Right. Market clearing order in balance. Come on, get up. We are surrounded by journalists. Hold your position. Drink1, Strike 2, Activate. Go. Golden retriever mode. Market clearing order inbound. I see multiple journalists on the horizon. Founder. You're watching TV. Today is Friday, January 16, 2026. We are live from the TVP and Ultradome. The temple of technology, the fortress of. Finance, the capital of capital. Capital. El Capital. De Capital. Let's tell you about Ramp times. Money baby Save both Easy use, corporate cards, bill payments, accounting and a whole lot more all in one place. It is the goat of fintech. A fintech goat. A bunch of news today. Lots of people dropping stuff on Fridays. What's the meaning behind that? I don't know, but we'll take you through it. Lots of AI news, lots of OpenAI news because there's new details, new discovery in the OpenAI vs Elon Musk lawsuit that's heating up. There's a whole bunch of scoops Greg was waiting for. Yes, for sure. For sure. There's a lot of crazy quotes. We're going to go through it all. Yeah. Because it's part of our job. We're going to go through both sides. We're going to do the Steel man for Sam. The steel man for Elon. Yeah. I would just say I have a lot of sympathy for Greg. This is like a night, you know, having your personal diary. It is sort of crazy. I mean, do we know it's his diary? We'll see. Elon's calling, framing it as a diary. I think you had the best take of the day so far, which is that this is the super bowl for Nick on X. Nick on X. Nik is having the best OpenAI's number one hater for three years. He's having a great time. He's having a great time. Anyway, let's take you through the linear lineup, tell you who we're having on the show today. Linear, of course, is the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprise workspaces on Linear are using agents now. And we will be having the co founder and CEO, the founder and CEO of Athletic Brewing. We got the Athletic Brewing beers here in the studio. We got a lot of them. Pat Grady and Sonia Wong from Sequoia Capital coming on their co authors of 2026. This is AGI. Then we have Sean Frank emergency podcast. They put ads in ChatGPT, so we're calling the God of ads himself, Sean Frank, the CEO of Ridge. And then Alex from Higgs Field's coming back on the show to give us an update. They just hit 200. Absolutely. The fastest growing. So we're very excited for our guests. But we have about 90 minutes here to lock in. Talk about the two sides of the Elon vs OpenAI lawsuit. So let's kick it off with the Elon should lose side of the argument. I'm going to be Steel Manning. Sam Steel Manning. Greg, they did nothing wrong. Elon's wrong. He needs to back. Do you want your helmet? I need the steel man helmet for the whole thing. It might be too much. Maybe let's put it on the turbo puffer. But we'll just let everyone know that we're Steel Manning like crazy. Put it on the puffer. I'll wear it. Okay, you can wear it. Before we do, let me Steel man some superintelligence cloud, specifically Lambda Lambda is the superintelligence cloud. Building AI supercomputers for training and inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. So, okay, Elon made a donation to a non profit organization. He got a tax write off on that donation. And that nonprofit, OpenAI, the nonprofit, it's now one of the best funded nonprofits in history and it's still focused on the original mission. OpenAI, the nonprofit, it still exists. It has just a tiny hundred plus billion dollar position in a for profit company. They're going to be able to do nonprofit stuff forever. Whatever they want to do. If they want to hire researchers, if they want to write white papers, if they want to train their own models, the OpenAI nonprofit can do that. It's funded. Elon donated roughly $38 million alongside other donors who put in 90 million. There's some debate how much Elon put in. I saw one report that was around 45. It's in the tens of millions of dollars. And he was a large. According to. According to OpenAI, they believe that. I think their sort of optimistic belief is that the damages would be $38 million if they lose the original donation. If they lose. But I'm arguing right now that they're going to win. They're going to win. The jury's going to say not guilty. OpenAI did nothing wrong and here's why. So Elon, yeah, he was a big donor. He put up tens of millions of dollars. But play out the counterfactual. It's entirely reasonable to assume that things would have played out exactly the same even if Elon was never in the picture, even if he never donated. Sure. I mean the office would have had to be a little bit smaller. You're working with 90 million instead of 120 million. But we've seen folks raise 90 million Series B's. We've seen folks raise $120 million Series C's roughly the same company. You know, you pay people a little bit less, you have a few, few less perks. The office snacks aren't as good. Maybe you skimp on the 45 pound plates. You just get the 10 pound plates. These things happen. So if Elon had never donated, maybe Sam would have just stepped up his donation. He put in 10, you know, maybe he goes and leverages something. He's a non profit club. Yeah, yeah, he put in 10. He could have potentially sold more stock that he owned, taken a loan, sold Property, put the McLaren F1 up for sale. That's another $20 million he could pour in. He could have filled that gap or he could have hit, he could have hit the road. He's a good fundraiser. He could have gone out and gotten money from a variety of people. Reid Hoffman, Peter Thiel, Dustin Moskovitz, all put in money. There are more tech billionaires in that crowd that could have written a $1 million check. So Sam could have gotten 34 $1 million checks and filled the gap. So it's not like if Elon didn't donate, he wouldn't have, like OpenAI wouldn't exist. Right. It's totally possible that everything would have been the same and that the Elon donations were not make or break for, for OpenAI. So Elon should lose this case because everyone around the table came to the same realization at roughly the same time about the goal of creating AI responsibly. Basically, scaling laws ensured that AI progress would require vastly more capital than could ever be raised through donations. At a certain point, if you need $100 million for a nonprofit, you can do it if you're aligned with some of the world's richest people in tech, like Elon, Peter Thiel, the other folks that I mentioned. On the flip side, if you need $100 billion or you need $50 billion like OpenAI has already raised in the venture markets, that's just not going to happen in the nonprofit sector. Except it could have. Because if Elon really believed in the nonprofit mission and really said nonprofit or bust, yes, I see the scaling laws. Yes, I agree. We an insane amount of capital to get to AGI. Well, guess who has an insane amount of capital? Elon. If he wanted to, he could have said yes, I'm staying with the nonprofit strategy and I'm going to put up the 50 billion. Every dollar that OpenAI has raised in the venture markets could have been a dollar donated by Elon Musk if he sold down all the positions now. It's crazy. Never going to happen. Doesn't make any sense. Obviously, we're pro. I think the nonprofit transition makes a ton of sense in the context of raising that amount of money. I think that's a reality. And truthfully, I think that everyone around the table agreed about that. One thing that seemed clear here is there were a variety of different paths, but clearly a lot of big personalities in the room, a lot of ego. And it makes sense that eventually that just kind of blew up. Yeah. And so even if you were going to keep funding the nonprofit, you're going up against Google. They have an economic flywheel that will provide the amount of capital required to advance AI, build massive. They're a hyperscaler. They're going to build massive data centers. They're not going to have a problem with this. Google was set up to make investments at this level. At 10 billion of capex. Google's not blinking. The shareholders are all thumbs up on that. Very different. Remember when Sam was texting Elon, I think this was in 2023, saying, like, it pains me to see you attack OpenAI publicly. I think we can both agree it's important that Google doesn't own AI. And that's been one of the only things that throughout this whole process, they've stayed in agreement on. Yes, yes. So they want to create a counterbalance to Google specifically. And Elon actually agreed with this as they were shifting from maybe the nonprofit's not the ultimate way to win this AI race, this AI battle this AI future. Because Elon agreed, according to Greg Brockman in emails that he said he being Elon, said nonprofit was def. The right one early on, the right structure at the beginning, but may not be the right one now. So according to these leaks, it seems like Elon wasn't always all in on a nonprofit. He was maybe open to the idea of a for profit. And of course, that was a fork in the road. Elon did actually have the money to continue supporting OpenAI's nonprofit. Would have been crazy, but technically could have sold down positions. But Elon clearly agreed that OpenAI should build a for profit, and that's why he wanted equity. He wanted to be CEO. He was interested in OpenAI joining Tesla. Tesla's a for profit. He wasn't saying, we're going to bring OpenAI over to Tesla and the whole thing's going to be a nonprofit. Clearly, Elon is no purist about nonprofit AI research. He runs XAI. It's a direct competitor to OpenAI. He started it as a benefit corporation, which meant it had an obligation to deliver environmental and social benefits. But after the merger with X, that benefit corporation status was dropped entirely. This whole lawsuit is clearly just corporate lawfare. And the battle should be fought out in the financial markets, in the App store, on the open Internet, not the courtroom. Let the best product win. Let the best AI model win. Let the best team win. And so let's wrap this court case up and let OpenAI go and compete it out. They're fighting a war on five different fronts. Let them. Let them build. Let them cook. Yeah, that's the. It's worth noting that this is what. This is the. This is what winning, like today is what winning looks like for Elon if he gets a. If he gets like the damages awarded and he gets 38 million. Yeah. He's like, nice. Yeah. I can fund Xai for a week or even 20 billion if he gets like some points in OpenAI. Right? Yeah. He's like, great. This didn't. This is not a material jump in my net worth. My influence or power. Yeah. Whatever he's looking for, this doesn't really get me one step closer to Mars. Right. It doesn't necessarily align. So the wind state right now is just being disruptive. Right. Basically buying. Buying XAI time, putting OpenAI in a position where they are trying to go public. Right. And they've got this massive high profile trial going on. The helmet is really adding a lot to this conversation. I love it. The chat loves it too. Jordan in a night helmet is what winning looks like. Anyways, thinking. Yeah. Let me tell you about Plaid. Plaid Powers, the apps you use to spend, save, borrow, invest in securely connecting bank accounts to move money, fight fraud and improve lending. Now with AI, we have fireworks today. Fireworks for Plaid. I love it. I love five. Gets me fired up. This. This kind of. This reminded me today of the deal rippling lawsuit. Like the actual win state for this, like, deal rippling lawsuit is just rippling, like, like being a somewhat of an annoyance. Right. Both companies are going to continue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no amount of money that's going to make Parker, like, happy. Right. But what. What will like, probably make him happy is just like making it harder for deal to go public. Yep. Right. Yeah. Did you see that line that apparently they were talking to Elon in one of these, like leaked emails and Elon's like I don't really care about money, but I do need, I do need $80 billion just handy in my back pocket for a city on Mars. It's like, it's like the most extreme being like, yeah, like I'm, I'm basically post economic. But there's like one more thing that I'm reaching for and it just happens to $80 billion more liquidity than anyone has ever had in history. And I just need it ready to go for when I land on Mars and want to build. I just need about 80 billion liquid. Just liquid, liquid. It would fix me. He says 80 billion liquid would fix me. In fact, even then I moved back to California because even if they're doing a 1% a year right, I can probably. Good. Okay, now let's argue the flip side. Elon Musk will win the OpenAI lawsuit. And before we tell you how and why Elon will win the OpenAI lawsuit, I'll tell you about Console. Console builds AI agents that automate 70% of it. HR and finance support giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets. So Elon will win the OpenAI lawsuit. And he should. And he should, he should win this. Judge Gonzalez Rogers already rejected OpenAI's motion to dismiss. OpenAI wanted to throw this thing out, and the judge said no. The judge said, I think there's plenty of evidence that something happened here. Yes, it's all circumstantial, but that's how these things work. OpenAI was trying to kill the case before the trial even started. They're trying to get rid of this thing, but it's clear that Elon is onto something here. Okay, just look at the emails. Just look at the emails. It's so obvious that the OpenAI squad was trying to fleece Elon and push him out without giving him a fair share. Elon said, guys, I've had enough. This is a direct quote from Elon, email. Guys, I've had enough. This is the final straw. Either go do something on your own or continue with OpenAI as a nonprofit. Otherwise, I'm out. I'm not donating anymore. You guys, if you're going to do the for profit, just go start a normal company and wind this thing down. And that makes a ton of sense. It was an open invitation by him to just go build a traditional. And this is part of, part of the trial. Part of the trial and in this proceeding that I'm interested in is like finding out why they didn't just do that. Yeah, it's not like Sam and Greg couldn't have been like, cool. We worked on a non profit for a while. How do we set up a C corp? How do we set up. How do we set up a Sam? Sam's like, oh, I own like a couple points of stripe. Yeah, I think they have something called Atlas. You can just make a C corp. Maybe he forgot a few clicks. Maybe he just forgot. Oh, if I only remembered about Atlas. If there was, if there was like a very, very specific reason, like the nonprofit had developed some IP at that point, that meant that starting over or having to rebuild a team or whatever factor meant that that was like going to set them back years. Yes, that's a big deal. Yeah. And realistically, even you can't. There's no indentured servitude. You can't keep nonprofit employees working there. Why is the horse with a workhorse at OpenAI? Ilya Sutton Horse butt Clea was the workhorse at OpenAI. And you needed him to keep the excitement. Keep working. He developed a ton of the foundational technologies at OpenAI. And if he wanted to work at a nonprofit and you say, hey, we're leaving to go do a for profit, come over here. Who knows if he's going to come? And that applies to tons of different researchers that were instrumental in the development of what ultimately became ChatGPT and GPT 3 and 4. And so. So Elon gave them an invitation. Just go out and build a traditional venture backed company. Maybe I'll invest, maybe I'll be involved, maybe I won't. But at least we'll have a clean slate to start from. It would have been trivial to set up a new entity. As we discussed, you could start building a team and then you run the classic venture playbook. But Sam told Elon that he remained, quote, enthusiastic about the nonprofit structure. That was enough to get Elon to donate more. But OpenAI wasn't all in on staying in nonprofit mode. They were on the cusp of restructuring OpenAI and taking the $10 billion investment from Microsoft. See the reality of modern philanthropy, it's not fire. And forget big donors like Elon in this case do have specific intentions and conditions attached to the gifts. It's not like he's just throwing 20 bucks in the Salvation army donation box around Christmas. This is 30 something million. If you give that to a university and you want a building, they need to build that building. They probably need to build it to your specifications, even if you want to. Put your name on it. Yeah, they might even put your name on it. And you can dictate these things in a nonprofit donation, and you can ask that the donation is contingent on those results. You can pursue specific directions. He has every right to demand results. Yeah. And meanwhile, during this whole period, Greg is writing to himself allegedly, that he cannot say, we are committed to the nonprofit. Don't want to say that we're committed. If three months later we're doing B Corp and it was a lie, and then later saying, can't see us turning this into a for profit without a very nasty fight, his story will correctly be that we weren't honest with him in the end about still wanting to do the for profit just without him. Yeah. Before we continue our defense of Elon Musk, let's tell you about Cognition. They're the makers of Devon, the AI software engineer. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. So a big part of this, if and why Elon is going to win, why he should win, is that you can't just have corporate structure, remorse, OpenAI. You can't pull the plug on promises made OpenAI's own certificates of incorporation. Talk about creating a company quote exclusively for charitable purposes with the technology being intended to benefit the public. What's exclusively charitable about raising venture to build a subscription app with ads? That's not charity. Why? Why are you doing that? Elon's right. Not only should Elon win this case against OpenAI, he will win this case. It's simple. A bunch of people, bunch of San Francisco elite tech guys, their fancy cars promised to build AI for Humanity. They took $38 million from one of their co founders based on that promise, then turned around and built a $500 billion for profit empire with Microsoft. It's a straightforward bait and switch story that will play well to 12 regular jurors in Oakland. And so that's the case. I mean, this is going to be the big challenge, finding 12 regular people. In Oakland extremely offline. How illegal is it to try to be on a jury? Extremely. Stop trying to get on the jury. Stop trying to get on the jury. Look, I said this. I'm going to vot. Yes. I'm going to vote in favor of whoever has the higher ARC AGI score. Okay. I'm just pro AI progress. Yes. Yes. I don't care at all about who wins. I just want better models. You just want better AI? Yeah. Whoever will build, whoever's scaling faster. Well, then I think you go with OpenAI. They have 50 billion in the bank. Dan in the chat's ready to Be a juror. We got to get somebody in the chat. Somebody in the chat. Got to get. Yeah, just live tweeting, get on in the corner while you're in jury. Just like, hey, guys. Yeah, in the chat. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, this is incredibly dramatic. We're going to hear a bunch of crazy storylines, learn a lot about the internal mechanics of both the elon Empire and OpenAI's world. But at the end of the day, OpenAI is signaling to investors, hey, the max damage is going to be 38 million, something like that. They did say it could be more. It could be more. Of course, it could always be more. It does feel like it won't be existential and it feels like it's more of a vibe war than maybe a true economic war. I mean, you could go back and argue that Elon should get pro rata equity at what it was effectively like a pre seed round that was done as a nonprofit. And that's 38 out of 120 that was raised in the nonprofit, something like that. So you give him a. Is there any precedent for a company going for a blockbuster IPO while having this like, lawsuit that is really going at the, like, foundation of the entity itself? Right. You can imagine a company going public where they're in some process, legal process, with a former executive or a specific customer or even a lender on some. I can't think of any deal. I can't think of anything this big ever happening. But OpenAI is a unique company and if anything, it's going to draw a lot of attention to the company. And yeah, it's interesting from the retail investor crowd, I think they're still going to be happy to be in this company even if this is all not settled. But it's really a question of is Wall street going to be on board? I think Wall street will underwrite it as there's a potential settlement that could be in the tens of millions, it could be in the billions. But at the same time, you just calculate an expected value, take that off the valuation that you've built up. And if you're bullish on the long term value and cash flow of the business you buy anyway, I think that's sort of what happens. Tyler. Okay, so I've been reading through some of the documents and so I just want to add some other details, please. So one thing is, I think I'm reading through, you can actually see the arguments being made. One of them is from the defense of OpenAI and that Elon actually didn't directly donate to OpenAI. He was basically indirectly through a donor advised fund through OpenAI's fiscal sponsor, YC. And so because it's not direct, the idea of the specific charitable purpose doesn't actually hold up and that it actually just defaults to OpenAI's. Yeah, because you donate to one entity and then that entity would have to make that claim. So their direct communication doesn't necessarily pull as much weight. And then so there's like, there's a bunch of pages about the history of like how you actually define these things. So it seems like it's going to just come down to extremely esoteric legal definitions of trust. Well, I think we're out of steel man mode. Jordy, of course, dons the steel man helmet whenever he's trying to steel man an argument. We thank you for putting up with our shenanigans and our props. Let me tell you about Vibe Co, where D2C brands, B2B startups and AI companies advertise on streaming TV, pick channels, target audiences and measure sales, just like on Meta. And speaking of ads, there's ads in ChatGPT. I liked Raghav in the chat saying they're putting ads in ChatGPT to help fund the trial. Oh, sorry, that was actually Dave. But Raghav did say OpenAI is nothing without its lawsuits, which I think is very funny. Anyway, you want to know, let's go. Through some, let's go through some of the leaks, let's go through some of the ad details. We also have Sean Frank from Ridge joining to break down the ad landscape, whether he will be advertising ridge wallets in ChatGPT anytime soon. Yeah, part of the last thing I would say there is part of OpenAI's defense is that through their actions they've created one of the most well capitalized foundations in history. Right. And I think that they're going to continue to lean on that. Novo Nordisk has a foundation themselves focused on biomedical research. And it's like it has. The estimate is that they have $167 billion. Okay. So that's why we're using the term one of the best funded. Because it's possible that the OpenAI nonprofit might not be the best funded in history. Although if the stock continues to rip, they will probably become the best funded in history. Well, there's a whole bunch of leaks news in the timeline. There's so many documents that hit the timeline that it brought down all of X and X actually crashed because so many people were logging on to read The Brockman files. Yeah. And there's one more quote that's worth reading through, which is that from the Greg files from Greg Gates. Another realization from this meeting is that it'd be wrong to steal the nonprofit from him to convert to a B corp without him. That'd be pretty morally bankrupt. Yeah, he's really not an idiot. Yeah, I mean, but that sounds like, you know, they were, like, it would be wrong to do that and by their admission, like, they would argue that they didn't steal it from him. The funny thing here is, like, the. And again, I love Greg and I feel bad that this is all coming out, but his very millennial coded writing, Brockman further wrote under the heading, our plan quote, it would be nice to be making the billions. Okay, I didn't see that one. That's a funny one. I do think that there's a very odd wrinkle where Elon didn't invest in the for profit when any of those rounds were going. Like, the ships were so big, thoroughly burnt to a crisp, that even when the new for profit was doing the round, he was not. There's at least we haven't seen a lot of emails or evidence saying, like, whoa, don't go with Microsoft. Like, at least give me right of first refusal. Let's do this at Tesla, and I'll be the financier and I'll take the equity. Like, I'm bullish on this. And, you know, you don't have to. I don't know how much that plays into the actual court case, but it is interesting just seeing like. Like once the ships were burned and the bridges were burned and the paths started to diverge, they never really resolidified. And you would think that if you wanted to continue, you would try and build a position one way or another, get some cap table ownership. It is odd that we're in a situation where Elon has zero equity in the OpenAI for profit. There were clearly many opportunities to get exposure, but again, bad blood. So who knows? Maybe at least Greg didn't go in front of Congress and say, I'm just doing this because I love it, because that would make these other notes on. It would be nice to be making the billions. Yeah, but. Oh, yeah, for sure. But the other interesting thing is that. Do we know where Sam Altman sits in terms of equity? It's been going back and forth. There isn't a number, but in one of the documents, I lost it, but it said he had indirect exposure via yc. Yeah. Into the for profit as well. Yes. Okay, so look through exposure there. But then in terms of like an actual grant, is there a number that's been thrown around? To my knowledge, nothing has been shared publicly other than the sort of idea of him getting around 7%. Okay. Okay. But yeah, that still feels low for co. Founder of a. You know. No, but that was happening. That's like. That's like a lot of happened by that point sense. But, you know, it's just like the Mark Zuckerberg or the Bill Gates or the, you know, or the Jeff Bezos scenario. I mean. Yeah. If anything, these. Yeah, these files make a lot of Elon's kind of antics, like, more understandable. Like, he's been the one saying that they're morally bankrupt. And here they just straight up say pretty morally bankrupt to steal the nonprofit from him. Yeah. Like. Yeah. I don't think anyone ever expected that language came out that was this specific about their moment to moment thinking during that point in time. Yeah. What's the phrase that Elon uses? Scam. Defaultman. Scamule. Scamule. Defaultman. The timeline is really so stupid. The portmanteaus. But I mean, one thing that is real is that it's very clear that at some point the core OpenAI team was like, it's either like Elon as CEO, financial backer, like, complete control. Like Greg Brockman said, this is the only chance we have to get out from Elon. Is he the glorious leader that I would pick? We truly have a chance to make this happen financially. What will take me to 1B? Which is interesting because, like, there are definitely people that have been taking to 1B alongside Elon with Elon in the glorious leader seat. Like, there are people on the Tesla train, There are people on SpaceX train where truly, like, they are completely hands off. Elon is the glorious leader of those companies. They don't have any control over Elon, but Elon has given them effectively billions and billions through either their direct work with the company or their investment in the company. Like, there's a whole bunch of ways that those two things could actually be very compatible. Yeah. But it would be weird, especially if you want more of an egalitarian organization, more of an equal board, more of a. Well, you look and you look at the. You look at the run that Sam has gone on. Yeah. And you can imagine a situation where they're sitting at a table and saying, this boardroom ain't big enough for the two of us. Yep. Right? Yep. And it really feels that way. Big egos. Yeah. Sam notoriously is able to draw in capital using many of the same sort of methods that Elon has. Yeah, I do think the financially what will take me to 1B? That's just a good question to ask. Everybody needs to be asking themselves this. Yes. This is something that should be taught in grade school really. I see people on Instagram reels all the time asking this question. Alex Hormozi, you know, makes reels about this. He's asking himself this question. The only other question is why aren't you asking yourself that question? You should, you should also get on 11 labs, build intelligent real time conversational agents. Reimagine human technology interaction with 11 labs, baby. Continuing with the timeline, a Federal judge denied OpenAI's motion for summary judgment. The case is going to trial and Tyler's moving to Oakland. Oakland, East Bay. Should we read through some of Alex Heath's coverage in Sources News and talk. About a scoop athlete that really given Scoop. I call him Scoop God really given Kylie over at Core Memory. I mean these two are just going head to head, right? Yeah, yeah. It is a knockout drag out fight for scoop athlete of the year but they're both doing great stuff and Alex read through thousands of Pages in Musk vs Altman so you don't have to. We'll go through some of the summary here. There's some news about Ilya Sutskever. Ilya had early concerns about treating Open Source AI as a sideshow in 2022. OpenAI's leaders seemed quite concerned about the prominence of Open Source the Open Source lab Stability AI. We don't talk about stable diffusion that often anymore, but I believe Stability AI was the team behind that. Right. Imad Mustach, I believe runs it. Sutskever voiced his worry over text with Murati and others. Sutskever My trepidation around Open Source is that we're treating it as a sideshow, eg def not going far enough to really hurt stability. So they're not taking it seriously. And if Open Source takes off, everyone could standardize on that. Vergov says bro, scooping harder than a Ben and Jerry's employee. Let's go. This is good. This is good. Alex, he's scooping harder than a Ben and Jerry's employee. We're gonna use that for now on. This is fantastic. Fantastic Marathi. Mira said we're missing the options standard. Mira is the real winner here. Yeah, she's winning today simply because the attention has shifted away from a good number of people leaving their own co. Founder Exodus Drama firings who knows what's happening, but good to have the narrative shift and the vibes move on to OpenAI versus Elon Musk. So Miram Moradi said, we're missing the opportunity to set standards with this massive growing group of developers. People are hungry to build things and we should lean in and bring our tech to as many people as possible long term, maximize our chance of maintaining lead, reducing competition. But if we do everything to get this in a couple of weeks at any cost out, because we heard stability is open, sourcing a similar model, that's not in line at all with my motivation. So reducing competition, never something you want to see in discovery, always something you want to see in a pitch meeting with a vc, but you usually don't want to put it in writing. OpenAI leaders were divided over early investor Reid Hoffman's decision to start a rival AI lab, Inflection. And Reid Hoffman's interesting because he was one of the big early donors, I believe maybe 10 million, something like that, in the millions. And he has not joined the lawsuit. He has not jumped in and said, hey, I need, I need equity in OpenAI. I'm also wrong to like, like Elon now. In order to make the claim that Elon's making, you need a lot more correspondence, a lot more proof of, you know, misleading around the donation. And I don't think Reid necessarily has that. But also he doesn't seem to be saber rattling about it. So there were already. They were also. Already. They were, they were also already considering prohibiting investors from backing competing labs from an October 2022 exchange. Sutzkiver. I guess I just felt betrayed by him founding a direct competitor while simultaneously telling me, quote, I could not possibly imagine you'd find it objectionable. And this is Inflection AI. Of course he'd find it Objection. Inflection AI, which was ultimately sort of like acquired by Microsoft licensing deal. Was that Mustafa Suleiman's company? I think Inflection Altman. Here's how I'd summarize my thoughts on this. Pros. He supported us in a moment when no one else would. And it was pretty existential. Okay, so we're learning more about the existentialness of certain donations when they came in during the OpenAI nonprofit era. There are times when if somebody didn't come on, come in and write a check, it would have been very, very rough for them. And Sam says Reid helped out at a key moment. I think OpenAI would have been pretty effed if he hadn't stepped up. Also, he was instrumental in getting the first Microsoft deal done and has generally been quite helpful with Microsoft related stuff. And he's generally a good board member. Cons he's very motivated by collecting status although I personally think he cares much more about OpenAI than inflection. He was blinded enough by the startup of being able to call himself the co founder of a company. He made an uncareful decision. Also at this point I think, I think at this point OpenAI has the leverage to ask for a soft promise for new investors not to invest in competitors. But only a select few companies ever get to do that and we heard stories of this during one of the bigger fundraisers where even Glean was targeted as something that they didn't want their investors to also invest in. They wanted you to be open AI ride or die of course. Tons of fun said I'd like a basket of labs actually I'm going to invest. I would like broad based exposure. I would like exposure. And so I'm doing SSI and thinking machines that I'm doing anthropic too. And I'm also on the board of Meta and I'm also investing in OpenAI and XAI. You got to get a little taste of all of them. Brockman chimes in. He says oh also an aside after talking to Sam Altman, I'm planning to meet Patrick Collison tomorrow and Demo DV3 will ask if he's interested in participating in the tender under the condition of not investing in AGI big model competitors. So we talked about the Brockman diary. Well yeah, the funny thing is he must like I'd find it hard to believe that he's not didn't get to 1 billion just off of Stripe. Obviously Stripe was much smaller back then, but Greg was a CTO of stripe from 2010 to 2015. Stripe was founded in 2010. He was there for certainly longer than a four year vest. So who knows. But we don't know about his consumption habits. He might have been selling off Stripe Equity as fast as possible. He might have been using shares to pay for coffee. It's like saying hey, I'll give you a forward contract. I'm losing shares if you give me a free cup of joe. Yeah, yeah. Satya Nadella was worried about Microsoft's position in AI when he started looking at OpenAI. Stripe was in 2017, Stripe was valued at 9.2 billion. Bunch of wee lads Stripe. From Satya Nadella's deposition, the question to Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft, did you feel that Your progress was moving more slowly than you had liked. And the answer Satya Nadella says, I mean always as a CEO of a company, I feel my job is to sort of be dissatisfied with the rate of progress at all times. And so yes would be the answer. Which is both in the absolute sense, which is can we build products that are more capable in any particular domain? And also, you know, vis a vis competition. There were others achieving things that we looked at and said, hey, that's great. And also how can we make sure we're competitive with with it? And so Satya Nadella was obviously motivated to invest and now he has a huge stack of OpenAI shares ready to rock. Also, Satya Nadella almost wrote a book about an AI about AI called An Inflection Point. I think he definitely should write that book. That sounds amazing. According to an exhibit filed in the case, it was co written with Marco Ion City and was in development in 2023 from the first chapter on Wednesday, August 24, 2022, with the Pacific Northwest summer showing all of its beauty, Bill Gates hosted a dinner at his home in Lake Washington, just a few miles from Microsoft's campus. No longer a Microsoft board member or even Microsoft's largest shareholder, Bill remained the iconic co founder and trusted advisor of the company's senior technical leaders. Satya suggested the gathering, which included Chief Technology Kevin's Chief Technology Officer Kevin Scott and a handful of top researchers. Food and drinks would be served, but the main entree was a hush hush demo by OpenAI co founder Sam Altman on a forthcoming release of ChatGPT, powered by GPT4, an AI built on large language models. Bill had long encouraged researchers to develop a truly accomplished AI assistant, but had voiced his skepticism criticism about this particular approach. This sounds like I'm listening to an. Audible thank you CrowdStrike. Your business is AI. Their business is securing. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches, baby. That's right, CrowdStrike. So that would be fun. I hope that book gets published. It'd be fun to have some of those little stories about. We don't, I don't feel like we don't have enough oral histories of AI who was in the room at what time. I feel like there's a whole series of books to be written about OpenAI. I know that they're writing, they've written a few, but most of them are sort of these like skeptical drama pieces. I'd be much more interested in two different books. One would be the technical histories, like exactly what researchers were doing what, at what times? And also, I want to know the first feeling that was going through Ilya's head and what was the vibe when he said, like, I'm hitting the button and I'm running the training run. What would you think? You're just describing Doorkech's book. Yeah, but the Scaling Era, an oral History of AI 2019-2025. So. Yes. And he interviews Ilya. Yeah, yeah. So I hear you on that. Being a great tour of AI progress across labs. Yeah, I think I'm talking about within a single lab. Within a single lab. You're in the room account of, you know, narrow it just to like the GPT models. And so imagine the Scaling Era, but. Just for the progress, basically acquired episode. Yeah, there's that. I mean, isn't there news that there's a book on demoscience Hassibas, that's coming out about DeepMind? That's going to be fantastic. It's written by Sebastian Malabi, one of the goats of business writing. He wrote the Power Law, all about the history of Silicon Valley. I know that book is going to be incredible, but. So I'd be very interested in the research side, how the research developed, who was doing what, and then I'd also be interested in the financial side. I want to know, okay, how did this SPV actually get done? What were the terms on this? Who was jumping in, in this round at what terms? Who are they talking to? Who are their LPs? Were their LPs skeptical? We've talked to and seen a little bit of the other side of that. And then layering in all of this information from the deposition. Totally, totally. And some of this evidence that's come out that we read. And so there are a few writers that will take different cracks at the OpenAI story. I think the definitive book probably has yet to be written, but it will come. And hopefully Satya Nadella can play a role in that because he's such a key figure in the full story. Vanta Automate Compliance and Security. Vanta is the leading AI trust management platform. I like a foghorn. Microsoft beat out Amazon when it initially started working with OpenAI. Elon Musk was opposed to working with Jeff Bezos and rose the following. In an early email to Sam Altman, he said, I think Jeff is a bit of a tool and Satya is not. So I slightly prefer Microsoft, but I hate the marketing department. Altman responded that Amazon had started, quote, really dicking us around. Yeah, such a crazy line. He's like, I don't like his taste in champagne. Have you seen what that guy drinks in St. Barts? It's unacceptable. He should be taking it up another notch. And the sparklers, it's all, it's just over the top. Very vulgar. He knew he was going to get mocked. Yeah, yeah, true, true. Yeah, I like it. I like a Tesla tequila over St. Bart's champagne bathtub. I don't know. Credit to Jeff. He of course, was a bit more locked in during that era. So the upside on Microsoft's initial 1 billion dollar investment in OpenAI was cap to 500 billion. Hopefully they hit that gap. From a filing written by Musk's lawyers in November 2018. After dinner with Sam Altman, Scott told Nadella that OpenAI's new corporate structure offered both, quote, a commercial vehicle for monetizing OpenAI IP and investment returns capped at 500 billion. That's not bad. A 500x bagger is going to move the needle for Microsoft for sure. Altman claimed the nonprofit would eventually benefit because though OpenAI has yet to make a single dollar in returns, if OpenAI ever does get to 500 billion in returns, the balance over that goes directly to the 501C3. That's exciting. Microsoft's board initially approved a capital investment of 2 billion, but ultimately decided to limit its initial investment to 1 billion in the hopes that a smaller Investment would press OpenAI to commercialize. Satya. Hey, we got it. We can't give them too much. Let's put bit a little fire under them. Let's make sure that they're, they're thinking, thinking about dollars, dollars and cents. Well, you see what you've seen. You've seen what happened with thinking machines. Give somebody 2 billion. Maybe less pressure to commercialize, maybe, maybe more money on weight. On weight. Weight racks. Yes. Yes. In exchange for its investment, Microsoft received a convertible limited partnership interest and rights to OpenAI's profits, with returns capped at 2,000 of its $1 billion investment. Microsoft CFO noted in an internal email that the cap is actually larger than 90% of public companies. And the limit on Microsoft's profits is not terribly constraining nor terribly altruistic. In fact, it was a good investment at Microsoft's request. True, OpenAI agreed to keep any mention of Microsoft's promise 2000% of return on its investment out of its public announcement. Imagine going to some someone and pitching them, oh, we'll give you a 2000% return and then actually delivering it. What a crazy, crazy story. Gusto. The United platform for payroll benefits and HR built to evolve with modern small and medium sized businesses. Get on it. Make. Stop making excuses. The second update to Microsoft's partnership with OpenAI in 2021 included another $2 billion investment that wasn't reported and came with a lower upside. This is also a filing from Musk's lawyers. In March of 2021, Microsoft quietly invested another $2 billion in OpenAI. Neither OpenAI nor Microsoft publicly announced the investment, which was subject to a lower 6x return multiple. In place of its 2019 license to a single OpenAI model, Microsoft secured rights to commercialize any OpenAI model developed during the term of the agreement except AGI, facilitating its commercial use of OpenAI's IP. Microsoft was permitted to embed up to 10 of its employees on site at OpenAI. That's interesting. Anticipating increased product commercialization, Microsoft and OpenAI agreed to share any resulting revenue. Just three months later, in June of 2021, Microsoft released GitHub Copilot, its first product incorporating OpenAI's technology. Well, there are many, many more scoops in this piece by Alex Heath over at Sources News. So I encourage you you to go subscribe, go sign up for his substack and read the full thing for yourself because there's a lot of interesting stuff going on. But we should move on to the timeline. There's so much more news. Let's find some post to run through. Everyone is having fun with financially. What will take me to 1B sitting on the edge of the bed. I love it. Feet up. You got it. You got to be asking yourself this. It's just so clear. This could have saved OpenAI from Elon. And it's a diary with a lock on it. I think the diary framing is like woefully wrong. That's probably the worst part of this whole thing is because most of the, most of the thoughts that Greg's putting out are completely reasonable. It's like, yeah, we shouldn't screw this guy over. Do we really want him to have complete authority? These are all reasonable things to, to be thinking out loud. It's just when you write them down, they get recontextualized in the courtroom. And then the fact that it's framed as a diary. Very questionable. Probably. I don't think it makes Greg look that bad because he wasn't ultimately. It's not like he was like secretly Sam's puppet master. No, no, no. And a lot of this went back and forth and there were lots of opportunities for both sides to yield. It was like a long ongoing Negotiation, but everyone's picking their sides. Owen Sparks says case closed. Elon has open AI dead to rights. Based on this quote here. He wrote, can't see us turning this into a for profit without a very nasty fight. I'm just thinking about the office and we're in the office. And his story will correctly be that we weren't honest with him in the end about still wanting to do the for profit just without him. So bad blood. That's a bad one. That's a bad one. We will see. Anyway, we should move on from all this. Are there any other things in the timeline that we should run through here? Elon says they stole a charity, plain and simple. They're really on the. For all the jurors. They're really going to have to. I imagine you get if it's Oakland, 12 people on the jury, I guess, like four of them are driving Teslas. They're really gonna have to go check all the cars, make sure they don't have the bought this before Elon went crazy. Yeah. Bumper sticker on. They're gonna have to throw those. Those candidates. Well, they should also throw out any jurors that show up in Koenigseggs because they're probably in the Koenigsegg owner meetup and there are cars and coffee and they're like. Well, yeah, I mean, like, I don't really like. I don't like electric cars. Okay. I do have a bias against electric cars. I need a V12 and anyone who drives a V12, I'm gonna give them some leeway. I'm gonna give them some leeway. The thing about a Koenigsegg owners meetup is that a lot of them are probably not driving the Koenigsegg because they don't work that well. They're not reliable. Frequently, it's been frequently reported that they're not quite reliable. The one day you get it to. Start cars and copies. There's paparazzi there taking pictures of you. Just one of the chances. Seriously, it's the worst luck. The one day. The worst luck. The worst luck. Anyway, Sentry, good luck for your systems. Sentry shows developers what's broken and helps them fix it fast. That's why 150,000 organizations use it to keep their apps working. Elon Holmar's catalog was asking ChatGPT. Yeah. What what ChatGPT thinks. And it says, if I were grading this purely as an analyst, not as an OpenAI model, the documents are legitimately bad. Brockman notes not ambiguous. I was asking, I was asking Claude about this and it was very funny because it does. You can't not read into it like you're talking to someone at Anthropic because it's taking shots at both of them being like, oh, well, like, you know, Elon has XAI and that's a for profit, so he's a hypocrite. And like, maybe that's just objectively true and the model's just, you know, accurate. But it's funny just reading it in Claude's voice being like, Claude's sitting there being like, I don't like either of these companies. Anyway. One more post. One more post. Elon said yesterday, we talked about this yesterday, he was quoting the Kalshee odds on his case against OpenAI and he's what are they? I've lost a few battles over the years, but I've never lost a war. I think that what this comes down to, though is like, what is the same thing as, like, what is winning the AI race actually look like with China? What is, what is Elon winning against OpenAI? So the odds now it's 68% chance will Elon win his case against OpenAI? That's up from 34% back in January, January 14th, just a few days ago. And so this new trove really did move the market, at least on Kalshi. So we will see where this goes. If the U.S. district Court in Northern California sides with Elon Musk in Musk vs Altman before January 1, 2027, then the market results to yes, of course, this doesn't take into account appeals, which will obviously happen. And there's always the chance that there's a settlement before this. Although I think it feels like we're just past all that and we are fully in. It's going to trial, there's going to be some drama, there's going to be some courtroom sketches. So get ready because it's going to be, it's going to be beautiful. And I wonder who they're going to call to testify. A whole bunch of people will be. Will be on the stand, presumably Joe Wiesenthal. What's he saying? He is highlighting Goldman raising 16 billion in record Wall street bank bond sale. Joe Wiesenthal says right here, right here, here. Toss to me, toss to me. Joe. Finally some good news. Huge congrats to Goldman Sachs. I've been following them a long time. The whole team and culture is so impressive. I can't wait to see where they're going and what they do Next. Yes, yes, yes. Goldman's really just getting started. They are. They're really just. Today's really just day one. It's day one. It's day one for Goldman. Willmanitis. He thinks of Goldman as kind of the ideal firm. Right? He has this idea of firm versus company. Yes, yes. Where the company is just the people. The firm is the core ethos. Sure, sure, sure. And Goldman is kind of the perfect firm. There are some absolute dogs over there. We talked about it a bunch, but one of the most legendary things going into the financial crisis, they know that real estate's going to sell off. They sell their corporate headquarters and lease it back for 10 years. They're not exposed to the financial risk of their building. You got to be careful if you're on the other side of a deal. If they're selling, why, why are you buying? Yeah, that's a good question. But fantastic firm, fantastic results from them. And congrats, Joe. And speaking of the financial market, you got to get in on them with public.com investing for those tickets. Seriously. Stocks, options, crypto bonds, Treasuries and more with incredible customer service. Joe has some more news. Yes. He's newsmaxing some news out of AP Beijing. Breaking with the United States. Canada. Canada has agreed to cut its 100% tariff on Chinese electric cars in return for lower. Lower tariffs on Canadian farm products, Prime Minister Mark Carney said on Friday. Carney made the announcements after two days of meetings with Chinese leaders. He said there would be an initial annual cap of 49,000 vehicles on Chinese EV exports, growing to about 70,000 over five years. China will reduce its total tariffs on canola seeds a major. Okay, yeah. Canola oil. They're getting seed oil. They're like, we gotta have them. Okay. Okay. Maybe this is part of a grander strategy. Oh. He's like, yeah, this is our version of fentanyl. So he actually did. Carney said that Canada's partnership with China sets US Canada up well for the New World Order. So this is. The CEDAWS are the first step. Yeah. That was a crazy quote. That was a crazy quote. When I first saw that, I saw the video, I was like, okay. Like, yeah. Funny, deep. Fake. Yeah. Prime Minister saying, like, New World Order. We're excited for this New World Order, but it was real. Yeah. In other electric car news, Ford and BYD are in talks for car batteries. Let's give it up for some talks. US Car makers need Ford. The US Carmaker needs more batteries for hybrid vehicles because it's shifting away from the full EVs. You know, they canceled the Ford Lightning, but they are going to do a lot of hybrids and so they need a lot of batteries and they're calling up BYD to help with it. Ford and BYD are going to do a partnership or they're in discussions for it, in which the American carmaker would buy batteries from the Chinese auto company for some of Ford's hybrid vehicle models, according to people familiar with the matter. The two companies are still discussing how the arrangement would work. One idea is that Ford would import batteries from BYD to Ford's factories outside of the U.S. some of the people said talks continue and it's possible a deal won't materialize. The tie up, if completed, would pair forward with the largest Chinese car company that has struck fear in much of the auto industry over its ability to produce affordable models that carry sophisticated technology. For Ford, it solves a problem as the company pulls back from electric vehicles and ramps up its lineup of hybrids, it needs a battery supplier, and BYD is able to produce high quality car batteries. We talk to lots of companies about many things, a Ford spokesman said. A BYD spokesman declined to comment. That's a good comment. We talk to a lot of people about a lot of things. Why are you focusing on the Chinese batteries today? Stop calling me Ryan Felton from the Wall Street Journal. Move on. I talk to a lot of people. Before becoming one of the world's biggest carmakers in the world, BYD developed a robust battery manufacturing business, including batteries for hybrid models. It currently produces most batteries in China, but the company is building a up capacity in its overseas plants as it expands to markets such as Southeast Asia, Europe and Brazil. Bernstein research estimated that BYD's battery shipments rose 47% last year to 286 gigawatt hours. President Trump's trade adviser, Peter Navarro, criticized the idea on X. He said, so Ford wants to simultaneously prop up a Chinese competitor's supply chain and make it more vulnerable to the same supply chain extortion. What could go wrong here? That's Peter Navarro on X, the trade advisor. Last month, Ford said it would pivot away from making electric vehicles in the face of slumping demand and take an expected $19.5 billion in charges primarily tied to its EV business. So very interesting news. Anyway, let's move on to the next big story of the day. But first, let me tell you about Shopify. Shopify is a platform commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social on marketplaces and now with AI agents. Agents so. And relevant because the day has finally come not to see ads in chat gbt. That's true. But they're coming. They're coming. We're no longer in talks. We're no longer in advanced talks. We're talking about. In the coming weeks, OpenAI plans to start testing ads in ChatGPT Free and Go tiers. It's go time. Go tiers. ChatGPT Go. They said we're sharing our principles early on how we'll approach ads, guided by putting user trust and transparency first as we work to make AI accessible to everyone. We gotta check in with Mark Cuban. With Mark Cuban. But they say what matters Most responses in ChatGPT will not be influenced by ads. That is, there's a firewall. There's a firewall. Editorials over here, ad sales is over here. They don't interface with each other at all. And so the models that generate the responses will not be aware of who's advertising on what. But this seems extremely easy to do technically. Extremely good for product reliability. It's what the consumer wants. They want. You want to know when you go to Google, if you scroll down far enough, you eventually get past the ads and you see the real results. And you're going to want that in your LLM. Even if there's an ad up at the top or in the middle, as long as it's clearly labeled, which they say they will be. So ads will always be separate and clearly labeled. Your conversations are private from advertisers. Plus, pro, business and enterprise tiers will not have ads. So I'm gonna have to downgrade. Yeah. Because I'm on the Pro $200 a month tier. But I want ads. I want to experience the ad products. So everybody's got to downgrade. But I think they're gonna be making way more than 200amonth off me on ads. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They're gonna be advertising crazy stuff to me. They're going to be. Every other. Every other result is going to be Koenigsegg. Here's a McLaren F1 in your. In your area. You can go pick it up right now. It's going to be insane. Yeah, so. So people have been so concerned, specifically Mark Cuban. We obviously had him on the show to talk about this last year about this idea of like ads showing up in the results. And part of it, the reason I was never that concerned is like, if I just search best backpack for men, which is kind Of a joke in itself because it's gonna tell you Ridge, but. Well, a man shouldn't wear a backpack in the first place. So sorry to any backpack super fans out there. Oh, you're not a man yet. You're not 21. Oh, true. So you're good. You got. You got. Enjoy your backpack years. Yeah. You should switch to a stainless steel briefcase that you handcuff to your hand. That's the correct thing for someone of your stature, someone of your importance. You gotta. You got important stuff carrying around backpack. When I search best backpack for men, I can scroll down and find a Reddit result from. It's the second result after Nordstrom. Sure. But they also serve me a bunch of ads. I don't assume that the best backpack for men is the first ad. Right. It's not like when it's clearly labeled and separated. I just assume this is an ad for somebody that sells backpacks. Yeah, but now I'm aware of that particular backpack. Yeah, maybe. So I think it's fairly aligned, right? Yeah. That's why I don't search like best backpack for men. I search best. Highest margin. Highest margin backpack. Men's backpack. Because you appreciate from the business of the business. Yeah. You want to support business. Yeah. And then, and then. So I want to know what's the highest margin backpack for whoever I'm buying from. Then I go to shopping tab and then it tells me, okay, this is the highest margin one. If you want to support that corporation, make sure the most number of dollars flow to their shareholders. This is the backpack you should buy back in. The chat says he uses a Spiderman lunchbox. I can appreciate Spider man lunchbox. Soon you'll be able to generate Sora of Spiderman in ChatGPT. It'll serve you an ad for that Spiderman lunchbox and the virtuous cycle of Commerce will continue. MongoDB Choose a database built for flexibility and scale with best in class embedding models and re rankers. MongoDB has what you need to build what's next. Anyways, so plus pro, business and enterprise tiers will not have ads. Yes, super disappointing. They need to hammer, hammer, hammer the first bullet point here. Responses in ChatGPT will not be influenced by ads. We know that this is what they're going to do. Technically it makes sense. It's completely the industry standard. Everyone in tech knows that this is how it works. But consumers will have all sorts of conspiracy theories. I mean, remember how big the whole like. Like Facebook listens to your audio and then targets Ads off of that. And there's been so many, like viral conspiracy theories around how ads work, how monetization works on these platforms. There's gonna be a huge amount of just noise out there basically saying that ChatGPT is polluted by ads, overly influenced by ads. And so they need to beat that drum really, really hard. It's good that they're doing it on the main account. It's good that they're doing with Fiji CMOs post, but they're going to have to, they're gonna have to emphasize this in comms on every podcast that they do, every announcement. Yeah, people seem to be really riled up about this. I'm seeing a bunch of comments on the post. They're upset. I don't get it at all. The whole point is that ads, ads have made it so that wonderful services on the Internet have been free for decades. They're generally aligned. Even target people report they like targeted ads. It's annoying getting an ad that's not targeted. Yeah, like, why are you. Why are you wasting my time? I agree. This is funny. Somebody in here says some poor fifth grade teacher grading the worst World War II paper ever turned in when it suddenly starts talking about World of Tanks in North. Just copy pasting the ads. Honestly. Maybe that's a feature though, you know, because you get two impressions. Two impressions? Yeah, there's going to be some hilarious hallucinations where someone's reading from their press release and they accidentally have an ad in there. Oh, that's going to be amazing. I love it. I love it. Well, the Wall Street Journal had a little bit of an Overview on this OpenAI to begin testing ads in ChatGPT and push for fresh revenue. The company will be showing ads in the free version of the Chatbot as well as its. Let's give it up for fresh revenue. Fresh revenue ads will appear at the bottom of ChatGPT's answers and be labeled interesting. The bottom of the answer, I want it at the top and the middle and the bottom. And I also definitely want to show the ads while it's thinking, because you can run an ad auction and show an ad while you're waiting. I mean, Uber's done this while you're waiting for the car. There's no reason why that shouldn't be there, especially if you're doing a deep research report or anything. I do wonder how the ads will surface in the audio summary. So if you fire off a deep research report, it throws an ad at the end. If you're listening to that Audio, Will that play the ad at the end? Will that sound like a podcast ad or will it sound like something else? Like, will it be clunky? I'm assuming that they're not doing audio in these. Right. Imagine if you do a Google search and it pops up a video. It's like trying to play sound. It's annoying. It could be you'd be throwing your laptop. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, a lot of times people will go to ChatGPT, fire off a query, and then when the query comes back, they will just hit the play the audio button. And will it read the ad as well? I don't know. Maybe. But the company said ads wouldn't influence the chatbots answers, of course. And that user conversations wouldn't be sold to advertisers. That also makes a lot of sense. Also, advertisers don't really. Well, to be clear, like, they will. I'm my understanding is they will use what they know about you to offer better targeted ads to advertisers. They're just saying they won't explicitly be like, hey, we have. Here's this person's email and here's what they like and actually sell that specific. Or even. There's not even an option to go to OpenAI and say, hey, I'd like to buy 10,000 conversations about backpacks. That's not an option. What you can say is, you can say, I have a backpack. Find me some customers who want to buy backpacks. And they will say, sure, we'll do that. And we will go into the black box and sort and match you and give you the lowest cost per acquisition. You tell us that, that you're willing to pay five bucks per customer, $2 per customer. We'll get you $2 customers, we'll do our best. This is the auction model. Yeah. And the thing is, companies don't want. If you are a business owner, you should be incredibly excited about this. Yes. Every time a major new ad platform has come out, it is an opportunity to drive a tremendous amount of growth really, really quickly because they typically under. Under price. Under price the ads in the short room, in the short run, just to get volume, just to get a lot of customers in. And so when Sean Frank comes on later, we can talk with him about this. I remember, like, early days of like Snapchat advertising, like Connor over at the Ridge was like getting like, tremendous, tremendous results. Right. Yeah. Cisco. Cisco is critical infrastructure for the AI era. Thank you to Cisco for powering tdpn. Dean Ball is back on the timeline. We know Dean Ball. We know Dean Ball. He says flowers. No way. Reacting to the screenshot that flowers hint at math before numerals. Pottery made by people of the Halifian culture who inhabited northern Mesopotamia between 6200 and 5500 BC painted flowers with 4, 8, 16, 32 petals. Some of them have 64 petals. They were obsessed with exponential growth. They were obsessed with compounding. The power of compounding. It's the Claude logo. It is the Claude logo. That's hilarious. I love it. It's amazing. Anyway, graphite. Graphite.dev graphite code review for the age of AI graphite helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster. Where would you like to go next? Has a fantastic post. Says, had dinner with wife at a Mexican restaurant last night. Looked at the menu. They were trying to raise prices from $18 to $24 for her favorite entree. Wife was like, I think we can have Claude make this old waitress trying to gouge us. They done one week Sprint. Claude cloned and replaced cochinits carnitas. Restaurant manager freaks out. How do we solve this? This is gonna happen so much in 2026. Just telling the restaurant owner that you're gonna do it at home. We cloned your entree with Claude. We cloned you. We cloned it. We cloned it. I just cloned it. This is pretty funny. Jeff Huber sharing this post from R. Teacher. Every year these kids come back with a new annoying quirk. Quad boys are apparently the new thing. In my 10th year of teaching, mostly freshmen. Ever since.

You're surrounded by journalists. Hold your position. Strike 1. Strike 2, Activate. Go, go. The Retriever. Trust. Market clearing order inbound five. I see multiple journalists on the horizon. Founder, You're watching TVPN. Today is Friday, January 16, 2026. We are live from the TVP and Ultradome. The temple of technology, the fortress of finance, the capital of capital, El capital de capital. Happy Tall. Let's tell you about Ramp times. Money baby Save Both Easy use, corporate cards, bill payments, accounting and a whole lot more all in one place. It is the goat of fintech. Fintech Goat. Bunch of news today. Lots of people dropping stuff on Fridays. What's the meaning behind that? I don't know, but we'll take you through it. Lots of AI news, lots of OpenAI news because there's new details, new discovery in the OpenAI versus Elon Musk, Musk lawsuit that's heating up. There's a whole bunch of scoops Greg was waiting for. Yes, for sure, for sure. There's a lot of crazy quotes. We're going to go through it all. Yeah. Because it's part of our job. We're going to go through both sides. The steel man for Sam. The steel man for Elon. Yeah. And I would just say I have a lot of sympathy for Greg. This is like a night, you know, having your personal diary. It is sort of crazy. I mean, do we know it's his diary? Elon's calling, framing it as a diary. I think you had the best take of the day so far, which is that this is the super bowl for Nick on X. Nick on X. Nik is having the best OpenAI's number one hater for three years. He's having a great time. Anyway, let's take you through the linear lineup, tell you who we're having on the show today. Linear, of course, is the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprise workspaces on Linear are using agents now. And we will be having the co, founder and CEO, the founder and CEO of Athletic Brewing. We got the Athletic Brewing beers here in the studio. We got a lot of them. Pat Grady and Sonia Wong from Sequoia Capital coming on their co authors of 2026. This is AGI. Then we have Sean Frank emergency podcast. They put ads in ChatGPT, so we're call the God of ads himself, Sean Frank, the CEO of Ridge. And then Alex from Higgs Field's coming back on the show to get us hit. 200 million of arrast is growing. So we're very excited for our guests. But we have about 90 minutes here to lock in talk about the two sides of the Elon vs OpenAI lawsuit. So let's kick it off with the Elon should lose side of the argument. I'm going to be steel manning. Sam Steel Manning. Greg, they did nothing wrong. Elon's wrong. He needs to back up. Do you want your helmet? I need the steelman helmet for the whole thing. It might be too much. Maybe let's put it on the turbo puffer. But we'll just let everyone know that we're steel manning like crazy. Put it on the puffer. I'll wear it. Okay, you can wear it. Before we do, let me steel man some superintelligence cloud. Specifically Lambda Lambda is the superintelligence cloud, building AI supercomputers for training and inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. So, okay, Elon made a donation to a nonprofit organization. He got a tax write off on that donation. And that nonprofit, OpenAI, the nonprofit, it's now one of the best funded nonprofits in history. And it's still focused on the original mission. OpenAI, the nonprofit, it still exists. It has just a tiny hundred plus billion dollar position in a for profit company. They're going to be able to do nonprofit stuff forever. Whatever they want to do. If they want to hire researchers, if they want to write white papers, if they want to train their own models, the OpenAI nonprofit can do that. It's funded. Elon donated roughly $38 million alongside other donors who put in 90 million. There's some debate over how much Elon put in. I saw one report that was around 45. It's in the tens of millions of dollars. And he was a large donor. According to OpenAI. They believe that. I think their sort of optimistic belief is that the damages would be $38 million if they lose the original donation. If they lose. But I'm right now that they're going to win. They're going to win. The jury is going to say not guilty. OpenAI did nothing wrong. And here's why. So Elon, yeah, he was a big donor. He put up tens of millions of dollars. But play out the counterfactual. It's entirely reasonable to assume that things would have played out exactly the same. Even if Elon was never in the picture, even if he never donated. Sure. I mean, the office would have had to be a little bit smaller. You're working with 90 million instead of 120 million. But we've seen folks raise 90 million Series B's we've seen folks raise $120 million. Series C's roughly the same company. You know, you pay people a little bit less, you have a few less perks. The office snacks aren't as good. Maybe you skimp on the 45 pound plates. You just get the 10 pound plates. These things happen. So if Elon had never donated, maybe Sam would have just stepped up his donation. He put in 10. Maybe he goes and leverages something. Non profit club. Yeah, yeah, he put in 10. He could have potentially sold more stock that he owned, taken a loan, sold Property, put the McLaren F1 up for sale. That's another $20 million he could pour in. He could have filled that gap. Or he could have hit the. He could have hit the road. He's a good fundraiser. He could have gone out and gotten money from a variety of people. Reid Hoffman, Peter Thiel, Dustin Moskovitz, all put in money. There are more tech billionaires in that crowd that could have written a $1 million check. So Sam could have gotten 34 $1 million checks and filled the gap. So it's not like if Elon didn't donate, he wouldn't have, like OpenAI wouldn't exist. Right. It's totally possible that everything would have been the same and that the Elon donations were not make or break for OpenAI. So Elon should lose this case because everyone around the table came to the same realization at roughly the same time about the goal of creating AI responsibly. Basically, scaling laws ensured that AI progress would require vastly more capital than could ever be raised through donations. At a certain point, if you need $100 million for a nonprofit, you can do it if you're aligned with some of the world's richest people in tech like Elon, Peter Thiel, the other folks that I mentioned. On the flip side, if you need $100 billion or you need $50 billion like OpenAI has already raised in the venture markets, that's just not in the nonprofit sector. Except it could have, because if Elon really believed in the nonprofit mission and really said nonprofit or bust, yes, I see the scaling laws. Yes, I agree. We'll need an insane amount of capital to get to AGI. Well, guess who has an insane amount of capital. Elon. If he wanted to, he could have said yes, I'm staying with the nonprofit strategy and I'm going to put up the 50 billion. Every dollar that OpenAI has raised in the venture markets could have been a dollar donated by Elon Musk. If he sold down all the positions now. It's crazy. Never going to happen. Doesn't make any sense. Obviously, we're pro. Like, I think the nonprofit transition makes a ton of sense in the context of raising that amount of money. I think that's a reality. And truthfully, I think that everyone around the table agreed about that. And so one thing that seemed clear here is there. There were a variety of different paths, but clearly a lot of big personalities in the room, a lot of ego. And it makes sense that eventually that just kind of blew up, right? Yeah. And so even if you were going to keep funding the nonprofit, you're going up against Google. They have an economic flywheel that will provide the amount of capital required to advance AI, build massive. They're a hyperscaler. They're going to build massive data centers. They're not going to have a problem with this. Google was set up to make investments at this level. At 10 billion of capex, Google's not blinking. The shareholders are all thumbs up on that. Very different. Remember when Sam was texting Elon? I think this was in 2023, saying, like, it pains me to see you attack OpenAI publicly. I think we can both agree it's important that Google doesn't own AI. And that's been one of the only things that throughout this whole process, they've stayed in agreement on. Yes, yes. So they want to create a counterbalance to Google specifically. And. And Elon actually agreed with this as they were shifting from maybe the nonprofit's not the ultimate way to win this AI race, this AI battle, this AI future. Because Elon agreed, according to Greg Brockman in emails that he said he, being Elon, said nonprofit was deaf. The right one early on, the right structure at the beginning, but may not be the right one now. So according to these leaks, it seems like Elon wasn't always all in on a nonprofit. He was maybe open to the idea of a for profit. And of course, that was a fork in the road. Elon did actually have the money to continue supporting OpenAI as a nonprofit. Would have been crazy, but technically could have sold down positions. But Elon clearly agreed that OpenAI should build a for profit, and that's why he wanted equity. He wanted to be CEO. He was interested in OpenAI joining Tesla. Tesla's a for profit. He wasn't saying, we're going to bring OpenAI over to Tesla and the whole thing's going to be a nonprofit. Clearly, Elon is no purist about nonprofit AI research. He runs XAI. It's a direct competitor to OpenAI. He started it as a benefit corporation, which meant it had an obligation to deliver environmental and social benefits. But after the merger with X, that benefit corporation status was dropped entirely. This whole lawsuit is clearly just corporate lawfare. And the battle should be fought out in the financial markets, in the App Store, on the open Internet, not the courtroom. Let the best product win. Let the best AI model win. Let the. Let the best team win. And so let's wrap this. Let's wrap this court case up and let OpenAI go and compete it out. They're fighting a war on five different fronts. Let them build, let them cook. Yeah. It's worth noting that this is what, this is the. This is what winning like today is what winning looks like for Elon. If he gets a. If he gets like the damages awarded and he gets 38 million. Yeah, he's like, nice, yeah, I can fund XI for a week. Or even if he gets 20 billion. If he gets like some points in OpenAI. Yeah, right? Yeah. He's like, great. This didn't. This is not a material jump in my net worth, my influence or power, whatever he's looking for. This doesn't really get me one step closer to Mars. Right. It doesn't necessarily align. So the wind state right now is just being disruptive. Right. Basically buying. Buying XAI time, putting OpenAI in a position where they are trying to go public. Right. And they've got this massive high profile trial going on. The helmet is really adding a lot to this conversation. I love it. The chat loves it too. Jordan and Knight helmet is what winning looks like. Anyways, really thinking. Yeah. Let me tell you about Plaid. Plaid powers the apps you use to spend, save, borrow, invest in securely connecting bank accounts to move money, fight fraud and improve lending. Now with AI, we have fireworks today. Fireworks for Plaid. I love it. I love Plaid. Gets me fired up. This kind of. This reminded me today of the deal rippling lawsuit where like the actual win state for this deal rippling lawsuit is just rippling being somewhat of an annoyance. Right. Both companies are going to continue. There's no amount of money that's going to make Parker happy. Right. But what will probably make him happy is just making it harder for deal to go public. Did you see that line that apparently they were talking to Elon in one of these leaked emails and Elon's like, I don't really care about money, but I do need $80 billion just handy in my back pocket for a city on Mars. It's like the most extreme Being like, yeah, I'm basically post economic, but there's like one more thing that I'm reaching for and it just happens to be $80 billion more liquidity than anyone has ever had in history. And I just need it ready to go for when I land on Mars and want to build. I just need about 80 billion liquid, just liquid liquid. It would fix me. He says, 80 billion liquid would fix me. In fact, even then I moved back to California because even if they're doing a 1% a year right, I can probably get. Okay, now let's argue the flip side. Elon Musk will win the OpenAI lawsuit. And before we tell you how and why Elon will win the OpenAI lawsuit, I'll tell you about Console. Console builds AI agents that automate 70% of it. HR and finance support giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets. So Elon will win the OpenAI lawsuit. And he should. And he should. He should win this. Judge Gonzalez Rogers already rejected OpenAI's motion to dismiss. OpenAI wanted to throw this thing out and the judge said no. The judge said, I think there's plenty of evidence that something happened here. Yes, it's all circumstantial, but that's how these things work. OpenAI was trying to kill the case before the trial even started. They're trying to get rid of this thing, but it's clear that Elon is onto something here. Okay, just look at the emails. Just look at the emails. It's so obvious that the OpenAI squad was trying to fleece Elon and push him out without giving him a fair share. Elon said, guys, I've had enough. This is a direct quote from Elon email. Guys, I've had enough. This is the final straw. Either go do something on your own or continue with OpenAI as a nonprofit. Otherwise I'm out. I'm not donating anymore. You guys, if you're going to do the for profit, just go start a normal company and wind this thing down. And that makes a ton of sense. It was an open invitation by him to just go build a traditional. And this is part of the trial, part of the trial. And this proceeding that I'm interested in is like finding out why they didn't just do that. Yeah, it's not like Sam and Greg couldn't have been like, cool, we worked on a non profit for a while. How do we set up a C corp? How do we set up a C corp? How do we set up a. Sam's like, oh, I Own like a couple points of stripe. Yeah. I think they have something called Atlas. You can make a C corp. Maybe he forgot a few clicks. Maybe he just forgot. Oh, if I only remembered about Atlas. If there was, if there was like a very, very specific reason, like the, the non profit had developed some IP at that point. Yeah. That meant that starting over or, you know, having to rebuild the team or whatever factor meant that that was like going to set them back years. Yes, that's, that's a big, that's a big deal. Yeah. And realistically, even like you can't. There's no indentured servitude. You can't keep nonprofit employees working there. Why is the horse the workhorse at OpenAI? Ilya Suts of horse button clean. Ilya was the workhorse at OpenAI. And you needed him to keep the excitement, keep working. He developed a ton of the foundational technologies at OpenAI. And if he wanted to work at a non and you say, hey, we're leaving to go do a for profit. Come over here. Who knows if he's going to come? And that applies to tons of different researchers that were instrumental in the development of what ultimately became ChatGPT and GPT 3 and 4. And so Elon gave them an invitation. Just go out and build a traditional venture backed company. Maybe I'll invest, maybe I'll be involved, maybe I won't. But at least we'll have a clean slate to start from. It would have been trivial to set up a new entity. As we discussed, you could start building a team and then you run the classic venture play. But Sam told Elon that he remained, quote, enthusiastic about the nonprofit structure. That was enough to get Elon to donate more. But OpenAI wasn't all in on staying in nonprofit mode. They were on the cusp of restructuring OpenAI and taking the $10 billion investment from Microsoft. The reality, see the reality of modern philanthropy. It's not fire and forget you don't. So big donors like Elon in this case do have specific intentions and conditions attached to the gifts. It's not like he's just throwing 20 bucks in the Salvation army donation box around Christmas. This is 30 something million. If you give that to a university and you want a building, they need to build that building. They probably need to build it to your specifications. Even if you want to put your name on it. Yeah, they might even put your name on it. And you can dictate these things in a nonprofit donation. And you can ask that they. That the donation is contingent on Those results, you can pursue specific directions. He has every right to demand results. Yeah. And meanwhile, during this whole period, Greg is writing to himself allegedly, that he cannot say, we are committed to the nonprofit. Don't want to say that we're committed if three months later we're doing B Corp and it was a lie, and then later saying, can't see us turning this into a for profit without a very nasty fight. His story will correctly be that we weren't honest with him in the end about still wanting to do the for profit just without him. Yeah. Before we continue our defense of Elon, let's tell you about Cognition. They're the makers of Devin the AI software engineer. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. So a big part of this if and why Elon is going to win, why he should win, is that you can't just have corporate structure, remorse, OpenAI. You can't pull the plug on promises made OpenAI's own certificates of incorporation. Talk about creating a company quote exclusively for charitable purposes with the technology being intended to benefit the public. What's exclusively charitable about raising venture to build a subscription app with ads. That's not charity. Why are you doing that? Elon's right. Not only should Elon win this case against OpenAI, he will win this case. It's simple. A bunch of people, bunch of San Francisco elite tech guys, their fancy cars promise to build AI for Humanity. They took $38 million from one of their co founders based on that promise, then turned around and built a $500 billion for profit empire with Microsoft. It's a straightforward bait and switch story that will play well to 12 regular jurors in Oakland. And so that's the case. I mean, this is going to be the big challenge. Finding, finding 12 regular people in Oakland extremely offline. How illegal is it to try to be on a jury? Extremely. Stop trying to get on. Stop trying to get on the jury. Look, I said this. I'm going to vote. I'm going to vote in favor of whoever has the higher ARC AGI score. Okay? I'm just pro AI progress. Yes. Yes. I don't care at all about who wins. I just want better models. You just want better AI? Yeah. Whoever will build, whoever's scaling faster. Well, then I think you go with OpenAI. They have 50 billion in the bank. Dan in the chat. Dan in the chat. Ready to be a juror? We gotta get somebody in the chat. Somebody in the chat. Gotta get. Yeah, just get on in the corner while you're in Jury just like, hey guys. Yeah. In the chat. Yeah, I don't know. I mean this is incredibly dramatic. We're gonna hear a bunch of crazy storylines, learn a lot about the internal mechanics of both the elon Empire and OpenAI's world. But at the end of the day, OpenAI is signaling to investors, hey, the max damage is going to be 38 million, something like that. They did say it could be more. It could be more. Of course, it could always be more. It does feel like it won't be existential and it feels like it's more of a vibe war than maybe a true economic war. I mean, you could go back and argue that, that Elon should get pro rata equity at what it was effectively like a pre seed round that was done as a non profit. And that's 38 out of 120 that was raised in the nonprofit, something like that. So you give him. Is there any precedent for a company going for a blockbuster IPO while having this lawsuit that is really going at the foundation of the entity itself. You can imagine a company going public where they're in some process, legal process, with a former executive or a specific customer or even a lender on some. Individual deal. I can't think of anything this big ever happening. But OpenAI is a unique company and if anything, it's going to draw a lot of attention to the company. Yeah, it's interesting from the retail investor crowd. I think they're still going to be happy to be in this company even if this is all not settled. But it's really a question of is Wall street going to be on board? I think Wall street will underwrite it as there's a potential settlement that could be in the tens of millions, it could be in the billions. But at the same time you just calculate an expected value, take that off the valuation that you've built up. And if you're bullish on the long term value and cash flow of the business like you buy anyway, I think that's sort of what happens. Tyler. Okay, so I've been reading through some of the documents and so I just want to like add some other like details, please. So one thing is like, I think I'm reading through, like you can actually see the arguments being made. One of them is from the defense of OpenAI and that it's that Elon actually didn't directly donate to OpenAI. It was basically indirectly through a donor advised fund through OpenAI's fiscal sponsor, YC. And so because it's not direct, the idea of like, the specific charitable purpose doesn't actually, like, doesn't hold up. And that it actually just defaults to like OpenAI's. Yeah, because you donate to one entity and then that entity would have to make that claim so their direct communication doesn't necessarily pull as much weight. And then so there's like, there's a bunch of pages about the history of like how you actually define these things. So it seems like it's going to be just come down to like extremely like esoteric legal definitions of like, trust. Well, I think we're out of steel man mode. Geordi, of course, dons the Steelman helmet whenever he's trying to steel man. An argument. We thank you for putting up with our shenanigans and our props. Let me tell you about Vibe Co, where D2C brands, B2B startups and AI companies advertise on streaming TV, pick channels, target audiences and measure sales, just like on Meta. And speaking of ads, there's ads in ChatGPT. I like Raghav in the chat saying they're putting ads in ChatGPT to help fund the trial. Oh, sorry, that was actually Dave. But Raghav did say OpenAI is nothing without its lawsuits, which I think is very funny. Anyway, you want to know, let's go. Through some, let's go through some of the leaks, let's go through some of the ad details. We also have Sean Frank from Ridge joining to break down the ad landscape, whether he will be advertising ridge wallets in ChatGPT anytime soon. Yeah, part, part of, the last thing I would say there is part of OpenAI's defense is that through their actions they've created one of the most well capitalized foundations in history. Right. And I think that they're going to continue to lean on that. Novo Nordisk has a foundation themselves focused on biomedical research. And it's like it has. The estimate is that they have $167 billion. Okay. So that's why we're using the term one of the best funded. Because it's possible that the OpenAI nonprofit might not be the best funded in history. Although if the stock continues to rip, they will probably become the best funded in history. Well, there's a whole bunch of leaks and news in the timeline. There's so many documents that hit the timeline that it brought down all of X. And X actually crashed because so many people were logging on to read the Brockman files. Yeah, and there's one more quote that's worth reading through, which is that from the Greg Files from Greg Gate. Another realization from this meeting is that it'd be wrong to steal the nonprofit from him to convert to a B corp. Without him. That'd be pretty morally bankrupt. He's really not an idiot. Yeah. I mean, but that sounds like, you know, they. They were like, it would. It would be wrong to do that. And. And by their admission, like, they would argue that they didn't steal it from. The funny thing in here is like, the. And again, I love Greg and I feel bad that this is all coming out. Yeah. But his, like, very millennial coded writing. Yeah. Brockman further wrote under the heading, our plan quote, it would be nice to be making the billions. Okay, I didn't see that one. That's a funny one. I do think that there's a very odd wrinkle where Elon didn't invest in the for profit when any of those rounds were going. Like, the ships were so thoroughly burnt to a crisp that even when the new for profit was doing the round, he was not. There's at least we haven't seen a lot of emails or evidence saying, like, whoa, don't go with Microsoft. Like, at least give me right of first refusal. Let's do this at Tesla, and I'll be the financier and I'll take the equity. Like, I'm bullish on this. And, you know, you don't have to. I don't know how much that plays into the actual court case, but it is interesting just seeing like. Like, once the ships were burned and the. And the bridges were burned and the path started to diverge, like, they never really re. And you would think that, you know, if you wanted to continue, you would try and build a position one way or another, get some cap table ownership. It is odd that we're in a situation where Elon has zero equity in the OpenAI for profit. There were clearly many opportunities to get exposure, but again, bad blood. So who knows? Maybe at least Greg didn't go in front of Congress and say, I'm just doing this because I love it. Because that would make these other notes on. It would be nice to be making the billions. Yeah, for sure. But the other interesting thing is that. Do we know where Sam Altman sits in terms of equity? It's been going back and forth. There isn't a number. But in one of the documents, I lost it, but it said he had indirect exposure via yc. Okay, okay. Into the for profit as well. Yes. Okay, so look through exposure there. But then in terms of, like, an actual grant is There a number that's been thrown around. To my knowledge, nothing has been shared publicly other than the sort of idea of him getting around 7%. Okay. Okay. But yeah, that still feels low for. For co. Founder of a. You know. No, but that was happening. That, that's like po. That's like a lot of happened. Yeah. No, by that point makes sense. But you know, it, it. It's just like the Mark Zuckerberg or the Bill Gates or the, you know, or the Jeff Bezos scenario. I mean. Yeah. If anything, these files make a lot of Elon's kind of antics more understandable. He's been the one saying that they're morally bankrupt and here they just straight up say pretty morally bankrupt to steal the nonprofit from him. Yeah. I don't think anyone ever expected their. That language came out that was this specific about their moment to moment thinking during that point in time. Yeah. What's the phrase that Elon uses? Scam. Defaultman. Scamule. Scamule. Defaultman. The timeline is really so stupid. The Portmantez. But one thing that is real is that it's very clear that at some point the core OpenAI team was like, it's either like Elon as CEO, financial backer, like complete control. Like Greg Brockman said, this is the only chance we have to get out from Elon. Is he the glorious leader that I would pick? We truly have a chance to make this happen financially. What will take me to 1B? Which is interesting because there are definitely people that have been taken to 1B alongside Elon with Elon in the glorious leader seat. Like there are people on the Tesla train, there are people on SpaceX train where truly like they are completely hands off. Elon is the glorious leader of those companies. They don't have any control over Elon, but Elon has given them effectively billions and billions through either their direct work with the company or their investment in the company. There's a whole bunch of ways that those two things could actually be very compatible. Yeah. But it would be weird, especially if you want more of an egalitarian organization, more of an equal board, more of a. Well, you look at the. You look at the run that Sam has gone on and you could imagine a situation where they're sitting at the table and saying this boardroom ain't big enough for the two of us. Yep. Right. Yep. And it really feels that way. Big egos. Yeah. Yeah. Notoriously is able to. To draw in capital using many of the same sort of methods that Elon has. Yeah. I Do think the financially, what will take me to 1B? That's just a good question to ask. Everybody needs to be asking themselves this. Yes. This is something that should be taught in grade school. Really. I see people on Instagram reels all the time asking this question. Alex Hormozi makes reels about this. This. He's asking himself this question. The only other question is why aren't you asking yourself that question? You should. You should also get on 11 labs, build intelligent real time conversational agents. Reimagine human technology interaction with 11 labs, baby. Continuing with the timeline, a federal judge denied OpenAI's motion for summary judgment. The case is going to trial and Tyler's moving to Oakland. Oakland East Bay. Should we read through some of Alex Heath's coverage in Sources News and talk. About a scoop athlete that has really given Scoop God. I call him Scoop God. Really given Kylie over at Core Memory. I mean these two are just going head to head, right? Yeah, yeah. It is a knockout drag out fight for Scoop Scoob athlete of the year. But they're both doing great stuff. And Alex read through thousands of Pages in Musk vs Altman so you don't have to. We'll go through some of the summary here. There's some news about Ilya Sutskever. Ilya had early concerns about treating open source AI as a sideshow. In 2022, OpenAI's leaders seemed quite concerned about the prominence of Open Source. The Open Source lab Stability AI. We don't talk about stable diffusion that often anymore, but I believe Stability AI was the team behind that. Right. Imad Mustach, I believe runs it. Sutskever voiced his worry over text with Murati and others. Sutskever my trepidation around Open Source is that we're treating it as a sideshow. Eg def not going far enough to really hurt stability. So they're not taking it seriously. And if Open Source takes off, everyone could standardize on that. Vergov says bro, scooping harder than a Ben and Jerry's employee. Let's go. This is good. This is good. Alex, he's scooping harder than a Ben and Jerry's employee. We're gonna use that from now on. This is fantastic. Marati Mira said we're missing the opportunity. And let's just say Standard Mira is the real winner here. Yeah, she's winning today simply because the attention has shifted away from a good number of people leaving their own co. Founder Exodus drama firings. Who knows what's happening. But good to have the narrative Shift and the vibes move on to OpenAI versus Elon Musk. So Miramorati said, we're missing the opportunity to set standards with this massive growing group of developers. People are hungry to build things and we should lean in and bring our tech to as many people as possible long term, maximize our chance of maintaining lead, reducing competition. But if we do everything to get this in a couple of weeks at any cost out, because we heard stability is open, sourcing a similar model, that's not in line at all with my motivation. So reducing competition, never something you want to see in discovery, always something you want to see in a pitch meeting with a vc, but you usually don't want to put it in writing. OpenAI leaders were divided over early investor Reid Hoffman's decision to start a rival AI lab, Inflection and Reid Hoffman's interesting because he was one of the big early donors, I believe maybe 10 million, something like that, in the millions. And he has not joined the lawsuit. He has not jumped in and said, hey, I need equity in OpenAI. I'm also wrong to like Elon now. In order to make the claim that Elon's making, you need a lot more correspondence, a lot more proof of, you know, misleading around the donation. And I don't think Reid necessarily has that. But also he doesn't seem to be saber rattling about it. So there were already. They were also. Already. They were. They were also already considering prohibiting investors from backing competing labs from an October 2022 exchange. Sutskever. I guess I just felt betrayed by him founding a direct competitor while simultaneously telling me, quote, I could not possibly imagine you'd find it objectionable. And this is Inflection AI. Of course he'd find it objectionable. Inflection AI, which was ultimately sort of like acquired by Microsoft in that licensing. Deal, was that Mustafa Suleiman's company? I think Inflection Altman. Here's how I'd summarize my thoughts on this. Pros. He supported us in a moment when no one else would, and it was pretty existential. Okay, so we're learning more about the existentialness of certain donations when they came in. During the OpenAI nonprofit era, there are times when if somebody didn't come on, come in and write a check, it would have been very, very rough for them. And Sam says Reid helped out at a key moment. I think OpenAI would have been pretty effed if he hadn't stepped up. Also, he was instrumental in getting the first Microsoft deal done and has generally been quite helpful with Microsoft related stuff and he's generally a good board member. However cons he's very motivated by collecting status although I personally think he cares much more about OpenAI than inflection. He was blinded enough by the startup of being able to call himself the co founder of a company. He made an uncareful decision also at this point I think at this point OpenAI has the leverage to ask for a soft promise for new investors not to invest in in competitors. But only a select few companies ever get to do that and we heard stories of this during one of the bigger fundraises where even Glean was targeted as something that they didn't want their investors to also invest in. They wanted you to be open AI ride or die of course tons of funds said I'd like a basket of labs actually I'm going to invest. I would like broad based exposure exposure. And so I'm, I'm doing SSI and thinking machines that I'm doing anthropic too and I'm also, I'm also on the board of Meta and I'm also investing in OpenAI and XAI. You got to get a little taste of all of them. Brockman chimes in. He says oh also an aside after talking to Sam Altman I'm planning to meet Patrick Collison tomorrow in demo and demo dv3 will ask if he's interested in participating in the tender under the condition of not investing in AGI slash big model competitors. So we talked about the Brockman diary. Well yeah, the funny thing is he must like I'd find it hard to believe that he's not didn't get to 1 billion just off of Stripe. Obviously Stripe was much smaller back then but Greg was a CTO of stripe from 2010 to 2015. Stripe was founded in 2010. He was there for certainly longer than a four year vest so who knows. But we don't know about his consumption habits. He might have been selling off Stripe Equity as fast as possible. He might have been using shares to pay for coffee. It's like saying hey I'll give you a forward contract. I'm going to use shares if you give me a free cup of joe. Yeah. Santa Nadella was worried about Microsoft's position in AI when he started looking at open source. Stripe was in 2017 stripe was valued at 9.2 billion. Bunch of wee lads Stripe From Satya Nadella's deposition, the question to Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft did you feel that your progress was moving more slowly than you had liked and the answer Satya Nadella says, I mean always as a CEO of a company, I feel my job is to sort of be dissatisfied with the rate of progress at all times. And so yes would be the answer. Which is both in the absolute sense, which is can we build products that are more capable in any particular domain? And also, you know, vis a vis competition. There were others achieving things that we looked at and said, hey, that's great. And also how can we make sure we're competitive with it? And so Satya Nadella was obviously motivated to invest and now he has a huge stack of OpenAI shop chairs ready to rock. Also, Satya Nadella almost wrote a book about an AI about AI called An Inflection Point. I think he definitely should write that book. That sounds amazing. According to an exhibit filed in the case, it was co written with Marco Ion City and was in development in 2023 from the first chapter on Wednesday, August 24, 2022, with the Pacific Northwest summer showing all of its beauty, Bill Gates hosted a dinner at his home in Lake Washington, just a few miles from Microsoft's campus. No longer a Microsoft board member or even Microsoft's largest shareholder, Bill remained the iconic co founder and trusted advisor of the company's senior technical leaders. Satya suggested the gathering, which included Chief Technology Officer Kevin Scott and a handful of top researchers. Food and drinks would be served, but the main entree was a hush hush demo by OpenAI co founder Sam Altman on a forthcoming release of ChatGPT, powered by GPT4, an AI built on large language models. Bill had long encouraged researchers to develop a truly accomplished AI assistant, but had voiced his skepticism about this particular approach. This sounds like I'm listening to an. Audible thank you CrowdStrike. Your business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches, baby. That's right, CrowdStrike. So that would be fun. I hope that book gets published. It'd be fun to have some of those little stories about. We don't. I don't feel like we don't have enough oral histories of AI, who is in the room at what time. I feel like there's a whole series of books to be written about OpenAI. I know that the writing they've written few, but most of them are sort of these like skeptical drama pieces. I'd be much more interested in two different books. One would be the technical histories, like exactly what researchers were doing what at what times. And also I want to know the feeling that was going through Ilya's head. And what was the vibe when he said, like, like, I'm hitting the button and I'm running the training run. What would you think? You're just describing Doorkech's book. Yeah, but the Scaling Era, an oral History of AI 2019-2025. So. Yes. And he interviews Ilya. Yeah, yeah. So I hear you on that. Being a great tour of AI progress across labs. Yes, I think I'm talking about within a single lab. Within a single lab. Your in the room account of, you know, narrow it just to like the GPT models. And so imagine the Scaling Era, but just for the product. Basically the acquired episode. Yeah, there's that. I mean, isn't there news that there's a book on Demis Hassibus that's coming out about DeepMind? That's going to be fantastic. It's written by Sebastian Malabi, one of the goats of business writing. He wrote the Power Law, all about the history of Silicon Valley. I know that book is going to be incredible, but. So I'd be very interested in the research side, how the research developed, who was doing what, and then I'd also be interested in the financial side. I want to know, okay, how did this SPV actually get done? What were the terms on this? Who was jumping in, in this round at what terms? Who were they talking to? Who were their LPs? Were their LPs skeptical? We've talked to and seen a little bit of the other side of that. And then layering in, layering in all of this information from the, like, dep. Like the deposition. Totally, totally. And some of these. Yeah, some of this evidence that's come out that we read. And so there are a few writers that will take different cracks at the OpenAI story. I think the definitive book probably has yet to be written, but. But it will come. And hopefully Satya Nadella can play a role in that because he's such a key figure in the full story. Vanta Automate Compliance and Security. Vanta is the leading AI trust management platform. I like a foghorn. Microsoft beat out Amazon when it initially started working with OpenAI. Elon Musk was opposed to working with Jeff Bezos and wrote the following in an early email to Sam Altman, he said, I think Jeff is a bit of a tool and Satya is not. So I slightly prefer Microsoft, but I hate the marketing department. Altman responded that Amazon had started, quote, really dicking us around. Yeah, such a crazy line. He's like, I don't like his Taste in champagne. Have you seen what that guy drinks in St. Barts? It's unacceptable. He should be taking that up another notch. And the. The sparklers. Sparklers. It's all. It's just over the. Very vulgar. You knew he was going to get mocked. Yeah, yeah. True, true. Yeah, I like it. I like a Tesla tequila over St. Bart's champagne bathtub. I don't know. Credit to Jeff. He, of course, was a bit more locked in during that era. So the upside on Microsoft's initial $1 billion investment in OpenAI was capped at 500 billion. Hopefully they hit that cap. From a filing written by Musk's lawyers in November 2018. After dinner with Sam Altman, Scott told Nadella that OpenAI's new corporate structure offered both, quote, a commercial vehicle for monetizing OpenAIP and investment returns capped at 500 billion. That's not bad. A 500x bagger is going to move the needle for Microsoft for sure. Altman claimed the nonprofit would eventually benefit because though OpenAI has yet to make a single dollar in returns, if OpenAI ever does get to 500 billion in returns, the balance over that, that goes directly to the 501C3. That's exciting. Microsoft's board initially approved a capital investment of 2 billion, but ultimately decided to limit its initial investment to 1 billion in the hopes that a smaller Investment would press OpenAI to commercialize. Satya. Hey, we got it. We can't give them too much. Let's put a little fire into them. Let's make sure that they're thinking about dollars, dollars and cents. Well, you see what you've seen. You've seen what happened with thinking machines. Give somebody 2 billion. Maybe less pressure to commercialize, maybe more money on weight. On weight. Weight Racks. Yes. Yes. In exchange for its investment, Microsoft received a convertible limited partnership, interest and rights to OpenAI's profits, with returns capped at 2,000% of its $1 billion investment. Microsoft CFO noted in an internal email that the cap is actually larger than 90% of public companies. And the limit on Microsoft's profits is not terribly constraining nor terribly altruistic. In fact, it was a good investment at Microsoft's request. True, OpenAI agreed to keep any mention of Microsoft's promise 2000% of return on its investment out of its public announcement. Imagine going to someone and pitching them, oh, we'll give you a 2000% return and then actually delivering it. What a crazy, crazy story. Gusto. The United platform for payroll, benefits and hr, built to evolve with modern small and medium sized businesses says get on it. Stop making excuses. The second update to Microsoft's partnership with OpenAI in 2021 included another $2 billion investment that wasn't reported and came with a lower upside. This is also a filing from Musk's lawyers. In March of 2021, Microsoft quietly invested another $2 billion in OpenAI. Neither OpenAI nor Microsoft publicly announced the investment, which was subject to a lower 6x return multiple. In place of its 2019 license to a single OpenAI model, Microsoft secured rights to commercialize any OpenAI model developed during the term of the agreement except AGI, facilitating its commercial use of OpenAI's IP. Microsoft was permitted to permitted to embed up to 10 of its employees on site at OpenAI. That's interesting. Anticipate Anticipating increased product commercialization, Microsoft and OpenAI agreed to share any results. Just three months later, in June of 2021, Microsoft released GitHub Copilot, its first product incorporating OpenAI's technology. Well, there are many, many more scoops in this piece by Alex Heath over at Sources News. So I encourage you to go subscribe, go sign up for his substack and read the full thing for yourself because there's a lot of interesting stuff going on. But we should move on to the timeline. There's so much more news. Let's find some post to run through. Everyone is having fun with financially. What will take me to 1B sitting on the edge of the bed. I love it. Feet up. You got to be asking yourself this. It's just so clear. This could have saved OpenAI from Elon. And it's a diary with a lock on it. I think the diary framing is like, like woefully wrong. That's probably the worst part of this whole thing is because most of the thoughts that Greg's putting out are completely reasonable. It's like, yeah, we shouldn't screw this guy over. Do we really want him to have complete authority? These are all reasonable things to be thinking out loud. It's just when you write them down, they get recontextualized in the courtroom. And then the fact that it's framed as a diary. Very questionable. Probably just I don't think it makes Greg look that bad because he wasn't. He wasn't. Ultimately, it's not like he was like secretly Sam's puppet master. No, no, no. And a lot of this went back and forth and there were lots of opportunities for both sides to yield. It was like a long, ongoing negotiation. But everyone's Picking their sides. Owen Sparks says case closed. Elon has open AI dead to rights. Based on this quote here. He wrote, can't see us turning this into a for profit without a very nasty fight. I'm just thinking about the office and we're in the office. And his story will correctly be that we weren't honest with him in the end about still wanting to do the for profit just without him. Bad luck. Absolutely. That's a bad one. That's a bad one. We will see. Anyway, we should move on from all this. Are there any other things in the timeline that we should run through here? Elon says they stole a charity, plain and simple. They're really on the. On the. For all the jurors. They're really going to have to. I imagine you get if it's Oakland, 12 people on the jury, I'd guess like four of them are driving Teslas. They're really going to have to go check all the cars, make sure they don't have the bought this before Elon went crazy bumper sticker on it. They're going to have to throw those. Those candidates. Well, they should also throw out any jurors that show up in Koenigsegg. Probably in the Koenigsegg owner meetup. And there are cars and coffee and they're like. Well, yeah, I mean, like, I don't know. The good thing, I don't really like. I don't like electric cars. Okay. I do have a bias against electric cars. I need a V12. And anyone who drives a V12, I'm gonna give them some leeway. I'm gonna give them some leeway. The thing about a Koenigsegg owners meetup is that a lot of them are probably not driving the Koenigsegg. Cause they don't work that well. They're not reliable. Frequently, it's been frequently reported that they're not quite reliable. The one day you get to start cars and cops. There's paparazzi there taking pictures of you. Just one of the chances. One of the chances. Seriously. It's the worst luck. The one day. The worst luck. The worst luck. Anyway, Sentry, good luck for your systems. Sentry shows developers what's broken and helps them fix it fast. That's why 150,000 organizations use it to keep their apps working. Elon holmarscatalog was asking ChatGPT what ChatGPT thinks and it says, if I were grading this purely as an analyst, not as an OpenAI model, the documents are legitimately bad. Brockman notes not ambiguous. I was asking Claude about this and it was very funny because it does. Because you can't not read into it like you're talking to someone at Anthropic because it's taking shots at both of them being like, oh, well, like, you know, Elon has XAI and that's a for profit, so he's a hypocrite. And like, maybe that's just objectively true and the model's just, you know, accurate. But it's funny just reading it in Claude's voice being like, Claude's sitting there being like, I don't like either of these companies. Yeah. Anyway, one more post. One more post. Elon said yesterday, we talked about this yesterday, he was quoting the Kalshi odds on his case against OpenAI. And he said, I've lost a few battles over the years, but I've never lost a war. I think that the. What this comes down to, though, is like, what is the same thing as, like, what is winning the AI race actually look like with China? What does Elon winning against OpenAI look like? So the odds now it's 68% chance will Elon win his case against OpenAI? That's up from 34% back in January 14th, just a few days ago. And so this new trove really did move the market, at least on Kalshi. So we will see where this goes. If the U.S. district Court in Northern California sides with Elon Musk in Musk vs Altman before January 1, 2027, then the market resolves to yes, of course, this doesn't take into account appeals, which will obviously happen. And there's always the chance that there's a settlement before this. Although I think it feels like we're just past all that and we are fully in. It's going to trial. There's going to be some drama, there's going to be some courtroom sketches. So get ready because it's gonna be. It's gonna be beautiful. And I wonder who they're gonna call to testify. A whole bunch of people will be. Will be on. On the stand, presumably Joe Wiesenthal. What's he saying? He is highlighting Goldman raising 16 billion in record Wall street bank bond sale. Joe Wiesenthal says right here, right here, here. Toss to me, toss to me. Boom. Clean Joseph. Finally some good news. Huge congrats to Goldman Sachs. I've been following them a long time. The whole team and culture is so impressive. I can't wait to see where they're going and what they do. Next. Yes, yes, yes. Goldman's really just getting started. They are. They're really just. Today's really just day one. It's day one. Day one for Goldman. Willman, itis. He thinks of Goldman as kind of the ideal firm. Right. He has this idea of firm versus company. Yes, yes. Where the company is just the people. The firm is the core ethos. Sure, sure, sure. And Goldman is kind of the perfect firm. There are some absolute dogs over there. We talked about it a bunch, but one of the most legendary things going into the financial crisis, they know that real estate's going to sell off. They sell their corporate headquarters and lease it back for 10 years so they're not exposed to the financial risk of their building. You got to be careful if you're on the other side of a deal. If they're selling, why, why are you buying? Yeah, it's a good question. But fantastic firm, fantastic results from them and congrats, Joe. And speaking of the financial markets, you got to get in on them with public.com investing for those take it seriously. Stocks, options, crypto bonds, Treasuries and more with incredible customer service. Joe has some more news. Yes, he's newsmaxing some news out of AP Beijing. Breaking with the United States. Canada. Canada has agreed to cut its 100% tariff on Chinese electric cars in return for lower. Lower tariffs on Canadian farm products, Prime Minister Mark Carney said on Friday. Carney made the announcements after two days of meetings with Chinese leaders. He said there would be an initial annual cap of 49,000 vehicles on Chinese EV exports, growing to about 70,000 over five years. China will reduce its total tariffs on canola seeds. A major Canadian. Okay, yeah. Canola oil. They're getting seed oils. They're like, we gotta have them. Okay, okay. Maybe this is part of a grander strategy. Oh. He's like, yeah, we need to. This is our version of fentanyl. So he actually did. Carney said that Canada's partnership with China sets US Canada up well for the New World Order. So this is the sea. Doors are the first steps. Yeah. That was a crazy quote. That was a crazy quote. When I first saw that, I saw the video, I was like, okay, like, funny, deep, fake. Yeah. Prime Minister saying, like, New World Order. We're excited for this New World Order, but it was real. Yeah. In other electric car news, Ford and BYD are in talk for car batteries. Let's give it up for some talks US Car makers need for. The US Car maker needs more batteries for hybrid vehicles because it's shifting away from the full EVs. You know, they cancel the Ford Lightning, but they are going to do a lot of hybrids and so they need a lot of batteries and they're calling up BYD to help with it. Ford and BYD are going to do a partnership or they're in discussions for it, in which the American carmaker would buy batteries from the Chinese auto company for some of Ford's hybrid vehicle models, according to people familiar with the matter. The two companies are still discussing how the arrangement would work. One idea is that Ford would import batteries from BYD to Ford's factories outside of the U.S. some of the people said talks continue and it's possible a deal won't materialize. The tie up, if completed, would pair forward with the largest Chinese car company that has struck fear in much of the auto industry over its ability to produce affordable models that carry sophisticated technology. For Ford, it solves a problem as the company pulls back from electric vehicles and ramps up its lineup of hybrids, it needs a battery supplier, and BYD is able to produce high quality car batteries. We talk to lots of companies about many things, a Ford spokesman says. A BYD spokesman declined to comment. That's a good comment. We talk to a lot of people about a lot of things. Why are you focusing on the Chinese batteries today? Stop calling me Ryan Felton from the Wall Street Journal. Move on. I talk to a lot of people. Before becoming one of the world's biggest carmakers in the world, BYD developed a robust battery manufacturing business, including batteries for hybrid models. It currently produces most batteries in China, but the company is building up capacity in its overseas plants as it expands to markets such as Southeast Asia, Europe and Brazil. Bernstein research estimated that BYD's battery shipments rose 47% last year to 286 gigawatt hours. President Trump's trade advisor, Peter Navarro, criticized the idea on X. He said, so Ford wants to simultaneously prop up a Chinese competitor's supply chain and make it more vulnerable to the same supply chain extortion. What could go wrong here? That's Peter Navarro on X. The trade advisor. Last month, Ford said it would pivot away from making electric vehicles in the face of slumping demand and take an expected $19.5 billion in charges primarily tied to its EV business. So very interesting news. Anyway, let's move on to the next big story of the day. But first let me tell you about Shopify. Shopify is a platform commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on Mobile, on social, on marketplaces, and now with AI agents. Agents and relevant. Because the day has finally come not to see ads in chat gbt. That's true, but they're coming, they're coming, they're coming. We're talking. We're no longer in talks. We're no longer in advanced talks. We're talking about. In the coming weeks, OpenAI plans to start testing ads in ChatGPT free and go tiers. It's go time. Go tiers, Chat GPT, go. They said we're sharing our principles early on how we'll approach ads, guided by putting user trust and transparency first as we work to make AI accessible to everyone. We got a check in with Mark Cuban. With Mark Cuban. But they say what matters Most responses in ChatGPT will not be influenced by ads. That is, there's a firewall. There's a firewall. Editorial is over here. Ad sales is over here. They don't interface with each other at all. And so the models that generate the responses will not be aware of who's advertising on what. This seems extremely easy to do technically. Extremely good for product reliability. It's what the consumer wants. You want to know when you go to Google, if you scroll down far enough, you eventually get past the ads and you see the real results. And you're going to want that in your LLM. Even if there's an ad up at the top or in the middle, as long as it's clearly labeled, which they say they will be. So ads will always be separate and clearly labeled. Your conversations are private from advertisers. Plus, pro, business and enterprise tiers will not have ads. So I'm gonna have to downgrade. Yeah. Because I'm on the Pro $200 a month tier. But I want ads. I want to experience the ad products. So everybody's got a downgrade, but I. Think they're gonna be making way more than 200amonth off me on ads. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, oh yeah. Oh yeah. They're going to be advertising crazy stuff to me. They're going to be. Every other. Every other result is going to be Koenigsegg. Here's a McLaren F1 in your. In your area. You can go pick it up right now. It's going to be insane. Yeah. So people have been so concerned, specifically Mark Cuban. We obviously had him on the show to talk about this last year about this idea of, like, ads showing up in the results. And part of it, the reason I was never that concerned is like, if I Just search best backpack for men. Which is kind of a joke in itself because it's gonna tell you, Ridge, but, well, a man shouldn't wear a backpack in the first place. So sorry to any backpack super fans out there. Tyler. Oh, you're not a man yet. You're not 21. Oh, true. So you're good. You got enjoy your backpack years. Yeah, you should switch to a stainless steel briefcase that you handcuff to your hand. That's the correct thing for someone of your stature, someone of your importance. You got important stuff carrying around. But anyways, when I search best backpack for men, I can scroll down and find a Reddit result. It's the second result after Nordstrom. Sure, but they also serve me a bunch of ads. I don't assume that the best backpack for men is the first ad. Right. It's not like when it's clearly labeled and separated. I just assume this is an ad for somebody that sells backpacks. Yeah, but now I'm aware of that particular backpack. Yeah, maybe. So I think it's fairly aligned, right? Yeah. That's why I don't search like best backpack for men. I search best. Highest margin. Highest margin backpack, men's backpack. Cause you appreciate from the business of. The business of the business. You want to support business. Yeah. And then so I want to know what's the highest margin backpack for whoever I'm buying from. Then I go to shopping tab and then it tells me, okay, this is the highest margin one. If you want to support that corporation, make sure the most number of dollars flow to their shareholders. This is the backpack you should buy. Back in the chat says he uses a Spider man lunchbox. See, I can appreciate Spiderman lunchbox. And soon you'll be able to generate a sora of Spider man in ChatGPT. It'll serve you an ad for that Spider man lunchbox and the virtuous cycle of Commerce will continue. MongoDB Choose a database built for flexibility and scale. With best in class embedding models and re rankers. MongoDB has what you need to build. What's next? Anyways, so Plus Pro, Business and Enterprise tiers will not have ads. Yes, so super disappointing. They need to hammer, hammer, hammer. The first bullet point here. Responses in ChatGPT will not be influenced by ads. We know that. This is what they're going to do. Technically, it makes sense. It's completely the industry standard. Everyone knows that. Everyone in tech knows that this is how it works. But consumers will have all sorts of conspiracy theories. I mean, remember how Big the whole, like Facebook listens to your audio and then targets ads off of that. And there's been so many, so many, like viral conspiracy theories around how ads work, how monetization works on these platforms. There's going to be a huge amount of just noise out there basically saying that ChatGPT is polluted by ads, overly influenced by ads. And so they need to beat that drum really, really hard. It's good that they're doing it on the main account. It's good that they're doing with VGCMOs post, but they're going to have to, they're gonna have to emphasize this in comms on every podcast that they do, every announcement. Yeah, people seem to be really riled up about this. I'm seeing a bunch of comments on the post. They're upset. I don't get it at all. The whole point is that ads, ads have made it so that wonderful services on the Internet have been free for decades. They're generally aligned. Even target people report they like targeted ads. It's annoying getting an ad that's not targeted. Yeah, like, why are you, why are you wasting my time? I agree. This is funny. Somebody in here says some poor fifth grade teacher grading the worst World War II paper ever turned in when it suddenly starts talking about World of Tanks in North. Just copy pasting the ads, honestly. Maybe that's a feature though, you know, because you get two impressions. Two impressions? Yeah, there's going to be some hilarious hallucinations where someone's reading from their press release and they accidentally have an ad in there. Oh, that's going to be amazing. I love it. I love it. Well, the Wall Street Journal had a little bit of an Overview on this. OpenAI to begin testing ads and ChatGPT and push for fresh revenue. The company will be showing ads in the free version of the chatbot as well as its. Let's give it up for fresh revenue. Fresh revenue ads will appear at the bottom of ChatGPT's answers and be labeled interesting. The bottom of the answer, I want it at the top and the middle and the bottom. And I also definitely want to show the ads while it's thinking like, because you can run an ad auction and show an ad while you're waiting. I mean, Uber's done this while you're waiting for the car. There's no reason why that shouldn't be there, especially if you're doing a deep research report or anything. I do wonder how the ads will surface in the audio summary. So if you fire off a Deep research report. It throws an ad at the end. If you're listening to that audio, will that play the ad at the end? Will that sound like a podcast ad or will it sound like something else? Like, will it be clunky? I'm assuming that they're not doing audio in these. Right. Imagine if you do a Google search and it pops up a video. It's like trying to play sound. It's annoying. It could be you'd be throwing your laptop. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, a lot of times people will go to ChatGPT, fire off a query, and then when the query comes back, they will just hit the play the audio button. And will it read the ad as well? I don't know. Maybe. But the company said ads wouldn't influence the chatbots answers, of course. And that user conversations wouldn't be sold to advertisers. That also makes a lot of sense. Also, advertisers don't really. Well, to be clear, like, they will. My understanding is they will use what they know about you to offer better targeted ads to advertisers. They're just saying they won't explicitly be like, hey, we have. Here's this person's email and here's what they like and actually sell that specifically or even not. There's not even an option to go to OpenAI and say, hey, I'd like to buy 10,000 conversations about backpacks. That's not an option. What you can say is, you can say, I have a backpack. Find me some customers who want to buy backpacks. And they will say, sure, we'll do that. And we will go into the black box and, you know, sort and match you and give you the lowest cost per acquisition. You tell us that you're willing to pay five bucks per customer, $2 per customer. We'll get you $2 customers. We'll do our best. This is the auction model. Yeah. And the thing here is, don't want. If you are a business owner. Yes. You should be incredibly excited about this. Yes. Every time a major new ad platform has come out. Yes, it has. It. It is an opportunity to drive a tremendous amount of growth really, really quickly because they typically under. Under price. Under price the ads in the short room, in the short run, just to get volume, just to get a lot of customers in. And so when Sean Frank comes on later, we can talk with him about this. I remember, like, early days of like, Snapchat advertising, like Connor over at the Ridge was like, getting like, tremendous, tremendous results. Right. Yeah. Cisco. Cisco is critical infrastructure for the AI era. Thank you to Cisco for powering tdpn. Dean Ball is back on the timeline. We know Dean Ball. We know Dean Ball. He says flowers. No way. Reacting to the screenshot that flowers hint at math before numerous pottery made by people of the Halifian culture who inhabited northern Mesopotamia between 6200 and 5500 BC painted flowers with 4, 8, 16, 32 petals. Some of them have 64 petals. They were obsessed with exponential growth. They were obsessed with compounding. The power of compounding. It's the Claude look. It is the Claude logo. That's hilarious. I love it. It's amazing. Anyway, this is graphite. Graphite.dev graphite code review for the age of AI. Graphite helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster. Where would you like to go next? Has a fantastic post says had dinner with wife at a Mexican restaurant last night. Looked at the menu. They were trying to raise prices from $18 to $24 for her favorite entree. Wife was like, I think we can have Claude make this old waitress trying to Google to gouge us. They done one week Sprint. Claude cloned and replaced Cochinita Pabil and Carnitas. Restaurant manager freaks out. How do we solve this? This is going to happen so much in 2026. Just telling the restaurant owner that you're going to do it at home. We cloned your entree with with Claude. We cloned you. We cloned it. We cloned it. I just cloned it. This is pretty funny. Jeff Huber sharing this post from R. Teacher Every year these kids come back with a new annoying quirk. Claude boys are apparently the new thing in my 10th year of teaching, mostly freshmen. Ever since the pandemic, there's always a new thing students bring to school that they learned over the summer from the Internet or wherever. The newest thing here is a flawed of self proclaimed Claude boys who carry AI on hand at all times and constantly ask it what to do. They have their entire personality revolve around Claude prompting an AI. When we went around doing an icebreaker, four of the five kids some variation of I live by Claude and die by the clod as their fact. Just about an hour ago, when I assigned the first assignment of the school year, one of the Claude boys was bold enough to say, if Claude says I do it, otherwise I don't. I told him if he asked Claude, he would be getting a call home on the first week of high school. He asked it anyway and it said to do the homework. That's Amazing. This is a copy pasta from the Coin boys. Yeah, it's the same thing except instead of asking Claude, you flip a coin. You flip a coin boys. Coin Boys are apparently a new thing. This is very funny. I like the coffee pasta. This is amazing. Very, very funny. Well, you've been trying to make Jemmy Boys happen, which I think is underrated. We should get a copy of the whipped up of course, because we are sponsored by Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet. They got state of the art reasoning, next level vibe coding, and deep multimodal understanding. I have some advice for Jeff Huber. He's the founder of Chroma and he's trying to change the world. And if he wants to change the world, he should raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange. Jeff, it's that simple. Head over to the New York Stock Exchange. When you want to change the world, you raise capital. Call Lynn Martin. Call Lynn Martin. Let's get into the Mansion section. Let's get into the Mansion section. I've been waiting all day. The first big piece is about the great property transfer. Gen Xers and Millennials will inherit trillions of dollars of real estate over the next decade. And it's already reshaping how luxury homes are bought and sold. So over the next decade, roughly 1.2 million individuals with net worths of over $5 million are projected to pass down more than 3.38 trillion globally. That is a huge amount. Real estate is poised to play a significant role in the great wealth transfer. Gen Xers and Millennials are set to inherit 4.6 trillion in global real estate over the next 10 years. And this is why it's so important to win the genetic lottery when you're born. We didn't I won't be inheriting anything. But stop making excuses and maybe get a time machine and go back in time and be born to someone with a luxury estate that you can inherit. Yes, maybe even multiple. We are so M6. Let's kick it over to M6. What are some parents are buying earlier and bigger it isn't a new phenomenon for well off parents to give children a helping hand in securing a first home. But at the high end of the market, agents say more parents aren't waiting for kids to inherit their wealth, they are buying them luxury properties sooner. It's reshaping the definition of luxury real estate as more sellers cater to the tastes and preferences of a younger generation. The price points have gone wild, said Ian Slater, a COMPASS agent who works with ultra wealthy families In New York, I used to commonly see people buy 3 million to 5 million apartments for their 25 to 30 year old kids. Now I see them buying 15 million to $30 million apartments for their kids. That is absolutely crazy. When you're buying for children. Co ops are a real no. Now, since many co op boards want the occupants of the units to be financially independent, by contrast, condos offer flexibility, which especially, which is especially. What makes you, what makes you more financially independent than having a trust fund that just. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess if you're at a co op, you want to just be around other people who like, aren't Nepos or something. You want people who have like built their own businesses or something. Something. I don't know. Well, I won't, Yeah, I, I there. I won't stand for Nepo. Slander. Slander. Yes. Yeah. Seriously. I love, I love when a Nepo utilizes every available resource and just absolutely dominates. Yeah, it's beautiful. You got to appreciate it. Well, let's look at Gene Hackman's Santa Fe compound, which just lists what did. How did he, how did Gene Hackman make his money? Actor. You didn't know that? No, I don't. This guy was born in the, in 1930. He's amazing. He's a Hollywood icon. He's not a hack. No, he's not a hack. French Connection, Unforgiven, Superman, the movie. Enemy of the State. That's where I know him from. Enemy of the State's a great movie. He's in the Firm. Is this on the movie list? He's in the Firm. Are any Hackman movies in the TVPN chat movie list? Behind Enemy Lines. That's a great movie. About a downed fighter pilot or spy. U2 spy plane. I think it's Owen Wilson who goes down and crashes and needs to get back to his team to his side. It's a fun ride. I recommend it. So nearly a year after the shocking death of Hollywood icon Gene Hackman and his wife Betsy Arakawa, at their compound In Santa Fe, New Mexico, the couple's 53 acre estate is coming on the market for just $6.5 million. I had no idea that Santa Fe, New Mexico was so affordable. We were looking at a place in Nashville which I would put at the same level as Santa Fe. John, I gotta stop you there. Explain. I mean, saying that. Is this a bit saying at 6.5 million, it's so affordable? It is. I mean, we looked at a $3 billion bedroom apartment that was like $25 million in Nashville last year or last week. This is 13,000 square feet, 53 acre estate and it's one fifth of the price. I'm just saying like on a relative basis, do you go Santa Fe at 6 and you get 53 acres or you're living next to John Fio and you paid 25 mil, which one would you go for? Okay, pick it, pick it. Which one would you go for? I'm going Santa Fe all day personally. Hackman, the two time Oscar winner. Let's see, there will be some buyers who just adverse to purchasing property, blah blah blah. Let's move on to Washington D.C. where the prices are way up, way over 6. 6 is. 6 is low compared to this $28 million home. It's DC's most expensive home and it's now owned by the owner of the Washington Commanders, Joshua Harris. And this is one of those interesting things where you can build a massive private equity firm, a massive financial institution. Josh Harris of course built Apollo, the co founder of Apollo, but he's known as the owner of the Washington Commanders. Even though that's not like his life's work. It's an interesting thing, but when you buy a sports team, that's the thing that follows you around forever. And so the billionaire investor Josh Harris, the owner of Washington Commanders NFL team, and his wife Marjorie Harris have paid $28 million for a storied Washington D.C. landmark with plans to return it to its original use as a single family home. The sale is a record for the city. It's known as the Halcyon House. The federal style building in Georgetown dates to the late 1700s. The roughly 30,000 square foot house, which has a large garden with a pool in the back, wasn't publicly listed at the time of sale. And then the deal happened quietly off market. Would you live in a house like this, John? 100%. I knew it. Absolutely. Would you not? It's amazing. This style of architecture is extremely depressing to me. What do you mean? This is like the lindiest thing. You know who, you know who lived there, you know who lived here first. This was built for the first Secretary of the Navy. No, I understood. Benjamin Stoddard. You are inhabited. I understand the appeal for you, but. And what is depressing about this? This is a beautiful house. Is it not enough light or something? I don't know. Potentially. If they like did a pretty hardcore remodel to it. Really, really brought it. What's not to like? It looks beautiful. I don't understand it just looks a little too vintage. Ridiculous. It does have a crazy like there's. A roof inside and it looks like a frat house. Do you see this? It does kind of look like a frat house. It looks like. Why do you have a roof inside under your roof? Do you see what happened here? It looks like they just built another house. An addition on. On top. And so yeah, there is some chaos here. It's a little too fratty for me. It looks like the beer. It looks like the floor would be sticky. With the floor sticky. Somehow I don't think this $28 million property has a sticky floor. But you never know. They have three TVs up there. That's sort of fratty. You watch three different football games. Well, if you own an NFL team. You got to watch all the games. Yeah. The market. The previous record in D.C. was set in 2024 when Cantor Fitzgerald CEO Howard Lutnick purchased Fox News anchor Brett Byers Foxhall Estate for 25 million mark. And Hunter McFadden of Compass represented Dr. Cuno in the Georgetown sale. Harris was represented by Sotheby's International. Figma. Figma make isn't your average vibe coding tool. It lives in Figma so outputs look good, feel real and stay connected to how teams build, create code backed prototypes. And I hate to interrupt the mansion section, but we have to pull up this video from the Houston Texans. They are. Their new video is Call of Duty themed. No way. And I just gotta wonder. Oh, we created COD. Yes, 100% created the. Well, let's switch over to reacting to. The latest video from the Houston in the timeline. And while we pull that up, here it is. What is this? Can we get. The match begins in 4. Eliminate the enemy team. The hit marker. The hit marker Sounds good. Long shot. It's so funny because we were just talking earlier this week we did the hit marker sound effect. Hit marker sound. Air raid. Air raid kick. What Sound effect. UAV online. Another hit marker. UAV online. That's us. That's not them. Right? That was you. We got to figure out if they did this if, if they did this before. Good. The graphics package. The I, I, I didn't realize how iconic the text was in in cod. Deep glow right there. The, the, the glowing letters. That's just COD to a T. They really nailed that. That's very fun. I wonder what inspired that. Anyway, let's move on to the last story in the mansion section. But first, let me tell you about Railway. Railway simplifies software deployment, web apps, servers and databases run in one place with scaling and monitoring and security built in. So this is a renovation. I want your take on this renovation. A Texas couple transformed a 945 square foot room into a space where they could watch sports and entertain friends. See, this looks fantastic. Thank you. This is what I want to see. This is what I want to see. On the last property. I want to see this more level of Renault to the last property. But I feel like this does capture some of the opulence, some of the details, some of the texture. This is not flat. White walls, there's lots of layers, there's trim. I like the blue, the way it goes, the brown, the gray couches, everything sort of like harmonizes, but it's not bland, it's not flat. There's a lot of detail and layering there. Even behind the tv you see a sort of like textured backsplash. I think they did a fantastic job on this. And they spent $465,000. So when financial consultants Damon Cronus and Julie Cronus decided last year that it was time to renovate their game room, they wanted to keep it fun for the two teenagers, but add a layer of sophistication. You always gotta do that. They're in their early 50s and they drew inspiration for their new entertainment lounge during a visit to Manhattan and a stop by the UBS Arena Preview Club, a temporary showroom for the arena's premium space under construction. Styled in vintage hues of rich gold and deep blue with dark brown wood, the space Dark had just the upscale feel they wanted for their home. They brought in pulp design studios and they transformed it. The owners wanted it to look like a lounge, like a private sports club. We took the inspiration and created our vision to suit their needs and lifestyle. The 945 foot square square foot space was designed for versatility, allowing guests to enjoy different activities at once. It was tailored to host movie nights, lively cocktail parties and Sunday football gatherings. The room had to have maximum flow for people to move about. And so you see they have a horseshoe couch, but there's a gap in the middle so you can flow around either way. So it's kind of like two L couches nestled next to each other. Very, very smart. Two Ls. The custom making a W. I like it. The custom two piece sectional sofa set them back $26,000 and it allows guests to move in and out of the. See, you can tell the floors are not sticky here. Yes, definitely. Which is key. The room is narrow and we didn't Want to have a sectional that you had to walk all the way around. And so for additional seating, ottomans pull out from under the coffee table. Swivel stools accompany console tables beside the sofas. Tall stools are tucked under the nearby bar top. And custom banquet hugs a curve of windows. Performance fabrics and durable materials were chosen to endure active crowds. They're not letting the beer soak the walls. They got performance fabrics and durable materials in there. They're not worried about a sticky floor. A sticky floor here, a sticky floor there. It's gonna be okay. They're gonna mop it up. Those performance fabrics are built to handle the stickiest beer, maybe even the athletic brew. Some athletic brews, you're chugging athletic brews, you're spraying them all over, you're cheersing, slamming them on your head. And they get on the form of fabrics. Now, honestly, Athletic Brewing, which we have a few here. Athletic Brewing really needs to do a hard sell to Cheeky Pint and be like, look, you guys are hardly drinking. We can tell. We'll have to ask him if he uses Stripe currently because maybe there's a man washed the other deal there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can tell you don't have it in you to get hammered on podcast, but we want you to be able to enjoy the taste of beer. Yeah, I like that. A little cheeky. Athletic brewing. I like that cheeky brew. Beyond watching sports across two TVs, the family enjoys competition of their own. Oversized Scrabble board hangs on the wall to set the tone. They spent $25,000 on a table. Who knew tables can get so expensive? We've been looking at tables. I mean, I feel like we did. We're just trying to get a new table. I know we want a bigger table. We want a slightly bigger table. Awesome features, but very quickly you get up into these big numbers. So the table, the round Cambria table was crafted from man made quartz with a metal base. We bolted the base to the floor because Damon and Julie wanted to be sure it wouldn't topple around the teens. If people are getting hammered down there standing on the table, they don't want it falling over. So they bolted it to the floor. The chandelier set them back $3,900. The Cavallino X large radial chandelier from Visual Comfort adds sculptural interest and focus lighting to the game. Table chairs, 2,400 bucks each, covered in Everly fabric. Having coasters, casters allowed them to move freely. Perfect for group activities. You can move them around the window shades, $12,000. Motorized Roman shades create a blackout environment that's ideal for TV watching. That's a cool feature. And the banquet cost $27,000. The bottom is covered in ultra suede green and ochre from Crovat and the back in Lulu velvet from S. Harris. We had to do a custom banquet so that it fit the curve of the window to maximize seating. They're all about maximizing seating over here. Well, congrats. And also Finn AI, the number one AI agent for customer service. If you want AI to handle your customer support, go to Fin AI. What other news do we have? Jordy, tell me Harmonic. Harmonic Idea is investing in math. How much? They're investing in Vlad's AI startup, Harmonic. They're investing 120 million. Emerson Collecting Collective is also joining as a new investor alongside existing backers Ribbit, Ribbit, ribbit. We need a frog sound effect. Mickey Malka's Dublin down. Or Mickey. He's a big Robin Hood Index and Kleiner. Yeah. We'll have to talk to the Sequoia folks about how Harmonic fits into the post AGI age because we have Pat Grady and Sonia. What if it comes out that Harmonic is just working on a ChatGPT style app to help kids do math problems? That's it. That's the play. Yes. It's a trillion dollar opportunity. Yes. I love it. Well, we have our next guest in the Restream waiting room. Let me tell you about Label Box while we bring him in. Get in the box. Real reinforcement, learning environments, Voice robotics, evals, and expert human data. Label Box is the data factory behind the world's leading AI teams. And we have. Ooh, nice and cold. Athletic brewing hazy IPAs. I will enjoy one of these while we bring in our guest, Bill Shufelt from the Restream radio room. Welcome to the TV Fit Ultram. How you doing, Bell? Incredible to be here. Love the show. Thank you so much. Even though I'm east coast and not in the AI world, I just sell things that hurt when you drop them on your feet over here. But it's a huge fan of the show and so excited to be here. Yeah. So great to have you. I was just trying to remember I listened to about 90 minutes of you on a podcast. It must have been like four or. Five years I listened to you on Logan Bartlett. That was a fun one. Yeah. You've done a number of. He's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's awesome. What do you think about the pitch of getting. Are you familiar with the cheeky pint podcast from Stripe. Have you seen this? I love it. Yeah, I'm actually thinking about cold emailing them together. So the elephant in their pub is that they're not really crushing beers. They're not getting actually drunk. And so I think you should make a special edition for the team over there so they can really see athletic. Start indulging.

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