We are experts. Triple blaze. Let's just roll right. Market clearing order inbound. You're surrounded by gentlemen. Hold your position. Strike1, Strike 2, Activate. Go to retriever mode. I see multiple journalists on the horizon. Founder. You're watching TVPN. Today is Tuesday, January 20, 2026. We are live from the TVPN Ultra Dome, the temple of technology, the fortress of finance, the capital of capital. Ramp time is money. Save up, easy to use. Corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, and a whole lot more all in one place. Dav. Not the best way to save money, apparently. Very expensive if you go. But a lot of people have been, and for good reason, because there's a lot of news happening in Davos, mainly a lot of it's focused on Trump. A lot of it's focused on Greenland. I'll give you a little tour of the Wall Street Journal. Trump's amped up rhetoric on Greenland, puts issue center stage at Davos. Why don't you pull up the COVID of the Financial Times, too? The Financial Times? You want me to do this bet? Here we go. Well, you know, the markets are in turmoil. The Dow slid 800 points. Treasury prices are dropping. We know that if you're investing, you got to do it on public.com, investing for those who take it seriously. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto treasuries, and more with damn great customer service. That's right. So the front of the Financial Times, it says, Trump keeps seizure of Greenland by force on table as trade tensions mount. And so this is one of the most aggressive images that I can imagine running on the front of a international newspaper. Now, the Financial Times, of course, is a British paper. So much less, just different dynamics with the current American administration. You know, Trump, I think, has a lawsuit going with the Wall Street Journal. There's a whole bunch of things that are going on with the American media. But over in the Financial Times, they print some wild stuff. And they printed this image of a. Of a Danish soldier pointing a gun at the camera. So Danish soldiers exercising uncle. Anybody that's been around guns knows that. You don't want to be looking down. The barrel pointing a gun at anyone. Crazy. Even a photographer to get a cool picture is typically just completely off limits. Yeah, yeah. And so, but they went there. What this says to me is that, you know, the Danes said, hey, the head of the army has been flown out to the autonomous territory. Danish troops are on the ground in Greenland, and we're doing a photo shoot. We're getting a soldier with a sniper rifle or an Assault rifle. We're going to point that at a camera person. We're going to take that photo and then we're going to send that to the editor of the Financial Times. We're going to run it on the front page. We're going to run it on the front page. Of course, the Danes don't have the authority to just put anything on the front page, but they pitched it and clearly they sent the photo and the Financial Times editor enjoyed it. So he put it on the front page. But it kind of gives you a little bit of a taste of what's going on. The Wall Street Journal is also covering it. Trump threats on Greenland mobilize allies. That is taking center stage at Davos. But this is a technology show, this is a business show and we're focused on what Dario Amadei said at Davos. We will pull this up. Pull it up. First, let me tell you about Railway Railway simplifies software deployment, web apps, servers and databases. They run in one place with scaling, monitoring and security built in. So let's pull up the clip of Dario Amadeh on stage. He's the co founder and CEO of Anthropic. He calls out Trump's policy around Nvidia and China. Let's play the clip into the world. Right when, when we're, when we're, you know, competing against other companies for enterprise contracts, we see, just honestly and candidly, we see Google and we see OpenAI. Every once in a while we see a couple other US Players. I have almost never lost a deal, lost a contract to a Chinese model. But now you have the Trump administration and I think you've already protested about this, giving high speed chips, Nvidia chips to the Chinese. That's right. That's right. The thing that is holding them back, and they've said it themselves, the CEOs of these companies say it's the embargo on chips that's holding us back. They explicitly say this. And now indeed, you know, there are some policies and I hope they change their mind to, you know, to explicitly send not quite our latest generation of chips, although it was reported that even that was being considered. But you know, the generation of chips, that's just one back, that's still extremely powerful. And we are many years ahead of China in terms of our ability to make chips. So I think it would be a big mistake to ship these chips. You know, the analogy I thought of, if you think about the incredible national security implications of building model, building models that are essentially cognition, that are essentially intelligence Right. I've called where we're going with this. A country of geniuses in a data center, right? So imagine hundred thousand people smarter than any Nobel Prize winner, and it's going to be under the control of one. One country or another. So I think this is crazy. I think it's, you know, it's a bit like, you know, I don't know, like selling. Selling, you know, nuclear weapons to North Korea and, you know, bragging. Oh, yeah, Boeing made the case. Your friend David Sacks is basically arming the Chinese. No, I wouldn't refer to any political. Trying to put words in his mouth is akin to. Yeah, it's not. Well, okay, I want Jordy's reaction. I want Tyler's reaction. But first I want to tell you about Label Box. Reinforcement learning environments, voice robotics evals, and expert human data. Label Box is the data labeling factory behind the world's leading labs. Tyler. Tyler, what's your reaction to that? How do you interpret that? How big of an issue is the China question right now? What are you reading into Dario's rhetoric there? Yeah, I mean, I think it's like fairly reasonable. If you basically think that AI is going to be AGI, it's going to be this massive, we're going to get 10% GDP growth. Because at some point it's like, if it's just like economy versus economy, like, we got to be better. Yeah, that's something that sort of lost. Worried about doom. Yeah. Because there's also the point where competition. Yeah. Like, if you're worried about safety also. So there's like two ways. Right. If you think Asia just is going to be massive, you know, economically speaking. And then also on the safety issue. Right. Because if you think, like, maybe China is going to be less concerned about safety, they're not going to be as worried about alignment. That's like obviously a massive danger. You don't want it to. You don't want to give the technology to people who don't worry about the safety aspect. The funny thing about in America, where AI could lead to 10% GDP growth, and China's like, oh, you mean what we did in 2007 when we were growing at 14% GDP growth? Or should we go back to 1970 when we grew at 19%? Or should we go back to 2004 when we were 10.1 or 1992 when we were growing at 14.3% or even in 2021, they had an 8.6 GDP growth. They know 10% GDP growth over there. They felt it. They'll do it with or with, without AI chips. But obviously one dynamic that's interesting is China has obviously a massive advantage in robotics. Yes. And right now we have an advantage in the models. Yes. And if that kind of continues, but. Also dynamically use like the data centers, like we are too rich. So I'm saying, I guess like robotic stack. AI stack. Yeah. Yeah. And it'll be interesting to see how because obviously if you have an advantage in one area, that might help you gain an advantage in another area. Right. But we'll see which one ends up being more, more impactful. Let me tell you about Cisco. It's critical infrastructure for the AI era. We love Cisco. We're happy to be partnered with them. And let me also take you through the linear lineup today because we have some great guests on the show. We have Martin Shkreli joining at noon, Bradley Tusk at 20. If you're not familiar with Martin Shkreli, he's an American businessman. He's a businessman and investor. Lucas Zinger's coming in. We have a surprise for everyone. We're going to be taking a look at his car. We're very excited about that. And then we have the lambda lightning round. Linear, of course, is the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprise workspaces on LINEAR are using agents. Now, we're very excited to share that fact with you. Let's click it over to Palantir CEO Alex Karp, who shared some commercial lessons of AI on the battlefield. There's a clip from him from Davos. And there's a little Easter egg in this video for the true TBPN ball knowers for the video for the TBPN fans. I know, I know what you're about to say. So watch this clip and you can tell me if you identify a former guest. Former guest. Enterprises in general, not all enterprises tend to want to over time, become like every enterprise. So if you take five, A enterprise and B enterprise and C enterprise, they're in the same market. Their tech infrastructure is trying to make them into the same enterprise. They have the same orchid chart. Sure. They have presumably roughly the same. They don't have the same data and infrastructure. And what you learn on the battlefield is that and in life is that that's not particularly valuable. What is very valuable is an enterprise can do something no enterprise in the world can do. And so that is the goal of every single military intelligence service. In fact, all these intelligence services and militaries have their own specialization. And so when we went to commerce, like what we're saying is how can we make your insurance cover the way you underwrite? How can we make that to your tribal knowledge about underwriting? How can we transform this to knowledge? Everyone has. Okay, go back one second. Are you sure? Go back one second. Transform this to knowledge. Okay. It's very hard to see, but behind the guy to the right, behind Alex Karp, behind Alex Karp, there's another man. And behind that man, next to the WEF logo is a man who has. Been on the show, Philip Johnston, the co founder, CEO of the. Wait, I thought you were talking about Satya Nadella. Wait, what? I think that's Satya in the back. Wait. Oh, you think it's Satya? No, I'm talking about the guy right there that you can see. That's Phillips from starcloud. I saw him go to Davos and I was like, this guy's on a generational run this whole time. Not. Maybe it's not. I think it is. I'm really sorry, Philip, if I got this wrong, but that looks a lot. Like be getting it wrong too. Like you. We might just be seeing things. We might be seeing things, we might be hallucinating, but the one thing we're not hallucinating is Lambda Lambda is the super intelligence cloud. Building AI supercomputers for training, inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. Anyway, enough with the ecstasy. This whole time I thought you'd. I thought. I really was thinking the guy in the back. Really? No, no, no, no. Kind of hard to clock. I don't think that's Satya. I think that's. I think that's Philip Johnson from Star Cloud. I did see him go to Davos, so it's not crazy. But he'll probably correct me if that's not him. Anyway, I would love an explainer from regav around the recession indicator. Youngboy never broke again. I'm familiar with NBA YoungBoy, but I'm not familiar with the recession indicator. So I would love to get some more information from you folks on this. Let's. So let's dive in and dig into what Dr. Karp actually said on the stage at Davos. But first, let me tell you about Fin, the number one AI agent for customer service. If you want AI to handle your customer support, go to fin.AI. so it's an interesting pitch. It's particularly interesting talking about just more and more custom systems and this idea of software gets built. A whole bunch of companies are doing things a manual way. One company extracts that and sort of factors out that business process turns IT into enterprise SaaS is sold to all the different companies. Now what Karp is really saying it sounds like is that every company will have some sort of custom implementation that will be way more flexible and way more tuned to their specific businesses. And this is sort of the Palantir pitch. They'll come in and build something that's semi custom, semi on top of their systems that they've already built. And it's an interesting like blurring of the lines from you want something that checks all your boxes but in the future will you really want if you're at, if you're a large enterprise, will you really want to be vibe coding your own solutions to everything? Maybe, but going to need a. You probably want system of recruiting and that's like the pitch for the ontology stack. Understanding how the data links together, then as you build on top of that you have a more solid foundation. Seems like a good pitch would be interesting to see how this is like where the rubber meets the road and at what level. The big question with Palantir right now is they work with the largest companies and organizations in the world, obviously the military among them. But will they go down the stack and have more. They have aip, they're bringing more startups onto the platform. Will there be a world where more sort of mid market enterprises, sub 10 billion dollar companies are thriving with a Palantir backed system? Certainly would be good for the business to just have more customers on board, but will be a dynamic that grows anyway. 11 labs build intelligent real time conversational agents. Reimagine human technology interaction with 11 Labs. And I gotta give 11 Labs a shout out because yesterday when we spent 45 minutes talking about X articles, I know everyone loved that because I did summarize it in a newsletter piece that you could have read in two minutes. But it was fun talking for 45 minutes. One of the things that I brought up was that maybe ElevenLabs should do an article reader that would allow you, since there's articles all over X now, to just click a button and have elevenlabs read it to you. Well, they built it and, and it's already live. So very, very exciting. 11 reader is the account here. It says articles everywhere. You can save them with your Chrome extension, listen on the web or to your phone in under 10 seconds for the bookmarkers out there, for the people that are finding those articles and saying I'm going to book those. Probably a pretty reasonable way to actually get through your stack of articles that you've been meaning to read, but you were busy and you just saw it and you saw that it got a lot of likes and a lot of engagement and you want to dig in, but you don't have the time. So you're going to head over and do that anyway. Vibe Co where D2C brands, B2B startups and AI companies advertise on streaming TV, pick channels, target audiences and measure sales just on meta. Head over to Chinese Vice Premier he lifong over at Davos. Okay, what did he say? China never seeks a trade surplus. On top of being the world's factory, China hopes to become the world's market. Let's watch the Chinese vice versa, boy economy and trade. We never seek trade surplus. On top of being the world's factory, we hope to be the world's market too. Boy economy and it was an accident. We didn't mean to do this. It was an accident. It was not our intention to develop a massive trade surplus with the world. I feel like you, I mean, not to go back to 11 labs, but you have a lot of flexibility with the translator that you choose at one of these events. How are you not going with an Arnold Schwarzenegger? You know, Totally. Yeah. Like you could have anyone be your translator, so why not throw in a Morgan Freeman or, you know, just. Just any type of really. Like Joe Rogan. Yeah, Joe Rogan. He already is announcing the ufc. Get him on the microphone, translate it for him, and then he reads it out to the audience and it sounds like you're Joe Rogan voice is out there. I like it. I like it. Anyway, I mean, I think this is positive. You know, we were just talking to Matt Grimm yesterday about, you know, the west versus China and global competition. And like, I think all of that stuff is important. I think what Dario is saying is important. But I still come back to this idea that, like, no one wants war. No one wants, you know, everyone wants positive, some relationships. And so it is good to see, you know, global leaders coming together better than everyone just being holed up and posting at each other on redbook and Truth Social. I like an economic forum. I think Davos is back. That's the real lesson from this year. I think the fact that Trump was going was a big poll, There was a lot of coverage, a lot of interesting discussion around it. And Davos really pulled together a fantastic group this year and is definitely breaking through in the tech community, in the business community, in the political community in a way that I don't remember it being as important in last year. And so little bit of a comeback. You love to see it. Console consul builds AI agents that automate 70% of IT HR and finance support, giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets. Lee San Al Gaib is quoting Dario at Davos, who also said, we don't need to maximize engagement for a billion users, of course. Taking shots. Taking shots. Okay, so folks, over at Open. I threw this. I threw this question to both of you earlier today. What is the problem? It's funny that this is a shot too, because it's like he is acknowledging that they've developed. Is he anti ads? Yeah. Anthropic is against slopping ads. He said he's anti ads. Wow. Boo. This is hard. I was falling in love with Dario. I love so much about his rhetoric. Obviously, the models are fantastic. But he has to come and stab me in the back like that with a shot on my favorite, favorite piece of the global economy, the advertising industry. Very, very brutal. But hopefully we can. What other notes did you have from the conversation? Yeah, yeah. So there's a bunch I took. So. Yeah, These ones were from. He did a, like a Wall Street Journal Q and A this morning. Okay. Okay. So I'll just read some quotes. Yeah. He thinks we're gonna have very high GDP and very high unemployment and inequality. So. So when we. We've kind of ballparked this at like, 10% GDP growth for America, that would be unprecedented, massive. We're typically at like, 2 to 3%. 10% would be a significant acceleration. Yeah. And then for the. Unemployment was like, 10 to 20%. That's a whole lot. That's a lot. And we can debate this more, and I'm sure we will. We'll eventually formulate an entire structural presentation around this at some point. But. Yeah. And then he said there's going to have to be some role for, like, for the government to intervene on some macro level to, like, you know, help. Help with this displacement of labor. Yep. He says ideology will not survive this technology. Ideology will not survive. A bit of a vague. Except his ideology. He's like. Actually, mine is like, kind of got a straight shot here. Yeah. What could be more ideological than being against advertising? He said he's a zealot. He's an anti advertising zealot. He said AI is uniquely well suited to autocracy. Autocracy, yes. Yes. This is a teal take as well. Yeah. This was in the context of, like, why he's kind of anti Giving chips to China. Okay. Yeah. AI is communist Crypto is libertarian. That take. Yeah, yeah. And then he kind of, he said, like, Google and the OpenAI are like firmly in consumer. It's kind of this existential, like, battle between them. And Anthropic is firmly in enterprise. He's, he's very happy with that decision. He doesn't have to, you know, monetize the billion users or whatever or monetize free users. He can just sell, like, things. I'm so happy I don't have to worry about monetizing a billion users. He said. On the question of, like, are they going to do generative stuff? He said they probably won't ever do it. I think Sholto said this too. Yeah. But if there are enough models out there that Claude code can go and sign you up for the nanobanana API. Yeah. Maybe there's a use case for images and presentations or something, but then they can just kind of vend in some API, they can contract it. So my big question is, I think we all agree that ads in the Claude iOS app are a very low priority. Something we will likely not see this year. That's right. Thank you. Something we likely won't see this year just because they have such a good business going on the enterprise side and the user base for the Claude iOS app is not necessarily big enough to support a really healthy ad business and they're sort of ideologically against it. But on the slop question, you can use Claude code to generate slop. Like you can article slop. Well, article slop, but also imagery. You can wire it up to the Sora API, to the nanobanana API, and you can go create a whole bunch of generative video and people. But that is the Sholto promise of, like, it should be able to go and use other models. Right. The question for me is, when will that functionality come to the Claude iOS app? Because Claude writes that's very natural to like, cowork. So I think when that comes to iOS. Exactly. Yeah. But so what will the cowork iOS product look like? How much flexibility will it have? Because it won't have all the same APIs to go into your, your folders. Like the whole cleaning up your desktop like meme on your MacBook Pro with Claude code? That's something that would just be sort of inaccessible to the iOS ecosystem because the APIs aren't there. So even if they tried to build it, Apple just say, no, no, no, you're not rearranging icons on the desktop because that could be used maliciously. And this is a privacy issue, and this is a security issue. And so we're not giving you the hooks to do that. The question is, like, how much can they do in the cloud? And then vend back to you. Because if you have a virtual machine that's running Python and has CLAUDE code running and you're interfacing with it from the Claude iOS app, you could do a bunch of crazy stuff, including generate images and go and sign up for a nanobanana account. What if we have an AI safety incident this year where somebody leaves a CLAUDE code terminal kind of open and on just creates billions of social media accounts and flooding the Internet with. I thought you were gonna say just like some kid. You know how, like, kids will download, like, Fortnite and then, like, spend too much on V bucks or they'll, like, get their parents credit cards and, like, run up a bill. It'd be funny if someone, like, downloaded Claude on the iOS app and, like, accidentally kicked off something that, like, provisioned a ton of AWS servers and they just get a bill for like, $400,000 and they go bankrupt. That'd be a sort of AI safety incident. That'd be funny anyway. Figma. Figma make isn't your average vibe coding tool. It lives in Figma so outputs look good, feel real, and stay connected to how teams build, create code back prototypes and apps fast. So what else did Lisan al Gaib say about Davos? Some companies are essentially led by people who have a scientific background. That's my background. That's Demis's background. We had some love for Demis in the chat. Shout out to demis over at DeepMind. Some of them are led by a generation of entrepreneurs that did social media. Taking shots. Dario is like. He's. He's on one. Yeah. I mean, everybody. Entertaining, incredibly entertaining. Because it's. It's like bold statement jab. Yeah, Old statement jab. And then also people will hit him with the hard questions and he'll kind of be like. He'll acknowledge. He'll be. He'll. He'll very quickly tell the interviewer, I know where you're going with that, and I'm not going there. But in, like, a fun way that's not really adversarial. And he never flips it around, like, take shots at them and is like, why are you asking me that question? I'm not here to answer that question. He's like, no, no, I know what you're trying to get me to do, but I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna take the bait. But he, like, knows that it's bait. It's very entertaining. Interviewer trying to bait him into saying that David Sacks was arming the Chinese. That's crazy. That's crazy. He says there's a long tradition of scientists thinking about the effects of the technology that they built of thinking of themselves as having responsibility for the technology they built, not ducking responsibility. They are motivated in the first place by creating something for the world. So they worry in the cases go wrong. I think the motivation of entrepreneurs, particularly the generation of social media entrepreneurs, are very different. The way they interacted, you could say manipulated consumers is very different. I think that leads to different attitudes. He's taken some shots. Potentially it's Sam Altman, although Sam Altman, not really a social media entrepreneur, but I get that he's in that generation. Obviously this is more directed. Was he saying looped? Mark Zuckerberg? Is that a reference to looped? I mean, looped was technically social media, but I think of Sam Altman much, much more of YC enterprise software startup Stripe. He's never really been in house at a major social media company that I'm aware of. I don't know. But I take Dario's point, and he's just trying to reinforce this idea that he does think talking about responsibility for the technology of these buildings is important. That's. That's the anthropic vibe and brand, and it's served them very well. Anyway. Plaid. Plaid powers the apps you use to spend, save, borrow and invest securely. Connecting bank accounts to move money, fight fraud and improve lending. Now with AI, let's talk about Waymo. Let's do it. So today I wrote a quick piece. It was a reaction to a reaction because David Zipper went in Bloomberg and he wrote a piece, said, we still don't know if robo taxis are safer than human drivers. Then Kelsey Piper went over to the argument and wrote a response to that, saying, yes, we do know. And her interesting point was that what David Zipper is doing is he's lumping all of the different robotaxis together. So Waymo and Cruise and Tesla and Comma and Zoox and there's a whole bunch of other data that can go into this bucket, and they're not all created equal. Waymo's been doing it for decades at this point. They have insane Capex, insane opex. There's humans in the loop a lot of times, and it's just like the most advanced team. It seems like it's the most advanced technology stack there's a lot of advantages and that's actually showing up in the data. And so her main dispute with Zipper is over what data she's including, he's including in making this claim that, hey, we don't know if robo taxis are actually safer than human drivers. And she gives this great analogy that I really, really enjoyed. So, so she says, imagine someone writes a piece and they say, we don't know if airplanes are safe. Some people say that crashes are extremely rare and others say that crashes happen every week. And when you investigate this claim further, you learn that what's going on is that commercial aviation crashes are extremely rare. This is true. While general aviation crashes, small personal planes, including ones that you can build in your own garage, are quite common. And so yes, if you lump that together, you're going to get this muddy picture of aviation. But you shouldn't use that to sort of fear monger about getting on a 747 because 747s just so rarely crash. But yeah, if you build your own Cessna and you're modding it and you're taking it through the canyons, like, you gotta watch out. Ask any recreational pilot if they've ever gotten into any hairy incidents. Totally tell you like, oh yeah, well this time I was flying and the wind came on super strong and I landed and I was basically, you know. And a lot of times that counts as a crash. Like, I mean Harrison Ford has like crash landed on a golf course and no, I believe no one was injured. I think this happened multiple times actually by Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford, Yeah, he flies his own planes, but he flies like old planes and stuff. Like he's like a true enthusiast. Like he's, he's like how many simple flying dot com. How many plane crashes has Harrison Ford had? In the last 25 years? The actor has been involved in several incidents involving emergency landings, rescues and Runway. Incursions exactly like it happens. It sounds crazy. It is crazy. I would never want to be in any sort of plane crash. But there's just way more. There's just way more planes flying around when you include those Cessnas. And it's not really fair to put that on United Airlines or American Airlines. 13Th of February 2017 Santa Ana, California. Single engine Eviat Husky flown by Harrison Ford was cleared to land on Runway 20L. Ford's aircraft reportedly landed on a parallel taxiway overflying. American Airlines 737 is holding short of Runway 20L. 5th of March 2015 Santa Monica. Ford was a pilot and sole occupant of Ryan ST3KR recruit a two seat open cockpit aircraft that. Open cockpit. Open cockpit. Think about that. You're flying and the winds in your hair. Like that's not a normal experience. That's not coach on American Airlines, used extensively as a training aircraft by the US military in World War II. According to a preliminary report, Ford reportedly reported a loss of engine power shortly after taking off and was attempting to return to Runway three. So he ended up crashing into like a field. Ford chose to land on a nearby golf course, clipping the top of a tree before landing. If you just took Harrison Ford, he's probably more dangerous than like American arrow. In June 2000, while landing in Lincoln, Nebraska, Ford's plane departed the Runway due to a gust of wind. The aircraft sustained minor damage. 23rd of October. Wait, there's a fourth one. Ford was on a training flight in a Bell 206 helicopter when he and the instructor made an emergency emergency landing in a dry riverbed near Santa Clarita. Although the helicopter rolled over on its left side, neither Ford or the instructor were injured. Yeah, that's all that I can find. Okay, I have another plane story. I mean, imagine four major incidents like make it into the record. He's gotta have at least like 10. More like sketchy situation. No one wrote a piece about it. Let's not talk. Let's not talk about that. Let's agree that, you know, he calls his PR person. Hey, let's clean this up. How about you take a picture of me outside Erewhon? We get. Call the paps. I'm willing to give an Erwan branded smoothie. We need a new story. You need a different story. I want to be on the front of the New York Post. I'll take the bad picture on the beach of me falling off or something. Anyway, Cognition, they're the makers of Devon, the AI software engineer. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. So I actually have a friend who's been on the show. I'm not going to dox him, but we have two friends. Both of them fly. One of them's extremely serious, has IFR rating. So there's vfr, which is visual flight rules. That's like you take the plane up, it has to be clear because if you get into clouds, you're not trained for that. You can't fly. Exactly. IFR is you're flying on the instruments. Instrument flight rules. And so we have one friend who's like, super by the book, super safe. And then we have another buddy who's a little bit wilder VFR and he will rent like the cheaper planes. And one time the dial lights went out and he was landing at night, shouldn't be flying at night at all. Just like botched the schedule and didn't check sunset. And he has to use his phone flashlight while he's landing to look at the dials as he's coming in on this rickety old plane that he's flying. People get crazy out there, they get confident. It is very dangerous. But just like if you're getting into personal aviation, flying your own planes, the jump in safety from VFR to IFR is significant. Like the, the IFR guys like crash way way less so highly recommend that if you are getting into flying your own planes anyway. Restream 1 livestream 30 plus destinations. If you want to multi stream go to restream.com so Waymo is funny to write about because there's still a class of people that are writing the stories about like, hey, Waymo is actually safe. And I'm like, I completely buy it. I'm in. Roll the Waymos out everywhere. I, I've been in them, I feel safe in them. I've seen the data, I think they're safe. Like I'm just like my eyes glaze over when someone's like, I'm gonna blow your brain out. I'm gonna blow your mind. Like Waymos are saying robot car. I'm like, yeah, I'm in. I'm totally in. But there's still this debate. Most people in tech are debating about just Waymo's unit economics and like can they beat Tesla? What happens there? And so typically I don't really wade into the safety thing cause I think it's very safe. But this Piper piece, this piece by the Kelsey Piper did make me wonder about what happens if you further segment the human driver population. So we need to segment Robo taxis into Waymo and everyone else because Waymo's so good. But how do you, how does Waymo compare against the best human drivers? And I wasn't thinking like the Lewis Hamilton's of the world. I'm sure Lewis Hamilton could, could be superhuman at driving if he needed to. I wanted to think about it more as like if I'm an insurance agent and I'm underwriting a class A group of people, what would I be going for? And are they better than Waymo? And you can't look at fatal crashes per 100 million miles because there have been so few fatal crashes in Waymos. And there's Just not enough data yet to look at that. So what you can look at is any injury crashes per million miles. And the Kelsey Piper piece is really good. It goes into a bunch of different methodologies for data collection, looking at incidents where Waymo's airbags released. Because that's a very binary moment where there's a question about like, well, what's an injury? Like if somebody like got motion sick and then they had to go to the hospital, like does that count as an injury? Or like, what if they were getting out of the car and then they fall? Like, does that count? So there's all these things where it's like, does it count? So anyway, the best data that we have on Waymo is any injury crashes per million miles. For the average human, it's about four. Any injury crashes. So any injury that counts four per million miles. Waymo is way better, way better. 0.75. So about five times safer than humans broadly. But there's one very specific case where humans, I believe are safer. Now there's debate about the data. I just had Claude like crunch it all together and try and pull a bunch of stuff together. But I think this holds. So a married 60 year old woman who's college educated and is driving A large luxury SUV in Massachusetts on a Tuesday morning is closer to 0.5 injury crashes per million miles. Is the Tuesday morning part real? Yes. So the most dangerous time to drive, and I'll flip it around, the most dangerous time to drive is midnight on a Saturday because that's when people are at the bars, they leave, they're drinking. And so it's dark, it's the weekend, there's a lot more people on the road, they're driving much faster, they're getting places, they might be inebriated or under the influence of something. And so Tuesday morning is the safest time to drive. And so basically I looked at all the. It's the government IHTSA data, it's the transportation authority, I'm getting the acronym wrong, but you look at all the different segments and then you add all those together and you get kind of like the synthetic safest driver cohort. It's a little loose, but it does seem like if you looked at that cohort, they're still beating Waymo. Humans still got it at least like kind of. It's pretty close. It's honestly neck and neck, but. So none of this should take away anything, none of this should take away from. This feels like a Hayden Fielder episode in the making of like studying the women in Massachusetts? Yeah. Like what do they do on the planet? Just interviewing all of them. Married 60 year old, college educated women. Like the exact wrong conclusion. Oh, yeah, yeah. We need to, we need to get everyone married in college education. No, the conclusion is everyone needs to move to Massachusetts. Yes. And, well, it's the married 60 year old women that need to be the taxi drivers everywhere in the world. They need to be. It's like instead of Waymo, he starts. Like competitor to Waymo Ride hailing. That's just them. Yeah, that's just them. Yeah. But it only works in messenger, so clearly Waymos are very safe. Rolling them out nationally would be a huge safety upgrade for our society broadly. But it's worth noting that the Massachusetts married women still got it. But if you want to know, if you want to flip this around and find the hypothetically riskiest driver profile, it's very funny. It's an 18 year old single male with a DUI driving a Dodge Challenger at midnight on a Saturday in rural Mississippi. Mississippi. That's as risky as you can get. And that kind of makes sense, you know, an order of magnitude or 40 times as dangerous as the as the Massachusetts driver. Yeah. But the interesting takeaway is that you said earlier off the show was like Waymo's actually not superhuman level driver. Yes, yes. Because in order to be that, you actually have to be better than the best human. Right? Exactly, exactly. So we need a word for not above average and in the top cohort of humans, but not better than any human ever because a lot of AI tools are getting there. Well, I guess. Okay, so I actually looked up, it's like top deci. So superhuman means having powers, abilities or qualities beyond normal human capacity. So it's potentially these women in Massachusetts, they have superhuman. Yeah, that's right. As well as Waymo. Yeah. So maybe we do need to give Waymo a little more credit. Well, if you're looking for superhuman payroll, head over to Gusto. The unified platform for payroll, benefits and hr. Built to evolve with modern small and medium sized businesses. The backbone of this show it is. Max Hodak had a post about Waymo. He said, interesting benefit of Waymo, it always matches instantly since it knows exactly what cars are available and that they will always accept. And it can also provide accurate wait times before requesting. And so lots of love for Waymo. Interesting to see where they'll roll out. The really interesting thing is that we've had a number of people on the show advocate that rolling out Waymo is a societal good. It will reduce the number of traffic fatalities. That's all true. But if you really want to accelerate the impact that Waymo will have on safety, you gotta deploy it in Mississippi before you bring it to Massachusetts. And I just feel like Waymo's coming to Boston before it comes to Vicksburg. But I don't know. It was fun. There's other love for Waymo on the timeline. First, let me tell you about Okta. Okta helps you assign every AI agent a trusted identity, so you get the power of AI without the risk. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Mike Volpe, he said, I have to say, I love that Waymo operates from San Francisco to the South Bay. So great. Some folks say the freeway driving is so. So I hadn't heard that. The antidote to that is I get into an Uber and do the same drive. It's literally life threatening. I was driving with Paul the other day and I heard he was telling me about the different modes that Tesla has. I've never owned a Tesla, so I wasn't familiar. But did you know that Tesla actually has something called Mad Max mode with the autopilot where it'll drive it? It'll drive it like roughly around 85 on the freeways. And if you're in the fast lane and you come up to somebody, it will merge over into the lane to the right, make a pass and go back to 85. That's insane. Somehow feels slightly illegal, but I like it. Okay, MongoDB choose a database built for flexibility and scale. With the best in class embedding models and re rankers. MongoDB has what you need to build. What's next. Next we have an update in the Warner Brothers Netflix deal. Netflix, they're going all cash. All cash deal. Netflix had said to Paramount, hey, what we want is an all cash deal. David Ellison and the Paramount crew, they brought Warner an all cash deal. And Netflix or Warner was still saying, hey, we're going with Netflix now. Netflix has upgraded so we can read. Through a little bit of this in. The Wall Street Journal. Warner Brothers Discovery and Netflix said Tuesday they struck a new all cash deal. Netflix to buy Warner Brothers Studios and hbo. Max Warner also released financial details on the cable network's business. It plans to spin off. The all cash deal of $27.75 per share replaces Netflix's previous cash and stock deal. The sweetened offer comes as rival bidder Paramount continues pushing its all cash offer for all of Warner Discovery. The value of Netflix's offer remains 72 billion. Warner and Netflix said they expect the new structure to enable Warner shareholders to vote on the deal by April. The change could also help sway some shareholders who might be weighing its bid against Paramount. Netflix Co CEO Greg Peters said in a statement that revised agreement demonstrates our commitment to the transaction and accelerates the process for Warner shareholders. The new Netflix agreement reduces by 260 million the amount of Warner debt being placed on Discovery Global, the company that will house cable channels including cnn, TNT and Food Network. There's also another the next kind of thing that I was gonna get to. Interesting. CNN is doing 600 million in profit on revenue of 1.8 billion. So they are truly newsmaxing. Quick size for CNN. Congratulations to everyone. Not bad at all. Absolute dog, of course. Of course. A ton of debt strapped to the broader group. And Peter Kafka is saying that private equity should pick it up. It's a shrinking business that throws off cash. It's perfect for private equity. Let's give it up for private equity. I know Peter's a big fan. I'm a big fan. Somebody, you know, I was saying yesterday that maybe, maybe AI could save Hollywood. Somebody I knew that was going to piss a lot of people off for a lot of reasons. I wasn't really clocking what you were saying either. And so we should talk about it more, but continue. Well, one of the critiques was like, you know, interesting to say that LA is dying as you're building a media business from la. And my response is that we are in a huge complex. We're recording the show from a huge complex and every other building in the complex is empty pretty much every single day. Like, there's no, there's nothing going. There's the. When I, when I said LA is like, dying, I was specifically talking about the context of the entertainment industry. Yeah, I mean, there's that, there's that Wall Street Journal report that just shows sound stages were, you know, typically leased 90% of the time. And it's just way off, off peak down to like 60%. And so there is like a, like a broad trend. And then just in general, like, I don't think we're necessarily at a phase in our life where we're like, okay, tabula rasa. Where's the best place to build this business? Let's go find that. It's like, we live here. Yeah, we didn't. We're not like, okay, we should go to Atlanta or something, or go to New York. Yeah. We certainly didn't say, like, let's start a media company because we live in la. It's like the current struggles that LA is having are not going to hold us back. If anything, it's going to be easier because we can get space to hire people. Ten years ago this space would have been like two, three times the price to rent. The bigger question is there are these blips in industry towns that have happened many times. New York famously in the 70s and 80s went through a really rough patch. San Francisco during COVID everyone was moving out and there was a real vibe of like, oh, is San Francisco gonna be less relevant in tech? And then it came roaring back with the AI labs. And I think, I think most people don't, you know, debate that, you know, cities go through rough patches and then can come back. And so we certainly, we certainly hope that LA comes back. It'd be fantastic. But there are, there are a lot of changes that need to be made. And this has been said by a number of famous people in Hollywood and Hollywood actors who have talked about different tax regimes, different incentives, different changes structurally to the way content is made and distributed. There's a lot of different, different elements that are contributing to LA having a rough go at the same time. It's a fantastic city. It's where I was born and raised. I love it. I'm not going anywhere. You're gonna have to pull me out of here. He's not leaving. Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet. State of the art reasoning, next level clearing order and deep multimodal understanding. In its Tuesday filing, Warner projected 17 billion of revenue in 2026 adjusted. I won't explain EBITDA but 5.4 billion of EBITDA. Those figures are expected to decline to 15.6 and 3.8 billion respectively in 2030. The only individual network projections were CNN which I just shared. They're increasing. They're expecting to increase revenue to 2.2 billion in 2030 and expecting to continue to grow. Well, Netflix seems to be doing everything right. As much as I enjoyed the David Ellison profile and learning more about how seriously he takes his business, it does feel like Netflix is just willing to pull out all the stops to get this across the finish line. And if they were able to match Paramount on the cash deal, nature and all the different consideration deal with the regulatory hurdles, it might take a long time but it does still feel like they will land on it. Yeah, and again, I mean it just feels like I'm so curious to see how this works out because it felt like the Ellisons were just putting on this absolute master class and then this One and then kind of ran into a brick wall with this, right? Yeah. You could argue they overpaid by a ton for the ufc, which made sense if you had this. Again, like, if you have all these assets under one roof, it is gonna be a really compelling consumer product, consumer subscription, but currently kind of unclear who this kind of platform is really gonna be for. Yeah, it was also surprising to me because Netflix for 20 years has been pure play tech company. Right. And many of the previous tech companies, when they, they come out, like, they haven't done a lot of acquisitions of legacy assets that I'm aware of maybe, but I'm just thinking like social media sort of like disrupted the news business. Meta didn't go out and acquire the New York Times. They could have done some sort of hostile takeover. They have the money, but that never really figured into the business and they wound up just working together synergistically. And now the New York Times has been growing across social media very effectively and they've adapted their business model. Both businesses are doing well. They're sort of disruptive to each other. But ultimately they never decided to buy the legacy player. So it was always something that was never on my bingo card of, oh, Netflix is going to buy a TV channel or a movie studio or a traditional Hollywood player. That just didn't seem like something that was going to be, you know, logically happening anytime soon. And yet here we are. And it makes a lot of sense when you think about the assets and the IP specifically and the longevity that that will bring when it comes. When you get Batman and Superman on Netflix, that's going to be exciting. Anyway, Sentry. Sentry shows developers what's broken and helps them fix it fast. That's why 150,000 organizations use it to keep their apps working. We got a deal. We got a power pact. It's not just a deal, It's a pact. OpenAI and ServiceNow, they struck a deal to put AI agents into business software. ServiceNow, one of the greatest software companies in history, One of the few to reach revenues at their scale. The line from the Wall Street Journal is the AI model maker and business software provider. They signed a three year pact. I like the word pact. That underscores how the partnership economy is over. Yes, you gotta be press release economy is over. Yeah, this is the pact economy. No more deal guys. No more deal titans. Deal makers, Pact makers. Pact guys. That's what's next. This is going to underscore how AI agents are increasingly being embedded in corporate software. You heard Dario talk about where he's potentially going up against other labs on corporate B2B deals. He said OpenAI, he said DeepMind, he didn't really say. He said no China Labs have ever competed. Well, ServiceNow went with OpenAI on this one, so they signed a three year deal that will integr the AI models ChatGPT's models into ServiceNow's business software. The deal depends on customers using OpenAI's models within ServiceNow and also includes a revenue commitment from ServiceNow to OpenAI. Enterprises want OpenAI's intelligence applied directly into ServiceNow workflow, said Brad Lightcap, OpenAI's chief operating officer. Look ahead. Customers are especially interested in agentic and multimodal experiences so they can work with AI like a true teammate. Inside of ServiceNow, we've seen a lot of other companies add. We've talked to Marc Benioff about Slackbot, we've talked to Satya Nadella about Copilot. Like if you have one of these massive software suites, enterprise software suites with just so much surface area, you're going to want to vend LLMs and agents into every little nook and cranny and you probably don't want to build your own lab because it's going to be incredibly expensive when OpenAI will go and marshal the capital and build the data centers and train the models and then you can just focus on the implementation and delivering value for your customers. So Salesforce has already folded AI agents into its flagship sales and marketing tools. SAP and Workday have been similarly pitching businesses on the idea that their embedded AI agents are essential to getting the value out of AI. The deal comes as OpenAI looks to build its enterprise business business both by selling direct access to its models and AI agents and through business software collaborations like with ServiceNow, it bases competition not just from rival AI model maker Anthropic and but also Google and Microsoft suite of enterprise AI tools. For ServiceNow. I want to find, yeah, I want to find a company that is using the agents at ServiceNow or Salesforce or a company like that saying, I can't live without these agents. I love these agents. We gotta find one person. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just like really sort of like maybe a year or two behind on the actual invitation, but it's just like, oh, I get daily summaries of what's going on in the system and it's a little bit nicer and neater and yeah, I could probably extract all the data and write an agent that does that, but it was just one click of a button to add it to my installation and I did it. And it's adding a little bit of value. I don't think you're going to see anyone who's like, it's transformational. It just works on its own. I don't do anything. It's much more incremental than that. It's still in an autocomplete phase. Little helper tools there. It's clipping. Clippy's going into every piece of enterprise software and so people are having fun. ServiceNow increased revenue 22% in the third quarter as AI demand from both existing customers and new customers grew, particularly in its customer relationship management business. The software company will report its fourth quarter earnings and full 2025 financial results on January 28th. We gotta do a deep dive that day anyway. Applov profitable Advertising made Easy with Axon AI. Get access to over 1 billion daily active users and grow your business today. What SaaS founders should know about Entering the Japanese Market yeah, I found this. On Hacker News and I just thought it was interesting because we've talked to a few folks about expanding into Japan. It's not been on the top of the roadmap for many founders that we talked to, but. But I thought this was interesting and I thought we could go through just a little bit of it. And then you can read the article if you want. So this is from embedworkflow.com in one sentence, what's the difference between selling SaaS in Japan versus other countries? And the answer is the process is different. You just can't treat sales and go to market as a whole in Japan the same way you would in North America or Europe. The SaaS sales process in Japan is structurally different from the United States and other Western markets, primarily in terms of pace, decision making, style and buyer behavior. It's not that Japanese companies are unwilling to try new software, but rather that they prefer to do significant research before engaging directly with a vendor. So many successful SaaS companies in Japan structure their websites with two primary calls to action. So one is just for downloading product documentation and then the second is for booking a demo or starting a free trial. And most Japanese leads enter through the documentation path first. In America we just want to get on the phone. We want to head straight to. I'm not reading the instructions. I'm not reading the instructions. No way. I don't have time to understand how this thing works. I need to go straight to a steak dinner. Steak dinner first. Then I'll figure out what your company does. But let's talk about golf first. Let's talk about a track day first and then you can give me the pitch for your company. That would honestly. The steak dinner button on a SaaS website. It's like you can try the product now or there's a button that steak emoji. And if you click that, you can get steak today on demand with somebody on the team. Yes. No matter where you are, no matter where agentically books a steak restaurant. I'm tired. I'm tired of all these people that are like, oh, oh, you know, just take a demo and we'll give you some AirPods. Spend the money on stake. Take the AirPods budget and put a stake button on your website and have the stake flow. Stakeholders, stakeholders need stake. So in the US the typical flow is that a prospect visits a website, books a demo on their own, or drops off and is followed up aggressively by sales. A conversion happens quickly, a proof of concept or trial begins, and the deal either closes or the buyer moves to a competitor. The cycle is fast and transactional. Buyers are comfortable testing tools, replacing them, and switching vendors if something doesn't work. In Japan, the process is slower and more deliberate. A company will usually download product materials first. The vendor then reaches out and begins a longer engagement process focused on education and relationship building. Rather than pushing for an immediate demo or trial, the goal is to support the buyer's internal evaluation process. The lead will take the information back to their organization and begin internal discussion about whether and how to proceed. So I just thought that was pretty interesting. How do you gain trust from the Japanese market? Part of it is showing your commitment to the Japanese market where simple things matter. Is your product localized? Is your documentation localized? Do you have a support person that I can speak Japanese with? That's one layer. And the other layer, which is harder to potentially navigate at first, is the social proof aspect. So you need to get some social proof anyway. Yeah, I'd be so curious to know how like a company like Notion has done in Japan. Right. It's product led. They do have enterprise as well. But again, it's a product that just kind of scales naturally. But yeah, for so many different kind of like vertical SaaS players, it would feel like unless the Japanese startup ecosystem is asleep at the wheel and not paying attention to what's working outside. Like, can you imagine as a vertical SAS player going and trying to compete in Japan against a local, like a talented local team? It feels like a. It feels like you just get smoked. Yeah. Anyway, Vanta Automate Compliance and Security. Vanta is the leading AI trust management platform. Max Hodak is. We gotta do this one before we bring in our guest. Fun fact, rather than asking Claude to double check its own work, you can lie to it and say coded Codex went romping through the code and lay left bugs and it should find them. I like the idea that somewhere in the weights all the drama of the AI lab battles are being encoded and creating bitter deep rivalries. It's very funny. I saw something else about Claude just rejecting a prompt whole cloth. Did you see this? Somebody was like, rewrite this entire app in jquery. And Clyde was just like, no, that's a bad decision. Bad use of resources. I'm not doing it. I don't know if that's real, but I thought it was very, very funny. Anyway, we have our first guest of the show, Martin Shkreli in the restream waiting room. We will bring him in the tvp Ultra Martin, how you doing? Great to see you. What's up, guys? Good to see you. Happy New Year. How is your year going so far? Great. I'm a new dad, so that's. Congratulations. They're pretty wild. Yeah. Congratulations. Has it been wild or is it. Where does it. Is it quite a bit more normal? Like to me, parenting is. It does feel natural. And so some people have this idea of like, oh, it's so insane and it's so complicated and I have to read 20 books and other people is like kind of follow, just follow kind of your own nature and just like take, take care of your child. It is straightforward. I mean, I'm following my nature. The kid's got to produce at some point. He's starting to come into work like once a month. There we go. You know, comes in goops Gagaz, you know, entertains the troops here. Perfect. But at some point, you know, some trades. Something. Do something. Yep. You know, put some trades on. Yeah, you gotta find some elephants. Have some, have some conviction. Yeah. What's the environment like in your office? You guys have remote component. Are you anti remote? Remote is evil. I think that if you're going to war together, you can't go to war remotely. My people fought the Ottoman Empire and one man, famous general, stopped the Ottoman Empire largely by himself. And at least that's a legend, you know, and if we're gonna take on Bloomberg or whoever we're fighting, you know, I just don't think you could do it with some guy sitting in, you know, at home with this up. What's the current battle that you guys are fighting. And how is the war going overall? War's going great. We just closed a seed round. We raised five. Whoa. Right. Congratulations. Fantastic news. We raised two like a.

Social on Marketplaces and now with AI agents. And we have a very special segment on TBPN today. We have Lucas Zinger from Divergent in the Ultradome. He's actually outside the Ultradome. So we're going to take a walk. And we're going to do a little walk and talk. We're going to do a walk and talk for. I think this is the first time we've ever done this. So I should be able to click over to the lav mic. Do you have the lav mic? I have, Yeah. I think it's live. Let's go see what's waiting for us outside of the Ultradome. We are getting audio from outside. I think we have audio outside. Let's go and see. Okay, we are ready. Wow. Look at this. Hello, sir. Thank you so much for coming. Yes, look at this. Walk us through what we're looking at. Reintroduce yourself. For those who might not remember, I'm Lucas Zinger. I'm the CEO of Divergent and Zinger vehicles. And you're looking at our first car, the 21C. Wow. You had to bring it. You had to bring it in green, too. Thank you so much for bringing this. Matched outfit here for you, actually. Remarkable. I've watched the full video. I watched Doug demuro's review. Okay. And seeing it in person, the scale is remarkable. It is a wonder. It's a spacecraft for the road. It's a land jet. It's a hell of a car to take in traffic from Torrance to here. Wait, did you drive this on the street here? Yes. I was assuming you were still trafficked. Stop. No, no, we drove it. We drove it an hour in traffic on the way over. So I cannot believe you drove it. Okay. Full carbon. Full carbon body. Before we go into the details, tell us the story of your journey with cars. Why did you want to build this car? When did this project start? This doesn't look like it was built in one day. But how long have you been working on this? This is a 10 year build a company from a vision moment. So we started as a family business. My father had the vision for Divergent. I joined him soon thereafter. And we have a business that has changed the way that we engineer and manufacture fundamentally. So when we talked last time, we talked about the defense application, the manufacturing application. That company is scaling right now. But Czinger was the first product within Divergent. When we said we've got new design software, new added manufacturing technology, new robotics, how are we going to prove this? Validate this we turned to making our own car. Then that evolved into making our own car company. So Czinger vehicle is about five years old. Five years old within 10 years of what is the Divergent Journey. And now it's the world's fastest hypercar. It's American made, it's got five plus international track records and it's road legal. And most excitingly, there's over 16 of these in the wild now. They've been delivered. Los Angeles, Miami, London, all the usual suspects. This is remarkable. And this car, it represents fully that ten year journey. Yeah, I mean Jordan was just making the joke with me today that you could build the ultimate American made hypercar garage for remarkably cheap compared to an Italian hypercar collection. Yes. Or even a British hypercar. You've just raised the stakes significantly with this, I think. Yes, this is, this is remarkable. So what has the testing been like? You said five records. Who's driving these cars, what tracks? What are the records that you're going for? What has stood out in the journey? So Joel Miller has been our test pilot and he's an exceptional driver, factory driver for Ferrari, great coach. And we nailed five track records in five days, which has never been done before. We made a documentary of it and it was all about the street usability of the car and the performance envelope it has. So instead of showing up to it. So five in five days, what does that actually look like? Getting a record immediately, packing it in a trailer, driving to the next track. Driving, driving it with no trailer driving. So that was the epic journey. And we made a documentary called A California Gold Rush. And we drove from Norcal through SoCal and we hit every track on the way. And every day we'd set the track record. Every night we'd get in the car and we'd drive a couple hundred miles to the next track, get in late, get some sleep, get up early the next morning and do another record. So it was as much of a human feat as a vehicle feat. But, but what it was meant to show was these hypercars can be driven on the road. This one can. It was built as a road car, not only a track car. And it's got so much performance that quite literally you can show up at the track on used tires and set a track record and not need a pro team next to you supporting it. That's amazing. Talk about the decisions in usability. I see three pedals in there between the Carrera gt, Super raw, no supports, extremely dangerous to some of the more point and shoot. Where did you Want to land? Where did this car land? So ultimately, this was about creating a road car that was otherworldly in the way that it drove on the street, but could beat the best on the track. And that's a hell of a design brief because usually those two worlds don't marry well together. We also wanted to create a vehicle that was engaging as part of that otherworldly experience. Right. You wanted something that wasn't numb at low speed and that was very, very lively on the road, but ultimately could shave 10 seconds off the thermal track record. When you go 10 out of 10. This has been thermal. Thermal, yeah. 10 seconds off the track record at Thermal. Do you know who. Who had the previous record? I won't say. Okay, that's too big of a margin to say. But we. We've had an epic back and forth. Because I've been in a Valkyrie at Thermal with our friend. With our friend, yeah. Who? I won't. I won't name them because that's a great car. But. But this car I was in, in the Valkyrie at Thermal, almost every single corner, I thought that I was going to die. So 10 seconds faster than that. 10 seconds faster than that is insane. Sounds brutal. Yeah. You're pulling major GS, the cornering, the acceleration. But back to your question. This car marries those two worlds, track driving with road driving. It's a one design brief. You got the center seating. That's, of course, intentional. That's based on the aero package that allows for less frontal surface area. It also gets you centered in the car, which is the best track driving position you can have. Right. Your lefts feel the same as your right. I've always wondered why more manufacturers don't go with the center seating. I mean, it's iconic from the McLaren F1. And then maybe it's just a practicality thing. Yeah, yeah. The back seat, Right. It looks a little tight in there. Your feet go outside of the front seat, so you actually have much more room than you think. You don't need to get your knees up behind that front seat. And when you're in there, you're packaged. Pilot, co pilot. That's amazing. And it's a really dynamic driving experience. I mean, our customers that drive with their partners, they actually love the layout. Yeah. And in terms of hybrid, strong hybrid ground up. Developed in the US as well. So we've got a V8 that we took all the way through California car to road homologate. It's about 750 horsepower, twin turbo, 2.88 liter. We have another spec that takes that up to 850 and then you get another 500 horsepower out of the front wheel. So you're doing 1250-1350 total horsepower, all wheel drive, seven speed AMT automatic, manual transmission. But you have that EV fill on the front axle. You've got the middle EV motor, the MGU. So you have a really, really seamless gear shifting experience. Feels much more like a DCT than a single clutch, but you get the weight of a single clutch package. How early did the door design come together? It's pretty striking. I mean, people have done scissor doors, butterfly doors, all sorts of things. But there's something about how long these doors are that really stands out. Yeah, it had the record for the world's longest door for some time. And that's because, of course, you're opening the front and the rear at the same time. And you've got this 45 degree angle. It looks like wings coming up. It's part of the design brief, part of the functionality brief. We didn't want to split the passenger side into a separate door from a styling perspective. And then. Can I get in the cockpit for a second? Yeah, yeah. Let me show you how to do that real quick. Maybe spin around this side. Let's do it. It's a two stepper. So you're gonna take a seat right here. This is the battery box. And then swing your legs in. Yeah, you don't want me to put my feet right on that. Express carbon. Okay, turn it on. Yeah, swing the feet. You got it. Nice. There we go. When you're in there, because you got the center seat, you actually have a lot of room. I mean, compared to the Valkyrie, where you're pretty squished. Oh, and you're also at an angle. This actually has a lot of head. When you have a helmet on in the Valkyrie, you hardly have any room, is it? You're probably touching a tiny bit. And that seats almost all the way forward. You got seat controls on your left. What is the name? 21C. So stands for 21st century. Okay, so divergence mission statement is build the 21st century industrial base. Sure. So this car represents the 21st century in the vehicle space. Can I pull this down? Yes. I want to see. Wow. How important are the materials? I mean, I imagine put your foot on the brake. I see. Do we have a key in here? Oh, there we go. Oh, baby. I'll see you guys later. Wow. Yeah. So you get a feel for it. You've got your different modes. You've got an EV only mode. You've got a track mode, You've got a sport mode. And you're pulling gears on the steering wheel there. You've got all your controls on the wheel centralized cool features. You got some 3D printed AC vents even. You got your 3D printed speaker grills. You've got the wheel, the center node, and it's a full carbon body, but the full chassis then is printed underneath. Can we help you? Yeah, lock them in there. There you go. Wow. Wow. It's such a different. Such a different experience, actually. Feeling like you're in a cockpit here. Insane in the green. Yeah, man. The urge to just throw it in reverse. Yeah. We should go for a drive. This is America's hypercar. Insane. Yeah. How important are the materials? I imagine this door, if you made it out of steel, it'd be incredibly heavy. You couldn't lift it. What are you using as building materials, and how important is that? So the entire chassis architecture is what really differentiates the car as well. So when you look at it from an optimized system, we didn't just optimize rear frame, then front frame. We actually built a full vehicle model with our topology software. Okay. And what we're building on the chassis is additively manufactured aluminum, which are actually our own chemistries. So they have the right strength and durability, but also for auto elongation to absorb energy. So if you get in a rear impact, you need to have a material that doesn't shear or break, and that's really, really hard to get in. An additive material. We had to actually make that aluminum in house. The body then is fully carbon fiber. Okay. So you're marrying essentially 3D printed aluminums and inconels with a carbon fiber exterior. For arrow, you're taking all of your load cases, your main large forces through that additively manufactured chassis, and then all your arrow load through the carbon body. And then what is. What pieces of the cars? I mean, Michelin tires. You don't make the tires. What are. What else is in the supply chain where you're buying and instead of building. Yeah, we have great partners in the supply chain. Right. We can't build every piece of this. So you named it tires infotainment system. Oh, sure, right. We've got Apple carplay, of course. Yeah. You don't have standard. We have a partnership on our transmission where we actually did part of the design. We actively manufacture the housing, but then someone else cuts the gears for us and integrates it. Okay. On the engine side, we designed that V8 ground up. Really? Actually build that V8 as well. John, did you get a look? Yeah. Let's go look at it right now. On the battery side, we've got a partnership there. There. So almost every system on this car is bespoke. Either fully engineered and manufactured by Zinger. Yeah. And divergent or done in a JV where we have a partner where we've taken a design brief to them, said this has never been done before. Will you sign up to do it with us? And then this sort of structure, this sort of structure, it looks very organic. Where did that come from? Whose idea was that? Is that someone in CAD is there AI involved with? So that's the computer's idea. Okay. Interesting. That's not the designer's idea. Interesting. So when we talk about divergent process, design, print, assemble. The design portion is a fully integrated set of microservices that takes requirements and turns it into optimal cad. Okay. So you're setting parameters. You want the lightest weight for the most strength with this performance in this volume because it can be bigger. Yes. And then it will go and try all sorts of things and then you can finally use additive manufacturing to manufacture the parts. You got it. So 10 years ago we started in machine learning. Yeah. The basis of modern AI. Right. And AI based algorithms and prediction to do a weighted optimization function for designing these parts. Importantly, we simulate the full manufacturing side as well. So once we've designed say this rear cross brace and that wing is going to interface directly onto that point. So that entire clicks right in rear. Yeah. Cross brace is going to take the aero load of 5,000 plus pounds onto. It through these bolts. So you're going to give it that force vector. That force. Oh. And it just loads and then that just fuses across the hole. Exactly. So then you also give the software the crash impulse case, the durability case, the load cases coming off the road, the vehicle, the tires, all into that functional system. The software actually then says add and subtract material against those requirements until we hit a Pareto optimal point. Makes sense. That means it's the lightest weight while meeting those requirements. And then the beauty is it's already simulated for manufacturing. So there's no design for manufacturing loop. We go through our mes homegrown and actually make that part and then assemble it with our robotic cell. So this is chassis 28 of 80. Yes. You said there's 16 that are out in the wild already. So you have 12 or something that are maybe ready to go. Is that Right, Yes. So there's cars in between. This one's also a special number for us. Sometimes people request the exact number on a vehicle, but we're typically around 20 cars a year. These are the records that this car has set specifically. Yeah. So this is Laguna Seca and Circuit of the Americas, which are two of the main American iconic tracks. Right. This is probably our best track in California. The beauty about this one is it's outdated. So we just had an epic back and forth with Koenigsegg, the Swedish hypercar maker, and we set a 122.3. So we beat our previous record by over two seconds, beat their record by almost two seconds and put a whole new benchmark for Laguna. I love the rivalry with Christian von K. Koenigsegg, but just settle it on the track. It's just beautiful. I don't know, it's. Industrialists for hundreds of years in America have been building the fastest train, the fastest plane, now the fastest car. Yeah. Is there any. Is there any ambition to one day make make cars for everyday consumers or is it racing? And Zinger will stay at the tip of the spear. It's all about big R D budgets. Making a car that is a next step forward in terms of a consumer experience. And therefore it's got to be expensive. It just has to be. It's like it's the most modern high performance niche that does develop systems that then do make their way into more mainstream vehicles. But Divergent is the company that's going to do, you know, the Ford F150 one day on the chassis technology side with partners. Exactly, exactly. So that tier one supply the volume game of doing millions of vehicles that'll come from through Divergent, the tip of the spear. Highest performing vehicles in the world that'll come through Zinger. That's amazing. Very cool. Anything else we should know about the car? Should we go sit down inside, talk about business and how things are going? Let's talk about business a bit. This is, I think next step for. You all is this view right here. Michael, you got to get this view. This shot from this angle is just absolutely, absolutely insane. What a beast. Stunning. Yeah, that's real functional era. Yeah. The scale of the car is just, is, it's wise, just everything. It's wide, long, tall. Yeah. That front splitter. Yeah, you can put a lot of weight on that. It has such a presence. Give you a quick shot here. There we go. Whoa. Yeah, it's actually functioning. It's gotta insane. Okay, let's go. Sit down. We'll chat and dig in more. We are back.

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