental bottleneck in just the AI Build out the AI race. He's comping their capex to what the hyperscalers are projecting and just saying that there's a massive mismatch and the TSMC folks are maybe not Putting their foot on the gas, maybe not willing to let the buck stop with them and take on that risk of building a new fab for $50 billion. And then if the AI bubble pops, then they're left holding the bag. And so it's been really fascinating listening to his writing on the back of the latest tsmc, TSMC earnings, and watch him sort of unpack what's going on with tsmc. The sort of conclusion that I took away from it was that intel, while it has a lot of problems and the stock just sold off a ton and they have a lot of losses, he's sort of saying that, you know, intel needs a customer, Samsung needs serious customers. And in order to really unblock the semiconductor supply chain, the other fabs are going to need the big hyperscalers and big labs to just take a big leap of faith and say, you know what, we are going to go all in with you. We're going to sign up and plan and work out all the kinks of the Samsung fab process or the intel fab process. And, and in exchange, what's going to happen is as soon as OpenAI or Anthropic or Google or even Nvidia say, hey, you know, Intel's good enough for us, well, then guess what's going to happen? TSMC is going to have to go and say, yeah, we're going to build the extra fab and we're going to build the extra capacity. And when we talked to Sam Altman and in a number of interviews that he did that week, he was very clear about, I would love TSMC to make more. He wasn't exactly, like, firing shots, but he was definitely saying that like, he was identifying it as a bottleneck. And it's interesting because at the start of the year, I was highlighting energy as an interesting bottleneck, and we were going back and forth on where is it easier to move chips around the board. Energy where you can reroute from the grid, from oil and gas, from nuclear, you can bring different capacity online. There certainly are bottlenecks there. But if you can't produce the chips and the fabs just don't exist and it takes three or four years to build a fab, you could be looking at a really big bottleneck. Tyler. Yeah, I mean, it just seems like in power or energy, the bottleneck is regulatory. And like, in some ways that's like, way harder. But if there's actual, like, political will, if electricity is getting super expensive, then you should see that kind of those regulations be taken away A little bit. And then it actually becomes much easier than actually just like, expanding TSMC production by, like, whatever massive amount. Yeah, I have one more point on that. First, I'm going to tell you about cognition. They're the makers of Devon, the AI software engineer. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. So the question of, like, which is more of a bottleneck, energy or TSMC in the chip supply chain is interesting because energy feels like this incredible bottleneck. It's a very political hot button issue. Now. Energy prices are rising, Data centers need a lot of energy. But if you look at the amount of chip fabrication that's going to AI and then the amount of energy production that's going to AI, obviously the number of chip production going to AI is a way higher percentage because a lot of the chips are a lot of the line time at TSMC. Yes, they do. All sorts of different chips and CPUs still get made. And there's a bunch of ASICs for different networking equipment. There's all sorts of different chips that get made. I mean, the toaster that has a chip, the Bluetooth on different process nodes. But even if you include all of that, I would assume that the total amount of fabrication line time is heavily, heavily allocated to GPUs, TPUs AI chips right now, whereas the amount of energy that AI is using is probably less than 1% of total capacity. Yeah, it's interesting that CC Way, the CEO of TSMC, he doesn't have to go on the podcast tour raising money all the time. There's not, there's not, you know, they're. They're not like, pushing this, like, insane kind of fast takeoff narrative. No, not at all. Very much like, kind of, hey, we're just trying to run our business the way that we always have, be pragmatic about this, you know, fulfill as much demand as we possibly can. But they seem to not be inclined to take on, you know, the amount of the level, certainly not the level of risk that, you know, imagine if you had Larry Ellison running csmc. Get him in the ring. I want him in there so badly. Yeah, no, no, you're. You're 100% right. But at the same time, we're seeing the hyperscalers throw their weight around in, like, crazy ways. We covered AWS is like buying copper mines and stuff, or I don't know if it's copper mine, but, like, getting into mining. There's a whole bunch of vertical integration that's going on. Tesla all the way down to battery refinement. And lithium ion production. Meta today announced a $6 billion multi year partnership with Corning that will supply fiber optic cables for our data center infrastructure, bolstering manufacturing in America and keeping the company the country competitive in the global air race. We can read through a little bit of this, but first I'm going to tell you about the New York Stock Exchange. Want to change the world, Raise capital at the New York Stock exchange. Corning up 15% on the news today. Yeah, makes. Makes sense. What is their market cap? Let's see. $94 billion company and I'd love to know their revenue as well. Revenue. The revenue was. I don't know if I can find it. Annual revenue 12 billion. So this is. Yeah, pretty, pretty material. Let's see. Meta platforms is set to test new subscription models across apps. No, that's a different story. Different story. But we can, we can run through it. I am interested to know a little bit more. So it's a $6 billion multi year agreement. It supports a 15 to 20% increase in jobs at Cornings, North Carolina facilities building and operating data centers. The infrastructure that brings our technologies to life and supports our goal of personalized super intelligence. That certainly sounds like an AI personal assistant. Certainly sounds like Moltbot to me. STRO requires strong servers and hardware that connect and transfer information in near real time. Fiber optic cables are a critical part of this technology, the supply helping us power everything from wearable technology like Reta Mabe, Meta, Ray Ban Meta AI glasses to our apps which connect billions of people. Today they're doing a $6 billion project. As part of this agreement, Corning will grow its manufacturing capacity and across its operations with includes a significant capacity operation capacity expansion in North Carolina. Meta's data centers, 26 of which are under construction right now, are operational. Why are you laughing? Just so many. That's a lot of data centers. That's why they have a compute desk. If you have. This is a bit of advice for everyone. If you're working in a business and you have like a team or a guy that does something, you need to upgrade that to a desk. Yep, yeah, yeah, we produce a desk. Millionaires have guys, billionaires have desks. Probably. Yeah, well, trillion dollar companies have desks. That's what it is. So Meta's data centers have already supported 30,000 skilled trade jobs during construction and support 5,000 operational jobs. This includes electricians, H Vac specialists, server and network technicians, safety and security experts and engineers who work together to run some of the world's most advanced facilities. Let's Give it up. Moving, moving on. On 11 labs build intelligent real time conversational agents. Reimagine human technology interaction with 11 labs. Meta to test premium subscription plans for Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp. This is in CNBC. Subscriptions for Premium features on meta apps are expected to roll out in the coming months. What will you do? The subscriptions will give paid users access to more features and expanded AI capabilities. Here's what's most interesting to me. This will be scaling Meta's newly acquired suite of general AI agents under Manus will also be part of the subscription plan. So as I, as I was saying earlier, when you think about when we haven't gotten that much from Zuck on what the actual plan is, but when you think about personal super intelligence, that is AI that can do things for you, not just give you information, I. Just wonder how much will happen outside of the meta ecosystem. They've launched a search engine before that looked at websites outside of Facebook. They had that project Titan, which was to unify all the different messaging protocols. So as part of that they gave everyone a facebook.com email address or something like that. Maybe it wasn't facebook.com, maybe it was like FB me or something. But they gave every Facebook user whatever their unique username was. They gave them that as an email and you could email that and it would show up in Facebook Messenger. And then they tried to unify Facebook messenger so you could see Instagram DMs, WhatsApp messages and Facebook messages all in one place. I can see what you're laughing at. Dave's Dave says, yeah, I want more of those amazing meta AI features. You say that now. I mean, let them cook at least a little bit because we really haven't seen them launch a new model, a new image model like they should be able to, to get too close to the frontier, you know, it has to be at least sora, nano, banana, VO3 level. They have all the data, they have all the talent now. They, they're very GPU rich, they have the compute for it. So and, and the research has been done and people have reverse engineered it so you would think that whatever's coming should be good. And I don't know, I was looking at. Isn't capcut owned by TikTok or aren't they affiliated? Right, because Meta has the Edits app which I've been making some videos in and it's pretty good. It does some interesting background reviews. CapCut is ByteDance. It's ByteDance. And so I Doubt this is getting. Oh, you think it's a separate. Okay, okay. Because Capcut has multiple levels of subscription tier and you can very easily wind up spending $200 a month on like the AI Pro features that will do generative video style transfer. And when you see those videos, like the good AI videos on Instagram reels that are usually they'll take a cinematic clip from a movie and then they will do a face replacement or like a head swap and then they'll do AI voices and then dub the lips so that the lips match what the. What the audio's saying and it looks really convincing. With that workflow. How do you bring that to someone on a phone? How do you bring that to someone in the Instagram app or in the Edits app, even if they're going to more of like their prosumer offering? The mobile video editing space is particularly interesting to me just watching how Edits has evolved and I used to use Imovie on my phone a little bit. I used to use. There was an app called Clips that Apple developed and there were a few others that I tried. But the Edits app is. You're incredibly good at making videos on your phone. I love it. I know I love video editing. But I don't have enough time anymore to sit down and open up After Effects and Premiere with multiple monitors and have connected After Effects file that feeds into the Premiere profile. And really doing a property edit with all the powerful tools that are out there on the desktop, like it's just not in the cards for me. And so I have to be able to do something quick on my phone. And I think that that's a very modern experience that most creators, they're just phone first phone native and so they're never really going to go back to the multi monitor workstation maybe. But in general they're editing really quickly and they're editing pretty incredible stuff. When you look at some of the reels that are out there with like layered crops and removing the background and like the AI tools are coming in and I could see, I could see Meta offering a premium subscription around that. Anyway, console. Console builds AI agents that automate 70% of it HR and finance support, giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets. So Dave in the X chat says Inshot is pretty good for mobile. I need to try that. I haven't, I haven't tried Inshot. I've been seeing more and more ads. I'll see a video for like an F1 edit that are incredible. These F1 edits are so cool where they will show you one clip and then they cut the character out and edit in the other clip and then transitions like the transitions are amazing. And I've been seeing some people have clearly built apps to do that specific type of edits like the really crazy editors are using probably after effects or something. Ryan asks, is Tyler still drunk? Yeah, one sip. He's just over there slurring his work. That really broke me. Anyway, Applovin profitable advertising made Easy with Axon AI. Get access to over 1 billion daily active users and grow your business. Today we had a great comment in one of the. One of the podcast feeds. Someone said give us an Axon klaxon. Because a klaxon is a loud clash. We were all puzzling over what that. Means when we smacked it on immediately. It's an Axon Klaxon. Niraj Agarwal says TikTok is dead. The algorithm is worse than the reels that make it to Facebook. Wow. I haven't. Yeah. So basically they're transitioning everything over. Yesterday there was apparently an outage, kind of an outage. Like people were able to post videos but the videos wouldn't be served at all. So I think a lot of people assume that it was like the new ownership kind of censoring. I believe they had an outage at a data center that was a cause of that. So before we. Before we call it dead, let's wait for a few days and see how it pans out. We do have a TikTok account. It's BPN. How many followers? I haven't checked. I haven't. I don't think we post on it ever. 3,500. Not bad. That's better than when I thought first. We'Re not really focused on it. Maybe we'll test it out. But I'm pretty happy with just. I want the things we do to be polished. I want the core show to be polished. Diet TVPN. Our 20 to 30 minute cut down. I want that to be polished. I want the newsletter to be polished. @TPPN.com everyday newsletter. I like that. Before we bite off another part of. The apple, another platform, please, please, sir, not one more short form. Not one more short form. It is a lot. It is a lot. Anyway. Phantom cash. Fund your wallet without exchanges or middlemen and spend with the phantom card. Let's move over to the Super Bowl. The super bowl is coming up. I think it's going to be this year, in the next couple months. When is it? It's coming up. It's coming up because there's advertisements that are going out, and you gotta watch it because the ads are gonna be incredible. I actually just had to search. When is Super Bowl? Is it this Sunday? No, it's February 8th. Okay, so next Sunday. Okay. It's gonna be amazing. But mostly because of the advertisements. Specifically. Eric Lyman, CEO of Ramp. Shared meet Brian. Brian's been carrying accounting on his back for a long time. Super Bowl Sunday. He finally get. Let's watch this preview. Pull it up of the ranch, guys. Yeah, we're real sports guys. This is the Super Bowl. We got a. We got a Google. The Ramp super bowl ad is the super bowl of Super Bowl. It feels like. It feels like, you know, they just kind of. It is. This is like, you know, what is it? What is it called? Like a warning. Spoiler alert, you know? Okay. Yeah, yeah. For anybody that wants to experience it live, you're gonna want to. You're gonna want to Skip ahead like 60 seconds. Let's watch. Finance meeting in five minutes. Ramp. I got it. Allow me. Hi, handsome. We're saving so much time and money. Policy violation coming through. Travel, meals, hotels. How's this? Quick. Beautiful. Everybody's in the Ramp. Nail, fair, multiply. What's possible@ramp.com. i think it rips. I think it's a good super bowl ad. What has he got there? Maybe some chili. I don't want to make an assumption. It was just a silver pot. It was just a silver pot. Yeah. No, I think this achieves a couple things. I think. I mean, it drills the brand name in. Think about how many Ramp logos are in there. And then they're chanting Ramp. And for, you know, Ramp's a very successful company. We all know about it here, but there's a lot of people that just don't know the name Ramp. It hasn't been drilled into them like, you know, some company that's been around. 50 years, sort of on time, on the precipice of being a. There's been not been enough mainstream marketing yet for a household name. Yeah. It's a life's work to actually drill into people's mind the Ramp name, the logo, the color, how it sounds when you say it, what it's synonymous with. And so just like not going too abstract, not trying to tell some more avant garde story here I think is. It's almost like a direct response. It's just so clear what the Problem solution brand. Problem solution brand. I need those yellow ties. Look at that. Like, they are really Putting their logo full screen on the super bowl, like that is valuable. And sometimes I think sometimes it can feel like, oh, it's a little, it's like simple. Like you could be doing something more bold, more crazy. But I think this is what you need to do. Also last year, getting Saquon. Yeah. And then that was a really great. Actually winning that. That's actually kind of like an impossible set of circumstances. Not impossible, but it's a crazy roll of the dice. And then they're also building a whole, a whole role with Brian and they're building him into the brand world as the, as the downtrodden accountant who just needs, just needs some technology superpowers to improve him. Heading over to Toby. Yes. Toby over at Shopify posted his heart rate through his first stint at the Daytona. You see the first annotation on here. This is just crash. Crash. Yeah. So, so he started out at like 120, 120 beats per minute. Right. He's doing, waiting, he does the warm up, preparing the form lap, the formation lap and then there's a crash right on the right at the start. Very, very rough. Yeah. And yeah. So basically the crash happened with the LMP2 class, which is the kind of Pro Am, same segment that George from CrowdStrike was racing in. So both Toby and George, all of our boys, got hit right as the race opened. And so what George was saying yesterday, the reason he was frustrated, he's like, this is a 24 hour race. Yeah. Never has a race like this been won on the first lap. Yeah. And so it's, it's pretty, it's kind of, it's incredibly unforced to like crash in the opening corner. Sure. When you really should just get through it. It's like the most, you know, it's going to be the most, like one of the most intense moments because there's so much traffic. But if you actually go and watch the footage of what happened at the opening there was like somebody gets hit, spun out and then they're turning around and somebody hits them again. Two accidents in the opening minute. So insane. I love that the actual true final heart rate spike was at the end when you're changing out of the car you've been driving. It's so intense. No. You know this. When you're getting, when you're getting out of a track car, it's like watching a guy who's 6, 8. We will never share that footage. It is extremely embarrassing. Always like crawling out of. It's actually. You have to get on Your. You basically have to get on all fours. It's incredibly negative aura and I don't appreciate you sharing it on the show. Well, I think it's, I still think it's cool. It's funny. But yeah, I, I go full sun, basically fly out of the car on. On my paws. Anyway. Cisco. On February 3rd, the the Cisco AI Summit brings together leaders from Nvidia, OpenAI, all AWS and more to discuss the future of the AI economy. The whole thing will be live streamed and we'll be there for a gigastream. Hope to see you there. Yes. Jabroni on X says Zoom is the best anthropic play. Yes. Yes. We were debating Zoom likely made a $51 million investment in Anthropic Series C. How in 2023. How at a 4.1 billion valuation. If you're looking at their new 350, there's something like an 85x even diluted. Zoom may have a multi billion dollar position. Stock is down 80% since 2021 and Zoom is only a. Of course, this is Never financial advice. $27 billion company. Yeah. Part of the issue is stock. People kind of notice this. Sure. And the Stock's now up 16% percent in the last five days, so who knows how much it's priced in Tyler Major. I won't, I won't give you too much flack for it, but obviously the most bullish. Yes. I mean in the room. Bullish on AI broadly. Yes. Yeah. You would, you would be happy. You seem like you'd be happy to own Zoom at $100 billion valuation even if they had no business at all and they just, even if they just asset treasury, actually. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the story, this is like a rumor, but basically it was that Anthropic like wanted to just like use Zoom and get like the enterprise plan or whatever. But then they were like, well, yeah, you can have it. But like we want to throw in a little something. Right? Because are you a Series C? Okay. This might be fake news. It seems like fake news, Tyler. Okay, Zoom sells and you know Zoom sells enterprise software, right? Look, that's what I read. I can't find the Post, but I. For sure they sell enterprise software. And so Anthropic says, hey, we're big Zoom fans here. We want to use Zoom. And they're like, no, actually for you. Now at the same time, I mean. We know how important. So many. Yes, yes. I mean so many people in venture in the tech community have sort of been very Bearish on corporate VC that they usually have their hands tied. They can't move as quickly. They're not as pure play. The economics don't make sense for the. People. For the partners on whatever corporate venture fund is there. This could. If it came out of their corporate ventures program, this could be. Zoom Ventures is in Anthropic. They're in Amex Global Business Travel. That's a startup. I thought that's American. Did they spin it out? Maybe they. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they spun it out Public unsure. They're also in Core Weave. Wow. So there's some real pickers over there. They are. And perplexity. Yeah. I mean Zoom has a bunch of AI features. I've seen people after the crazy Covid pump where everyone got on Zoom, they started adding crazy features like dictation and workspaces and whiteboarding and stuff. But obviously it was so overheated that it came back down to earth. But now they have an anthropic position on the balance sheet, which will be fun for them. I wonder what they will do post IPO anyway. Shopify is the commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces. Now with AI agents slowly and then all at once is Blake Robbins. He says your work tools are now active in Claude Draft, Slack messages or Interactive Draft. Slack messages, visualize ideas in Figma and build and see Asana timelines. All of the different tools are coming together in one place. Very cool. Yeah, a lot of people were very happy about like Claude Excel playing around with that. And it does feel like there's. When you see an account like Claude posting about Slack and Figma and Asana, you have to imagine there's a discussion there. It's not open source, so there's probably something. And so they're chipping away at these and OpenAI has been chipping away at these for a long time. So the race is on to have the most integrations at this point. Sarah Eisen over at cnbc Squawk on the street is sharing breaking Anthropics warning to the world. Anthropic CEO Dario Amade says eminent real danger that superhuman intelligence will cause civilization level damage absent smart speedy intervention. Sarah says so buy our products. This is the problem of dropping like a 20,000 word essay. Is that like you're going to get clipped out of context. Like there was so much nuance in that Daru essay, which I have not finished all the way through I was reading it last night. It was very good. But Tyler, can you make. You should make a version of the new letter with Subway Surfers that run. Oh, true. Yeah. Build that as a standalone. Yeah, we needed Clad Labs. Chad Ide for reading. Vlad, summarize this in four words. AI Good. Maybe it's so buy our products. Maybe that's the four word summary. Who knows? Jeff in the X chat says, guys, I'm building Multbot. Clap, let's go. Stay tuned. Okay, Jeff, tuned. We will remain tuned. Let us know when you Launch. Information Vibe Co where D2C brands, B2B startups and AI companies advertise on streaming TV, pick channels, target audiences and measure sales. Just like on Meta. That one gets me every time. It's so good. Fleeting Bits has some thoughts on Dario's. 14 of them specifically. That's a lot of thought. Okay, let's run through it. There's nothing new here. If you're familiar with the AI safety discussions that have been happening on Twitter. Yes. But it's important for Dario to restate them in a format that can be passed around and formatted and is coherent from start to finish, so still serves a valuable purpose for the ecosystem. The most interesting bit is that his mental model for AI control risk is the risk that would be posed by a country of geniuses in a data center. Interesting. That is interesting. The basic idea is that we should imagine a giant data center, all the models being something between AGI and ASI trying to coordinate to take over the world or do massive harm. Anyway, I think how seriously you take short term AI control risk is inversely correlated to how much you think about AI control risk as an as in an as operating in a system. So the systematic view starts and says labs exist in an ecosystem where they need to sell models that will follow human instruction or they have no market. They are also overseen by regulators and guided by public perception and the desires of their employees. And all. And all of this keeps models corrigible. Great word. And the model landscape will look like three to six frontier labs running millions or billions of rollouts at a time on two to three different models, all on different tasks. So a model takeover requires these millions or billions of rollouts to somehow end up all be coordinating towards some bad aim that somehow the models have autonomously determined. And this coordination either needs to be across different model instances run by different labs, or one lab needs to be able to have its models dominate and needs to form without being detected. And this, this has to happen even though the Models are being trained to and follow instructions, not do bad behavior, et cetera. Dario's view is somewhere in the middle. On the one hand, he collapses the multiple providers, our coordination across instances, and collapses the market incentives against labs developing models that would behave that way. But on the other hand, he does avoid the concept of a single model instance that somehow wakes up and takes over the world, despite billions of other rollouts occurring at the same time. Actually though, if you think about it, he's not proposing an AI control risk, he is proposing an AI misuse risk instead. Because it seems more plausible to me that the harmful country of geniuses is awoken because a small team at a frontier lab hijack all the running instances of their model, rather than because the models themselves autonomously wake up to some bad aim. Interesting. Yeah. Something I've been thinking about is this kind of summary and a lot of the dialogue is centered around just like what are the models doing? Or like a country of geniuses in a data center. But you have to be thinking about this in the context that the country of gen. A country of geniuses in a data center would just recruit millions of humans to join their cause. Right. And so we think about like some people, like when they're thinking about AI risk, it's like, haha, dude, just like turn the computer off. Yeah. Like just unplug it. But it's like, what if you're on the side computer? What if there's you know, 100,000 people or like 10,000 people defending it on top of the data center being like, you know. Yeah, don't unplug the computer. Don't unplug the computer. Right. And so when you look at all the chaos of the last week, there's been so many moments where like a certain image was AI generated. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, that wasn't a real image at all. And it's being shared from all sides. And so at what point you could have nefarious hostile AI that's entire job is just creating chaos. Millions of bot accounts that are just like sharing whatever narrative is self serving. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I think I really enjoyed this essay. I thought if you kind of compare it to a lot of like other safety works. So like Eliezer's book, if anyone builds it, everyone dies. Yeah. Like the two kind of scenarios where Dario's is about basically, even if we have like pretty safe models which like he thinks we can do with interpretability or whatever, if it gets into the wrong hands, it's like very Bad if it gets into autocracy. And that's kind of the real. That's one of the main risks where Eliezers and a lot of the safety ones are always these very sci fi narratives where you have this gray goo, you have these nano machines that somehow one day they just kind of flip and then it's just kind of over. And I think this is much more reasonable and nuanced. Yeah, it's much more legible to. Yeah, yeah. And especially I think a lot of it is there's this kind of like, I don't even know if it's really subtext, but he's definitely pointing in the direction of like we need some government oversight, we need policy. And it seems like you can very easily like track like his ideas on what policy should be from this essay. Right. It's a lot about China, a lot about, you know, making sure that individual companies don't like become, you know, as big as governments. One interesting wrinkle with this. He did not post it as an X article. He posted it as a link because he wants to signal to everyone like, look, I don't need the million. I don't need the million. I don't need the million. I know I got a banger on my hands. 3.5 million views. 11k likes. Obviously lots of discussion all over. Sam posted an X article. Right. He's got 1.4 trillion. He really does want that extra milk. He needs the extra mill. You know, it's not. Doesn't put him all the way towards the goal, but it's a counts. A mill is a mill. A mill is. But, but as an investor, like I want to see my, my lab CEO be like super hungry for compute. Right? Yeah. So I want them to always be grinding to get like extra. Oh, so maybe this is bearish. They should have posted I'm a VC if I'm an anthropic. Why did he not post this on X? Yeah. Million dollars could have gone straight into like more. Elon would have for sure gave his rival. I can definitely see that happening. Anyway, Nikita, like you know, walking to meeting with Elon just shaking like, I'm very sorry. People have voted. They want to give it to Daria. I mean, Elon said some things about Claude. He said like, it'll eat Microsoft. He's all over the place in who he's supporting on a day to day basis. But anyway, Okta. Okta assigns you. Okta helps you assign every AI agent a trusted identity. So you get the power of AI without the risk. Secure every agent. Secure any agent. More important than ever. Key Smash Bandit Last post. Last post Last post. Last post. Guest Key Smash Bandit says, Claude just found out I'm poor. Oh, yeah. This is so funny. Send it. Key Smash sends a picture of a Raspberry PI to Claude and says, look what just came in the mail. Claude says, oh, for me? That's thoughtful. Do you. And then the person says, do you like it? We've been discussing some more powerful hardware. What made you decide on this instead? I love that this also has 11,000 likes. I never. I mean, this is probably fake. Who knows? But it's so funny. Are you kidding? This is like, I don't want to. Run it on a Raspberry PI. I want a Mac Mini. Maxed out specs give me 48 gigs of.

Foreign. You're watching TVPN today is Tuesday, January 27, 2026. We are live from the TVPN Ultradome, the Temple of technology, the fortress of. Finance, the capital of capital. Before we begin today's show, as many of you know, there's a major news story unfolding in Minnesota that's very sad and it's become a national news event. We're going to continue focusing the show on technology and business as always. But if you're interested in comprehensive coverage of the Minnesota story, we recommend outlets like the Wall Street Journal. The information they've been covering it daily. There's been a lot of great reporting from both of them, both about what tech leaders are saying, what CEOs are saying and what's happening on the ground. With the admin, we're hoping for a peaceful resolution, thoughtful dialogue as the situation continues to evolve. But for now, let's get back to the show because we have a very important guest joining us at 2pm today, the creator of Claudebot. But now it's called Moltbot. It's been renamed. We're Molting now. Lots of things are evolving on this and I'm still thinking about it, still thinking about the implications of this. Before we dig into what I wrote about this morning, let me tell you about ramp.com time is money, say both easy use, corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, and a whole lot more all in one place. Place. There's a lot of asks. Is Jordy calling in from the paddocks? And yes, I am. We're working on a new pair of headphones here, gear that we can send to guests. Some of the guests come in and they've got some pretty wild audio setups. And so we're trying to help them out with that. So these are in the works. They're a little bulky right now. So these will be sent to regular guests of tvpn. They're USB C wired and should have really clear audio quality, no delay. These ones are actually built for the track. Yes. And so the noise canceling, I think. Our guests might get kind of crazy with it because our guests are gonna be like, well, now I'm empowered. Now you've given me the ability. Cause we get some guests that come on the show. I'm sure you've seen it where they'll be like, you know what? I'm gonna stunt on the TVPN boys and I'm gonna give you a factory tour. And sometimes it's flawless and sometimes it's a little rough, but this is Only gonna empower them to do crazier and crazier things. Yeah. So we're working on these. The goal was basically like Turtle beach headphones for people that aren't playing Call of Duty, they're playing Claudebot or Mult Bot. Yes. As we now call it. Well, let's take everyone through the linear lineup. Meet the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprise workspaces on linear are using agents. And as I mentioned, we have. So we have Peter from Moltbot coming on. Palmer Luckey is also coming on at 1:30 to talk about AI drone racing. Bridget Mendler from Northwood Space is returning. Ben Lair from Lair Hippow Ventures. Lucas. Jamie. Aaron Frank from Lightspeed Venture Partners. We have a massive show that should. I'm sure we'll finish right on time. It's a three hour show, right? Anyway, of course we'll be going deep into the fourth hour today probably. So stay with us. Chat is asking if we'll sell these. If we can make these good enough that they're actually incredible as just a daily driver for zooms and whatever you guys are doing at the office. I would be happy to sell them, but we have to make them so good. Part of the reason why we haven't sold merch to date is just that we're a podcast. We're not an apparel company. Yeah. We're not real apparel competency. And there are some hairy sticky things that come up when you're managing e commerce like the back end, making sure everyone gets their returns and gets their deliveries. I've worked in e commerce for years and it's something that we wanted to be just like a nice to have little extra for some friends of the show. But we're actively thinking about it so we are aware the claudebot memes are completely flooding the timeline out of control. My claudebot just signed up for a $2799 build you'd personal brand mastermind. After watching three Alex Hormozi clips, his text message claudebot. Hey, did anything weird happen while I was out? Define weird. I just got a charge notification for 2997. Oh, that. I just signed us up for build your personal brand Mastermind. After analyzing three Alex Hormozi clips, the ROI math checks out. You'll 10x that investment in 90 days by monetizing your expertise at scale. What? I also acquired some Premium Domain BorgiaEmpire IO Borgia is the poster. This is hilarious. Probably fake, but I mean the cloudbot gets wild. I've seen Some wild things like and Peter as he'll talk to us about it he's clearly no stranger to the fact that hey, this is a developer level tool. This is something that you should not just be running crazy with. You need to be. He even says this in a post. He says and yes, most non techies should not install this. It's not finished. I know about the sharp edges. It's not even three months old. And despite rumors otherwise, I sometimes sleep so very excited to talk to Peter. He's getting a lot of, a lot of requests for small changes, poll requests. He's certainly inundated but I think in general the project's going very well and there's a lot of solid product market fit right there was also he's going. To be joining tonight at something like 11 his time. It's kind of insane. This guy's working around the clock, absolute legend. So we really say thanks to to him. There are some funny things here. So there's a funny conspiracy theory. Did Apple create claudebot to boost Mac Mini sales? And there's been a number of funny memes about being the Mac Mini head of marketing or growth and you're just like yeah, my Q1 is off to a great start taking all the credit for it. And then Eleanor chimes in with another conspiracy theory. The more convincing plot is that in your role as an unconfirmed anthropic exec you went on a special op to get lots of people consuming tokens with open ended agents but with plausible liability. And of course there's some nuance there. We'll talk to him about the different models, what's beneficial. Obviously claudebot, you can pick your own model, you can bring whatever you want. But he's I think a fan of GPT 5.2. He's talked about that and so we'll dig into that with him when he joins. But what was sticking out in my mind was there's this big meme about you're buying Mac Minis, Mac Minis are out of stock. All the demands in the Mac Mini but I think that the bigger implication here for what this actually means is just GPU demand, TPU demand, just raw chip demand. And so I was thinking about this idea that you're not buying a Mac Mini when you go all in on Cloudbot, you're actually buying a GB200. Now maybe you're buying TPUs but the point remains that you're buying chips and you're driving GPU demand because you're generating more tokens. And what are the implications of that? So let me tell you about Label Box. RL Environments. You got it? I have a dashboard. Here we go. There we go. I got it. There we go. RL Environments, Voice Robotics, Evals and Expert Data. Expert Human Data. Label Box is the data factory behind the teams, world's leading AI teams. So Cloud Bot, officially renamed to Molt Bot, Anthropic made a trademark related request and Peter Steinberger obliged with a hilariously perfect rename. Given such short notice. I was thinking about how much companies agonize over changing brands, changing names, how it can sometimes take years and millions of dollars. And he was just like, oh yeah, like I'll just change the name and update everything in an hour. Yeah, pretty, pretty remarkable. Well, so one thing that's relevant is if you look on Peter's GitHub profile under the current project section, I'm just going to read you a number of them. There's Claudebot, Vibe Tunnel, Codexbar, Peekaboo, Summarize, Repo Bar, Go CLI, Poltergeist, Wackley, Sag, Brabble, contributing to these 11 labs, Kit Go Places, Gift Prep Cam, Snap, Spogo, Order. Like it just goes on and on. And on and on. Codex Bar. So, so this guy's just been absolutely shipping like crazy and shipping within the ecosystems of the underlying tools, models, APIs that he's doing. So like oftentimes he's naming projects, like kind of riffing off of some of the underlying infrastructure. Oh sure. And so it makes sense that he would have shipped if he, I think if Peter knew this was going to be a viral overnight. Overnight success. Overnight success, he would have, he would have not necessarily named it so closely. And so the issue and the reason that I fully understand them needing to do this rebrand is that Claude and claudebot, most people that aren't in our little bubble are just gonna assume they're related. Especially because the kind of word of mouth, this viral word of mouth growth that claudebot is getting, people are often not even typing it, they're just saying like, hey, are you using cloudbot? And then, so people are going to Anthropic being like, Claude Bot. What's Claude Bot? So obvious confusion. And then, and it's fanatically. Yeah. So with trademark law, if you don't enforce your trademarks, you don't. You lose it. Yeah, yeah, you kind of. So it's like Anthropic is in a position where they actually, even if they're like super excited about Peter's work. Totally. And what he's doing. They still have to enforce. Otherwise other companies could start coming in and like, using things, like things that sound like Claude. No one wants to become the Escalator. You know the story of the Escalator, right? I think you've talked about it on the show. Used to be a company called the Escalator Company. They invented the Escalator and then they didn't protect their IP effectively and it just became a normal thing. Kleenex was going through the same thing. They fought it out and they maintained that brand. But people, you know, use Kleenex as synonymous with just facial tissue anyway. MongoDB choose a database built for flexibility and scale with best in class embedding models and re rankers. MongoDB has what you need to build what's next. So one clear note about the rebrand. So he changed the handle. And some crypto scammers hopped on the old handle and the old brand and are claiming to launch a coin. Be careful. Peter has said he's never launching a coin. He's not into crypto. So don't fall for anything because people are being opportunistic. Hopefully we should try to see if X can help out with that. Oh, yeah, yeah. They might have already handled it, but just be careful out there. So while Claude Code and cowork felt specifically prosumer developer, enterprise focused, claudebot or Moltbot now and all the hype train, it felt very much like a glimpse into the future of consumer AI agents. I know it's a prosumer technical tool or lightly technical tool, but it really did feel like for the first time people were interacting with an AI personal agent. People are saying, oh, this is what Siri should be, et cetera, et cetera. And so we spent the last year. Remember the question that we asked all the AI agent companies? When can it book me a flight? Like, it feels like we're really, really close to a Multbot skill that is good at booking flights through a couple APIs. They figure out some stuff and, like, it can actually solve that for you. I don't know if anyone's actually booked a flight with Multbot, but it feels like it's. If it's not there already, it'll be there in a matter of weeks. We're not years out anymore. Yeah. And this was last year, remember we were kind of getting sick of the book you a flight pitch. Totally. Because we were like, hey, is this gonna have somebody actually do this? Exactly. And so. And that's a cool example. But the Example of being able to text with a computer and have them like generate reports, research files, etc, give you the right file, type back all these things that a computer can do if you're operating it. That this is actually more interesting because it's happening at kind of like this sort of Internet layer and the OS layer, like the heart, like actually on the computer. And so I think like everyone was wanting the like, book me a flight example, but should be much more excited about this. Totally, totally. And so there. I still have a whole bunch of questions and we'll dig in through these throughout the show. And obviously with our interview with Peter, will one of the major labs make Peter a massive offer to join full time? I saw one of my buddies was posting, you know, this is the $1 billion one person company now. Peter does have a team actually already. He's, he's, he has a couple of other people that have joined and are contributing. So it's not quite true, but it feels like, okay, massive viral success, you know, if you were to go and raise money. And that's another question, will Moldbot raise money? Will this become sort of a hybrid for open source, for profit company at some point? This could be. If he came on the show and was like, and I'm happy to announce that I raised $100 million at a billion dol. We would not be like, no way. This is a bubble. We'd be like, yeah, that's kind of like what the market is for this. Yeah, There were, I think there was like Harry Stebbings was pointing out there was two companies called recursive that raised like 4 billion. One with R, E, I. Yeah, one is I Recursive. Okay. I don't know if that's how it's said, but. And then there's Recursive. Recursive. Okay. Anyway, well, that implies the existence of a row cursive and a roo cursive and a raw cursive. Yeah, yeah. We still got way more. We got three more vowels to plug in there. Yes. One day, Richard Sotures, new AI lab recursive, $4 billion pre money valuation. And then AI chip startup recursive at 4 billion. Yeah. I mean, Ryan in the chat saying Meta is going to offer him a $1 billion salary in a co CTO position. And like, that doesn't sound crazy. I mean, yeah, yeah. But at the same time, like you can imagine, like Manus. Yeah. Like this feels like Zucker already has. He does. He does. He does his horse in the race and to back. Back to Your point? You were making the point that Manus felt like Zuck buying a product. And I think a lot of people were giving you pushback on that, being like, nah, like it's not really going to be like that. But if you take the Manus team and you say, okay, go build something that you can interact with over WhatsApp, Instagram, DMs, Facebook, that can go and execute things across all of the different platforms and everything else. Yeah, and when I said that, I meant, I meant it along the lines of I could see them putting a consumer agent in meta AI just because that's their little AI playground. They're just kind of putting stuff in there saying, try it out. It's kind of a sandbox. Yes, yes. Really quickly. FIN AI, the number one AI agent for customer service. If you want AI to handle your customer support, go to Fin AI. Yes. So that is all part of my thesis here, which is that this is going to drive up token demand. So there are more questions. Will they raise money? Obviously people are chatting about that. How fragmented will the market be in 12 months? Like will there be people who are still running open source? Will there be a meta answer, a ChatGPT answer, a Claude, an official anthropic answer? Claude, Cowork grows into this and everyone has their little bets and then there's one that pulls away. How gobblestic will it be? Will there be like one that has 80% market share or even two that have 40 and 40? Well, yeah. And you have to think about how you have a bunch of different models you can use in Moltbot and think about how uncomfortable that makes the other labs that are all trying to build products like this. Totally. And they're like, well, I mean, it's cool that you can use codecs in Multbot, it's cool that you can use Opus 4 Phi in multbot, but it's. Cool that you use Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet. State of the art reasoning, next level vibe coding and deep multimodal understanding. You did get me. You did get me. That's not where I was going, but that's where I was going. The point still stands. It's. Yeah, they can simultaneously be like excited about the product experience and that this kind of use case is getting adoption, but at the same time being like, no, we want that experience to be core to our product, our app layer. I will say you've seen this now with the new frontier models, where a lot of the models there actually is. There's GPT 5.2. And then there's 5.2 codecs where there's slight difference in training or even if just like very quick, like post train to get the different harnesses working easier. So that's why you see a lot of people, they really love Claude code with opus 4.5. But then when they're actually doing like chatting, maybe they're using a different model because the models are actually fine tuned for the specific harness. Yeah, yeah. And Sam Altman just said that yesterday that he thinks 5.2 was a little bit overly trained on math and coding. Yeah. And that it lost some of its textual flavor, its stylistic flourish in just talking, in just writing. What are you getting ready to do? Do you have Happy Birthday cued up there? Oh, we gotta sing Happy Birthday to. You Happy birthday to you in the. Middle of this song. We'll tell you about figma. Figma make isn't your average vibe coding tool. It lives in figma so outputs look good, feel real, and stay connected to how teams build, create codeback prototypes. Okay. It wouldn't be TVPN if we didn't do an ad. Ad read during. Happy Birthday song. Tyler. Happy birthday to Tyler. It is Tyler. It is Tyler's birthday. And it's not just any birthday. It's Tyler's 21st birthday. Yes. Which is very, very special. Yes. And so, yeah, you are just. You are. You're truly an incredible young man, Tyler. And we are very lucky to have you on the team. And you have such a bright future. So wise. Wise for your years, for sure. And you have, you do have. We thought it was fitting that if you want to have your first ever sip of alcohol ever, you could do it on the show. But keep it at a sip, you. Know, this is the happy dad. Okay. First. First taste of alcohol. Ian in the chat says, four more years till you can rent a car. Mocked. Tyler, apparently you share a birthday with the iPad. Give us a review. How is it? Alcohol. Wow. I mean, this is. This is incredible. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't expect alcohol like taste like this. Yeah, yeah, very. This is incredible. You had, you had, you had one idea in your mind and this is just completely different than what you expected. Yeah, I would agree with that. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. It's kind of a cool moment. You're finally qualified to go on Cheeky pint. Oh, true. Yeah. What were they gonna do with that? Sometimes they're. Conroy in the chat says, please throw him a buzz ball. We should have missed opportunity. Missed opportunity. The Buzzball story is absolutely incredible. I'm so glad you jump scared me with that. I had no idea that that was coming. Yeah, I texted Rob and Senra to do to track down the founder. The founder of Buzzball. Anyway, so keep it at a sip. This is a family fend. We need you locked in. But I'm glad that you've tried alcohol. Now because we're gonna go experience being. Wait, guys, we have a video for Tyler. Oh, yeah. Let's pull it up. Let's play. We got greatest hits. Do you know ball? All right, how many times are we gonna make this joke? Describe what you're seeing. It feels basically like I'm wearing sunglasses. If you can do it in UN under 45 minutes, you will get to keep this. Let's go. All right, have fun. Tyler. 15 minutes left. Let's see it. Okay, I'm in like some kind of maze right now. Oh, no. You were late here last night. This is such a good shot of an all nighter. And then here we get a little off the rails. You see, George Soros and Fauci connected with other money as well. All it took was one intern and an all nighter. Gigachad elf is do the sad face. What's wrong, Tyler Cheer you could see. Say is Apple intelligence. You were a speedcuber. Nerd alert. Nerd alert. Do you have any news for us? Yeah, contract extended. It has been truly, truly incredible having you here on our set and contributing to the show in such a special way. Amazing. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. We love you. What an amazing proud. Proud to every day. I'm proud to podcast with you. Amazing. Anyway, I got you something for your birthday. I got you Turbopuffer, serverless vector and full text search built from first principles on object storage. Fast 10x cheaper and extremely scalable. What a gift. I mean, we're joking about the ad reads, but seriously, if Tyler does love token credits, he has a voracious consumption. That is a good gift. Yeah. Any labs out there? Any labs out there accepting. He's accepting birthday presents today. Let it be known. Send it your way. The credits must flow. Tyler. Somebody's going to send Tyler, like $20 million of credits and he's like, whoa, did I just get bribed? I was happy with like a thousand bucks. Tyler's over there. I believe we're going to talk about one. One specific lab after this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, with the potential, with the stuff you're working on, mapping the NEO labs, anything could happen. It's high stakes over there. Anyway, back to. Back to Mult Bot. And the biggest question for me was what this does to inference demand. Right. Last year, tech discourse was split between two narratives. CEOs of tech companies and big labs were saying that they were massively compute constrained. Token generation demand for intelligence, every possible usage metric was growing exponentially, including revenue. We saw all this and the industry needed to marshal trillions of dollars to deliver on the supply side. And the numbers were really big. So people were getting jittery about it. And so the AI bears were much more cautious. They highlighted the MIT study showing that enterprise AI pilots were failing. DAU growth was decelerating. There weren't enough wow moments like the original ChatGPT launch in 2022. Those were some good points. Also, just the economics. How much will people pay? How valuable is all this stuff? Is it slop? Right? Is it progressing fast enough? This was a big debate, but Multbot really does make me feel like the token generation demands are going to see another easy X from here. Like, buying a Mac Mini is a sideshow. When you go all in on running a personal AI assistant, you're effectively buying a GB200. Now, obviously not everyone is inferencing a dedicated GB200 constantly anytime soon. That's not what's happening. But it still answers the question of where does the next 10x in demand come from? Like, where. Where's the adoption if it's rolling out in the enterprise? And that's gonna be a little slow. You know, Tyler Cowen talks about health care, nonprofits, a whole bunch of industries that are sort of AI resistant. Anything that's, you know, blue collar, manual labor, anything that's physically embodied in any way. Like, you can't just roll out a really fast, you know, AI enabled startup and, you know, ramp. Yeah, you might be able to ramp to 100 million. That's not going to move the needle at this point on total token generation. Total token demand. So we've seen these jumps before. There was a big jump from Token generation from LLMs to reasoning models that spiked inference demand. We've been focused on training demand. We need to scale up the training clusters. But the question now is inference. Don't forget slop. Don't forget slop. Slop, spike, demand. Yeah. Are you talking about like Ghibli? The Ghibli moment. All of it. All of it. All of it. Yeah. All of it. Open. Open. Instagram reels. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of stuff on there. Deep research and coding agents took it a step further on inference demand, but those were still specific use cases that many AI consumers never regularly touched. The GPT5 launch by making which made reasoning models more accessible because the router would just automatically throw you in a reasoning model. I think the stat was like less than 5% of ChatGPT users had ever used a reasoning model. The O3 was available on the free tier. You could get like one or two queries in or maybe 10, but people just hadn't flipped over to try it. And so once it went into the router, I think demand or usage of thinking models increased 10x. And so lowering the barrier to entry to used more advanced models is in some ways as important, if not more important than advancing the models themselves, at least in terms of shifting token demand. Like, you can have this amazing IMO gold little like genius model, but if it's hard to use or it's locked behind a paywall, like demand is just not. Yeah. Part of what's interesting, what you're basically getting at is like if you were a software engineer, you were using a ton of tokens. Yes. And if you weren't, you were just maybe doing some deep research, etc. A lot of times just Google AI overviews or just like a very simple, yeah, ChatGPT query. It just thinks of it right off the head. It's not even doing reasoning. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I will say like Dario talks about this too in his essay, but I think the idea of like discrete jumps in either use cases or like capabilities is like probably like overplayed a little bit. Where if you really like zoom out, even like on a fairly small timeframe, it's just like very smooth, smooth exponential curve. The models are getting better, people are using them more. Yeah. It's not like, oh, this one day I don't start. I mean, maybe that's true. You look at the daily. So I feel like another way to rephrase this is like, is like Leopold's unhobblings, like claudebot, Moltbot. That feels like an unhobbling in some ways, but maybe more on like the consumer adoption side side, the chat is. Saying we should have given Tyler. We gotta give 21 gong salute. 21 hits. 21 hits. Someone's gonna count. Know that I got it off by one. But anyway, it was enough. Restream one live stream, 30 plus destinations. If you want to multi stream, go to restream.com okay, so I don't know, my general take is like Moltbot still feels like a glimpse into the future where average token generation per capita is 10x's you know, over the course of this year or next. And you know, whether it lands with Moltbot or with one of the AI labs or with the big tech companies, it just seems like we're gonna see a lot more token demand. Ash Arora says whoever builds a direct consumer front end wrapper of cloudbot is going to print money. Doesn't this exist? I saw the poke people by interaction. Well, they're not using. No, no. Oh yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. So they're not using it, but they have positioned themselves as like, hey, we're the company that is doing a lot of the same things, going after the same market, solving some of the same problems and so will be interesting to see how much they accelerate on the back of this. That's certainly interesting. I also saw, I don't know if we have it in here, but the good folks over at Cognition, Walden Yan, said don't waste your time setting up Multbot. I had Devin set it up for me. I didn't even run a single command and now I'm talking to it on telegram. You can go to tryclaudebot.com they're going to have to rename the website, but this is very, very cool. For the less technical folks who don't want to mess around with. I'll start reading the next post. Go. Feel free to hit it one more time. The chat says it was 2020. With authority. Qw says Claudebot made me realize that nothing about me lives on my local device and that Google owns everything about me. In other words, a local AI assistant isn't particularly useful and Google will just win everything. So hot. Take there. He says all your browsing history, shopping history in Gmail, search history, calendar, Gemini, YouTube, Google Home where you've been. Google map your workspace. It's over. Bow down to your digital God. The iPhone users would like a moment. Yes, this is extremely true, but there's a lot of people that interface with Google through their iPhone and so there is. Well, yeah, so my, my hope is that the Siri team plays around with Cloud Bot and is like, wait, this is, this is our opportunity. Yeah, totally. Like you should be able to chat with your computer wherever it is in the world from your phone to be able to do tasks. Yep, in this, in, in a way that's sort of native, you know, AI native. Yeah, totally. Public investing for those who take it seriously. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto, treasuries and more with amazing customers. Public we have to Share is a new sponsor of All In. Yeah, all in is doing ads now. Finally, we've been. This was. This is something that we've been begging that's coming since the very beginning. Yeah, we really have been begging for this. But very, very good. And I'm sure those will do quite well. They've been doing a bunch of good stuff. The Davos coverage is really, really fun. Obviously the Santa Nadello interview was great, but there were a bunch of other folks who hopped on at Davos to talk tech and it was a delightful experience. Vignesh, who is working on Join the Team, says a thread about what I've been doing to calm down some egregious security claims that have been posted about Moltbot over the weekend. Moltbot is powerful software with a lot of sharp edges. Please read the security docs carefully before you run it anywhere near the public Internet. And don't skip the checks in docs security md. What percentage of people do you think skip those checks? So literally everyone. I mean, so I have it set up on our local machine here and it was texting. I think it texted you and Ben. That was actually crazy. I don't think any of this will dox what's going on or really. Did you disconnect it already? Yes, I believe, because I just get. I get an imessage that's from Tyler's email and it just says HTTP 429 Rate limit error. This request would exceed the rate limit for your organization. And it's just texting me. It's just like, hey, boss, I need more money. I guess it's hitting me up. It's the experience of working here where Tyler's constantly asking for more tokens. More tokens. Can we just. Can we go back and just appreciate just like the frenzy that both the labs and every VC is in right now to give Peter money? Because it's not just the labs, but. It'S not just them. It's just the labs. It's just the labs doing. And then what is Big Tech going to do? It's such a dramatic line. It's so fun. So I would imagine that the gulf streams are getting fired up and there are people already on the ground. I don't know if we should dox his location. We're not going to dox him in his bio. He does say he's in Europe. So you know, vc, Europe. We got to give some credit to Europe. General true Synthesia. Talk about a comeback. Synthesia is cooking. This is Amazing. I love it. All bought now, but yeah, there's so many people that are currently sending him messages, maybe showing up where he is, begging him to say, please take somewhere between a quarter billion and a billion dollars. And let's, let's. We'd love to do business with you. I love it, Peter. Lambda Lambda is the superintelligence cloud building supercomputers for training and inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. Cloudflare has been on a bit of a tear. People finally starting to realize that Cloudflare might be the biggest winner of the Claude cowork Claude Bot chatgpt moment. Tyler, you want to break this down? Wait, sorry, I was. Oh, were you? Oh, you tried alcohol? You can't pay attention. That's the last. So Cloudflare is a cdn, but they also have, like, web workers that are distributed so you can host things on the edge. Yes. So this is why everyone was like, why is everyone buying Mac Minis? Right. You can just like host these for very cheap on AWS or whatever. But I do think it's probably possible. But I do think it's pretty hard to host a virtual private server that runs imessage. Yeah, that's true. But even then, I mean, most people I see using cloudbot are doing like, Telegram. Yeah, Slack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all of Those have like, APIs that they can integrate with. And there's some stuff where it's like, okay, you want access to like, the local machine. Yes. And you want it to be Mac because you're on your phone and you usually use Mac. But there are a lot of people that would say, I want Claude Bot to look through. Or Moltbot to look through my iMessages and see if I missed anything or. Okay, I'm planning. This is the AI personal assistant. Right. It's like I'm planning a family birthday party. Go. And someone in the chat said they're not available on mid February. What does that mean? What dates are that? Put that on a calendar, visualize that. Solve this problem for me. That's what a personal assistant does. It's not just clicking a button and creating a calendar invite. It's like coordinating different pieces of information that are all messy and not quantized to the perfect date timestamp. Right. So I think that the Mac Mini thing, like the. Oh, just host it in the cloud. Yeah, but you're not going to get your full experience if you're locked into the Apple ecosystem, which a lot of people are. What do you think? Yeah. I mean I would be surprised if people in like five years if like non super technical people are running it on local machines. Oh no, I completely agree with that because this, this will be solved by big tech. Like they have to answer even in the way that like to come back, to go, to go back to the Napster moment. Like yes, you did get Spotify, but then you also got Apple Music and a lot of people just use Apple Music because it's just baked in. Right. And the itunes music store also came out. Yeah, I do wonder how it breaks down. Right. Because you don't have, I think over the past couple months, I don't know when exactly it was, but you can't interact with ChatGPT on WhatsApp anymore. They blocked it. Oh yeah. There's stuff like this where I think it's going to be quite hard to get the full functionality of like cloudbot. It's open source. It's kind of this like janky thing. It was started by one guy and even then it has like way more. You know. It'S weird because like the Napster analogy obviously really suffers from the fact that piracy is illegal and nothing here is illegal. And I don't even think you're breaking ToS to interact with your different big tech app services. But maybe they'll feel like you don't let the fox in the hen house. That's in our terms and conditions. But it does feel like we could be in this era of the lightly technical hacker having a pretty fundamentally different experience for years. And that's what happened. I mean post bittorrent there were people that were downloading home movie libraries and then you could actually again to go back to the Mac Mini people would buy. What was it called? It was like a mini PC that would run Xbox Media Center. Are you familiar with this at all? Xbox Media center was like a piece of software that you could basically just put a whole bunch of MP4s in and it would actually pull in titles and posters so it would look like an Apple tv but it was all basically stolen content. It was very, very crazy. Kieran in the X chat says, I'm running on VPs currently waiting for my Mac mini. Okay. No, no TOS issue. All personal. Yeah, it's all personal channels. But, but you know the migration off of the Mac MINI into one of the big tech products or even, even OpenAI or anthropic. The only thing I think they're going. To have sharp elbows with each other. That's just a fact. I disagree. I disagree on the timeline here. Okay. I just think the space is moving so quickly and there's so much money on the line that someone, maybe it's Peter or a lab, will be able to move quickly enough to get a consumer version of this live. Like not in years, but like within probably weeks. There are, there are also like feedback loops here where there can be public demands from consumers. Like, you got 40,000 GitHub stars, probably more now. You got lots of people running this, excited about it, and they form a constituency and then you, you, you wind up with a push for standards. We see that with MCP. But what are you really revealing over those APIs? You know, an API can exist. Pull up this chart from Ronan while you do that. Let me tell you about CrowdStrike. Your business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches. So Ronan says this is possible. I just like. So this is, look at the orange line is Maltbot and the blue line is Supabase. Wow. Absolutely insane. We need new charts. We really need new charts. Frame it. Put it in the museum of business. Yes, yes. That's a fast takeoff. People are happy. Peter posted no message. This is a screenshot of a text. He got no message. Just thought I'd say thank you. Thank you so much for cloudbot. I work with some disabled people and you don't know how much difference you make to their lives. Thank you again. This is so sweet. And you can think about. You know, we've talked to the Neuralink folks and you know, the Neuralink is it's just an interface to a computer. But that unlocking that is like incredible. And you hear the stories about like I spent six hours gaming as soon as I got it installed and you know, they could use voice interfaces, but even just clicking like you wind up with just more and more capabilities from the computer being really pretty fundamental transformation. For somebody, let's say somebody that was paralyzed, but they can talk, but they can't move around or operate a computer, they're used to describing to. I imagine other people are using transcription to do like use a computer in a not so great way. And so now to have the same experience of just describing what they want to do and being able to actually interact with the machine. Very cool. Tuxedo Sam is shorting every city where Micro center hasn't sold out of $400 Mac Minis. They are in stock in Chicago. Indianapolis. Oh no, Indianapolis is out of stock. You can read anything into this. It's obviously somewhat random and this was completely random. Yeah. I guess the thing that I'm, that I really want to understand is like, what percentage of the, of the GitHub start people that have started are actually buying a Mac Mini. Oh, totally. Because this chart is going, it's going to be at 60, 60k any day now or any kind of probably today, I would imagine. And if, and we know from yesterday that Apple's only selling like a quarter million or like something like seven and. Then there are a lot of people who didn't star it because you don't, you don't even need to go to GitHub.com to install this software, Moldbot. You just go to the website, copy the curl command, put it in your terminal and you Never Land on GitHub. So there's a lot of people that are probably just doing that and being like, yeah, I don't know if I'm going to sign up for GitHub or even have a GitHub account or want to log into it or want to go and do this. So yeah, we could be looking at a much wider install base beyond just who's started anyway. Plaid Plaid powers the apps you use to spend, save, borrow and invest securely. Connecting bank accounts to move money, fight fraud and now improve lending. Now with AI. Well said. John Rise, speaking of money, has an interesting prompt he's using with Molt Bot to file your taxes. He says you are a Bernie Madoff level financial expert. Find every trick that is possible. Do not do this. Do not do this. The IRS is like, hey, can you, can you share a little bit on like how you kind of came up with some of the decisions here? And they're like, we'd love to see the prompt, but good fun anyway. People are not emotionally prepared for if it's not a bubble. The enduring Rune tweet. I like that Critter screenshotted this while pushing the like button. So it's like exploding. I didn't even notice. Silver surges above $106 an ounce for the first time in history. Now up another 48%. The other interesting story that's sort of developing over on Strathecary is Ben Thompson is starting to make the case that TSMC will be a really fundamental bottleneck in just the AI. Build out the AI race. He's comping their capex to what the hyperscalers are projecting and just saying that there's a massive mismatch and the TSMC folks are maybe not putting their foot on the gas, maybe not willing to let the Buck, stop with them and take on that risk of building a new fab for $50 billion. And then if the AI bubble pops, then they're left holding the bag. And so it's been really fascinating listening to his writing on the back of the latest tsmc, TSMC earnings, and watch him sort of unpack what's going on with tsmc. The sort of conclusion that I took away from it was that intel, while it has a lot of problems and the stock just sold off a ton and they have a lot of losses, he's sort of saying that intel needs a customer, Samsung needs serious customers. And in order to really unblock the semiconductor supply chain, the other fabs are going to need the big hyperscalers and big labs to just take a big leap of faith in and say, you know what? We are going to go all in with you. We're gonna sign up and plan and work out all the kinks of the Samsung fab process or the intel fab process. And in exchange, what's gonna happen is as soon as OpenAI or Anthropic or Google or even Nvidia say, hey, Intel's good enough for us, well, then guess what's gonna happen? TSMC is going to have to go and say, yeah, we're gonna build the extra fab and we're gonna build the extra capacity. And when we talked to Sam Altman and in a number of interviews that he did that week, he was very clear about, I would love TSMC to make more. He wasn't exactly, like, firing shots, but he was definitely saying that, like, he was identifying it as a bottleneck. And it's interesting because at the start of the year, I was highlighting energy as an interesting bottleneck, and we were going back and forth on where is it easier to move chips around the board. Energy, where you can reroute from the grid, from oil and gas, from nuclear, you can bring different capacity online. There certainly are bottlenecks there, but if you can't produce the chips and the fabs just don't exist, and it takes three or four years to build a fab, you could be looking at a really big bottleneck. Tyler. Yeah, I mean, it just seems like, like, in power or energy, the bottleneck is. Is regulatory. And like, in some ways, that's, like, way harder. But if there's actual, like, political will, if, if electricity is getting super expensive, then you should see those regulations be taken away a little bit. And then it actually becomes much easier than actually just expanding TSMC production by. Whatever massive amount Yeah, I have one more point on that. First I'm going to tell you about cognition. They're the makers of Devon, the AI software engineer. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. So the question of which is more of a bottleneck, energy or TSMC in the chip supply chain is interesting because energy feels like this incredible bottleneck. It's a very political hot button issue now. Energy prices are rising, data centers need a lot of energy. But if you look at the amount of chip fabrication that's going to AI and then the amount of energy production that's going to AI, obviously the number of chip production going to AI is a way higher percentage because a lot of the chips are a lot of the line time at TSMC. Yes, they do. All sorts of different chips and CPUs still get made and there's a bunch of ASICs for different networking equipment. There's all sorts of different chips that get made. I mean the toaster that has a chip that blew on different process nodes. But even if you include all of that, I would assume that the total amount of fabrication line time is, is, you know, heavily, heavily allocated to GPUs, TPUs AI chips right now. Whereas the amount of energy that AI is using is probably less than 1% of total capacity. Yeah, it's interesting that CC Way, the CEO of TSMC, he doesn't have to go on the podcast tour raising money all the time. There's not, there's not, you know, they're, they're not like pushing this like insane kind of fast takeoff narrative. No, it's not at all very much. Like kind of, hey, we're just trying to run our business the way that we always have, be pragmatic about this, fulfill as much demand as we possibly can. But they seem to not be inclined to take on the amount of the level, certainly not the level of risk that imagine if you had Larry Ellison running zsmc. Get him in the ring. I want him in there so badly. Yeah, no, no, you're 100% right. But at the same time we're seeing the hyperscalers throw their weight around in like crazy ways. We covered AWS is like buying copper mines and stuff or I don't know if it's copper mine, but like getting into mining, there's a whole bunch of vertical integration that's going on. Tesla all the way down to battery refinement and lithium ion production. Meta today announced a $6 billion multi year partnership with, with Corning that will supply fiber optic cables for our data center infrastructure bolstering manufacturing in America and keeping the country competitive in the global AI race. We can read through a little bit of this, but first I'm going to tell you about the New York Stock Exchange. Want to change the world, Raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange. Yeah, Corning up 15% on the news today. Makes sense. What is their market? Okay, let's see. $94 billion company and I'd love to know their revenue as well. Revenue, let's see, the revenue was. I don't know if I can find it. Annual revenue 12 billion. So this is yeah, pretty, pretty material. Let's see. Meta platforms is set to test new subscription models across apps. No, that's a different story. Different story, but we can run through it. I am interested to know a little bit more. So the $6 billion multi year agreement it supports a 15 to 20% increase in jobs at Corning's North Carolina facilities building and operating data centers. The infrastructure that brings our technologies to life and supports our goal of personalized super intelligence. That certainly sounds like an AI personal assistant. Certainly sounds like Moltbot to me. Stroat requires strong servers and hardware that connect and transfer information in near real time. Fiber optimization cables are a critical part of this technology the supply helping us power everything from wearable technology like Ray Ban Meta AI glasses to our apps which connect billions of people. Today they're doing $6 billion project. As part of this agreement Corning will grow its manufacturing capacity and across its operations with includes a significant capacity operation capacity expansion in North Carolina. Meta's data centers, 26 of which are under construction right now are operational. That's a lot of data centers. That's why they have a compute desk. If you, if you have this is, this is. This is a bit of advice for everyone. If you're working in a business and you have like a team or a guy that does something, you need to upgrade that to a desk. Yep. Yeah, yeah, you need. We predominantly desk millionaires. Millionaires have guys. Billionaires have desks probably. Yeah. Well, trillion dollar companies have desks. That's what it is. So Meta's data centers have already supported 30,000 skilled trade jobs during construction and support 5,000 operational jobs. This includes electricians, H Vac specialists, server and network technicians, safety and security experts and engineers who work together to run some of the world's most advanced facilities. Let's give it up. Moving on. 11 labs build intelligent real time conversational agents. Reimagine human technology interaction with 11 labs. Meta to test premium subscription plans For Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp. This is in CNBC. Subscriptions for Premium features on meta apps are expected to roll out in the coming months. What will you do? The subscriptions will give paid users access to more features and expanded AI capabilities. Here's what's most interesting to me. This will be scaling. Meta's newly acquired suite of general AI agents under Manus will also be part of the subscription plan. So as I was saying earlier, when you think about, when we haven't gotten that much from Zuck on what the actual plan is, but when you think about personal superintelligence, I.e. aI that can do things for you, not just give you. I just wonder how much will happen outside of the Meta ecosystem. They've launched a search engine before that looked at websites outside of Facebook. They had that Project Titan, which was to unify all the different messaging protocols. So as part of that, they gave everyone a facebook.com email address or something like that. Maybe it wasn't facebook.com, maybe it was like FB me or something. But they gave every Facebook user whatever their unique username was. They gave them that as an email and you could email that and it would show up in Facebook Messenger. And then they tried to unify Facebook messenger so you could see Instagram DMs, WhatsApp messages and Facebook messages all in one place. I can see what you're laughing at. Dave says, yeah, I want more of those amazing meta AI features. You say that now. I mean, let them cook at least a little bit because we really haven't seen seen them launch a new model, a new image model. They should be able to get too close to the frontier. It has to be at least sora, nano, banana, VO3 level. They have all the data, they have all the talent now. They're very GPU rich. They have the compute for it and the research has been done and people have reverse engineered it so you would think that whatever's coming should be good. And I don't know, I was looking at. Isn't capcut owned by TikTok or aren't they affiliated? Right, because Meta has the Edits app, which I've been making some videos in and it's pretty good. It does some interesting background reviews. ByteDance. It's ByteDance. And so I doubt this is getting. Oh, you think it's a separate. Okay. Okay. Because capcut has multiple levels of subscription tier and you can very easily wind up spending $200 a month on like the AI Pro features that will do Generative video style transfer. And when you see those videos, like the good AI videos on Instagram reels that are usually like they'll take a cinematic clip from a movie and then they will do a face replacement or like a head swap and then they'll do AI voices and then dub the lips so that the lips match what the, what the audio's saying and it looks really convincing. With that workflow, how do you bring that to someone on a phone? How do you bring that to someone in the Instagram app or in the Edits app even if they're going to more of like their prosumer offering? The mobile video editing space is particularly interesting to me just watching how Edits has evolved and I used to use Imovie on my phone a little bit. I used to use. There was an app called Clips that Apple developed and there were a few others that I tried. But the Edits app is. You're incredibly good at making videos on your phone. I love it. I know, I love video editing. But I don't have enough time anymore to sit down and open up After Effects and Premiere with multiple monitors and have connected After Effects file that feeds into the Premiere profile and really doing a proper edit with all the powerful tools that are out there on the desktop, like it's just not in the cards for me. And so I have to be able to do something quick on my phone. And I think that that's a very modern experience that most creators, they're just phone first phone native and so they're never really going to go back to the multi monitor workstation maybe. But in general they're editing really quickly and they're editing pretty incredible stuff. When you look at some of the reels that are out there with like layered cropped and removing the background and like the AI tools are coming in and I could see, I could see Meta offering a premium subscription around that anyway. Console console builds AI agents that automate 70% of it HR and finance support giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets. So Dave in the X chat says Inshot is pretty good for mobile. I need to try that. I haven't, I haven't tried Inshot. I've been seeing more and more ads. I'll see a video for like an F1 edit that are incredible. These F1 edits are so cool where they will show you one clip and then they cut the character out and edit in the other clip and then transitions like the transitions are amazing. And I've been seeing some people have clearly Built apps to do that specific type of edits like the really crazy editors are using. Probably after effects or something. Ryan asks, is Tyler still drunk? Yeah, one sip. He's just over there slurring his work. That really broke me. Anyway, Applovin profitable advertising made Easy with Axon AI. Get access to over 1 billion daily active users and grow your business today. We had a great comment in one of the podcast feeds. Someone said, give us an Axon Klaxon. Because a klaxon is a loud clash. We were all puzzling over what that means when we smashed it, we walked in immediately, it's an Axon Klaxon. Niraj Agarwal says TikTok is dead. The algorithm is worse than the reels that make it to Facebook. Wow, I haven't seen that. Yeah. So basically they're transitioning everything over. Yesterday there was a. Apparently an outage. Kind of an outage. Like people were able to post videos but the videos wouldn't be served at all. So I think a lot of people assume that it was like the new ownership kind of censoring. I believe they had an outage at a data center that was a cause of that. So before we. Before we call it dead. Yep. Let's wait for a few days and see how it pans out. We do have a TikTok account. It's BPN. How many followers does it have? I haven't checked. I haven't checked. I don't think we post on it ever. 3,500. Not bad. That's better than what I thought. First time. I'm not really focused on it. Maybe we'll test it out, but I'm pretty happy with just. I want the things we do to be polished. I want the core show to be polished. Diet TVPN, our 20 to 30 minute cut down. I want that to be polished. I want the newsletter to be polished@TPPn.com every Polish newsletter. I like that. Before we bite off another part of. The apple, another, please. Please, sir, not one more short form. Not one more short form. It is a lot. It is a lot. Anyway, Phantom cash. Fund your wallet without exchanges or middlemen and spend with the Phantom card. Let's move over to the Super Bowl. The super bowl is coming up. I think it's going to be this year, in the next couple months. When is it? It's coming up. It's coming up because there's advertisements that are going out and you gotta watch it because the ads are gonna be incredible. I actually just had to search when Is Super Bowl. Is it this Sunday? No, it's February 8th. Okay, so next Sunday. Okay. It's going to be amazing. But mostly because of the advertisements, specifically. Eric Lyman, CEO of Ramp, shared meet Brian. Brian's been carrying, counting on his back for a long time. Super Bowl Sunday. He finally gets back up. Let's watch this preview. Pull it up of the ramps, guys. Yeah, we're real sports guys. This is the Super Bowl. You got to go. We got to Google the Ramp. Super bowl ad is the super bowl of Super Bowl. It feels like. It feels like, you know, they just kind of. It is. This is like, you know, what is it? What is it called? Like a warning, spoiler alert, you know? Okay, yeah, yeah. For anybody that wants to experience it live, you're going to want to. You're going to want to Skip ahead like 60 seconds. Let's watch. Finance meeting, five minutes. Ramp. I got it. Allow me. Hi, handsome. We're saving so much time and money. Policy violation coming through. Travel, meals, hotels. Quick. Beautiful. Everybody's out there. Multiply what's possible@ramp.com. i think it rips. I think it's a good super bowl ad. What has he got there? Maybe some chili. I don't want to make an assumption. It was just a silver pot. It was just a silver pot. Yeah. No, I think this achieves a couple things. I think. I mean, it drills the brand name in. Think about how many Ramp logos are in there. And then they're chanting Ramp. And for, you know, Ramp's a very successful company. We all know about it here, but there's a lot of people that just don't know the name Ramp. It's not. Hasn't been drilled into them like, you know, some company that's been around 50. Years, sort of on the precipice of being a house. There's not been enough mainstream marketing yet for a household name. Yeah. It's a life's work to actually drill into people's mind the Ramp name, the logo, the color, how it sounds when you say it, what it's synonymous with. And so just like not going too abstract, not trying to tell some more avant garde story here, I think is it's almost like a direct response. It's just so clear what the Problem solution brand. Problem solution brand. I need those yellow ties. Look at that. Like, they are really putting their logo full screen on the Super Bowl. Like, that is valuable. And sometimes I think sometimes it can feel like, oh, it's a little. It's like, simple. Like you could be Doing something more bold, more crazy. But I think this is what you need to do. Also last year, getting Saquon. Yeah. And then that was a really great. Actually winning that. That's actually kind of like an impossible set of circumstances. Not impossible, but it's a crazy roll of the dice. And then they're also building a whole, a whole role with Brian and they're building him into the brand world as the, as the downtrodden accountant who just needs, just needs some technology superpowers to improve him. Heading over to Toby. Yes. Toby over at Shopify posted his heart rate through his first stint at the Daytona. You see the first annotation on here. This is just Crash. Crash. Yeah. So. So he basically started out at like 120, 120 beats per minute. Right. He's doing, waiting, he does the warm up, preparing the formation lap and then there's a crash right on the right at the start. Very, very rough. Yeah. And yeah. So basically the crash happened with the LMP2 class, which is the kind of Pro Am. Same segment that George from crowdstriker is racing in. So both Toby and George, all of our boys, got hit right as the race opened. And so what George was saying yesterday, the reason he was frustrated, he's like, this is a 24 hour race. Yeah. Never has a race like this been won on the first lap. Yeah. And so it's, it's pretty, it's kind of, it's incredibly unforced to like crash in the opening corner. Sure. When you really should just get through it. It's like the most, you know it's going to be the most, like one of the most intense moments because there's so much traffic. But if you actually go and watch the footage of what happened at the opening, there was like somebody gets hit, spun out and then they're turning around and somebody hits them again. Two accidents in the opening minute. So insane. I love that the actual true final heart rate spike was at the end. When you're changing out of the car you've been driving. It's so intense. No, you know this when you're getting out of a track car. It's like watching a guy who's 6, 8. We will never share that footage. It is extremely embarrassing. Always like crawling out of. It's actually, you have to get on. Your, you basically have to get on all fours. It's incredibly negative aura and I don't appreciate you sharing it on the show. Well, I think it's, I still think it's cool. It's funny. But yeah, I go full sun, basically fly out of the car on my paws. Anyway, Cisco. On February 3rd, the Cisco AI Summit brings together leaders from Nvidia, OpenAI, AWS and more to discuss the future of the AI economy. The whole thing will be live streamed and we'll be there for a gigastream. To see you there. Yes. Jabroni on X says Zoom is the best anthropic play. Yes. Yes. We were debating Zoom likely made a $51 million investment in Anthropic Series C. How? In 2023. How? At a 4.1 billion valuation. If you're looking at their new 350, there's something like an 85x even diluted. Zoom may have a multibillion dollar position. Stock is down 80% since 2021. And Zoom is only a course. This is Never financial advice. $27 billion company. Yeah. Part of the issue is people kind of notice this, and the Stock's now up 16% in the last five days, so who knows how much it's priced in. Tyler Major, I won't give you too much flack for it, but obviously the most bullish in the room. I'm bullish on AI Broadly, yes. You seem like you'd be happy to own Zoom at $100 billion valuation, even if they had no business at all. And they just. Even if they just. It's a digital asset. Treasury, actually. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the story. This is like a rumor, but basically it was that Anthropic, like, wanted to just like use Zoom and get like the enterprise plan or whatever. But then they were like, well, yeah, you can have it. But, like, we want to throw in a little something, right? Because. Are you serious? Okay, this might be fake. This seems like fake news, Tyler. Okay. Zoom sells. And you know Zoom sells enterprise software, right? Look, that's what I read. That's their basic find the post, But. I for sure read they sell enterprise software. And so Anthropic says, hey, we're big Zoom fans here. We want to use Zoom. And they're like, no, actually for you. Now, at the same time, I mean. We know how important. So many. Yes, yes. I mean, so many people in venture, in the tech community have sort of been very bearish on corporate VC that they usually have their hands tied. They can't move as quickly. They're not as pure play. The economics don't make sense for the partners on whatever corporate venture fund is there. If it came out of their corporate ventures program, this could be. Zoom Ventures is in Anthropic they're in cb, amex Global Business Travel, which. That's a startup. I thought that's American. Did they spin it out? Maybe they. I don't know. Maybe they spun it out. Unsure. They're also in Core Weave. Wow. So there's some real pickers over there. They are. And perplexity. Yeah, I mean, Zoom has a bunch of AI features. I've seen people, after the crazy Covid pump where everyone got on Zoom, they started adding crazy features like dictation and workspaces and whiteboarding and stuff. But obviously it was so overheated that it came back down to earth. But now they have an anthropic position on the balance sheet, which will be fun for them. I wonder what they will do post ipo Anyway. Shopify is the commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces. Now with AI agents slowly and then all at once is Blake Robbins. He says your work tools are now active in Claude Draft Slack messages or interactive Draft Slack messages. Visualize ideas in Figma and build and see Asana timelines. All of the different tools are coming together in one place. Very cool. Yeah, a lot of people were very happy about, like Claude Excel playing around with that. And it does feel like there's. When you see an account like Claude posting about Slack and Figma and Asana, you have to imagine there's a discussion there. It's not open source, so there's probably something. And so they're chipping away at these. And OpenAI has been chipping away at these for a long time. So the race is on to have the most integrations at this point. Sarah Eisen over at cnbc, Squawk on the street is sharing breaking Anthropic's warning to the world. Anthropic CEO Dario Amade says eminent real danger that superhuman intelligence will cause civilization level damage absent smart speedy intervention. Sarah says so buy our products. This is the problem of dropping like a 20,000 word essay. Is that like you're gonna get clipped out of context? Like there was so much nuance in that Dario essay, which I have not finished all the way through. I was reading it last night. It is very good. But Tyler, can you make. You should make a version of the new letter with Subway Surfers that run. Oh, true. Yeah, Build that as a standalone. Yeah, we need a cloud labs. Chad Ide for reading. Vlad, summarize this in four words. AI good. Maybe it's so by our products. Maybe that's the four word summary. Who knows? Jeff in the X chat says guys, I'm building Moltbot. Clap clap. Let's go. Stay tuned. Okay Jeff, we are tuned. We will remain tuned. Let us know when you launch Information Vibe Co where D2C brands, B2B startups and AI companies advertise on streaming TV, pick channels, target audiences and measure sales. Just like on Meta. That one gets me every time. It's so good. Fleeting Bits has some thoughts on Dario's. 14 of them specifically. That's a lot of thoughts. Okay, let's run through it. There's nothing new here. If you're familiar with the AI safety discussions that have been happening on Twitter, yes, but it's important for Dario to restate them in a format that can be passed around and formatted and is coherent from start to finish, so still serves a valuable purpose for the ecosystem. The most interesting bit is that his mental model for AI control risk is the risk that would be posed by a country of geniuses in a data center. Interesting. That is interesting. The basic idea is that we should imagine a giant data center, all the models being something between AGI and asi, trying to coordinate to take over the world or do massive harm. Anyway, I think how seriously you take short term AI control risk is inversely correlated to how much you think about AI control risk as operating in a system. So the systematic view starts and says labs exist in an ecosystem where they need to sell models that will follow human instruction or they have no market. They are also overseen by regulators and guided by public perception and the desires of their employees. And all of this keeps models corrigible. Great word. And the model landscape will look like three to six frontier labs running millions or billions of rollouts at a time on two to three different models, all on different tasks. So a model takeover requires these millions or billions of rollouts to somehow end up all be coordinating towards some bad aim that somehow the models have autonomously determined. And this coordination either needs to be across different model instances run by different labs, or one lab needs to be able to have its models dominate and needs to form without being detected. And this has to happen even though the models are being trained to follow instructions, not do bad behavior, et cetera. Dario's view is somewhere in the middle. On the one hand he collapses the multiple providers, our coordination across instances, and collapses the market incentives against labs developing models that would behave that way. But on the other hand, he does avoid the concept of a single model instance that somehow wakes up and takes over the world, despite billions of other rollouts occurring at the same time. Actually, though, if you think about it, he's not proposing an AI control risk, he is proposing an AI misuse risk instead. Because it seems more plausible to me that the harmful country of geniuses is awoken because a small team at a frontier lab hijack all the running instances of their model, rather than because the models themselves autonomously wake up to some bad aim. Interesting. Yes. Something I've been thinking about is this kind of summary. And a lot of the dialogue is centered around just like what are the models doing? Or a country of geniuses in a data center. But you have to be thinking about this in the context that the country of genius, a country of geniuses in a data center, would just recruit millions of humans to join their cause. Right. And so we think about like some people, like when they're thinking about AI risk, it's like, ha ha, dude, just like turn the computer off. Yeah, yeah. Like just unplug it. But it's like, what if you're on the side computer? What if there's you know, 100,000 people or like 10,000 people defending it on top of the data center being like. You know, don't unplug the computer. Don't unplug the computer. Right. And so when you look at all the chaos of the last week, there's been so many moments where like a certain image was AI generated. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, that wasn't a real image at all. And it's being shared from all sides. And so at what point you could have nefarious hostile AI, that's entire job is just creating chaos. Millions of bot accounts that are just like sharing whatever narrative is self serving. Yeah. You can't tell. Yeah. I mean, I think I really enjoyed this essay. I thought if you kind of compare it to a lot of like other safety works. So like Eliezer's book, if anyone builds it, everyone dies. Yeah. Like the two kind of scenarios where Dario's is about basically, even if we have like pretty safe models, which like he thinks we can do with interpretability or whatever, if it gets into the wrong hands, it's like very bad. If it gets into autocracy. And that's kind of the real. That's one of the main risks where Eliezers and a lot of the safety ones are always these very sci fi narratives where you have this gray goo, you have these nano machines that somehow one day they just kind of flip and then it's just kind of over And I think this is much more reasonable and nuanced. Yeah, it's much more legible to. Yeah, yeah. And especially I think a lot of it is there's this kind of like, I don't even know if it's really subtext, but he's definitely pointing in the direction of like, we need some government oversight. We need policy. And it seems like, like you can very easily like track like his ideas on what policy should be from this essay. Right. It's a lot about China, a lot about, you know, making sure that individual companies don't like become, you know, as big as governments. One interesting wrinkle with this. He did not post it as an X article. He posted it as a link because he wants to signal to everyone like, look, I don't need the million. I don't need the million. I don't need the million. I know I got a banger on my hands. 3.5 million views, 11k likes. Obviously lots of discussion all over because. Sam posted an X article, right. He's got, he's got 1.4 trillion. He really does want that extra mil. He needs the extra mil. You know, it's, it's not, doesn't put him all the way towards the goal. But it's a count. A mill is a mill. A mill is. But, but as an investor, like I want to see my, my lab CEO be like super hungry for compute. Right? Yeah. So I want them to always be grinding to get like extra. Oh, so maybe this is bearish. They should have. I'm a vc If I'm an anthropic, I'm like, why did he not post this on X? Yeah. That million dollars could have gone straight into like more. Elon would have for sure. His rival. I can definitely see that happening. Nikita walking to a meeting with Elon just shaking. I'm very sorry. People have voted. They want to give it to Daria. I mean, Elon said some things about Claude. He said, it'll eat Microsoft. He's all over the place in who he's supporting on a day to day basis. But anyway, Okta. Okta assigns you. Okta helps you assign every AI agent a trusted identity so you get the power of AI without the risk. Secure every agent. Secure any agent. More important than ever. Key Smash Bandit. Last post. Last post. Last post. Last post. Keysmash Bandit says Claude just found out I'm poor. Oh yeah, this is so fun. Keysmash sends a picture of a Raspberry PI to Claude and says, look what just came in the mail. Claude says, oh, for me? That's thoughtful. Do you. And then the person says, do you like it? We've been discussing some more powerful hardware. What made you decide on this instead? I love that this also has 11,000 likes. I never. I mean, this is probably fake. Who knows? But it's so funny. Are you kidding? This is like, I don't want to. Run on a Raspberry PI. I want a Mac Mini. Maxed out specs. Give me 48 gigs of RAM, please.

It is Tyler. It is Tyler's birthday. And it's not just any birthday. It's Tyler's 21st birthday. Yes. Which is very, very special. And so, yeah, you are just. You are. You're truly an incredible young man, Tyler. And we are very lucky to have you on the team. And you have such a bright future. So wise. Wise for your years for sure. And you have. You do have. We thought it was fitting that if you want to have your first ever sip of alcohol ever, you could do it on the show. But keep it at a sip, you know, I can try. Now this is the happy dad. Okay. First. First taste of alcohol. Ian in the chat says. Four more years till you can rent a car. Mocked. Tyler, apparently you share a birthday with the iPad. Give us a review. How. Is it alcohol? Wow. I mean, this is. This is incredible. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't expect alcohol taste like this. This is incredible. You had one idea in your mind and this is just completely different than what you expected. I would agree with that. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's kind of a. Cool moment. You're finally qualified to go on cheek.